PE on the Junior Cert

RandomName2

Hot on the heels of government plans to remove standard written examination as the mainstay of the Junior Cert (and replace it with personal teacher based continual assessment) comes the genius idea to have Physical Education an examinable ... graded subject.

Well, what's wrong with this? There are other subjects of flimsy academic significance - and the JC is an empty examination in terms of entry into third level.

What's wrong with it is that time will have to be taken from other relevant subjects. But much worse is plans to introduce it in the senior cycle.

Sure, some of our kids will like the idea. I dare say a good many would like Battlefield 3, Skyrim, and Mass Effect 3 to be examinable as well, or any other extra-curricular activity.

Actual A level exam question (worth 15% of the entire paper)

a) Play is considered to be a valuable activity for children.
(i) What are the characteristics of play? [4]
(ii) How do young children benefit from play? [3]
[...]
Describe how a community could benefit from sport and recreation provision. [7]

Marking scheme for the above question on community benefits:

7 marks in total:
1 lowering crime rate
2 social control/involvement of individuals in worthwhile activity
3 improve health and fitness of the community
4 reduce cost of health care
5 improve pride in community/image
6 improve integration/races
7 acquire physical skills
8 produce more elite performers
9 provide employment/more income
10 happiness/mental fitness
11 creating/improving/infrastructure

I know we bitch and moan about our education system - but do we really want this sort of dross? The standard of education in 2nd level is actually quite high - a great deal higher than that exhibited in primary education (the lack of state exams both contributes to, and hides the problem to a great extent). The government has enough troubles on its hands without introducing plans to water down a solid (albeit imperfect) system.

woodoo

Good idea to have it examinable at junior cert level. We need healthy children growing up to be healthy adults.

Physical Education should incorporate education on a healthy body, lifestyle, food intake, sport etc.

RandomName2

woodoo wrote: »

Good idea to have it examinable at junior cert level. We need health [sic] children growing up to be healthy adults.

Physical Education should incorporate education on a health body, lifestyle, food intake, sport etc.

But why examinable? :pac:

The latter is addressed as a hard subject in Science (namely Biology). It is also addressed is a less academic (and arguably more practical sense) in home economics.

All this does is debase our education standards.

I know! Let's have the "non-smoking" subject in leaving Cert. "Question 1: describe your feelings about not smoking." It may be crap, but it encourages healthinization and that can only be a good thing!

tvnutz

RandomName2 wrote: »

But why examinable? :pac:

Because kids won't do PE or take it seriously. If it is an exam,they will have to do it and try hard at it. There are some kids in my school that refuse to do PE,mostly the girls, if the school try to enforce it the kid's parents usually give them a note to excuse them because they don't want to do a bit of exercise.

RandomName2

tvnutz wrote: »

Because kids won't do PE or take it seriously. If it is an exam,they will have to do it and try hard at it. There are some kids in my school that refuse to do PE,mostly the girls, if the school try to enforce it the kid's parents usually give them a note to excuse them because they don't want to do a bit of exercise.

So when it's compulsory it won't be taken up... so we'll instead hand out free points if people do a doss-subject? (By doss I don't mean one involving working with the Windows Command terminal)

In 2nd level I stopped doing PE and taking it seriously, before later taking up sport again when I was in third level. And..?

Anita Blow

Only way I'd be up for it being included as an examinable subject is if it incorporated a good deal of theory.
None of the bottom of the barrel stuff that they learn in the A-levels, but actual science, such as exercise physiology and maybe some biomechanics too. Stuff relevant to physical activity and health that isn't already covered in the Biology course.

RandomName2

Anita Blow wrote: »

Only way I'd be up for it being included as an examinable subject is if it incorporated a good deal of theory.
None of the bottom of the barrel stuff that they learn in the A-levels, but actual science, such as exercise physiology and maybe some biomechanics too. Stuff relevant to physical activity and health that isn't already covered in the Biology course.

Maybe just slightly increase the scope of the Biology syllabus?

It's hard to get into an analysis of exercise without looking at metabolism, Mitochondrion energy conversion, the Krebs cycle, respiration, and associated nutrition. When looking at nutrition is is hard not to look at the categorisation of food into proteins, sugars, fats, etc, and the molecular breakdown of each.

No, if there is a PE subject, as planned, it will be A-level like "How does perception affect the learning and performance of physical activities?" (actual exam question).

woodoo

RandomName2 wrote: »

So when it's compulsory it won't be taken up... so we'll instead hand out free points if people do a doss-subject? (By doss I don't mean one involving working with the Windows Command terminal)

In 2nd level I stopped doing PE and taking it seriously, before later taking up sport again when I was in third level. And..?

Nobody is saying to do it foe the leaving cert. It is a good idea as far as junior cert.

Anita Blow

RandomName2 wrote: »

Maybe just slightly increase the scope of the Biology syllabus?

It's hard to get into an analysis of exercise without looking at metabolism, Mitochondrion energy conversion, the Krebs cycle, respiration, and associated nutrition. When looking at nutrition is is hard not to look at the categorisation of food into proteins, sugars, fats, etc, and the molecular breakdown of each.

No, if there is a PE subject, as planned, it will be A-level like "How does perception affect the learning and performance of physical activities?" (actual exam question).

Don't think the Biology syllabus could be increased any further. Only sat the LC 2 years ago and Biology is a fairly big course.
The current Biology course already covers much of what you've mentioned so there would be enough there I'd think to look at exercise physiology.
I do agree with you though. If it's like the A-levels then god help us

lazygal

I hated PE, mainly because at primary level it involved GAA sports and at secondary level basketball. I'm not sporty and hated every single time I was picked last or wasted another class on the subs bench. However, I did a lot of physical activity outside school, namely, dance classes three times a week. So I was getting plenty of physical activity, it was at my parents' expense and in my own time. I know things have moved on a bit in Irish schools but its still the case that a lot of secondary schools are 'GAA schools' or 'rugby schools' or 'hockey schools' and if that doesn't suit other pupils, they are left out and pretty much not educated, in a way that doesn't seem to happen in other subjects.

Jijsaw

lazygal wrote: »

I hated PE, mainly because at primary level it involved GAA sports and at secondary level basketball. I'm not sporty and hated every single time I was picked last or wasted another class on the subs bench. However, I did a lot of physical activity outside school, namely, dance classes three times a week. So I was getting plenty of physical activity, it was at my parents' expense and in my own time. I know things have moved on a bit in Irish schools but its still the case that a lot of secondary schools are 'GAA schools' or 'rugby schools' or 'hockey schools' and if that doesn't suit other pupils, they are left out and pretty much not educated, in a way that doesn't seem to happen in other subjects.

Thats the same as me. I was never interested in Gaelic, hockey, rugby, basketball etc. So I used to lark about listening to music/not doing any sports. Thats not to say I wasn't active, I still went to ballet and jazz classes outside of school and got exercise there, if PE was introduced as a compulsory JC subject I'd probably fail

RandomName2

woodoo wrote: »

Nobody is saying to do it foe the leaving cert. It is a good idea as far as junior cert.

It would only be introduced as a junior cert subject to make way for its introduction in the senior cycle. It would be compulsory at junior cert and optional at leaving cert - although PE would still prbably be mandatory regardless of whether one was taking it at leaving cert.

Ultimately if introduced will result in a large uptake. Despite being pilloried for its academic irrelevance (like .. um.. Transition Year), the combination of intransigence, the feeling that its inclusion encourages health and well-being, and the knowledge from students that free points would be up for grabs would mean it would stay.

The fact is that it would just debase the system; reduce time spent on proper subjects, reduce the extra-curricular aspect of sports, and inflate the CAO points. :pac:

SupaNova2

Nutrition and Health can be covered in a couple of weeks as part of a Science curriculum, making 6 years of fluff surrounding what could be a complete in a few weeks is just stupid. And if participation in physical activities is part of the score while parents excuse their kids, what then? Fail them? Force 3rd level institutions to reject anyone who fails PE?

Surely there is a better way to promote health and exercise without wide-scale threat and coercion?

laoch na mona

maybe they should introduce a mandatory fitness test to be taken when results come out or whenever and if you don't pass your exam results don't count. it shouldn't be a subject you get points or a grade for but you should be penalised for failing in other words punished for not being fit but then you have to look at what the canteen in the school sells if that's not all healthy then the school is being hypocritical same if the teachers aren't all in reasonable shape

Anita Blow

It could be introduced in a way similar to LCVP. IE- Make it worth 70 points and make the marking scheme very hard so it doesn't become an easy 70 points

ThreeLineWhip

I never did PE when I was in school. I never wanted to do it, my parents gave me a note and I got to go home early every Wednesday. The school did not care.

I really don't see how it could be made compulsory. Too many people would claim exemptions and it would infringe on students rights.

Taco Chips

Nutrition, health and exercise is already covered at Junior Cert level under the SPHE curriculum. Most PE teachers I knew also made a point of talking about it to all their classes at all levels because it's a point that deserves to be reiterated. But I don't see any reason why PE should be made examinable.

zcorpian88

Hated PE in school, In primary it was mainly hurling and I feckin hated it, spent an hour every Thursday being shouted at by some middle aged culchie teacher, only to come home with cuts, bruises, lumps to the head from the school not having helmets, was mostly picked last too because most of the people in the class played for teams outside of school, lets face it, nobody passes the ball to anyone that isn't on the extracurricular teams.

Same thing for PE in secondary, most of the time it was football though, hated that too, stupid sport for pussies, Whenever they get tapped they fall over like they got a bullet to the kneecap or something. I often dossed PE, either went to the library and studied or spent an extra hour in bed or took an early lunch depending when it was on. The school didn't give a toss anyway considering I was one of the few that did study and show up for classes compared to the other wasters I had to share classes with.

I cycled whenever I wasn't in school, great way of keeping fit.

You're in school to learn, not to play with your balls!