Removed Clamp

Pistolpete1

Hi

Just looking for some advise here.

I was clamped in my work car park. Private car park. Lets say i didnt park in one of the offical spots but everyone else does it. For example if two cars can fit in the one spot i try squeeze in beside them. Its common practive where i work. WE dont block anyone in or cause any problems. But yes i know we offically shouldnt do it and i was wrong.

Car got clamped yesterday for this very reason. But the clampers who put on the clamp but never locked it Release fee is €50. it was a very cheap looking clamp anyway. It wasnt damaged in any was, as i said they never locked it.

i lifted the clamp off and I put the clamp in the car and brought it homes yesterday. Rang the clamping company this morning but they are refusing to take the clamp back. They will take the clamp back if i pay them the €50.

Do you think there would be anything i should be worried about here? i am willing to hold onto the clamp till they ask for it back. there loss i think really.

Is that the right thing to do or any other advise i should be aware of.

_Kaiser_

Pistolpete1 wrote: »

Hi

Just looking for some advise here.

I was clamped in my work car park. Private car park. Lets say i didnt park in one of the offical spots but everyone else does it. For example if two cars can fit in the one spot i try squeeze in beside them. Its common practive where i work. WE dont block anyone in or cause any problems. But yes i know we offically shouldnt do it and i was wrong.

Car got clamped yesterday for this very reason. But the clampers who put on the clamp but never locked it Release fee is €50. it was a very cheap looking clamp anyway. It wasnt damaged in any was, as i said they never locked it.

i lifted the clamp off and I put the clamp in the car and brought it homes yesterday. Rang the clamping company this morning but they are refusing to take the clamp back. They will take the clamp back if i pay them the €50.

Do you think there would be anything i should be worried about here? i am willing to hold onto the clamp till they ask for it back. there loss i think really.

Is that the right thing to do or any other advise i should be aware of.

My opinion would have been that you shouldn't have rang them - technically you've now stolen it and they know it

I would have either left the clamp where it was or disposed of it in the nearest bin myself

Black_Knight

Release fee is €50.... but sure you've already released it. They should pay you

Hold onto it. If they want you to pay to give it back, its their loss.

RainyDay

I wonder what kind of relationship the clamping company have with your employer? If it's a direct relationship, I wouldn't screw around with them.

Pistolpete1

Sorry i forgot to say. I rang them and offered payment by credit cardbut they only except cash. I didnt like that. I emailed them later in the day to state i had no cash but i received no reply. This was at 5 o clock yesterday. When i went to the car and looked at it closer i realised it was unlocked so i then took it off and headed off myself in my car. i rang them this morning. i dont know if that makes any difference but i do see you point about them thinking i stole it. i work there full time so they know i would be back the next day

MugMugs

Just leave it where you found it albeit minus the car.

You've really done nothing wrong.

Lawless2k12

Buy an angle grinder... might need it.

A friend of mine took off his with an angle grinder and kept it at home to show people. Very mature :rolleyes: But nothing ever came of it so it all worked out for the lucky sod!

mistress_gi

in future you should leave the clamp where "you found it" for the company to collect. After all you has just gone to the cash machine to get money and on your return someone has removed the clamp!

LLU

Well they know you have it, and you've offered it back to them, so realistically there's little they should do other than accept your offer - and thank you for keeping it safe! :rolleyes:
And I think you were right to hold onto. If you'd left it there, someone could have stolen it, or they could claim that you stole it, etc.

Skinnykenyan

If they dont want to collect it bill them for storage lets say €50

docmol

I wonder....
If you were to take the clamp back to where you found it and lock it to a railings/lamp-post with a cheapo lock you bought, could you charge them a release fee? If they broke YOUR lock that would be criminal damage.
Probably not worth the grief.

_Kaiser_

LLU wrote: »

And I think you were right to hold onto. If you'd left it there, someone could have stolen it, or they could claim that you stole it, etc.

Yes but they'd have no proof. Unfortunately the OP has admitted he's stolen it by the fact that he called them.

The fact they won't take it back plus the additional complication of it being his work car park muddies the water somewhat though.

Pistolpete1

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yes but they'd have no proof. Unfortunately the OP has admitted he's stolen it by the fact that he called them.

The fact they won't take it back plus the additional complication of it being his work car park muddies the water somewhat though.

I didnt think i was stealing it at the time. I emailed the company, they had an hour to reply before i realised it was unlocked, they didnt (looking back i should have tried ringing them too) but the clamp was unlocked and i did offer to pay by card earlier in the day and they only took cash which i didnt like one bit. Tax reasons id say.

Il just give it back when they want it. save all the hassle and hopefully end of

kuro2k

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yes but they'd have no proof. Unfortunately the OP has admitted he's stolen it by the fact that he called them.

Maybe I missing something here but can you explain how the OP stole the clamp?

_Kaiser_

kuro2k wrote: »

Can you explain how the OP stole the clamp?

Rather than leaving it where it was, he took it home with him, and then called them to say he had it

That's theft - wasn't his to take anywhere. I'm not saying I agree with it, but if he was going to hold on to it he shouldn't have called them as in their eyes he has now stolen it.

bmstuff

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Unfortunately the OP has admitted he's stolen it by the fact that he called them.

Is it really the case?

I mean if someone throws a football in your garden, would that be considered a steal? Surely if someone fits something to your car without your consent or knowledge, then you drive away with it, would that be stealing too?

I don't try to be smart, laws can be nonsense at times. But to me I fail to understand the stealing aspect of preventing you from driving your own car, with whatever crap a 3rd party tried to stick to it.

_Kaiser_

bmstuff wrote: »

Is it really the case?

I mean if someone throws a football in your garden, would that be considered a steal? Surely if someone fits something to your car without your consent or knowledge, then you drive away with it, would that be stealing too?

I don't try to be smart, laws can be nonsense at times. But to me I fail to understand the stealing aspect of preventing you from driving your own car, with whatever crap a 3rd party tried to stick to it.

I agree the law is an ass.

I'm genuinely not having a go at the OP here either, I'm just saying that it could be considered theft if they pursued it legally. It wasn't his property to take anywhere - of course you could counter-claim that they had no right to affix it to his car in the first place..

In either case, I think the best option here would have been to left it beside the road where he was parked and then claim ignorance.

No proof of anything either way then

Lawless2k12

Since it wasn't "attatched" to the car and more sort of shoved against it I'd deem it as lost and the OP was kind enough to pick it up and offer to return it... sort of like a wallet, a big chunky metal wallet...

kuro2k

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Rather than leaving it where it was, he took it home with them, and then called them to say he had it

That's theft - wasn't his to take anywhere. I'm not saying I agree with it, but if he was going to hold on to it he shouldn't have called them as in their eyes he has now stolen it.

Ok so do you still think its theft if the OP keep the clamp in the boot of the car? The clampers attached the clamp to the wheel after all

Myrddin

Clamp the clamp & tell them its €50 a day.

Seriously though? Put it back in the carpark & play dumb

monkeypants

Take pictures to prove that it isn't damaged. Should really have done this before you lifted it, but now is better than nothing.
Drop it in to your local Garda station and say you found it beside your car.
Ignore clamping company.
Park properly in future.

_Kaiser_

kuro2k wrote: »

Ok so do you still think its theft if the OP keep the clamp in the boot of the car? The clampers attached the clamp to the wheel after all

At the risk of bogging down in the technicalities.. and I'm no lawyer incidentally

Yes, if he took it with him then he technically stole their property. Whether they had the right to affix it to his car (badly!) in the first place is another matter.. but from all reports on previous threads they don't

My point here is it's now far messier than needed as they won't take it back without payment (but the OP has admitted he has it and is presumably/potentially liable for anything that happens while it's in his possession) and the added problem that his employer might get involved

Again I think he should have just taken it off and left it there and if anything ever was asked say "What clamp?"

MugMugs

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I agree the law is an ass.

I'm genuinely not having a go at the OP here either, I'm just saying that it could be considered theft if they pursued it legally. It wasn't his property to take anywhere - of course you could counter-claim that they had no right to affix it to his car in the first place..

In either case, I think the best option here would have been to left it beside the road where he was parked and then claim ignorance.

No proof of anything either way then

I think you're getting a little excited here now.

Put the clamp back there should be no issue.

IF they reported it stolen "It was attached to my car Garda, I assumed it was a present. When I realised that it wasn't I returned it. I mean, it would take a right idiot to clamp a car and forget to lock the clamp, wouldn't it Garda? *chuckle*"

or counter claim that the clamper was in breach of the Road Traffic Act.

Pistolpete1

EnterNow wrote: »

Clamp the clamp & tell them its €50 a day.

Seriously though? Put it back in the carpark & play dumb

Id put it in the car park no problem but they know i have it so what if i leave it in the car park and they cant find it or someone else takes it and then i'm blamed.

I kindly offered it back to them this morning but they said they didnt want it.

I think they dont want to take it back from me until they have exausted all there option of getting the €50.

I suppose technically i told them i have it and they said they dont want it so i could throw it in the bin

MugMugs

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yes, if he took it with him then he technically stole their property. Whether they had the right to affix it to his car (badly!) in the first place is another matter.. but from all reports on previous threads they don't
"

Where's the line drawn though?

if somebody puts a leaflet onto my car and I drive away with it, is that theft?

What the difference here?

_Kaiser_

MugMugs wrote: »

Where's the line drawn though?

if somebody puts a leaflet onto my car and I drive away with it, is that theft?

What the difference here?

THe difference is that we both/all know that a clamp attached to a car (even unlocked) isn't a gift or advertising junk.

At the end of the day we also all know this will never see a court room and personally I wouldn't give a toss about the clampers. I think monkeypants has the right idea of how the OP should wash his hands of it at this stage.

The only complication might be the relationship the clampers have with his employer if any. All I'm saying is technically it IS "stolen property" and he would have been better leaving it where it was

Pistolpete1

I think the idea of clamping is such a grey area, its wide open for debate and everyone thinks they are right.
I think i'm right in this instance and the clamper think there right.

Private and public clamping needs to be regulated once and for all. Especially when the clamper only except cash

Only then will the whos right and whos wrong end.

I think i'm just stating the obvious though but its kinda annoying

kuro2k

Pistolpete1 wrote: »

I think the idea of clamping is such a grey area, its wide open for debate and everyone thinks they are right.
I think i'm right in this instance and the clamper think there right.

Private and public clamping needs to be regulated once and for all. Especially when the clamper only except cash

Only then will the whos right and whos wrong end.

I think i'm just stating the obvious though but its kinda annoying

Just drop the clamp into "lost & found" at work (you might get a reward) :pac: :pac:

JazzyJ

There's no intent to deprive so technically its not theft - you would have a difficult time explaining why the clamp was in your possession though if you were caught with it.

Personally I'd leave it back in the car park and contact the clamping company letting them know that their clamp is where they left it and that they should pick it up or else someone else might steal it. That or bring it into the guards and say that you've found it next to your car and the company are trying to extort money from you to return it. :pac:

Private clampers work in such a grey area - I would sincerely doubt that any legal claim could be made against you once the clamp isn't damaged and you've made reasonable efforts to return.

In future just take the clamp off and leave it where it was (taking photos to show that it was undamaged and where they left it when you leave).

Myrddin

Pistolpete1 wrote: »

Id put it in the car park no problem but they know i have it so what if i leave it in the car park and they cant find it or someone else takes it and then i'm blamed.

I kindly offered it back to them this morning but they said they didnt want it.

I think they dont want to take it back from me until they have exausted all there option of getting the €50.

I suppose technically i told them i have it and they said they dont want it so i could throw it in the bin

Ring them again, tell them their clamp will be in the carpark on X day at X time. They either want it back or they don't.

Or

Throw the thing back into the carpark & deny all knowledge you ever rang them about it. Is a Guard really going to trawl through phone records to prove you rang them? I don't think so.

This is going nowhere, & turning a mountain into a molehill. They are pushing you to pay money you don't have to. "Yes Guard I found a clamp beside my car but it was opened & on the ground. I took it home thinking I was doing a good thing trying to give it back to the company"

JazzyJ

And since the clamp is no longer on your car, don't pay them any money whatsoever.

And park in a better place next time

sebastianlieken

Em, just to save his own ass. would the OP not be better off just handing it in to the local garda station? just tell the gaurds that the clamp was on the wheel but not locked... so he is handing it in as lost property. (the gards wont get involved as it's a private security firm and the gards wont perticularly care about making them a profit)

Then call the clampers and tell them it has been handed in to the gardai

monkeypants

JazzyJ wrote: »

And since the clamp is no longer on your car, don't pay them any money whatsoever.

Agreed. The €50 is a release fee and you have nothing that requires releasing.

T-Maxx

I don't see the issue here TBH. You contacted them and offered the clamp back - undamaged obviously because they never locked it. If they don't want it back, it's there business. Get it in writing or record the conversation and details and tell them you'll dispose of it then. And because you're a nice guy and returning the favour (strictly speaking you should have been clamped but they sort of gave you a warning in this case) you won't charge them for the disposal.

End of.

olcod

Keep the clamp, buy yourself a lock and hey presto you have an added anti theft device for when parking in dodgy areas

AltAccount

Drop it into your local Garda Station, explaining the situation.

Email the company and tell them where it is.

Don't enter into any further correspondence with them.

WestWicklow1

Mention it to your employer.

Do not contact clamping company again.

Keep clamp for a couple of months and if no communication from clamping company, dump it.

RainyDay

MugMugs wrote: »

Where's the line drawn though?

if somebody puts a leaflet onto my car and I drive away with it, is that theft?

Actually, it is littering. By the leafleter, not the driver.

MugMugs

RainyDay wrote: »

Actually, it is littering. By the leafleter, not the driver.

Is clamping not littering too then ?

RainyDay

MugMugs wrote: »

Is clamping not littering too then ?

Do clamps blow away in the wind?

granturismo

RainyDay wrote: »

I wonder what kind of relationship the clamping company have with your employer? If it's a direct relationship, I wouldn't screw around with them.

This is the best advice you've got.

Gardai have nothing to do with it - its a civil matter between you and the clampers or between you and your employer.

bmstuff

It is a bit harsh from the employer too, clamping their own employees cars...if there is obvious parking issues, a mass email should be enough. Unless there is history here and employees kept ignoring the warnings...

RainyDay

bmstuff wrote: »

Unless there is history here and employees kept ignoring the warnings...

Read the OP - that's exactly what was happening.

MugMugs

RainyDay wrote: »

Do clamps blow away in the wind?

Is that the definition of littering so? Must blow away in the wind?

mel123

do not hand over 50€ of ur hard earned cash. if they want the clamp, let them come to you to get it back. its nothing to do with the gardai, its a private car park. your employer pays this crowd to do this, im sure they will have to no sympathy for you. keep the clamp, if they want it back, give it to them, dont let them threaten you, its all bull.
i used to live in an estate that the management company went around clamping cars. they soon stopped after everyone kept taking them off with an angle grinder.

mel123

ps has anyone heard of the clamping fairy going around dublin city? they 'rescused' my friends car that was clamped. no idea who is doing it?!?

RainyDay

MugMugs wrote: »

Is that the definition of littering so? Must blow away in the wind?

I think it's the definition of 'common sense' that you're looking for.

MugMugs

RainyDay wrote: »

I think it's the definition of 'common sense' that you're looking for.

You're the one that brought up littering, I thought you'd at least know what you were talking about on the matter.

Furthermore, when has the law ever been known for it's common sense? :rolleyes:

Gosub

Keep the clamp, get a decent lock, wait for the clampers to arrive in their van. If there's a parking issue they will have nowhere to park. As soon as their backs are turned clamp the barstewards!

Clamp returned to rightful owner!

Marcusm

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

At the risk of bogging down in the technicalities.. and I'm no lawyer incidentally

Yes, if he took it with him then he technically stole their property. Whether they had the right to affix it to his car (badly!) in the first place is another matter.. but from all reports on previous threads they don't

My point here is it's now far messier than needed as they won't take it back without payment (but the OP has admitted he has it and is presumably/potentially liable for anything that happens while it's in his possession) and the added problem that his employer might get involved

Again I think he should have just taken it off and left it there and if anything ever was asked say "What clamp?"

IT IS NOT THEFT as the OP did not dishonestly appropriate the clmaping company's property with the intention of depriving them of it. He has clearly evidenced his intention to return it to them by contacting them and providing them with his contact details. Other than the initial hooky parking (which I don't condone), the OP has done nothing wrong as the clamper did not effectively detain his car. On the basis that there is no charge to use the car park, he has no further obligation than to return the clamp and it is difficult to see how he could possibly face any legal action.

On the other hand, if my employer operated a car park wherein they chose to use a clamping company, I wouldn't be parking improperly int he first place.

Marcusm

Gosub wrote: »

Keep the clamp, get a decent lock, wait for the clampers to arrive in their van. If there's a parking issue they will have nowhere to park. As soon as their backs are turned clamp the barstewards!

Clamp returned to rightful owner!

In your employer's car park? That is your advice.....