Conception rates to AI

Buncha Fives

Just wondering what is the general figure for cows that "keep" to first service in suckling? Even with heifers the best we seem to get is 70% whereas in the discussion group some lads reckon that they would be getting 80-90% on cows.

pakalasa

I'd say I'm around 70% aswell. I think if you are spotting those earlier weaker heats after calving, you will have lower conception rates, but with the stronger later heats, you will do better.

Buncha Fives

Sorry for bumping up an old thread...just wondering how people are getting on with conception rates considering that the weather conditions and grass have been so poor this year?

leg wax

Buncha Fives wrote: »

Sorry for bumping up an old thread...just wondering how people are getting on with conception rates considering that the weather conditions and grass have been so poor this year?

its the first year since i have started to farm that i just left in the bull in on the 1 st of may and no ai,heats were very hard to see here so put in the boss.

sonnybill

leg wax wrote: »

its the first year since i have started to farm that i just left in the bull in on the 1 st of may and no ai,heats were very hard to see here so put in the boss.

I've been very lucky this year, 15 pregnancies from 16 straws.. Good ai man though

Farrell

sonnybill wrote: »

I've been very lucky this year, 15 pregnancies from 16 straws.. Good ai man though

It's a good help.
Sadly straw quality can be a factor too, have bought expensive straws that didn't work

yewtree

15 pregnancies from 16 straws is exceptional. Anything close to 60% conception rate to first service is very good. I think the national average figure is 50% conception to first service

tanko

yewtree wrote: »

15 pregnancies from 16 straws is exceptional. Anything close to 60% conception rate to first service is very good. I think the national average figure is 50% conception to first service

Are those figures for dairy cattle?
I'd consider 50 or 60% a complete disaster. For sucklers anything under 80% would be disappointing.

yewtree

tanko wrote: »

Are those figures for dairy cattle?
I'd consider 50 or 60% a complete disaster. For sucklers anything under 80% would be disappointing.

60% conception rate to frist service would leave only 3% of the herd empty are 12 weeks breeding which is exceptional performance, there is Only a tiny miniority of herds achieving that.
Ya dairy figures not involved in suckler industry so don't know what the performance is like, to be honest I would find it hard to believe figures above 60% for any type of herd.

whelan2

We scanned the other day 3 cows not in calf out of 105 scanned, 1 heifer not in calf. I was very surprised. Ai for 5weeks and then let the bull in. Will have no May calvers next year. Didnt do anything different from other years. Luck has alot to do with it

Keepgrowing

yewtree wrote: »

60% conception rate to frist service would leave only 3% of the herd empty are 12 weeks breeding which is exceptional performance, there is Only a tiny miniority of herds achieving that.
Ya dairy figures not involved in suckler industry so don't know what the performance is like, to be honest I would find it hard to believe figures above 60% for any type of herd.

Bang on. People confuse Submission rate with conception rate.
Conception rate to first serve is the number of cows that conceive after 1 heat.
Submission rate is the number of cows submitted to ai.
To achieve a conception rate of 80% to first service you'd need to submit over 100% of your cows, frankly not possible.

What screws figures is the front loading of heifers which can allow you achieve very good 6 week calving rates.

Some guys scan early and quote those figures forgetting that not all pregnancy are viable. These cows may well end up empty after a 12 week breeding period. Some guys don't count these as they earmark them for culling akin to tillage man sowing 20 acres and when harvesting quoting the yield from 18 acres cause headlands were compacted and didn't yield.

Personally I'm delighted with <9% of animals submitted to breeding empty after 12 weeks

Large pinches of salt required.

bogman_bass

tanko wrote: »

Are those figures for dairy cattle?
I'd consider 50 or 60% a complete disaster. For sucklers anything under 80% would be disappointing.

80% conception? only if its immaculate!

tanko

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Bang on. People confuse Submission rate with conception rate.
Conception rate to first serve is the number of cows that conceive after 1 heat.
Submission rate is the number of cows submitted to ai.
To achieve a conception rate of 80% to first service you'd need to submit over 100% of your cows, frankly not possible.

What screws figures is the front loading of heifers which can allow you achieve very good 6 week calving rates.

Some guys scan early and quote those figures forgetting that not all pregnancy are viable. These cows may well end up empty after a 12 week breeding period. Some guys don't count these as they earmark them for culling akin to tillage man sowing 20 acres and when harvesting quoting the yield from 18 acres cause headlands were compacted and didn't yield.

Personally I'm delighted with <9% of animals submitted to breeding empty after 12 weeks

Large pinches of salt required.

Maybe you should read the thread title, where does it mention submission rates or 12 week breeding seasons? I'm saying that if 100 cows are Ai'ed at the correct time that I'd be expecting at least 80 of them to go in calf to that insemination. It's not rocket science.

caseman

tanko wrote: »

Maybe you should read the thread title, where does it mention submission rates or 12 week breeding seasons? I'm saying that if 100 cows are Ai'ed at the correct time that I'd be expecting at least 80 of them to go in calf to that insemination. It's not rocket science.

That would be serious results for first service, i'd say it would be good going to hit 50%

yewtree

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Bang on. People confuse Submission rate with conception rate.
Conception rate to first serve is the number of cows that conceive after 1 heat.
Submission rate is the number of cows submitted to ai.
To achieve a conception rate of 80% to first service you'd need to submit over 100% of your cows, frankly not possible.

What screws figures is the front loading of heifers which can allow you achieve very good 6 week calving rates.

Some guys scan early and quote those figures forgetting that not all pregnancy are viable. These cows may well end up empty after a 12 week breeding period. Some guys don't count these as they earmark them for culling akin to tillage man sowing 20 acres and when harvesting quoting the yield from 18 acres cause headlands were compacted and didn't yield.

Personally I'm delighted with <9% of animals submitted to breeding empty after 12 weeks

Large pinches of salt required.

It's bit like milk recording v coop report easy to inflate your figures if you start excluding cows. I think the six week incalf rate is nearly a better guide than six week calving rate as it excludes the heifers and just looks at the milking herd.
I have improved submission rates over the last years getting entire herd bred in 24-25 days but my conception rates to 1st service are staying around 55%.

J.O. Farmer

tanko wrote: »

Maybe you should read the thread title, where does it mention submission rates or 12 week breeding seasons? I'm saying that if 100 cows are Ai'ed at the correct time that I'd be expecting at least 80 of them to go in calf to that insemination. It's not rocket science.

I think what you're talking about when you say the cow going in calf to an insemination is known as the conception rate it's not rocket science I believe more reproductive biology.
Unless I misunderstood your saying that if you AI the hundred cows once each that 80 of these should go in calf. It does seem like a remarkable success rate. How long do the cows need to remain in calf to count.
You sound a little like a guy I know who's planning to get his wife pregnant in November because it'll suit her to go on maternity 9 months later. His logic is that if they go at it every day for the month she's bound to get pregnant. Most other people don't think it works that way.

tanko

They need to remain in calf for nine months plus. I didn't know it was unusual and remarkable, I can only say what's happening here over the years.

Keepgrowing

tanko wrote: »

Maybe you should read the thread title, where does it mention submission rates or 12 week breeding seasons? I'm saying that if 100 cows are Ai'ed at the correct time that I'd be expecting at least 80 of them to go in calf to that insemination. It's not rocket science.

Sorry for that.
Are you achieving 80% conception to 1st service?

J.O. Farmer

tanko wrote: »

They need to remain in calf for nine months plus. I didn't know it was unusual and remarkable, I can only say what's happening here over the years.

You must have very compact calving. If we assume all cows are cycling at the start of the breeding season 80% of your cows will be in calf after 3 weeks and 96% after 6 weeks and 99% after 9 weeks. This is based on your stated expectation that 80% of cows should go in calf to any AI service.

sonnybill

tanko wrote: »

Are those figures for dairy cattle?
I'd consider 50 or 60% a complete disaster. For sucklers anything under 80% would be disappointing.

No beef sucklers, 13 cows 2 heifers. I operate am pm and have good relationship with AI man but this year exceptional considering as cows were a disaster to show oestrus in hot weather in June there

tanko

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

You must have very compact calving. If we assume all cows are cycling at the start of the breeding season 80% of your cows will be in calf after 3 weeks and 96% after 6 weeks and 99% after 9 weeks. This is based on your stated expectation that 80% of cows should go in calf to any AI service.

It's usually 10-11 weeks for 30 cows and heifers, I wouldn't assume that all cows are cycling at the start of the breeding season.

Keepgrowing

tanko wrote: »

It's usually 10-11 weeks for 30 cows and heifers, I wouldn't assume that all cows are cycling at the start of the breeding season.

You would only have 6 repeats in 11 weeks? That's some going

Lady Haywire

Not dissing on our AI man but a stand in was there for a few days while he was at a wedding. Neither animal held to the stand in guy....So the AI man plays a big part too.

148multi

Calahonda52 wrote:

The man perks up, the doctor says, "You must decide how you want the money spent on getting you fully back in the saddle so to speak.

I worked as an AI man in a previous life, used to get great conception rates on some farms, while very poor on others. One farmer left me and brought in a different AI man, made no difference, he then took my advice and cured the problem. A good AI man will see when things that are not right, be it cow or farmer.

mikeoh

I use all Ai on 25 suckler cows, and have tried every which way possible when it comes to bulling them .......but I have come to the conclusion that best method (for me) is to bull the cow 18 hours after I first see her standing......and properly standing at that not just others rising her....3 repeats this year and to be honest I bulled them on first cycle after calving ...a lot to be said for letting them have 1 day of fun to clean out the pipes!!!

tanko

Keepgrowing wrote: »

You would only have 6 repeats in 11 weeks? That's some going

Yeah, only six repeats this year. Only have half of them scanned so far but I'm pretty sure they're all in calf. Six cows getting the road for various reasons, poor docility, poor fertility, bad feet, calves not good enough etc and have six heifers coming on.
No cows over nine years old here, use easy calving bulls, try to keep replacements off the most fertile cows, get any heifer/cow that had a difficult calving or has a discharge checked/washed out before breeding, give them a few nuts after calving to keep them right, keep a few young bullocks with the cows, find them great for picking up heats. Try to Ai them at the correct time.
It is possible, you don't believe me, that's fair enough. Whether it's worth the time/effort it takes to achieve this is another matter.
I wouldn't be letting the first heat after calving go to waste, it's as fertile a heat as any after it imo.

charolais0153

Our conception rate was 66% to ai and 71% if you include animals bulled by a bull. Does anybody have problems with cows coming bulling too early at circa30days and 'handling big'(that's what my ai man says) these coelws don't come bulling till 6 weeks after or 9 weeks sometimes. Its very frustrating

Mooooo

charolais0153 wrote: »

Our conception rate was 66% to ai and 71% if you include animals bulled by a bull. Does anybody have problems with cows coming bulling too early at circa30days and 'handling big'(that's what my ai man says) these coelws don't come bulling till 6 weeks after or 9 weeks sometimes. Its very frustrating

I assume by handling big ihe means that as 30 days the cervix would not yet have shrunk down after calving so it's like catching a pint glass for some cows. If breeding season has started anything bulling gets served. Some cows hold at first heat others don't but I wouldn't necessarily say it's because of it being the first heat. The ones you miss may well have had silent heats or could have developed a cist anything really

charolais0153

Mooooo wrote: »

I assume by handling big ihe means that as 30 days the cervix would not yet have shrunk down after calving so it's like catching a pint glass for some cows. If breeding season has started anything bulling gets served. Some cows hold at first heat others don't but I wouldn't necessarily say it's because of it being the first heat. The ones you miss may well have had silent heats or could have developed a cist anything really

No they definitely don't come come bulling till about 6 weeks after

Keepgrowing

tanko wrote: »

Yeah, only six repeats this year. Only have half of them scanned so far but I'm pretty sure they're all in calf. Six cows getting the road for various reasons, poor docility, poor fertility, bad feet, calves not good enough etc and have six heifers coming on.
No cows over nine years old here, use easy calving bulls, try to keep replacements off the most fertile cows, get any heifer/cow that had a difficult calving or has a discharge checked/washed out before breeding, give them a few nuts after calving to keep them right, keep a few young bullocks with the cows, find them great for picking up heats. Try to Ai them at the correct time.
It is possible, you don't believe me, that's fair enough. Whether it's worth the time/effort it takes to achieve this is another matter.
I wouldn't be letting the first heat after calving go to waste, it's as fertile a heat as any after it imo.

Super results

What's your calving index, must be 365 or very close.

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

.....
I wouldn't be letting the first heat after calving go to waste, it's as fertile a heat as any after it imo.

I always find the first heat after calving to be a very weak heat. Cows wouldn't show much action.

tanko

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Super results

What's your calving index, must be 365 or very close.

Averages around 370 for the last 5 years.

Jezabelle28

charolais0153 wrote: »

No they definitely don't come come bulling till about 6 weeks after

We have a few cattle at home (just a few pets of cattle to be honest), but have had one come bulling 6 weeks as well. You think you're in the clear when you get past the 3 weeks and then come 6 weeks it's back to the usual! Vet said this cows fertility problem could be a lack of copper, so she is injected with copper and vit E....she is due back around this Thursday so fingers crossed she at least passes the 3 weeks, so frustrating!