UPC False Advertising

hojphotography

Should UPC be reported for FALSELY advertising "unlimited" downloads when there is a clear limit of 500gb a month. I know people will say 500 is a lot but it is still a "limit", and especially if you want to get serious into netflix etc. It is really bugging me now especially with the constant advertising from them, that they have this big massive claim on their bullet point list. Its a total LIE!!

JustAddWater

It's a "fair usage policy" which is how they get around it

To be fair, all ISPs have one not just UPC. Doesn't make it any better but don't single UPC out

jamie72

It is wrong, but all the companies do this. Unlimited at 500gb is very good. Vodafone once said that 500mb was unlimited on the 30 euro top up offer to catch people out.

Outkast_IRE

hojphotography wrote: »

Should UPC be reported for FALSELY advertising "unlimited" downloads when there is a clear limit of 500gb a month. I know people will say 500 is a lot but it is still a "limit", and especially if you want to get serious into netflix etc. It is really bugging me now especially with the constant advertising from them, that they have this big massive claim on their bullet point list. Its a total LIE!!

to be fair, 500gb for a home user is very generous and would never be reached by 99% of users.

If you hit that limit you must be a business user with multiple computers always on the go or you are doing something potentially which you should be paying more for anyway such as hosting large files etc.

They need a way to stop a few people taking the piss and this is how they do it . Nothing wrong with this in my opinion .

hojphotography

Have people here been able to watch a lot of films with this limit?

NIMAN

afaik a film would be around 700mb - 4gb depnding on quality of picture, so you should be able to watch between 700 and 125 films with a 500gb montly limit.

I'd say thats more than enough for most normal people.

Sponge Bob

The ASAI 'definition' is whatever consitutes unlimited for 90% of users and 500Gb will fit that for now. Of course Netflix data would confirm that one way or another.

Peregrine

Every ISP has this, it's called "fair usage policy" a measure put in place to make sure you're not hogging everyone's bandwidth. 500GB is extremely generous for a fair usage policy, it's actually twice as much as eircom's 250GB cap on their "unlimited" broadband.

Up until about a year ago, UPC used to advertise their broaband as having a "500GB Limit" when eircom and every other provider advertised as "Unlimited" but actually had a 250GB or less cap but you can imagine how difficult it was to explain to Average Joe that 500GB limit was better than 250 "unlimited".

-=al=-

Almost every single advertisement that is unlimited is not

500Gb is a massive amount of data and UPC probably offer one of the best BB packages in this lovely country... provided you can get it that is

dub45

The word |"unlimited" has a specific meaning in the English language and this is "without limit" - plain and simple. Any isp advertising an unlimited product is lying plain and simple. The fact that they all do it doesn't make it right.

The asai have no authority to redefine the English language. In fact the ASAI policy makes it ok to deceive 10% of your customers.

A so called fair usage policy is a limit - fact!

All isps should be required to state clearly as part of the product details together with price and speed what the actual figure is that a customer is paying for

Also Comreg have a policy on this which does not appear to be honoured or enforced.


http://www.askcomreg.ie/internet/unlimited_broadband____fair_use_policy.391.LE.asp

Information about Fair Usage
A number of telephone and broadband packages being offered are described as ‘unlimited’. In this context the word ‘unlimited’ would normally be taken to mean that a subscriber, having agreed to pay a set price, may make as many calls or spend as much time online as he or she wishes. However, some service contracts qualify the meaning of ‘unlimited’ by stating that it is subject to an ‘acceptable’ or ‘fair’ level of use by the subscriber. This is referred to as a “fair usage policy” in some advertising.

ComReg would like to advise consumers that any provision of a contract which sets usage thresholds, or describes what constitutes ‘fair’ or ‘acceptable’ use, should be clear and unambiguous, particularly where the service is described as being ‘unlimited’.

Usage thresholds or limits should be clearly set out, as should the manner in which they may be updated or amended.

ComReg expects each service provider to implement a clear, transparent and policy for dealing with customer usage above any set thresholds. The policy should set out the rules for contract termination, including penalties, the charges that shall apply for any use above the threshold/limit, and the policy regarding migration of the customer to other packages, if applicable.

dub45

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

to be fair, 500gb for a home user is very generous and would never be reached by 99% of users.

If you hit that limit you must be a business user with multiple computers always on the go or you are doing something potentially which you should be paying more for anyway such as hosting large files etc.

They need a way to stop a few people taking the piss and this is how they do it . Nothing wrong with this in my opinion .

If they need a way "to stop people taking the piss" then state the limit up front that people are actually paying for!

Many isps use the term "unlimited" without any qualification at all.

dub45

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Every ISP has this, it's called "fair usage policy" a measure put in place to make sure you're not hogging everyone's bandwidth. 500GB is extremely generous for a fair usage policy, it's actually twice as much as eircom's 250GB cap on their "unlimited" broadband.

Up until about a year ago, UPC used to advertise their broaband as having a "500GB Limit" when eircom and every other provider advertised as "Unlimited" but actually had a 250GB or less cap but you can imagine how difficult it was to explain to Average Joe that 500GB limit was better than 250 "unlimited".

If you check back you will find that UPC's brief flirtation with stating their caps was a departure from their long established practise of claiming unlimited allowance and for a long time UPC would not even state what the actual so called fair usage amount was! Just do a search on boards and you will see it was quite regular here for people to be guessing as to what the allowance was.

hfallada

My dad has a house and they said that the Internet was so slow and I phoned up to UPC to see what the problem was. They said the house had hit the limit. In fairness they're was like 5 non nationals which tend to use the computer as if is a tv as they don't watch Irish tv( I don't blame them).

But they said the policy is to stop 1-2% of households which are extremely heavy users slowing down the network for the 99%. Like if get 500 worth of streaming Netflix in a month you seriously need to reevaluate your life

dub45

hfallada wrote: »

My dad has a house and they said that the Internet was so slow and I phoned up to UPC to see what the problem was. They said the house had hit the limit. In fairness they're was like 5 non nationals which tend to use the computer as if is a tv as they don't watch Irish tv( I don't blame them).

But they said the policy is to stop 1-2% of households which are extremely heavy users slowing down the network for the 99%. Like if get 500 worth of streaming Netflix in a month you seriously need to reevaluate your life

I don't think it is up to any of us here to be evaluating other peoples' lives?

Sponge Bob

Yeah but Comreg defer to the ASAI Dub45 and have no opinion as to what the ASAI should do. We are talking about what is advertised.

Upc 500Gb and eircom ( NGB customers) with 250gb is not the problem, the mobile networks ( and imagine) with their unlimited 10Gb packages are the problem.

The advertised meaning should be set off a 90th percentile of high end packages not a 90th percentile of some midband dross.

If you want to go into lingusitic precision then what was eircom doing advertising NGB in 2010-12?, it is a 2005 era standard at best and a 2001 era standard for many.

dub45

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yeah but Comreg defer to the ASAI Dub45 and have no opinion as to what the ASAI should do. We are talking about what is advertised.

Upc 500Gb and eircom ( NGB customers) with 250gb is not the problem, the mobile networks ( and imagine) with their unlimited 10Gb packages are the problem.

The advertised meaning should be set off a 90th percentile of high end packages not a 90th percentile of some midband dross.

If you want to go into lingusitic precision then what was eircom doing advertising NGB in 2010-12?, it is a 2005 era standard at best and a 2001 era standard for many.

It is not about lingusitic precision - there is absolutely no doubt about the meaning of the word "unlimited" except to isps!

Noone is forcing any company to use the term "Unlimited" it is their own choice to use that term and deliberately deceive.

We shouldn't be condoning dishonesty of the part of companies on boards.

And as I have pointed out many times the fact that they are all at it is not a justification for any of them - we should be appalled that they are all at it not using that as a justification for their behaviour.

Any company with a fair usage policy that advertises it as "unlimited" is lying to its customers and its potential customers.

hojphotography

"We are talking about what is advertised. " Thats exactly my point! Besides its not just netflix its every single thing that you do online (even a little biddy post to a message board counts towards your usage) and as i would be uploading a lot of high res photos to my website that going to eat into it as well.

dub45

hojphotography wrote: »

"We are talking about what is advertised. " Thats exactly my point! Besides its not just netflix its every single thing that you do online (even a little biddy post to a message board counts towards your usage) and as i would be uploading a lot of high res photos to my website that going to eat into it as well.

And remember that is not just "advertised" its in your terms and conditions too!

dead_tree

If Netflix/streaming in HD was your main source of entertainment and used for several hours a day and much more at the weekends in your home, would you hit the 500gb allowance with UPC? I know you can lower the quality of Netflix but forget that.... just wondering as I am thinking of switching. Currently with "unlimited" dsl broadband and have never had issues with breaking limits or extra charges.

Only reason I'd swtich to UPC is for faster downloads as my Netflix sometimes drops to low quality for no reason and then back up to HD.

Do UPC charge much if you break the limit? Has anyone experienced this due to streaming netflix etc?

ED E

You wont go over with netflix unless you are on the dole and watch it all day. Average usage wont push it over.

Thor

ED E wrote: »

You wont go over with netflix unless you are on the dole and watch it all day. Average usage wont push it over.

Not even remotely true.

Typical house of 3-4 people using netflix as their main source of entertainment would break the upc limit no problem.

Take this little calculation for example on the ignorance of UPC.

3 x 50Mb connections would have a total download limit of 1.5TB
1 x 150Mb connection has the limit of 500GB

Both have the same speed at the end of the day. So where is the logic their?

but guess what!! that isn't the issue here.

The issue is that they clearly advertise it as unlimited but in fact have a limit(a low one) and while other ISP's do it, that is no excuse. UPC could easily advertise the proper limits and then there wouldn't be an issue as everyone would be paying for what is advertised, but they aren't doing that.

They are advertising unlimited and the hiding the real limit in the terms and conditions. I was once told by UPC that I broke my limit and I told him that it was advertised as unlimited, he said that an AUP applied and it was actually 500GB. Now I knew this but it's listening to someone actively try to ignore the meaning of the word unlimited is down right hilarious.

I can't stand UPC for the fact they do this, but the blame should really be put on Comreg for allowing this nonsense. I mean it's not like they can play it off as they didn't know about it even though it's their jobs to do so, they are piratically allowing it.

I think it's ridiculous that any government would allow a company to completely contradict their advertised products in their terms and conditions and while other company's tend to this, never have I seen it done so blatantly and with complete disregard to the meaning of unlimited

hojphotography

These posts should really be forwarded onto Comreg!! UPC should only be allowed to advertise it something like
Unlimited*
















*500GB monthly limt

Peregrine

What I don't understand is why you're singling out UPC when they have by far the most generous cap in Ireland.

Owen_S

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

What I don't understand is why you're singling out UPC when they have by far the most generous cap in Ireland.

You wouldn't have a hope of exceeding a cap with another ISO as their speeds are pathetic and embarrassing.

Peregrine

Owen_S wrote: »

You wouldn't have a hope of exceeding a cap with another ISO as their speeds are pathetic and embarrassing.

Haha but streaming Netflix videos will be more or less the same on 24Mb "NGB", those users can go over 250GB no problem

dub45

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

What I don't understand is why you're singling out UPC when they have by far the most generous cap in Ireland.

The size of the cap is irrelevant in this case UPC like other isps are deliberately deceiving both existing and potential customers.

Let UPC and the others state their caps and be honest in the products they are selling.

It is quite incredible that we should actually have to ask companies to be honest!!

Piliger

hojphotography wrote: »

Should UPC be reported for FALSELY advertising "unlimited" downloads when there is a clear limit of 500gb a month. I know people will say 500 is a lot but it is still a "limit", and especially if you want to get serious into netflix etc. It is really bugging me now especially with the constant advertising from them, that they have this big massive claim on their bullet point list. Its a total LIE!!

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys. What I CARE about it is getting proper speeds and Pings - and for the last few evenings they have been down to 300Ms and 1.2Mb !

-=al=-

3's all you can eat data is 15Gb a month, so There's one to complain about

Even though UPC's fair usage policy is not paraded around, I think most on this forum already knew that... and as for BB services... UPC is probably the top BB provider in the country

I've 50Gb a month and barely reach it and there is streams a few times a week and multiple devices connected almost 24/7, For almost everyone the 500GB cap is perfectly fine and it's to stop people going absolutely mental with it... most of the users won't even reach near it

If there's ISP's to complain about doing this UPC would be very low on the list for me

Thor

-=al=- wrote: »

3's all you can eat data is 15Gb a month, so There's one to complain about

Even though UPC's fair usage policy is not paraded around, I think most on this forum already knew that... and as for BB services... UPC is probably the top BB provider in the country

I've 50Gb a month and barely reach it and there is streams a few times a week and multiple devices connected almost 24/7, For almost everyone the 500GB cap is perfectly fine and it's to stop people going absolutely mental with it... most of the users won't even reach near it

If there's ISP's to complain about doing this UPC would be very low on the list for me

First off, Three's unlimited connection is actually 2TB a month.

Second, it's not your place to state how other people download and how much, but if you want to then let's look at the facts.

• Countless people are getting letters for going over the limit. Which holds up that the internet is getting bigger and so is the content on it. So 500GB is not big enough and a lot of people would agree.
  
• There is no way to actually check your bandwidth, so trying to keep on eye on usage with multiple devices in the house is nearly impossible unless you have a specific router and the know how to set it up.
  
• 3 x 50Mb connections would give the same speed as 1 x 150Mb user yet gives you a total download limit of 1.5TB.
  
• If a person was to use their 150Mb constantly for one month(assuming they had the storage space). They could download well over 30TB's of data.

AGAIN... I find myself and others having to point out that this isn't about the limit!! Although for me I think a 500GB limit on 150Mb line is ridiculous in this day and age!

The problem is that UPC advertise it as unlimited but it's not and that is a FACT and stop bringing up other ISP's that do it. That is not an excuse.

If one company overcharged you by mistake for months on end, that doesn't make it okay for another to do so and I can't believe that it even considered and excuse.

If UPC advertised the 500GB limit and not that it's unlimited, we wouldn't have a problem. Although I do think they should be providing us with a way to check our limits ourselves and not have to email AUP@upc.ie everytime to get an update.

UPC are the top broadband provider in Ireland and don't have much competition. The fact they have the most customers should be a point towards why they are being singled out more. They are in fact taking advantage the most and without any real competition it's hard for customers to do much about it and everyone knows our government are to lazy to actually do their jobs.

Piliger

I have no interest in making a mountain out of a semantec molehill imho - anyone who exceeds 500Gb deserves to get cut off.

Thor

Piliger wrote: »

I have no interest in making a mountain out of a semantec molehill imho - anyone who exceeds 500Gb deserves to get cut off.

What about 3-4 people like in the average household? 500GB enough for them. Don't answer that as again, the limit isn't the real problem. It's the fact it's false advertising and no way to actually check allowance yourself.

Amirani

Piliger wrote: »

I have no interest in making a mountain out of a semantec molehill imho - anyone who exceeds 500Gb deserves to get cut off.

Any suggestions on how to make our lives as wonderful as yours?

dub45

Piliger wrote: »

I have no interest in making a mountain out of a semantec molehill imho - anyone who exceeds 500Gb deserves to get cut off.

So you don't care about the meaning of words? So you would have no objection if an ISP suddenly decided that monthly actually meant weekly and your bill quadrupled? And when you rang complain you we're told you are being semantic? Or someone giving you directions tells you to turn right instead of left and sends you miles out of your way because they don't care about the meaning of a word?

dub45

Thor wrote: »

First off, Three's unlimited connection is actually 2TB a month.

...........

http://shop.three.ie/terms/all-you-can-eat-data-terms-conditions/

4. Three continuously monitors network performance to ensure that the service received by customers is not impacted through a minority of users placing high demand on network resources (e.g. large bandwidths over long periods). Should your data usage exceed 15GB in a billing cycle and your usage affect other network users, we reserve the right to limit your Service.

jugger0

Some shower of cowboys, my 50mb internet is the slowest bar dial up ive ever had, cant even load a youtube video ffs.

Thor

dub45 wrote: »

http://shop.three.ie/terms/all-you-can-eat-data-terms-conditions/

For me it's 2TB and most of my friends and family on the same all you can eat contract.



Also, I have gone over 15GB plenty of times and no word from Three!

ED E

Thor wrote: »

Not even remotely true.

Typical house of 3-4 people using netflix as their main source of entertainment would break the upc limit no problem.

He no where mentioned number of people so I was talking about 1 person.

Obviously with 4 things are very different.

Thor

ED E wrote: »

He no where mentioned number of people so I was talking about 1 person.

Obviously with 4 things are very different.

That's the point, while I can't say this for sure, if you get a 150Mb line, generally it's either because you download a lot and want it faster or because you share the line.

Either way, 500Gb between the 3-4 people in this day and age is not good enough. Consider the amount of people that are getting letters is only going up, simply because they either don't know about the limit or have no way of even checking it themselves to see where they are at.

Still doesn't give UPC and excuse for lying so directly. No one should even bother arguing that point as it's fact.

ED E

Not disputing that the ads are wrong.

What happens anyways is that if you have several heavy users and go over two months in a row they bump you to a higher package. It happened to a friend. Not sure if you're on 150 do they move you to business though.

dead_tree

Do UPC charge if you go over the 500gb?

I'm currently with Magnet on unlimited downloads (not sure if that's really unlimited or fair usage) but I've not seen any mention of an actual limit on their site.

Peregrine

Thor wrote: »

If UPC advertised the 500GB limit and not that it's unlimited, we wouldn't have a problem. Although I do think they should be providing us with a way to check our limits ourselves and not have to email AUP@upc.ie everytime to get an update.

I believe you can find out by ringing 1908. Key in your account number then 2 for technical support, 2 for broadband and then 1 for usage. It tells you how much you used last month and how much you used so far this month.

jarvis

Thor wrote: »

For me it's 2TB and most of my friends and family on the same all you can eat contract.



Also, I have gone over 15GB plenty of times and no word from Three!

You have repeatedly said 500GB a month is no way near enough. You also have 2TB a month on mobile data, yet with only 19 days remaining in your billing month you have managed to use zero mobile data and actually have slightly more remaining than you started the month with.

are you sure 500GB isn't enough for you?????

jarvis

My bone of contention with UPC is that they consistantly advertise broadband starting at 50MB basic. My area is only capable of receiving 25MB (upped to 30!!). I also can't avail of HD, remote record or anytime.

I acyually love the UPC service but really want all the additional goodies, it just bugs me every time I hear the advertisement!!!

Gummy Panda

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

I believe you can find out by ringing 1908. Key in your account number then 2 for technical support, 2 for broadband and then 1 for usage. It tells you how much you used last month and how much you used so far this month.

Thanks for this!

My broadband has been slow all morning and thought maybe I had hit the usage. Checked it there and not even a scratch and I would consider myself a heavy user.

livEwirE

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

I believe you can find out by ringing 1908. Key in your account number then 2 for technical support, 2 for broadband and then 1 for usage. It tells you how much you used last month and how much you used so far this month.

Cheers mate, that works a charm, great tip

kaisersose77

i dont seem to get an option to enter 2 etc, just says its going to put me through to someone. Do you need to be ringing with a upc phoneline?

Peregrine

kaisersose77 wrote: »

i dont seem to get an option to enter 2 etc, just says its going to put me through to someone. Do you need to be ringing with a upc phoneline?

Choose "Technical Support" and then "Broadband"

I used my mobile phone when I tried and it worked

kaisersose77

They just put me straight through to customer service, no automated options (apart from the account number part). Maybe its not working atm or do you have to ask someone to put you through to technical support?

Peregrine

kaisersose77 wrote: »

They just put me straight through to customer service, no automated options (apart from the account number part). Maybe its not working atm or do you have to ask someone to put you through to technical support?

No..that's really weird. I've always had to go through like 3 or number presses to talk to someone and there would be options to have you account details, usage, offers etc. read out to you. I've never been put straight through to a person after my account number

kaisersose77

they must be having issues with the automated service as it worked earlier this morning but going straight to customer service now. Usage seems to be based on bill period not calendar month.

slave1

I tried this route for the craic and no automated option to check usage, I needed to talk to someone but they didn't know how to do it for the calendar month (just the last 30days)! eventually found out my usage in the end.
They mentioned they were working on new portal where you could check for yourself via the UPC website, no rollout period indicated...