4G on irish rail wifi

Dazza

Was using the irish rail wifi the other night and I got these results :
The lowest ping I got was 9ms and the average upload was 20mb. I was just wondering is it 4G?

JustAddWater

Dazza wrote: »

Was using the irish rail wifi the other night and I got these results :
The lowest ping I got was 9ms and the average upload was 20mb. I was just wondering is it 4G?

703Kbps is less than a 1Mb line

Also, 4G is not even licenced in Ireland yet so, no, it's not 4G.

3G most likely

advertsfox

JustAddWater wrote: »

703Kbps is less than a 1meg line

Also, 4G is not even licenced in Ireland yet so, no, it's not 4G.

3G most likely

Something iffy with the result, you certainly don't get 17Mbps upload on 3G either. OP, did you only do one test?

Dazza

Correct screenshot.

JustAddWater

advertsfox wrote: »

Something iffy with the result, you certainly don't get 17Mbps upload on 3G either. OP, did you only do one test?

Oh! I only noticed now, its actually 17,652kbps which is strange!

It's very odd, an anomaly with the speed test maybe?

Dazza

advertsfox wrote: »

Something iffy with the result, you certainly don't get 17Mbps upload on 3G either. OP, did you only do one test?

I did 2.hace them both uploaded. I did others with different servers and got consistent results. I just didn't think 9ms is possible on 3g. The train I tested this on only got the wifi in the last month or so I think.

advertsfox

Dazza wrote: »

Correct screenshot.

There is no way that's any kind of standard 3G network, the ping is so low it could be a fibre connection (I'm getting 11ms to Google on an 8MB DSL line). Did you test it with another source (i.e not Cork)?

Dazza

JustAddWater wrote: »

Oh! I only notice now, its actually 17,652kbps which is strange!

It's very odd, an anomaly with the speed test maybe?

No you're wrong I think. It was 17000kbps which equals 17mb?

advertsfox

Has to be inconsistencies with the Cork server you were testing with, esp. if you said it was normal with other servers.

PS: Wouldn't complain with those speeds on Irish Rail for real though

Dazza

advertsfox wrote: »

There is no way that's any kind of standard 3G network, the ping is so low it could be a fibre connection (I'm getting 11ms to Google on an 8MB DSL line). Did you test it with another source (i.e not Cork)?

I tested UK and got pings around 16. I tested dundalk and got a lower ping (6ms I think).

advertsfox

Dazza wrote: »

I tested UK and got pings around 16. I tested dundalk and got a lower ping (6ms I think).

Definitely something wrong there, the overhead alone (from phone > router > mast > host > 3G mast > router > phone) would be at best, about 40-50ms.

Dazza

advertsfox wrote: »

Definitely something wrong there, the overhead alone (from phone > router > mast > host > 3G mast > router > phone) would be at best, about 40-50ms.

I dunno it seemed fairly consistent. I'll post a screen shot of all the results when im home. I'll be getting the train Friday night again us there a more concrete was of testing the speed?

advertsfox

Dazza wrote: »

I dunno it seemed fairly consistent. I'll post a screen shot of all the results when im home. I'll be getting the train Friday night again us there a more concrete was of testing the speed?

Please do, would love to see more results. I suggest you try alternative speed test applications or websites like http://www.mobilespeedtest.com/

blindsider

JustAddWater wrote: »

703Kbps is less than a 1Mb line

Also, 4G is not even licenced in Ireland yet so, no, it's not 4G.

3G most likely

4G auctions happened last year, and the results were announced in November.

We can expect r/o by Q3 this yr

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/article.php?id=675504

Cheerful Spring

Dazza wrote: »

Was using the irish rail wifi the other night and I got these results :
The lowest ping I got was 9ms and the average upload was 20mb. I was just wondering is it 4G?

Could be, there is an ongoing rollout of 4G since the new year. We'll here officially about it in March or April.

4G provides amazing upload speeds 3G technology is unable to provide great uploads speeds. You probably were near a recently upgraded mast.

Dazza

Here is all the tests I did. They were fairly consistent on the different servers so I assume its not a cork server issue.

long_b

Can confirm ridiculous ping and up speed

http://db.tt/oNKHWVL1

jarvis

Maybe you were driving towards the mast a high speed!!!!! Lol

If you're going again on Friday are you able to try upload something to say, dropbox and then give actual results like 30mb file 10seconds etc???? I have found speedtest sites to be a little crazy sometimes but you can't dispute an actual download/upload.

lotas

It does not need to be either 3 or 4G at all... The train could be using a Wifi or other wireless back haul between stations or other areas. That is probably connected to a fiber connection, so thats how you are managing to get those speeds down.... a 3G connection shared between multiple people in the train wont stand up to that kind of abuse... did it mention who the ISP was? Can you run traceroute on the connection to see where you are getting out to the internet from?

Cheerful Spring

lotas wrote: »

It does not need to be either 3 or 4G at all... The train could be using a Wifi or other wireless back haul between stations or other areas. That is probably connected to a fiber connection, so thats how you are managing to get those speeds down.... a 3G connection shared between multiple people in the train wont stand up to that kind of abuse... did it mention who the ISP was? Can you run traceroute on the connection to see where you are getting out to the internet from?

Highly unlikely a fiber connection. Wifi is connected to a cell (mast) obviously using a 3g phone to run the speeds tests and it was done in cork city right?

Its likely you were picking up 4G Signal.

To pick up 17 meg upload it woulds have to be a 4G frequency, the download speed likely crap because you're phone is not 4G able.

lotas

Ok, lets start shall we?

-> Highly unlikely a fiber connection. <- Why? Fiber is everywhere, and Irish Rail more than likley have some... The train wont be connected directly to the fiber (unless they have LOTS of fiber) but the masts they connect to (and even if it is 3g or 4g) those masts are still fiber...

-> Wifi is connected to a cell (mast) obviously using a 3g phone to run the speeds tests and it was done in cork city right? <- Nope! Thread title mentions Irish Rail WIFI

-> Its likely you were picking up 4G Signal. <- nope... unless he is on a 4G network, he is not on a 4G network... Voda/o2/three wont let any tom dick and harry on their test 4G network without being tested by ComReg, and they sure as hell wont do it for free!

-> To pick up 17 meg upload it woulds have to be a 4G frequency, the download speed likely crap because you're phone is not 4G able. <- back to the animated gif... if you can upload at 4G speeds, you can download at 4G Speeds... If you phone is on a 4G network, you are on a 4G network. If you are on Wifi, you are not on 4G network. 17meg upload is theoretically possible on HSUPA CAT9. HSUPA Details on wiki pedia


A more helpful response, there could be a 4G Trial that Irish Rail is on, but you will still connect to their Wifi network, so any device could get that connection. And that does not explain the low ping results. I though of Channel Bonding multiple 3G connections, but again, latency may be killer here. Some sort of Wireless network (not necessarily Wifi) connecting to the train, and then the train giving out a wifi network has my bet...

Cheerful Spring

lotas wrote: »

Ok, lets start shall we?

-> Highly unlikely a fiber connection. <- Why? Fiber is everywhere, and Irish Rail more than likley have some... The train wont be connected directly to the fiber (unless they have LOTS of fiber) but the masts they connect to (and even if it is 3g or 4g) those masts are still fiber...

-> Wifi is connected to a cell (mast) obviously using a 3g phone to run the speeds tests and it was done in cork city right? <- Nope! Thread title mentions Irish Rail WIFI

-> Its likely you were picking up 4G Signal. <- nope... unless he is on a 4G network, he is not on a 4G network... Voda/o2/three wont let any tom dick and harry on their test 4G network without being tested by ComReg, and they sure as hell wont do it for free!

-> To pick up 17 meg upload it woulds have to be a 4G frequency, the download speed likely crap because you're phone is not 4G able. <- back to the animated gif... if you can upload at 4G speeds, you can download at 4G Speeds... If you phone is on a 4G network, you are on a 4G network. If you are on Wifi, you are not on 4G network. 17meg upload is theoretically possible on HSUPA CAT9. HSUPA Details on wiki pedia


A more helpful response, there could be a 4G Trial that Irish Rail is on, but you will still connect to their Wifi network, so any device could get that connection. And that does not explain the low ping results. I though of Channel Bonding multiple 3G connections, but again, latency may be killer here. Some sort of Wireless network (not necessarily Wifi) connecting to the train, and then the train giving out a wifi network has my bet...

Most of this is meaningless, because if he was using Wifi at Cork rail, he likely one have got much lower upload speed. Fibre tends to be fixed not on the move.

The highest upload customers can avail of currently is with UPC there upload is only 6

I know Eircom had a pilot ip in Dublin with better uploads than that, but thats Dublin

The only explanation is it was 4G network. But i guess a phone call to Irish rail would quickly solve it!!1

lotas

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Most of this is meaningless, because if he was using Wifi at Cork rail, he likely one have got much lower upload speed. Fibre tends to be fixed not on the move.

my wifi connection at home allows a fast upload speed... so, no. if your on wifi, you can usually get a fast upload, IF THE UPSTREAM CONNECTION ALLOWS. and in this case, the upstream if probably fiber... yea, fiber to the train may be hard, but fiber to the station or along the line is not...

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The highest upload customers can avail of currently is with UPC there upload is only 6

Im on UPC... i got 10Mb/s connection. The office has 12.5Mb/s upload, and can max out at 100Mb/s, and we are not on Fiber. Magnet Fiber is 10Mb/s and that for residents...

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I know Eircom had a pilot ip in Dublin with better uploads than that, but thats Dublin

yea, Eircom have a hard time getting that speed down, never mind up...

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The only explanation is it was 4G network.

:eek: WOW! the ONLY explanation?!? Did you forget to read anything i have just wrote? Lets think this out, shall we? I was sitting in my car in the IFSC a couple months back and managed to get a 85Mb/s down, 55Mb/s Up connection... Its NOT because my car has a very fast connection, i was connected to a FAST WIFI HOT SPOT (in this case, the EduRoam connection in the HENET office in the IFSC). I do not instantly think that "Jaysus, 4G Connection!". If i was on the Luas, i don't think "they have 4G". I look at all the facts and work it out.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

But i guess a phone call to Irish rail would quickly solve it!!1

:eek: that may be the first logical thing you may have said...

mikethemouth13

It uses multiple mobile networks

Cheerful Spring

lotas wrote: »

my wifi connection at home allows a fast upload speed... so, no. if your on wifi, you can usually get a fast upload, IF THE UPSTREAM CONNECTION ALLOWS. and in this case, the upstream if probably fiber... yea, fiber to the train may be hard, but fiber to the station or along the line is not...



Im on UPC... i got 10Mb/s connection. The office has 12.5Mb/s upload, and can max out at 100Mb/s, and we are not on Fiber. Magnet Fiber is 10Mb/s and that for residents...

yea, Eircom have a hard time getting that speed down, never mind up...

:eek: WOW! the ONLY explanation?!? Did you forget to read anything i have just wrote? Lets think this out, shall we? I was sitting in my car in the IFSC a couple months back and managed to get a 85Mb/s down, 55Mb/s Up connection... Its NOT because my car has a very fast connection, i was connected to a FAST WIFI HOT SPOT (in this case, the EduRoam connection in the HENET office in the IFSC). I do not instantly think that "Jaysus, 4G Connection!". If i was on the Luas, i don't think "they have 4G". I look at all the facts and work it out.

:eek: that may be the first logical thing you may have said...

The thread was started by someone getting 17upload, with a internet speed test. So even you're only getting 10 upload with UPC that pretty much rules out UPC, with this.

I haven't ruled out fiber either, but with the slow download i have hard time believing he was connecting to a fibre network?

Here is speed test found on this thread https://www.dropbox.com/s/fotvav1xcb8rgvf/Screenshots_2013-02-07-07-12-10.png

Not sure were he did this test, but it clearly shows it was hosted by Eircom.

Eircom owns meteor who likely be rolling out a 4G network in the Irish big city areas.

I take your word you got those very high speeds, but how can i confirm it? in bit of a rush sorry can't reply in a more sufficient manner.

lotas

@mikethemouth13: it wont be satelite... too high a latency...

@Cheerful Spring: the server which is running the speed test is hosted by Eircom. and the part about the download, you do know how network connections work, right? You have a limited amount of connection to multiple people. say, a train, full of people... 10% could be using the internet. 90% of their connections are downloads, the other 10% is upload. If you have a limited connection (say 20Mb/s, since 17 is close enough), and 20 people downloading, your download speed decreeses... depending on how the network is setup, some can limit each connection to a given amount (say 1mb/s) others let you share (one could get the full 20mb, and everyone else suffers). if your upload is the same speed (20Mb/s) and very few are using it, your upload may max out if you run a speed test.

I have 2 cable modems in the house, a 150 and a 100. both have 10mb/s upload. (side note, i never mentioned UPC for their provider, but UPC do provide fiber). Anyway, if machines on the 150mb connection are downloading more than uploading, my speed test shows my upload could be potentially faster than my download... same with the other way round... This sounds like the case here.

The original question was: Could this be 4G. The answer, still, is VERY LIKELY NOT! Still too much latency, still not available, etc.

And speaking of Latency, check the speed test demo at the bottom of the Silicon Republic Article on the 4G Auction, and the upload is no where near 17mb/s

AlmightyCushion

Could it be caching that is responsible for the results?

mikethemouth13

http://www.fleetconnect.ie/solutions-rail.html

Cheerful Spring

mikethemouth13 wrote: »

http://www.fleetconnect.ie/solutions-rail.html

You could be onto something here mate interesting.

drunkmonkey

FleetConnect’s service uses Icomera equipment, which takes a feed from three of the four mobile networks, O2, Three and Vodafone.

Guess were finally seeing what 4G is capable of. Good by DSL, it's been emotional.

AlmightyCushion

drunkmonkey wrote: »

FleetConnect’s service uses Icomera equipment, which takes a feed from three of the four mobile networks, O2, Three and Vodafone.

Guess were finally seeing what 4G is capable of. Good by DSL, it's been emotional.

It'd cost a lot (4 times a standard subscription) and the cap will still be crap.

drunkmonkey

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It'd cost a lot (4 times a standard subscription) and the cap will still be crap.

Mmm, i'm not so sure, We've got 3 incumbents, and one little upstart hell bent on becoming one, let's hope they follow the UK's lead http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/three-wont-charge-extra-for-4g-unlike-ee-50010336/

long_b

Just uploaded a 152 MB video file to Dropbox in seconds.

As a "3G as main broadband" user I'm just about stopping myself from fainting with excitement.

Holy Jebus holy Jebus holy Jebus

lotas

Hmmmm... sounds plausable, but unless there is some channel bonding magic going on, i dont think we have the correct solution... without channel bonding, each connection with hit the maximum speed of a single connection. with it, there is magic done before sending over the wire and then on the server end also... packets are either split before they go over the wire or are round robbined between connections... same with on the way back, but there needs to be either hardware or software on both ends... There is software called Connectify Dispatch which does some of these, but without the server, some of the uploads and downloads will still hit limits...

ED E

Was wondering about this earlier today, just did some tests there. Pings are to manchester...Id say the down results are heavily QoSd and that's why theyrr always so low, a very inflexible load balancer.

What prompted me to think about it was that I saw some strange antenna at a few of the stations. Along with the usual cell units and microwave drums were these pairs of long horizontal antenna, each looking sort of elongated thimble. A dark grey metallic colour. Could these be responsible, they were all parallel to the tracks?

funnyname

long_b wrote: »

Just uploaded a 152 MB video file to Dropbox in seconds.

As a "3G as main broadband" user I'm just about stopping myself from fainting with excitement.

Holy Jebus holy Jebus holy Jebus

I've been using it the last few weeks (Galway to Dublin route) to a bit of work on my commute and it's useless for logging onto the office network.

ED E

funnyname wrote: »

I've been using it the last few weeks (Galway to Dublin route) to a bit of work on my commute and it's useless for logging onto the office network.

VPN? It'd be far too unstable for that.

Mantel

funnyname wrote: »

I've been using it the last few weeks (Galway to Dublin route) to a bit of work on my commute and it's useless for logging onto the office network.

I've started commuting on the same route and the connection has been useless in general, in the past two weeks I barely been able to load a webpage. I ran a continuous ping and perhaps 2 out of every 10 got through. It'd be handy to have on the commute but not vital for me although I wouldn't use it unless I could connect via VPN.