Another soft sentence: Chef loses taste after unprovoked attack

davet82

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/pair-jailed-for-vicious-street-attack-on-spaniard-29053631.html

SPANISH chef lost his sense of taste and had his skull reinforced with screws after being struck with a golf club and wooden samurai sword in a savage street assault.

Jorge Roca (40), from Valencia in Spain, insisted he still loves Ireland and Cork despite the unprovoked attack that left him fighting for his life.
Shane Cotter (20) of Annmount Cross, Friars Walk, Cork, who has 49 previous convictions, was jailed for three years for assault causing serious harm.

Danny O'Brien (20) of Brandon Court, Dillons Cross, Cork, who produced the golf club used by Cotter to attack Mr Roca and who has 84 previous convictions, was jailed for 18 months for violent disorder.

The Spaniard told the Irish Independent he was disappointed with the sentences. "I am not a judge. I am a chef. But that was not really very good," he said.

Cotter later told Gardai: "I wanted to do damage. I was in a temper. I wanted to kill him."

I really feel these guys deserved a longer sentence with records like that. I don't understand why they go so easy on these guys. For me this was attempted murder, the guy admitted it 'I wanted to kill him' but instead he will be out in less than a year to randomly attack another stranger and take or ruin another life. A chef without taste ffs... the chap has been robbed of his livelyhood more or less...

smash

49 previous convictions... 84 previous convictions... they should have their hands and feet amputated so they can't really do anything for the rest of their lives.

missingtime

The two of them are 20 and they have 133 convictions between them!

Lapin

Ireland has the best legal system in the world.

But no justce system.

speedboatchase

*Loses

davet82

is this random attack phenomenon a new thing or is it just me?

is it someting that just seems to happen in the uk an ireland or does this happen on the continent?

I just cannot get my head around the reasoning for this.

somefeen

I always secretly suspect that the reason they publish the criminal's addresses is so we can form a vigilante mob.

Death and Taxes

davet82 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/pair-jailed-for-vicious-street-attack-on-spaniard-29053631.html



I really feel these guys deserved a longer sentence with records like that. I don't understand why they go so easy on these guys. For me this was attempted murder, the guy admitted it 'I wanted to kill him' but instead he will be out in less than a year to randomly attack another stranger and take or ruin another life. A chef without taste ffs... the chap has been robbed of his livelyhood more or less...

Firstly they are scumbags, no arguement. Secondly, they were not charged with attempted murder so could only be sentenced with what they were charged with and with standard remission neither will be out in less than a year!
My own preferred solution in cases like this would be an indefinite sentence with a minimum attached, so they would not be released for at least three years and only then if they had completed specific programmes in jail and could show they had taken real steps to mend their ways.
My sympathies are with the poor victim.

GLaDOS

These attacks always seem to be perpetrated by people with dozens of previous convictions

davet82

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Firstly they are scumbags, no arguement. Secondly, they were not charged with attempted murder so could only be sentenced with what they were charged with and with standard remission neither will be out in less than a year!

I understand they weren't charged with attempted murder but they bloody well should have been, hitting somebody with a golf club in the head! The guy sentenced to 18 months should be out in less than a year no?

SafeSurfer

A very tasteless story.

Death and Taxes

davet82 wrote: »

I understand they weren't charged with attempted murder but they bloody well should have been, hitting somebody with a golf club in the head! The guy sentenced to 18 months should be out in less than a year no?

No, standard remission is 25%.
The guy who got 18 months didnt hit anyone he provided the weapon.

davet82

WileyCoyote wrote: »

No, standard remission is 25%.
The guy who got 18 months didnt hit anyone he provided the weapon.

Still too short for somebody with a record like that, remission should be for attempts to rehabilitate not keeping your head down

Death and Taxes

davet82 wrote: »

Still too short for somebody with a record like that, remission should be for attempts to rehabilitate not keeping your head down

That was kinda the point I was making, I'm not disagreeing with you.

davet82

WileyCoyote wrote: »

That was kinda the point I was making, I'm not disagreeing with you.

I know

Duck Soup

It's referred to in one of the comments under the Indo article and I think it's a reasonable idea - 3 strikes and you're out, American-style.

In America, it seems to be misused on minor drug offences so the end result is something like one in five black males can expect to be in prison at some time. But the basic idea is sound. It's a relative handful of people who are responsible for much of the crime in any society.

If we were to say 3 significant crimes - theft, assault, fraud etc., etc - and then you're away for a long, long time. 20 years say.

Three strikes and the two scumbies involved in this attack wouldn't have been on the street to do it. And they wouldn't have been around to commit the 100+ other crimes either.

spitfireIRL

i know both those guys, they are absolute scum. One of them attacked a guy with a machete in the city centre about 3 years ago but nothing came of it. Hope they get stabbed to death in jail. Their friends too while i'm on a roll, pack of rats. Glad the spanish guy is okay.. *breathe*

davet82

Duck Soup wrote: »

If we were to say 3 significant crimes - theft, assault, fraud etc., etc - and then you're away for a long, long time. 20 years say.

3 strikes for serious crime sounds right to send them away for that length of time

smurgen

am I missing something here? the fella admitted that he wanted to murder the spanish lad but wasn't done for attempted murder? how does that work?!

Cienciano

What sort of 20 year old attacks a random person with a golf club to the head? With the amount of convictions these 2 scumbags have, locking them up and throwing away the key wouldn't be any loss to society.
Does the judge think they'll be reformed by 3 years (closer to one) in prison? If they are reformed after this, I'll eat my balls.

leonidas83

The judicial system is a farce in this country. We have one the highest incarceration rates in Europe for non-payment of fines & then you read cases like this.

There is a big divide between what the public think & what the judges decide now in this country. We are coming to a stage where people are starting to feel the system does not reflect or represent them & this is a worrying trend for everybody.

Gunmonkey

somefeen wrote: »

I always secretly suspect that the reason they publish the criminal's addresses is so we can form a vigilante mob.

Yeah but we dont have the whole "Ah but shure didnt they come from a disadvantaged background" get-out-of-anything-free-card playing in our favour, then we would get the book, bookcase and whole stack of library cards thrown at us......

smurgen wrote: »

am I missing something here? the fella admitted that he wanted to murder the spanish lad but wasn't done for attempted murder? how does that work?!

"Ah but shure like....its yah see....when de thing...and ya know yerself?"

Generally seems to be the judges reasoning behind most of these leniant sentances. Was there any traces of massive amounts of drugs or alcohol in the guys system, because if he was sober/coherent and says:

I wanted to do damage. I was in a temper. I wanted to kill him.

after beating a guy in the head with a golf club......thats kinda the type of person you dont want on the streets!

krudler

If I ever get done for my tv licence not being paid I'm going to murder someone, suspended sentence then woohoo.


Really though the judicial system in this country is an absolute farce, out of touch judges who dont see the bigger picture.

Grand Moff Tarkin

smurgen wrote: »

am I missing something here? the fella admitted that he wanted to murder the spanish lad but wasn't done for attempted murder? how does that work?!

He seems the sort of person who will eventually carry out a murder at the rate he is going.

donalg1

84 and 49 convictions they should have been in prison already so they couldnt attack him, any more than 3 convictions and its into prison you go for a minimum of 20years, dont pass go and dont collect €188

Duck Soup

Cienciano wrote: »

What sort of 20 year old attacks a random person with a golf club to the head? With the amount of convictions these 2 scumbags have, locking them up and throwing away the key wouldn't be any loss to society.
Does the judge think they'll be reformed by 3 years (closer to one) in prison? If they are reformed after this, I'll eat my balls.

There are two constants about crime in just about every society. The first is that the majority of crimes are committed by a relative handful of people. The second is that the people who are convicted are overwhelmingly young males. We can speculate as to why that might be - societal, raging testosterone - but if you take these crime-spree head-the-balls out of circulation, crime dips precipitously and they return to society heading for 40 and well past their anti-social peak.

By all means create rehabilitation and educational programmes that will make them potential contributors to the society they re-enter. But it's long past the time that small groups of people should have been deprived of their ability and freedom to terrorize and ruin the lives of the people around them.

crockholm

I have always believed that judges, like politicians should be elected,that way,the judges become answerable to the people of Ireland.

On an anecdotal note, I have been told that, even when people are sent to prison,the one's that use "dirty protest" and variants thereof are usually released earlier because prison governors don't want the hassle given that they themselves would be accountable should inspectors be visiting the prison.

again,that would be anecdotal,so if it is BS I won't contest it.

spurious

smash wrote: »

49 previous convictions... 84 previous convictions... they should have their hands and feet amputated so they can't really do anything for the rest of their lives.

I'd be surprised if they ever do anything of value in their lives, with or without their extremities.

MaxSteele

Shane Cotter (20) of Annmount Cross, Friars Walk, Cork

Danny O'Brien (20) of Brandon Court, Dillons Cross, Cork

Corkonians, take note of the above addresses.

donalg1

Does anyone know if the judge would have known of their previous convictions and if so are previous convictions ever taken into account when handing down the sentences.

Death and Taxes

donalg1 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the judge would have known of their previous convictions and if so are previous convictions ever taken into account when handing down the sentences.

The judge is informed prior to sentencing

donalg1

WileyCoyote wrote: »

The judge is informed prior to sentencing

Good lord well thats worse again, as he clearly mustnt have taken these into consideration when passing sentence, how many convictions is too many?

Surely we could have a law for example that states yes the max sentence for such and such crime is 3 years or whatever, however based on the number of your previous convictions we can increase sentence by 1 year per conviction if we so desire.

Capt'n Midnight

missingtime wrote: »

The two of them are 20 and they have 133 convictions between them!

from what age ?

and how many offences per month is that ?

rehabilitation is the best way

BUT if some one has rejected multiple chances then perhaps the needs of society should be taken into account.