Education advice?

Choochacha

Hi
We are not from Ireland, but have lived here for the last 6 years. I find that my kids are receiving an excellent education here - but - I have one bugbear, and it's Irish (as a language subject).
My kids are all very intelligent and are currently in NS. The thing is I would like them to drop Irish language as a subject as I feel it is frankly pointless. I appreciate that the good people of Ireland wish to keep the language from dying, but I dont want my kids to waste their time studying it. I feel it has no value outside the Island of Ireland. The school have told me they would be reluctant to allow our kids to drop Irish at this stage. They explained that if they have no educational special needs, and are doing fine with Irish, there is no justification.
I'm trying to decide where to go from here. Does anyone know if, after leaving NS they can study an alternative language and still get the same junior and leaving cert points? Or do they just lose the points value of Irish - and are not able to make up the points by taking another subject in its place.
Many thanks

CathalRyano

By NS, do you mean National School? If so, I can tell you that if you manage to drop Irish for Secondary School, it will not affect your child's points gained in the Leaving Certificate and it will have no effect on the Junior Certificate either. The Leaving Certificate takes your best 6 subjects and those are the only ones that effect your child's points. If your child drops Irish and still is doing 6 or more subjects, it will have no effect whatsoever.

From what I know, you may only get an excemption from Irish if, 1) You have a learning disability or 2) Your child moved to Ireland after the age of 12. However, I would suggest you take it up with the Secondary School you intend your children to go to, explaining your case and why you would rather not have them do Irish. From there, hopefully they might be able to give your children some sort of exemption from Irish, however I am not sure if they will allow it.
Good luck, I certainly agree Irish should not be compulsory for families who choose not to do it.

Choochacha

Thanks so much for your reply. Yes, I did mean National School. I'm going to go into their next school and discuss things with the head teacher before I decide if I will send them there. It would be interesting to know if anyone has managed to drop Irish, when they do not qualify to do so for the two reasons you have identified?

Little Miss Confused

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/ppc10_94.pdf

Above is a link to the Dept of Education circular regarding Irish exemptions.

The only way your children can get an Irish exemption is if they came to Ireland of school-going age (over the age of 4/5) without English. Otherwise, Irish is compulsory for them.

If they do not qualify for an exemption and do not sit the Junior or Leaving Cert exam in Irish then they will not meet entry requirements for some university or colleges.

It is not as simple as not doing the paper. The school will not grant an exemption on request.

eyescreamcone

Most people born outside the ROI tend to get exemptions

Choochacha

I want them to be exempt from Irish, but I don't want them to be "labled" because of it. I think I will probably send them to university in the UK, rather than in Ireland. I really think it is unfair to make them take Irish. I appreciate they don't want the language to die, but very few people bother to speak it again after leaving school.

Bazinga_N

Just wondering. Why is it unfair? If I went to school in Poland or France or wherever, I'd be expected to learn French or Polish if I had been there for some time. If your children are able for it, they might as well do it. You'd be surprised how many Irish people are awful at Irish, so you're kids are lucky if they're good at it. It's not the hardest thing to learn. Most kids know very little Irish before Secondary School anyways. I always thought that if you lived here before a certain age you had to take it?

thesimpsons

why not let them continue with the subject on the basis that any learning is of benefit to the brain and other study. As a muscle the brain benefits from continued and varied exercise same as any other body muscle does. Many people never use subjects or modules of subjects once they leave school, I could name off loads of subject areas which I've never ever used but do appreciate the learning. It is closing off alot of colleges in Ireland if you give up Irish, and while you might want them to go to college overseas, your kids might want to stay here when they get to that age. my daughter goes to a Coláiste (secondary school through Irish) and one of the brightest girls in her class only came to Ireland at 10 when she picked up the language from zero and now at 14 is studying all subjects through Irish

spurious

Most of the honours Irish class in our school were not born here.

CathalRyano

Bazinga_N wrote: »

Just wondering. Why is it unfair? If I went to school in Poland or France or wherever, I'd be expected to learn French or Polish if I had been there for some time. If your children are able for it, they might as well do it. You'd be surprised how many Irish people are awful at Irish, so you're kids are lucky if they're good at it. It's not the hardest thing to learn. Most kids know very little Irish before Secondary School anyways. I always thought that if you lived here before a certain age you had to take it?

You would be expected to learn French or Polish as that is the language that those people communicate in, similar to how they are required to learn English here in Ireland. He is asking for an exemption from a subject that the majority of us do not communicate in. It's different. He does not feel Irish is of any benefit to his children and I believe that he has the right to decide this.

Bazinga_N

CathalRyano wrote: »

You would be expected to learn French or Polish as that is the language that those people communicate in, similar to how they are required to learn English here in Ireland. He is asking for an exemption from a subject that the majority of us do not communicate in. It's different. He does not feel Irish is of any benefit to his children and I believe that he has the right to decide this.

French and Polish are France and Poland's national languages. Irish is our national language, it's really not that different. Maybe every Irish person doesn't speak Irish everyday, it's still an extremely important part of Irish culture. I personally find it quite rude that someone moves into Ireland for some reason or another and decides not to bother learning our national language. Should they be exempt for learning the Irish parts of the History course as well? Sure that's not beneficial to them? :rolleyes:

eyescreamcone

Bazinga_N wrote: »

French and Polish are France and Poland's national languages. Irish is our national language, it's really not that different. Maybe every Irish person doesn't speak Irish everyday, it's still an extremely important part of Irish culture. I personally find it quite rude that someone moves into Ireland for some reason or another and decides not to bother learning our national language. Should they be exempt for learning the Irish parts of the History course as well? Sure that's not beneficial to them? :rolleyes:

Get off your high horse please!
If somebody doesn't want to learn a particular subject they should just learn something else. Irish shouldn't be compulsary for the LC anyway, in my opinion.
It's nothing like learning French or Polish in those respective countries.

Bazinga_N

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Get off your high horse please!
If somebody doesn't want to learn a particular subject they should just learn something else. Irish shouldn't be compulsary for the LC anyway, in my opinion.
It's nothing like learning French or Polish in those respective countries.

I'm quoting a different poster on boards, who summed the whole should Irish debate up perfectly, in my opinion.

You could make a point about many subjects being "of little to no benefit to most students, and that most will forget about anyway?" History, Geography, English, Art, Music could possibly be considered as such. Education shouldn't be something exclusively driven towards getting a job. It's important that we educate our citizens in a rounded way and seeing as the Irish language plays a large role in our cultural heritage, I wouldn't consider its teaching as useless.

It's our culture. It's not that hard of a language to learn. It's quite beautiful when spoken fluently.

I'm going to drop out of this argument now because frankly it's getting too off-topic.

JDOC1996

If your children are doing fine in it, why do you want them to drop it? It would be very idiotic make them drop it this early, maybe in a few years if they're having problems with it.

eyescreamcone

Bazinga_N wrote: »

I'm quoting a different poster on boards, who summed the whole should Irish debate up perfectly, in my opinion.



It's our culture. It's not that hard of a language to learn. It's quite beautiful when spoken fluently.

I'm going to drop out of this argument now because frankly it's getting too off-topic.

Everybody should have a choice.
Take the compulsion away and you will get people who WANT to learn the language.

It's been forced down people's throats with very poor results for decades.
Not too many fluent speakers around.
I'm all for culture - but without the compulsion please.

People will learn better if they are interested in a subject - so let them pick subjects they are interested in.

As for the OP - if you want the exemption I hope you get it.

Choochacha

It is totally different really. If we lived in France, people would be speaking French all the time. English is the language spoken by most people in Ireland. Very few people continue with Irish when they have finished education here. All families are different, and I feel given our individual circumstances the study of Irish will be a waste of valued school time for my kids. French also has a value / use outside of France - Irish does not. Irish does sound beautiful when spoken properly, but you should be given the choice to study it in secondary school. History is a totally different subject!

spurious

An exemption from Irish, should you get one for your children, will not mean they do not attend the Irish classes, it just means they won't have to do the exam.
Schools can't afford teachers to supervise two or three children during Irish classes.

Anyway, asked and answered. Thread clsoed.