Is it ironic????

mountai

That the Irish Kit Car Club are going to display at the upcoming Classic Car show in the RDS this weekend????. Apart from-- RUST,-- THEY--- must be the biggest threat, to the survival of the Classic movement in this country. Strange one this IMHO.

bbsrs

mountai wrote: »

That the Irish Kit Car Club are going to display at the upcoming Classic Car show in the RDS this weekend????. Apart from-- RUST,-- THEY--- must be the biggest threat, to the survival of the Classic movement in this country. Strange one this IMHO.

You make IKCC sound like a lethal virus . I thought they just had a few kit cars to display.

Grimreaper666

Each to their own really. Most people don't take kit cars seriously anyway so I doubt they'll be a threat anytime soon.

Silvera

IMHO, there is plenty of 'room' in the car movement for all sorts of vehicles.

Kenny Logins

mountai wrote: »

That the Irish Kit Car Club are going to display at the upcoming Classic Car show in the RDS this weekend????. Apart from-- RUST,-- THEY--- must be the biggest threat, to the survival of the Classic movement in this country. Strange one this IMHO.

Threat how?

Tzar Chasm

I think he means threat in the sense that they get chassis for their creations from old classics

that said how many servicable vehicles have been chopped up for this purpose

kev1.3s

How many kit cars are currently on sale in Ireland at the moment? Not a huge amount id bet and normally they are built up on something quite common like a beetle, not really my cup of tea but they don't neseceraly offend me either.

mountai

Firstly, I have no problem with Kit Cars per se. Where there is a real threat, the amount of these cars that are cloned. The CC fraternity enjoy certain privileges,
such as classic road tax and import duties. The obvious abuse of these facilities will negate against the CC movement in the long run. There is a large minority of Kit Cars on cloned plates , the IKCC condones this behavior, by their recent action of removing the cloned number plates from photos on their site. I always thought that by not revealing "Relevant Information" ones Insurance would be negated.This , seemingly, is not the case, with the Club Policy that IKCC have with AXA. Mind you I would not like to be the first one to put it to the test.
The other concern is, if a person builds a kit car, then clones it, it will not be subject to any form of test before it goes on the road . In UK , there is a stringent test lasting 4 hours at least , to verify these cars are roadworthy. If people want to avoid large VRT and road tax , thats one thing, but endangering other road users, by having illegal cars on the road, well ?????.

oceanman

mountai wrote: »

Firstly, I have no problem with Kit Cars per se. Where there is a real threat, the amount of these cars that are cloned. The CC fraternity enjoy certain privileges,
such as classic road tax and import duties. The obvious abuse of these facilities will negate against the CC movement in the long run. There is a large minority of Kit Cars on cloned plates , the IKCC condones this behavior, by their recent action of removing the cloned number plates from photos on their site. I always thought that by not revealing "Relevant Information" ones Insurance would be negated.This , seemingly, is not the case, with the Club Policy that IKCC have with AXA. Mind you I would not like to be the first one to put it to the test.
The other concern is, if a person builds a kit car, then clones it, it will not be subject to any form of test before it goes on the road . In UK , there is a stringent test lasting 4 hours at least , to verify these cars are roadworthy. If people want to avoid large VRT and road tax , thats one thing, but endangering other road users, by having illegal cars on the road, well ?????.

WOW!!!!!!

Max Headroom

oceanman wrote: »

WOW!!!!!!

FCUK WOW..........:rolleyes:


Youre opening a huge septic can of worms there if youre suggesting that "only" kit cars are guilty of cloning....
BTW...most if not all guys who build their own (kit or classic) cars put a lot of time and expence into their safety and roadworthiness...most of them will bring their kids in them...mmmmm

Basil Fawlty

What difference does it make to your day what number plate some chap has on his kit car? People like you need to get a life. Live and let live not live and begrudge.

brucky

If they wish to display kit cars at the classic car show I think they should be encourage to display the part/s of the car that came from a classic car. i.e you could have a whole section dedicated to nice ladder chassis or just a Vin numbers in display cases. I would go even further. This event is marketed as a high end classic car event, "cars rarely seen before" etc, etc now I find out it’s going to be full of the usual tat. Or wait how’s about getting a load of people to bring their own classic cars into a field and then make them pay for the privilege, o sh*t I have just described the majority of the shows in Ireland. This is not a snobbish elitist view, I quite fancy building a kit car myself. However they don’t belong in a classic show! That’s not what people are paying €15 to see. If you cannot fill the space up with decent classics dont bother. Go to Goodwood Festival of Speed or the Revival and see how its done. It cheapens the branding. I had hoped these organisers would do a better job we deserve shows that promote classic vintage motoring in Ireland. I will let you know on Monday.

kev1.3s

I presume by cloning you mean using the donor cars identity? I would imagine that that practice stems from the Irish governments inability to put in place the basics systems to accommodate kit car owners, we have no single vehicle type approval so therefore no possible way in which these cars can apply for an identity of there own.

mountai

kev1.3s wrote: »

I presume by cloning you mean using the donor cars identity? I would imagine that that practice stems from the Irish governments inability to put in place the basics systems to accommodate kit car owners, we have no single vehicle type approval so therefore no possible way in which these cars can apply for an identity of there own.

No ,I dont mean using the "Donor Car Identity" . What I mean is --- Buy a car in UK.(usually a high end performance Cobra 3 to 5 l Replica) . Bring it into this country, use the identity of an existing Classic (say a Triumph Spitfire 1.5 l), avoid paying thousands in VRT and get annual Classic road tax 50E instead of 1500E . There IS a process for registering a self build in this country, but it costs , so why not clone the car and save money??. Plenty of the Kit Car lads have gone through this process , fair play to them, its the Cheats that compromise the Classic Car scene.

hi5

kev1.3s wrote: »

I presume by cloning you mean using the donor cars identity? I would imagine that that practice stems from the Irish governments inability to put in place the basics systems to accommodate kit car owners, we have no single vehicle type approval so therefore no possible way in which these cars can apply for an identity of there own.

Yes we do now,
http://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Automotive-Certification/Type-Approval/IVA---Individual-Vehicle-Approval.aspx
The problem is after you pass it you get hit for a great big whack of a VRT bill
for the pleasure of building it yourself:mad:

It must have a vintage chassis to avoid VRT.
The one possible way around this is if a kit car is built in the UK using the points system, suspension, engine, steering etc, wouldn't have a vintage chassis but would have the original UK vintage reg and so could be registered here on that.
Although I presume technicaly it should be declared as such here.

Heres what revenue say about Kit cars,

1.2.3.2 Kit Cars
Kit Car vehicles which are determined to be unregistered vehicles under the terms of
s130A of Finance Act 1992 as amended, will require an Individual Type-Approval
from the National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI).
A Kit Car, which is usually EU Category M1, is constructed from an amalgam of
parts some of which are supplied unassembled in kit form. In general, the kit will
include a variety of body panels and may include a new chassis that must be
assembled. The mechanics (e.g. engine, motors, etc.) and trim are usually obtained
from another vehicle to enable the process to be completed. In most cases the donor
vehicle will be a vehicle already registered in the State, but no allowance is
made/granted in this respect when VRT payable on the completed kit car is being
calculated.
In the case of Kit Trikes, usually EU category “L” (motorcycles), the practice has
been to consider the age of the major components for the purpose of deciding the age
reduction for the purpose of VRT. However it should be noted that trikes, as with kit
cars built using a new chassis, will be assigned a registration mark reflecting the year
of entry into use of the completed project.
It should also be noted that where a private individual acquires a newly-assembled kit
car abroad, the normal VAT rules should be applied, i.e. VAT is payable if the vehicle
is less than 6 months old or has traveled less than 6,000 km. Kit cars assembled in the
State are not liable for VAT where the sale/purchase invoice indicates that it has been
paid at the time of purchase of the kit.

corktina

Basil Fawlty wrote: »

What difference does it make to your day what number plate some chap has on his kit car? People like you need to get a life. Live and let live not live and begrudge.

it will make a difference to all Classic Car owners if their privileges get withdrawn as a result of abuse of the system and it makes a difference to all Tax Payers if people are dodging paying tax.

Max Headroom

corktina wrote: »

it will make a difference to all Classic Car owners if their privileges get withdrawn as a result of abuse of the system and it makes a difference to all Tax Payers if people are dodging paying tax.

Then you should go into any shopping center car park and count the number of modern cars without tax....;)

mountai

Max Headroom wrote: »

Then you should go into any shopping center car park and count the number of modern cars without tax....;)

Why are you defending this form of behavior?. What about the untested and possible dangerous car that just MIGHT knock you off your bike. I know a lot about building Kit Cars and can assure you that there is a huge number of cars in the UK that fail the test first time, and thats a place that has a long tradition of Home builds. The last Kit Car I imported had vintage status . After a long and protracted fight with the Revenue , I won my case. Subsequently I made major changes to the drive train and it involved minor changes to the chassis. As there was no test available , I put it through an NCT. I was derided by one of the IKCC officers for taking this line of action, as his reasoning was "Why bother to test it if its not required" A little knowledge --- etc. BTW I am strongly in favor of testing Classics as well.

oceanman

yeah the NTC 'gestapo' could do with a few bob extra!

f4fay

mountai wrote: »

Why are you defending this form of behavior?. What about the untested and possible dangerous car that just MIGHT knock you off your bike. I know a lot about building Kit Cars and can assure you that there is a huge number of cars in the UK that fail the test first time, and thats a place that has a long tradition of Home builds. The last Kit Car I imported had vintage status . After a long and protracted fight with the Revenue , I won my case. Subsequently I made major changes to the drive train and it involved minor changes to the chassis. As there was no test available , I put it through an NCT. I was derided by one of the IKCC officers for taking this line of action, as his reasoning was "Why bother to test it if its not required" A little knowledge --- etc. BTW I am strongly in favor of testing Classics as well.

Again !!!!!

f4fay

Pot

steveone

kit cars usually rotate around speicific donor cars-ie sierras or jags.. many of whom are at the end of their road lives so I reckon classics won't suffer from people collecting windfall apples?
also the interest in the kits might promote aftermarket manufacturing so we can keep the classics running.. I don't see it as a bad thing however I have one question...
can you go to england and buy a v8 cobra and present it to the vrt man here as a spitfire 1.5?

oceanman

steveone wrote: »

I have one question...
can you go to england and buy a v8 cobra and present it to the vrt man here as a spitfire 1.5?

i very much doubt if its as straight forward as that!

kev1.3s

Hi 5 my apologys I didn't realise that we had that test but I'm a little un clear if I were to buy a chisel speedster for example built with an Irish beetle chassis do I have to put that through the test or is that another little loophole? I too am in favour of vehicle testing for all but not the stealth tax that is the nct we've all heard the tales of cars with serious defects failing the test on some finickey thing like a broken headland bracket

mountai

steveone wrote: »

kit cars usually rotate around speicific donor cars-ie sierras or jags.. many of whom are at the end of their road lives so I reckon classics won't suffer from people collecting windfall apples?
also the interest in the kits might promote aftermarket manufacturing so we can keep the classics running.. I don't see it as a bad thing however I have one question...
can you go to england and buy a v8 cobra and present it to the vrt man here as a spitfire 1.5?

Of course you dont present it. Thats the point. You avoid paying VRT by using the log book of the Spitfire that is already registered here to road tax it. To insure it ---- you give the chassis no , the engine no of the Cobra , with the Reg no of the Spitfire to the Insurance Co and away you go!!!! The VRT man doesnt EVER come into it.

mountai

kev1.3s wrote: »

Hi 5 my apologys I didn't realise that we had that test but I'm a little un clear if I were to buy a chisel speedster for example built with an Irish beetle chassis do I have to put that through the test or is that another little loophole? I too am in favour of vehicle testing for all but not the stealth tax that is the nct we've all heard the tales of cars with serious defects failing the test on some finickey thing like a broken headland bracket

If the chassis of en existing VW is used then there is no need to have it tested ---unless the chassis has been subject to alteration. The Reg No of the car can be used, only if the body has been changed.

steveone

mountai wrote: »

Of course you dont present it. Thats the point. You avoid paying VRT by using the log book of the Spitfire that is already registered here to road tax it. To insure it ---- you give the chassis no , the engine no of the Cobra , with the Reg no of the Spitfire to the Insurance Co and away you go!!!! The VRT man doesnt EVER come into it.

I see.......

Baldandold

Kits are subject to the same NCT test as all cars.

mountai

Baldandold wrote: »

Kits are subject to the same NCT test as all cars.

Not when they have a FALSE pre 80s Reg Plate.

Max Headroom

mountai wrote: »

Why are you defending this form of behavior?. What about the untested and possible dangerous car that just MIGHT knock you off your bike. .

:rolleyes:......I'm not defending it , what i'm saying is one untaxed large modern Merc would pay for the tax on a dozen classic cars....and as for the non NCT'd cars out there, ....Truth is , nobody (except you it seems) gives a shyte ....

mountai

Max Headroom wrote: »

:rolleyes:......I'm not defending it , what i'm saying is one untaxed large modern Merc would pay for the tax on a dozen classic cars....and as for the non NCT'd cars out there, ....Truth is , nobody (except you it seems) gives a shyte ....

Yes , lets ignore all the rules and regulations. See where that gets us. Do you tax your vehicles and get them tested as necessary? . If you dont , then you have no grounds for debate. If you do , then why should others be allowed to flout the rules . Are you capable of answering these points logically??.

Baldandold

Just because a kit has a pre 80 plate dose not make it false.

Max Headroom

mountai wrote: »

Yes , lets ignore all the rules and regulations. See where that gets us. Do you tax your vehicles and get them tested as necessary? . If you dont , then you have no grounds for debate. If you do , then why should others be allowed to flout the rules . Are you capable of answering these points logically??.

WOW...that huge chip on your shoulder is pulling you off your high horse....Considering that you imported a kitcar yourself, and started this thread....calm down and get on with your life...

I'm done with this thread now........go away...:)

oceanman

mountai wrote: »

Of course you dont present it. Thats the point. You avoid paying VRT by using the log book of the Spitfire that is already registered here to road tax it. To insure it ---- you give the chassis no , the engine no of the Cobra , with the Reg no of the Spitfire to the Insurance Co and away you go!!!! The VRT man doesnt EVER come into it.

so thats how there are so many cobra V8s driving around irish roads!!

TigerTim

Anyone see the RS200 kit car. It looked fantastic & very close to the real thing.

T,