buying a new gun advise needed

Seamus the hunter

hey I am new to the forms I was lucking for a budget rifle for foxes and I stumbled over a very cheap rifle bran new out of the box was .223 mounts and scope 700 euro witch should do the job it as a marlin x7 in.223 calibre if anyone has any experience with this or any input would be great full new to the forms so sorry if I did anything wrong

Seamus

Cass

Welcome to the site.

I don't own one, but have used one in .308 cal. I found the rifle to be fine for the job. A shot or two, and that's it.

Accuracy was good, but the flaws i found were the very thin barrel (prone to heating very quickly), and the fore-end is not the strongest.

However for the price it's hard to argue, and in .223 cal perhaps the heating issue will not be a problem as much as with the .308.

fish slapped on here has one. Perhaps he could give better round up of the gun's performance.

cookimonster

I have the Xs7 in .243 and it does the job. Theses guns are just a few of the many now produced in US as budget guns aimed at the entry level shooter or the economy minded. I bought mine as it was affordable and realisticly a better option for the amonut of use I will give it.
Some will tell you they have no resale value but what gun does its all relative. They are cheep but they shoot very well for a hunting rifle. The only draw back is the blind magazine, but you get used to it. As I said before my cheep 'Walmart' gun still kills deer and foxs as dead as the other 'Designer Brands'

Seamus the hunter

Thanks for the feedback I was aware of the issue of the heating barrel but as a hunter I shouldent think that should be to big of a deal another thing is the scope I have no clue what so ever on scopes so what would ye think of a Bushnell 6-18x50 scope

Cass

Good scope, good range of mag power, large objective lens so good light. Will sit nicely on top.

Seamus the hunter

Cass wrote: »

Good scope, good range of mag power, large objective lens so good light. Will sit nicely on top.

cheers lad I think might go about applying for the licence tomorrow would transferring take long probably depends on the local sarge

Cass

Usually no more than 14 working days ( 3 weeks), but can be sooner. As you said depends on FO.

One shot on kill

Welcome to the forum lad

Seamus the hunter

cheers will update when I get or if not thanks for the help I am liking the forms and only here a hour or so

4gun

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback I was aware of the issue of the heating barrel but as a hunter I shouldent think that should be to big of a deal another thing is the scope I have no clue what so ever on scopes so what would ye think of a Bushnell 6-18x50 scope

you'd only have to worry about barrel heating up if your a target shooter,
in a hunting scenario you may only ever shoot a maximum of three shots at a target in a five minute period....beyond that is plenty time for your barrel to cool

Target shooters often have to fire twenty shot in a matter of minute, as the barrel heats up the point of impact will change,
they can afford the heavy barrel due to not having to carry the gun around while hunting.
As you are new to hunting, it is highly unlikely you will be targeting anything beyond 200 yard, that is until you get more confidence
as an entry level gun for hunting and only hunting the Marlin will do very well,
though you may find that you will very quickly outgrow the gun as you get better at shooting.
If you intend to target shoot then you would really have to consider getting a better quality gun,

There is nothing wrong with your scope selection, Bushnell do what youd expect them for the price you pay for them.
A very good scope that is on parity with bushnell is the Hawke sidewinder
I have a bushnell legend on my stalking rifle, which is ok but for the same money the Hake is better

Seamus the hunter

4gun wrote: »

you'd only have to worry about barrel heating up if your a target shooter,
in a hunting scenario you may only ever shoot a maximum of three shots at a target in a five minute period....beyond that is plenty time for your barrel to cool

Target shooters often have to fire twenty shot in a matter of minute, as the barrel heats up the point of impact will change,
they can afford the heavy barrel due to not having to carry the gun around while hunting.
As you are new to hunting, it is highly unlikely you will be targeting anything beyond 200 yard, that is until you get more confidence
as an entry level gun for hunting and only hunting the Marlin will do very well,
though you may find that you will very quickly outgrow the gun as you get better at shooting.
If you intend to target shoot then you would really have to consider getting a better quality gun,

There is nothing wrong with your scope selection, Bushnell do what youd expect them for the price you pay for them.
A very good scope that is on parity with bushnell is the Hawke sidewinder
I have a bushnell legend on my stalking rifle, which is ok but for the same money the Hake is better

Thanks for your detailed post yes it is a step up I had a 22lr for rabbits but i soon wanted bigger i would be hopeing to get foxes 250 yards in about with this rifle would that be possible was looking at a Remington 700 but after a bit of thought I said I wouldn't put it to enough use was 900 euro plain nothing on it was stainless steel fluted barrel nice gun

4gun

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

Thanks for your detailed post yes it is a step up I had a 22lr for rabbits but i soon wanted bigger i would be hopeing to get foxes 250 yards in about with this rifle would that be possible was looking at a Remington 700 but after a bit of thought I said I wouldn't put it to enough use was 900 euro plain nothing on it was stainless steel fluted barrel nice gun

There is no reason why you should not be able to shoot out to 250 yards with an entry level gun, but you may not get the same level of consistency with it as you would get with say a custom gun for example.

My own advice would be to get the best gun you can afford, the same with the scope.
As I said in the other post, your shooting skill may very quickly exceed that of gun,
I know you are considering the 223, but long term the 243 might be worth
a thought, Its flatter shooting, longer range and also gives you the option of deer,
I cant say for absolute certain but I think there are ruger 243 deals for €1300
with moderator, Nikko Stirling scope, bi-pod, sling, hard foam lined case and 40 rounds.

I'll check that out to be sure

Seamus the hunter

4gun wrote: »

There is no reason why you should not be able to shoot out to 250 yards with an entry level gun, but you may not get the same level of consistency with it as you would get with say a custom gun for example.

My own advice would be to get the best gun you can afford, the same with the scope.
As I said in the other post, your shooting skill may very quickly exceed that of gun,
I know you are considering the 223, but long term the 243 might be worth
a thought, Its flatter shooting, longer range and also gives you the option of deer,
I cant say for absolute certain but I think there are ruger 243 deals for €1300
with moderator, Nikko Stirling scope, bi-pod, sling, hard foam lined case and 40 rounds.

I'll check that out to be sure

thanks I thought of a 243 but that is as far as it went there is no deer around here (but would love to shoot one) the ammo price here is a big difference .223 box for 50 is 40 something correct me if i am wrong but i was showed a box of 50 hornady ammo for in around 45 euro the ammo i would guess is allot cheaper over there

clivej

Seamus for the money your looking to spend give both Stakelums in Thurles and O'Hallaran's in Drangan a call and see what scondhand rifles they have in stock. Your in KK so they are not so far off, I'd call them my Local dealers. Of all my firearms only 1 was bought new.

They may even have a deal going on a new rifle.

And O'Hallaran had the bushnell banner 6-18x50 @€;199 on the shelve.
They are good scopes, I have 2 of them that get used every weekend.

yubabill1

the ammo price here is a big difference .223 box for 50 is 40 something correct me if i am wrong but i was showed a box of 50 hornady ammo for in around 45 euro the ammo i would guess is allot cheaper over there

Ammo can be a big decider.

You can shoot 223 a lot cheaper than 243 if you are smart.

You have the opportunity now, so I recommend you do like me: get a 223 with a 1 in 8 twist barrel (if nothing stamped on barrel, then it's 1 in 12).
With the 1:8 (or1:9, but only these) you can buy ammo no-one else will use and get it cheap.
You could do worse than get a good 2/H rifle for 700Euros. Get someone you trust to check it.
I bought 200 rounds Tulammo 223 FMJ #Saturday for 50euros. That's as cheap as shooting a 22Magnum.
I shoot a lot of rabbits and find these adequate, if a little dirty. They are 62grain, which is heavier than normal. For foxes 55gr HPs etc shoot fine in my barrel, but it can shoot up to 75 grain bullets, too(which hit them like a f**in train!)

Just my 2c.

Seamus the hunter

clivej wrote: »

Seamus for the money your looking to spend give both Stakelums in Thurles and O'Hallaran's in Drangan a call and see what scondhand rifles they have in stock. Your in KK so they are not so far off, I'd call them my Local dealers. Of all my firearms only 1 was bought new.

They may even have a deal going on a new rifle.

And O'Hallaran had the bushnell banner 6-18x50 @€;199 on the shelve.
They are good scopes, I have 2 of them that get used every weekend.

cheers clive i have went to O'Hallaran and that's where i was offered the marlin x7 with a bushnell 6-18 scope for 700 euro bran new as for stakelums i went to thurles and arrived and a butchers said they where closed so waste of journey ? and as for the bushnell what do you think of that scope i havent a clue just looked threw it that's all seemed ok

Cass

You sure you went to the right place for Stakelums? They are open Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Sturday, and every 4th Sunday between 9 and 6pm.

Seamus the hunter

yubabill1 wrote: »

the ammo price here is a big difference .223 box for 50 is 40 something correct me if i am wrong but i was showed a box of 50 hornady ammo for in around 45 euro the ammo i would guess is allot cheaper over there

Ammo can be a big decider.

You can shoot 223 a lot cheaper than 243 if you are smart.

You have the opportunity now, so I recommend you do like me: get a 223 with a 1 in 8 twist barrel (if nothing stamped on barrel, then it's 1 in 12).
With the 1:8 (or1:9, but only these) you can buy ammo no-one else will use and get it cheap.
You could do worse than get a good 2/H rifle for 700Euros. Get someone you trust to check it.
I bought 200 rounds Tulammo 223 FMJ #Saturday for 50euros. That's as cheap as shooting a 22Magnum.
I shoot a lot of rabbits and find these adequate, if a little dirty. They are 62grain, which is heavier than normal. For foxes 55gr HPs etc shoot fine in my barrel, but it can shoot up to 75 grain bullets, too(which hit them like a f**in train!)

Just my 2c.

yea i am not to pushed on using that ammo i was offered it but pay for quality what would you recommend like something tht would drop them like a sack of spuds

Seamus the hunter

Cass wrote: »

You sure you went to the right place for Stakelums? They are open Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Sturday, and every 4th Sunday between 9 and 6pm.

dident know where it was rang the phone but no answer went and the butcher said he thought it was a hardware store and it has closed some time ago

Cass

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

dident know where it was rang the phone but no answer went and the butcher said he thought it was a hardware store and it has closed some time ago

Fecking eegit. The butcher that is.

They were on railway road, but the place was nightmare to get into. So they moved "around the corner". They are in Racecourse retail park, Nenagh road. Numbers are;
0504 28690
087 4131799

Cass

They own hardware, gun shop, office furniture, clothing shops all around Tipp. so how he didn't know of at least one of them.

Seamus the hunter

well it was a waste of a drive then f**k it anyway well im going to Waterford wensday and have 2 gun shops lined up kilmacow and somewhere else farther picked that

yubabill1

yea i am not to pushed on using that ammo i was offered it but pay for quality what would you recommend like something tht would drop them like a sack of spuds

With a 223, anything with expanding head (hollow point, ballistic tip, pointed soft point) will drop them instantly, as long as you hit them in the chest and keep the range real. Start at 22LR distances and work your way up slowly.

My point about choosing a rifle carefully will pay back with an expanded choice of ammo. The 223 is one of very few calibres offered with a choice of barrel twist rates, the reasons for which I won't go into here. You can exploit this to get cheap shooting.

I know a guy with a legendary reputation who practices what I am saying: shoot cheap, shoot often.
Premium ammo will shoot better than you or I ever can in the field. I have seen this guy put 2 rounds in 1/4 inch at a lasered 400m. That was not an isolated incident. Granted, he was using a 10,000 Euro rig, but in the field this guy will hold moa, same as me. So, he can't shoot as good as the ammo is capable of when in the field, even with an unbelievable rifle and scope.

Back to real life for the likes of us, with 1000 Euro rigs (before depreciation) and if you can shoot into an inch or inch and a half at 100 yds, then you're shooting as good as you can hope to from an improvised field position.

Point: ammo not as important as you might think, when you are a hunter.

Seamus the hunter

yubabill1 wrote: »

yea i am not to pushed on using that ammo i was offered it but pay for quality what would you recommend like something tht would drop them like a sack of spuds

With a 223, anything with expanding head (hollow point, ballistic tip, pointed soft point) will drop them instantly, as long as you hit them in the chest and keep the range real. Start at 22LR distances and work your way up slowly.

My point about choosing a rifle carefully will pay back with an expanded choice of ammo. The 223 is one of very few calibres offered with a choice of barrel twist rates, the reasons for which I won't go into here. You can exploit this to get cheap shooting.

I know a guy with a legendary reputation who practices what I am saying: shoot cheap, shoot often.
Premium ammo will shoot better than you or I ever can in the field. I have seen this guy put 2 rounds in 1/4 inch at a lasered 400m. That was not an isolated incident. Granted, he was using a 10,000 Euro rig, but in the field this guy will hold moa, same as me. So, he can't shoot as good as the ammo is capable of when in the field, even with an unbelievable rifle and scope.

Back to real life for the likes of us, with 1000 Euro rigs (before depreciation) and if you can shoot into an inch or inch and a half at 100 yds, then you're shooting as good as you can hope to from an improvised field position.

Point: ammo not as important as you might think, when you are a hunter.

well i dont know about lr distance you could nearly kill them with a shovel at that range lol witch brings me to it would ye be able to value mine? remington 522 viper nice little rifle

yubabill1

22LR effective distance, approx 75yds IMHO (not for foxes, rabbits), some will get more, some less.
Sorry, don't know anything about the value of your rig.
Someone here surely will.
Just take a little time to consider the options you will have.
Best of luck, you won't go far wrong with a 223.

Seamus the hunter

yubabill1 wrote: »

22LR effective distance, approx 75yds IMHO (not for foxes, rabbits), some will get more, some less.
Sorry, don't know anything about the value of your rig.
Someone here surely will.
Just take a little time to consider the options you will have.
Best of luck, you won't go far wrong with a 223.

hopefully i wont anyway but thanks for all your help and pointing me in the right direction that goes for anyone who helped in any shape or form

4gun

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

thanks I thought of a 243 but that is as far as it went there is no deer around here (but would love to shoot one) the ammo price here is a big difference .223 box for 50 is 40 something correct me if i am wrong but i was showed a box of 50 hornady ammo for in around 45 euro the ammo i would guess is allot cheaper over there

The cheap 223, wolf, american eagle and so isnt reliable enough to shoot out to 250 yards, Not with what your proposing to spend on you gun. All its good for is plinking.
You can pay anywhere between €25 and upwards for quality 223,
Dont get me wrong about the 225, you will kill numerous amounts of foxes with it, Its a great next step from the 22lr
Keep an eye out for a LUGER 223. I had one a few years ago and found them very good quality for less than €500 new.
They are a Serbian made gun but were sold in the U.S as a Remington model 799.
There are no deer where I live either (they are extremely rare) don't make it an obstacle.

Best of luck with what ever you decide hope you get a real bit of quality

yubabill1

The cheap 223, wolf, american eagle and so isnt reliable enough to shoot out to 250 yards, Not with what your proposing to spend on you gun. All its good for is plinking.

This guy is right.

You need premium ammo for long range, but out to 150 yds, the cheap stuff (10Euro or less per box) is fine for rabbits, tin cans, rocks etc. You can get 200yd precision with some of the cheap ammo, with a really good rig, set up properly - costing several thousand Euros.

You are probably bewildered by all the advice here. Most guys use off-the-shelf rifles/scopes and premium ammo, avoiding the cheap stuff.

There is nothing wrong with that and it's a very good place to start.

Don't worry about the 200 yard talk, either. That's for later. Keep the ranges real to start. Your first fox should be close, be really sure of him.

clivej

Cass wrote: »

Fecking eegit. The butcher that is.

They were on railway road, but the place was nightmare to get into. So they moved "around the corner". They are in Racecourse retail park, Nenagh road. Numbers are;
0504 28690
087 4131799

Give Sean a ring he is the man to ask about the firearms section. A gent to talk too and he will see you right. Ask what new and secondhand rifles he has in stock.

087 4131799

That Bushnell scope is very good and I have them on 2 of my rifles that get used most weekends at the range or in national competitions.
They have the 'Multi X' reticle that is good for point and shoot shooting - great for foxing IMO.

Seamus the hunter

4gun wrote: »

The cheap 223, wolf, american eagle and so isnt reliable enough to shoot out to 250 yards, Not with what your proposing to spend on you gun. All its good for is plinking.
You can pay anywhere between €25 and upwards for quality 223,
Dont get me wrong about the 225, you will kill numerous amounts of foxes with it, Its a great next step from the 22lr
Keep an eye out for a LUGER 223. I had one a few years ago and found them very good quality for less than €500 new.
They are a Serbian made gun but were sold in the U.S as a Remington model 799.
There are no deer where I live either (they are extremely rare) don't make it an obstacle.

Best of luck with what ever you decide hope you get a real bit of quality

yes i will keep a eye out for that thanks for that i might buy some cheap ammo for messing around with but the hassle of re zeroing again but all part of it and deer licence is not worth the hassle for what I will get out of it

Seamus the hunter

yea i try avoid the cheap stuff to but i am on a budget was thinking of a Remington 700 but maybe can still do as for the 200 yard talk its the 1000 yard talk im thinking of lol jk

Seamus the hunter

To be honest i dont think i will be heading back that direction again but maybe a detour is due

yubabill1

yea i try avoid the cheap stuff to but i am on a budget was thinking of a Remington 700 but maybe can still do as for the 200 yard talk its the 1000 yard talk im thinking of lol jk

Won't go wrong with Remy 700!
Presume you're thinking 2/Hand, think they are 1300 new (not up to date with this) should be half that 2/H.

Like before, get someone you trust to check it out first. Remy's not known to wear out, if you look after them. In 223, should be good for at least 30,000 rounds down the tube. That's one reason why 223 so popular - they last.

Seamus the hunter

Yea it was 900 euro bare fluted barrel was a nick looking pice of kit but scope mounts your taking 1000 +

yubabill1

Not up to date on prices, but 900 sounds dear for 2/hand Remy 700.

If they gave you really good price on your 22, then OK.

Bet there's plenty of good deals out there.

Seamus the hunter

no he aint getting the 22 maybe private sale for less price for the person who is buying it sake i will look for a 22 down the line again around summer for rabbits or even a 17hmr

yubabill1

OK, here's the rub- I had 22LR for years, changed to 17HMR 10 years ago : Lovely little round, great killer, but makes sh*t of the meat. Went 223 6 or 7 years ago and shoot rabbits with cheap FMJ ammo I was talking about- no meat damage, because bullet passes right through but the round is so powerful, it kills instantly. Never lost a rabbit that I can remember.
So one rifle does foxes and rabbits.
I have Tikka T3 Varmint, cost 900 new in 05 or 06, I think. Did nothing to it, just straight out of box. great workman of a rig.

Seamus the hunter

well i was in Waterford today and seen a .223 sabatti with a heavy barrel the man said the scope alone was €1000 probably talking threw his hole but was a nice piece of kit but heavy €750 not bad wooden rifle not sure of what model thoughts anyone

Seamus the hunter

might try that fmj ammo but that would require a re zero of the rifle wouldn't it?

yubabill1

You will need to try a few different brands, but be assured you will find an FMJ and an expanding bullet that have the same POI (point of aim). Different rifles like different ammo, the twist rate is only part of the reason why.

you can buy several brands of FMJ and a large range of expanding tip ammo for the 223.

Don't know anything about Sabatti rifles, only reemember their scatterguns.

You could do a lot worse than Tikka T3 lite or T3 hunter - less expensive than Varmint or Tactical variants, but very, very accurate with 55gr ammo, use same action, very similar stock, just a lighter barrel (not necessarily a bad thing). Should be around your budget new.

Seamus the hunter

what do you mean scatter guns

yubabill1

Shotguns.

No idea if they still make any.

Recommend you stick to long-established rifle brands. IMHO. They make better rifles than the newer guys, again IMHO.

I'm a fan of Tikka / Sako/ Remington/ Sig / Marlin/ CZ, not necessarily in any order.

There are lots of others, but these are just my 2c.
Other people will have their own legitimate opinions.

yubabill1

Seamus, found this in for sale/wanted section.

Know nothing about this guy or his rifle, just giving an idea of something that might suit.

Brazzill wrote: »

Well lads im selling this clean rifle as i lost interest. Ready for fox's very flat rifle, lovely balanced. Comes with t8 silencer, bushnell banner scope and new light force lamp extended wire and brand new battery/chager used once. 850 for the lot priced to sell

info:
http://www.ruger.com/products/m77MarkIITarget/specSheets/17975.html

I AM NOT TELLING YOU TO BUY THIS, I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GUN'S CONDITION.

Seamus the hunter

Cass wrote: »

Fecking eegit. The butcher that is.

They were on railway road, but the place was nightmare to get into. So they moved "around the corner". They are in Racecourse retail park, Nenagh road. Numbers are;
0504 28690
087 4131799

that number is wrong landline one anyway anyone have the correct one

yubabill1

Sorry, don't know how to copy link.

Go into Shooting

Then, instead of going to hunting, Go to Shooting for sale/wanted

or type "Boards.ie Shooting for sale/ wanted" into google

Seamus the hunter

cheers do you have stakelums number in thurles landline

tac foley

yubabill1 wrote: »

You could do a lot worse than Tikka T3 lite or T3 hunter - less expensive than Varmint or Tactical variants, but very, very accurate with 55gr ammo, use same action, very similar stock, just a lighter barrel (not necessarily a bad thing). Should be around your budget new.

THIS.

tac

yubabill1

cheers do you have stakelums number in thurles landline

sorry, no.

Bought a pile of ammo there a few years ago. nice people, as far as that goes.

Prefer to keep my own counsel, when it comes to buying anything, though.

Seamus the hunter

well was going to ring this evening but ah well but will get over it and that gun was a nice piece of kit do you know that model or just saw it and thought of me sorry for late reply had to give cattle nuts

yubabill1

It is a Ruger M77, i think.

Has 1:9 barrel, too.

should be plenty of them about.

Don't rule out the Tikka Lite - quite similar. Should be plentiful, too but 1:12 barrel, so will not perform with the really cheap ammo I was talking about earlier.

Don't get too confused. pick a rifle you like and try out different brands of ammo until you find something it likes - then STICK WITH IT.:cool:

Seamus the hunter

what do you think of this rifles specs and thanks for all the help http://www.ruger.com/products/m77MarkIITarget/specSheets/17975.html