75% equine DNA found in meat products that had been sent from Poland

admiralofthefleet

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Sure it won't do anyone any harm anyway, was watching some young fella on Sky News whinging about it and you would swear he was after eating rusty nails the way he was going on.

thats not the issue though, its the fact that food's were labeled as 'beef lasagne' but actually had horse in them

C.K Dexter Haven

This whole debacle just shows the sort of crap ready meals are made of and even though there are clear guidelines around labelling of food, even the more respected brands such as Findus do not have proper internal controls in place.

Findus? More like Find-Us-Out!

C.K Dexter Haven

goat2 wrote: »

at last people are staying local,
support local,
the local man pays , buys from local farms, his taxes employs local and live local, so he gives and he gets, money was made round to go round.

it may be the best thing to happen our economy in the past four yrs, people were all into buying fast foods,
but fast foods have now proven to be foods from fast animals,

I really hope so. But these stories tend to be forgotten after a while and consumers revert to old habits.

M cebee

i'd have the rusty nails anyday

i always thought big macs were ok-are they any better than the rest of this garbage?

and what about the EU?
all this fuss about straight bananas and the like and this slips under the radar!

Shenshen

What I'm finding utterly weird about that is that horse meat is on average at least twice as expensive as beef... Who in their right mind would mix that in with cheap beef?

That said, the husband and myself had to check 3 different Tescos last week to find one that still had some of their own-brand veggie burgers left.
Would it have killed you omnivores out there to buy mince and make your own burgers if you have a problem with the ready-made ones?

M cebee

Shenshen wrote: »

What I'm finding utterly weird about that is that horse meat is on average at least twice as expensive as beef... Who in their right mind would mix that in with cheap beef?

That said, the husband and myself had to check 3 different Tescos last week to find one that still had some of their own-brand veggie burgers left.
Would it have killed you omnivores out there to buy mince and make your own burgers if you have a problem with the ready-made ones?

no
it's a fraction of the price of beef and pork wholeasale
thats why it's in there with the other rubbish

wolfpawnat

I find it cheeky that after they were told the week before their product was not up to scratch, they send more like it over, surely they were not so naive to think we wouldn't be keeping a closer eye on their product. I can see why the Head of Food and Agriculture Department of UCD is saying that we should only support products we can guarantee, which does mean supporting Irish.

I make my burgers myself, I like knowing what I am eating. I have eaten horse before, but I was under no allusion it was something it wasn't. I will try most foods once I know what they are.

Butcher's are more costly, they haven't got the same buying power as a large supermarket chain so they are charged more by the abattoirs, if I had more money I would go to them, but sadly I don't. I trust very little pre-made food/meals, have you ever seen the ingredients list, more E's than a rave!!!! I buy meat from the butcher part of Tesco's or pre-packed, but that's as far as I'll go. I'll cook from there myself.

Shenshen

M cebee wrote: »

no
it's a fraction of the price of beef and pork wholeasale
thats why it's in there with the other rubbish

Quick google only brought up prices in France and the US, which in both cases are pretty much twice the price of beef.

Considering the numbers of cows vs number of horses raised, the price simply reflects the availability.

M cebee

Shenshen wrote: »

Quick google only brought up prices in France and the US, which in both cases are pretty much twice the price of beef.

Considering the numbers of cows vs number of horses raised, the price simply reflects the availability.

dunno what you mean
the horsemeat is in there cos it's a lot cheaper
i think the figures i seen quoted per tonne were roughly
horse 700€
pork 2500€
beef 4500€
from memory on rte news so i might be a bit out

it's economics and rogue traders

Shenshen

M cebee wrote: »

dunno what you mean
the horsemeat is in there cos it's a lot cheaper
i think the figures i seen quoted per tonne were roughly
horse 700€
pork 2500€
beef 4500€
from memory on rte news so i might be a bit out

it's economics and rogue traders

What I mean is, for it to be cheaper, there needs to be a bigger supply of it than beef - which comparing the number of horses in Europe to the number of cattle, there isn't, as well as less demand for it - which, considering it's regarded a delicacy in many countries, there isn't either.

And as I said, googling prices for it showed it at around twice the price of beef.

greenheart

Shenshen wrote: »

What I mean is, for it to be cheaper, there needs to be a bigger supply of it than beef - which comparing the number of horses in Europe to the number of cattle, there isn't, as well as less demand for it - which, considering it's regarded a delicacy in many countries, there isn't either.

And as I said, googling prices for it showed it at around twice the price of beef.

I read somewhere that it's mostly wild Romanian horses. Polish gangs are bribing food inspectors to sign off on the horse meat as beef.

ScumLord

Pottler wrote: »

A Ranch. Seemingly.

I for one am dying to see a properly labeled "Mustang Burger" to see if people are really that bothered.

"It's a horse of a burger" could be the strapline.

If someone has a bit of marketing savy they would release the burgers, even for a short time they might sell well. No bodies been upset by the fact it's horse just the fact the wrong meat was used. So all the market research has been done by the reporters on the street, Ireland's ready for horse meat.

goat2 wrote: »

there is only one answer, support the small butcher shop in the cormer, the owner is always there,

You shouldn't assume that either. I know some butchers get their meat from the same suppliers as the supermarkets.

shedweller wrote: »

Agreed.


Unfortunately a lot of people are stretched financially so they cannot afford to buy all their meat from the butchers. On balance, said people could cut down on junk food, booze, uber sky packages etc. and be well able to afford to eat healthy. Junk food is simply too cheap.

I don't really accept that. If your living alone it can be more convenient to eat prepared foods but if your feeding more than 34 people it's much cheaper to buy the quality foods and prepare a big meal.

When all this is sorted I hope it's acknowledged that Ireland wasn't at fault here and that the only reason it came to light was because Ireland dipped it's toes into the European meat market and that European meat came under the scrutiny of Irish food standards.

goat2

when we buy meat there is a food trace number on it,
can i go and trace it from farm to fork with this,
on it says
country of origin; irl
reference no,
slaughtered in irl 290 ec
cut in irl 329 eec

how can i go about tracing it,
as i would like to know if the consumer can find out where what they eat come from

Galwayguy35

goat2 wrote: »

to be honest,
i would rather eat rusty nails,
at least i know i am having rust and rust only.

than take my chances with the foods that now mentioned as contaminated

Tests are being done on that at the moment but realistically the chances of the meat being contaminated are remote, thankfully.

I regularly eat venison that is given to me by my brother who gets it from the hunters he allows shoot on his land, there is probably more risk eating this than the horse meat IMO.

Galwayguy35

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

thats not the issue though, its the fact that food's were labeled as 'beef lasagne' but actually had horse in them

Agreed, it shouldn't have happened.

Shenshen

greenheart wrote: »

I read somewhere that it's mostly wild Romanian horses. Polish gangs are bribing food inspectors to sign off on the horse meat as beef.

And this is what I just don't get :

Why spend money on bribes, when you can sell the horse meat as horse meat at twice the price to places like Italy, France, Germany or Hungary?

C.K Dexter Haven

Horse meat sells for in or around 800 Eur per ton- beef @ 3,500 per ton- so a very obvious fraud risk. I think part of the risk assessment carried out by the Irish Food Authorities included the monitoring of horse slaughters which apparently was on the increase.

M cebee

hmm?

why is this horsemeat a lot cheaper by the tonne than beef and pork?

-hence it's smuggled into beefburgers by rogues

but apparently at the same time horsemeat is also an expensive delicacy?

Shenshen

M cebee wrote: »

hmm?

why is this horsemeat a lot cheaper by the tonne than beef and pork?

-hence it's smuggled into beefburgers by rogues

but apparently at the same time horsemeat is also an expensive delicacy?

My question exactly.
To buy horse meat in France and Germany, you would pay at least twice what you pay for beef.
It doesn't make sense.

C.K Dexter Haven

M cebee wrote: »

hmm?


but apparently at the same time horsemeat is also an expensive delicacy?

Assuming, and it's a big assumption, that the horse meat used was designed for human consumption in the first place. Horses going to the slaughter house aren't usually regulated and monitored to the degree they need to be if they're destained for human consumption.
There was a risk in the latest Findus scare, that a drug not fit for human consumption was potentially in the horsemeat.

This horse meat certainly costs a lot less than beef.

Happyman42

Shenshen wrote: »

My question exactly.
To buy horse meat in France and Germany, you would pay at least twice what you pay for beef.
It doesn't make sense.

Just like the beef in cheapo burgers, it isn't the prime cuts that are being used.

Shenshen

Happyman42 wrote: »

Just like the beef in cheapo burgers, it isn't the prime cuts that are being used.

I'm sure horse salami and other sausages aren't made from the prime cuts, either....
It's a bit of a weird scam, if you have dodgy horse, why would you try and sell it as 3rd rate beef rather than sell it as 3rd rate horse?

dzer2

Shenshen wrote: »

My question exactly.
To buy horse meat in France and Germany, you would pay at least twice what you pay for beef.
It doesn't make sense.

Yeah horse meat that is produces for human consumption is highly regulated and the expensive Nag meat for dog food is cheap when its slaughtered its very hard to determine which is for dog food and which is for human consumption.:(

wolfpawnat

I spoke to my partner about this, he is in the final year and a bit of veterinary and they are studying about horses for meat production recently (ironic timing) He was explaining that to be fit for sale to France, the largest buyer of our horse meat (surprise surprise) horses must be of the highest standard. They are only allowed have the most basic vaccinations against diseases as is permitted with beef, pork and sheep, and a full vaccination history is essential. If there is one vaccine on their card that is not on a safety list, the horse will not be sent to the abattoir.

The horses in the Findus scandal were from Luxembourg they were told, so clearly their standards are not as high as ours or someone is dealing in dodgy cheaper meat.

C.K Dexter Haven

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm sure horse salami and other sausages aren't made from the prime cuts, either....
It's a bit of a weird scam, if you have dodgy horse, why would you try and sell it as 3rd rate beef rather than sell it as 3rd rate horse?

Who said it was sold as 3rd rate beef?

Like I said, you're assuming that this meat was subject to compliant procedures and that the grade of meat was up to standard- which is not the case- this story will explain it in more detail-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276403/Italian-Polish-mafia-gangs-blamed-horsemeat-scandal-government-warns-MORE-British-products-contaminated.html#axzz2KSgFz4aE

Run_to_da_hills

"French Consumer Affairs Minister Benoit Hamon said in Le Parisien newspaper that the apparent fraud had generated profits of 300,000 euros and may have been going on since August".

I would say add an extra couple of zero's on to that figure. If Horse Meat retails at €700 a tonne as opposed to beef at €3000+ go figure.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/10/france-food-horsemeat-idUSL1N0BA1M620130210

Pottler

I reading one of the more highbrow papers today(ok, it was the Star)while I waited for my Chinese Takeaway, and there was an article stating that in the UK many Butchers are selling Horsemeat "under the counter" to regular customers, a horsemeat fillet steak is €1.50 apparently so there are plenty who will buy it.

"tastes like a cross between beef and vension", the article said. Symptom of the general recession and skintedness, people want food, but they need to be getting it cheap. Hence the market. Seems it can't be sold legally/openly there as it's not pased as fit for human consumption....

crusher000

The horses that were slaughtered and entered these products weren't even fit for dog food, hence the were cheaper than your bred for human consumption meat. Also there was no tracibilty on these animals either so god knows waht the have been injected with etc. I have a horse and his passport is stamped "Not fit for human consumption"

squod

wolfpawnat wrote: »

He was explaining that to be fit for sale to France,

France is notoriously hard on importers due to labour union laws. Over regulation helps French companies compete in the market.

shedweller

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I spoke to my partner about this, he is in the final year and a bit of veterinary and they are studying about horses for meat production recently (ironic timing) He was explaining that to be fit for sale to France, the largest buyer of our horse meat (surprise surprise) horses must be of the highest standard. They are only allowed have the most basic vaccinations against diseases as is permitted with beef, pork and sheep, and a full vaccination history is essential. If there is one vaccine on their card that is not on a safety list, the horse will not be sent to the abattoir.

The horses in the Findus scandal were from Luxembourg they were told, so clearly their standards are not as high as ours or someone is dealing in dodgy cheaper meat.

crusher000 wrote: »

The horses that were slaughtered and entered these products weren't even fit for dog food, hence the were cheaper than your bred for human consumption meat. Also there was no tracibilty on these animals either so god knows waht the have been injected with etc. I have a horse and his passport is stamped "Not fit for human consumption"

I have heard (i know, i know) that race horses must never enter the food chain due to the range of antibiotics etc they take over the course of their lives. For a horse to enter thr food chain it must never have been a race horse and there must be paperwork to go with said horse.
Is this true and will we ever see the paperwork for all the horses that entered our food chain?
I did a quick look and found this:http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/Food_and_Chemical_Toxicology_FINAL.pdf

Sixty-seven million pounds of horsemeat derived from American horses were sent abroad for human consumption
last year. Horses are not raised as food animals in the United States and, mechanisms to ensure
the removal of horses treated with banned substances from the food chain are inadequate at best. Phenylbutazone
(PBZ) is the most commonly used non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) in equine
practice. Thoroughbred (TB) race horses like other horse breeds are slaughtered for human consumption.
Phenylbutazone is banned for use in any animal intended for human consumption because it causes serious
and lethal idiosyncratic adverse effects in humans. The number of horses that have received phenylbutazone
prior to being sent to slaughter for human consumption is unknown but its presence in some is
highly likely. We identified eighteen TB race horses that were given PBZ on race day and sent for intended
slaughter by matching their registered name to their race track drug record over a five year period. Sixteen
rescued TB race horses were given PBZ on race day. Thus, PBZ residues may be present in some
horsemeat derived from American horses. The permissive allowance of such horsemeat used for human
consumption poses a serious public health risk.

Another link from a few years ago:http://www.horsewelfare.ca/news/102-new-eu-rules-may-end-slaughter-of-american-horses

New EU rules may end slaughter of American Horses
Monday, 03 August 2009 17:00
E-mail Print

August 4, CHICAGO, (EWA) ... The European Union (EU) and Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) have announced that the rules on slaughtering horses for human consumption are about to change radically due to concerns regarding contaminated horse meat.

The new EU rules will become effective in April 2010, requiring that either slaughtered animals have complete health records showing they have not received banned substances or a 180 day quarantine for the horses. Claude Boissonnealut, head of the CFIAs red meat programs, has indicated that Canada will likely abide by the 180 day quarantine, as mandated by the EU.

Equine welfare advocates have warned of the contamination of American horse meat for years. Substances banned from food animals range from toxic wormers to phenylbutazone (PBZ), the 'aspirin' of the horse world, and even include fertility drugs that can cause miscarriages in women. 'PBZ is a known carcinogen and can cause aplastic anemia (bone marrow suppression) in humans', says Equine Welfare Alliance (EWA) member Dr. Ann Marini, MD/Ph.D, Professor of Neurology at Uniform Services University of the Health Sciences.

The new rules will mean that horses coming from auctions and other sources in the US will have to be kept drug free on a feedlot for half a year. Producers estimate that feeding horses that long will more than double their cost, making them less competitive with horses from other sources. And that is likely to be only half their problem.

EWA member Christy Sheidy, of Another Chance 4 Horses, routinely rescues slaughter bound horses from Pennsylvania's New Holland auction. Sheidy warns, 'Outbreaks of diseases like strangles and shipping fever will be inevitable in these quarantine feedlots. Left untreated, many horses may die before they can be slaughtered.' Treating the horses would restart their quarantine time.

So there's a big incentive to not bother with any of that and falsify documentation. Sure who'll notice? Who will even care, as can be seen from some posters here and elsewhere, who would eat anything as long as it's tasty.