VHV leading to Sponsorship??

sydneybound

Hi all, I'm really looking for replies here and peoples past experiences on the subject.

In a couple of months I'm off to Sydney however before I leave I'm applying for lots of jobs in the slim hope I could have something lined up before I go over. Ideally this would also include sponsorship but I know this might be unlikely.

What I would like to know is how many people do you know went off to Sydney on a WHV got jobs out there and their companies started to sponsor them? is it quite a high percentage? I am aware you have to put the work in which I'm not one bit frightened about however it would be nice knowing that down the road companies would be willing to sponsor you.

Anyone with any sort of information would be great

jellie

It's not as easy as people think. Even getting a job in the first place can be difficult enough.

lg123

it totally depends on what you do. as jellie said, it not near as easy as some people think. things are slowing down in aus, not at a huge rate like a crash (i hope) but i know a lot of business are finding things tough. our company let 2 people go recently and that was purely a numbers thing, not performance. each state has different economic conditions also. why are you going to sydney? your skills/experience might be more sought-after in another city.

Rubadubchub

Getting a job is completely dependant on -

1. Industry and how it is performing (i.e. skilled job in high demand)
2. Area
3. Experience
4. Qualifications (However I have found that experience is ten times more important in Oz)
5. Luck

Getting Sponsored is dependant on -

1. The impression you make on your employer.
2. Whether the company can accommodate sponsorship - i.e. my company has never done it, doesn’t understand it and isn’t willing to learn how to go about it. My girlfriends company sponsor people constantly.
3. Luck

I know that you are looking for some reassurances that you will get sponsored but you wont know until you come over and find out for yourself. If your skills are in high demand and on the skilled occupation list (Think its posted in the stickies) then i would say that you have a good chance. If you have spent 5 years working in Tesco stacking shelves and have no qualifications and experience then not so much.

What do you do for a living?

sydneybound

I have five years experience in sports management basically working for two different sport governance organisations in Ireland and the UK. The last two heavily involving the London 2012 Olympics however to get sponsorship I would be happy to move industry to accommodate.

In a way I wouldnt mind to experience something different in Oz so a change of industry would actually be welcomed besides I'm aware getting a job with a city council or department of sport as a non resident/citizen is near slim to none.

Education wise I have a degree and masters (mba). I would like to move to Sydney being the largest city work prospects might be a little better and having been there twice really like the city. I'm 28 so eligible for the WHV so more than likely will go over and attempt to get employment with the hope of being sponsored. It is a slightly nervous time so all the help here is muchly appreciated.

mandrake04

It hard to say what percentage of WHV get sponsored, but look at some of the stats will give you a fair idea.

Ireland is ranked 3rd in [url=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/99680/239089.png[/url] at 10140 last year. but of those 6320 were the Primary grant (the actual sponsored one) where as other 3820 were dependents.

Compare that with the average of 23700 per year of [url=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/99680/239090.png[/url] (over the last 2 years) and it could say the chance would be 1 in 3.75

* includes 1st and 2nd and average over the last 2 years to give a stable result.

But then you should also factor in the [url=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/99680/239091.png[/url] there seems to be more slightly offshore grants than onshore but since Ireland is in the WHV scheme it would have an onshore advantage compared to other countries that would be mainly offshore. I would be generous and say that maybe 75% (4740) of the Irish 457 primary grants were onshore.

Your 1 in 3.75 would probably be around 1 in 5 or a 20% chance.

also take in to consideration that not everyone on WHV are looking sponsored.


Still as per Rubadubchub post there are plenty of factors in getting sponsored, luck being the main one. But sometimes you have to make your own luck.

What the stats don't tell is how many people lose their 457 through redundancy, sacked or employer folded and have to return to Ireland. Although sometimes people on here regard the 457 as some sort of holy grail but you are basically on a months notice to leave the country if things go south.

also a few other stats

Irish nationals were granted July 2011- June 2012

Migrant visa = 4938
Business visa = 28
Distinguished Talent = 0
Student = 645

lg123

distinguished talent visa, never heard of that before.

where did you get all the stats mandrake?

rightyabe

If only drinking and wearing a GAA jersey was a talent....sigh!!

mandrake04

lg123 wrote: »

distinguished talent visa, never heard of that before.

where did you get all the stats mandrake?

Distinguished talent would be the likes of Brian McFathead and Tadhg Kennelly

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/statistics/country-profiles/_pdf/ireland.pdf

aido79

mandrake04 wrote: »

What the stats don't tell is how many people lose their 457 through redundancy, sacked or employer folded and have to return to Ireland. Although sometimes people on here regard the 457 as some sort of holy grail but you are basically on a months notice to leave the country if things go south.

Exactly...some people are under the impression that sponsorship is the only way to stay in Australia after the WHV..and for some people it is but in my opinion it is one of the worst visas to be on. If you have a qualification and the right experience then you are better off going straight for a permanent visa. Come over on a WHV and apply for residency and stay on the WHV until your permanent visa is processed.

statina

aido79 wrote: »

Exactly...some people are under the impression that sponsorship is the only way to stay in Australia after the WHV..and for some people it is but in my opinion it is one of the worst visas to be on. If you have a qualification and the right experience then you are better off going straight for a permanent visa. Come over on a WHV and apply for residency and stay on the WHV until your permanent visa is processed.

Agree. If I were doing it again, I'd have got my permanent visa before I came out. With sponsorship, your employer essentially has the power over you- this can make it very difficult when you are looking for a wage increase etc.

The_Hustler

Would most people agree with that?

My WHV is up in July and my current employer doesn't seem to sponsor. This could be the way to go.

mandrake04

For a lot of people on WHV Permanent residency is not an option, as above less than 5000 Irish people (that also includes all dependents/family and partners of Australian born citizens) qualify for PR last year where is usually around 2500/3000.

The skills assessment and proof of recent relevant work experience is what knocks it on the head for most people, the lack of a skills assessment and the recent removal of labour market testing has reduced the 457 to a mere work permit that in all honestly is not that hard to get. Finding an employer willing to sponsor is the hard bit, although most employers now catch on that the offer of sponsorship gives them a huge advantage over the conditions of the employee.

mandrake04

The_Hustler wrote: »

Would most people agree with that?

My WHV is up in July and my current employer doesn't seem to sponsor. This could be the way to go.

If you are thinking of PR without involving an employer then General Skills on skill select is you only option.

a) You need to meet the skills assessment and Criteria.

b) you need to register an EOI and receive an invite.

c) Lodge an application and then apply for a bridging visa to keep you onshore.

With 5 months its tight but stll doable, as long as all your ducks fall in a row.

lg123

The_Hustler wrote: »

Would most people agree with that?

My WHV is up in July and my current employer doesn't seem to sponsor. This could be the way to go.

i fully agree, the 457 is a very restrictive and limiting visa.

in your case it will be very tight to get an independent PR application together, submitted, and visa decision in 5 months. i dont think you have any bridging options with that route either, could be wrong there though.

how come your employer dosnt sponsor? lack of knowledge on their part?

mandrake04

lg123 wrote: »

i fully agree, the 457 is a very restrictive and limiting visa.

in your case it will be very tight to get an independent PR application together, submitted, and visa decision in 5 months. i dont think you have any bridging options with that route either, could be wrong there though.

how come your employer dosnt sponsor? lack of knowledge on their part?

You can get a bridging visa for a 189 & 190 but only once you lodge the visa application which is at point (c) above, but you need (a) to progress to (b) then you have to wait until you are invited to apply for a visa.

The chances of an invite depends on the occupation and since this is the second part of the year a lot of occupations are hitting their ceiling.

markymark21

sydneybound wrote: »

Hi all, I'm really looking for replies here and peoples past experiences on the subject.

In a couple of months I'm off to Sydney however before I leave I'm applying for lots of jobs in the slim hope I could have something lined up before I go over. Ideally this would also include sponsorship but I know this might be unlikely.

What I would like to know is how many people do you know went off to Sydney on a WHV got jobs out there and their companies started to sponsor them? is it quite a high percentage? I am aware you have to put the work in which I'm not one bit frightened about however it would be nice knowing that down the road companies would be willing to sponsor you.

Anyone with any sort of information would be great

No one is going to sponsor you before they see you work. Either way you'll wanna work for a company for a few months before you commit to working for a company via the sponsorship route. You don't want to be sponsored straight away only to find out your boss is a cowboy who may exploit the fact they have near control of your visa status

As mandrake pointed out it isn't uncommon for people to be sponsored. Personally I think it just boils down to whether or not you are better then the average aussie at whatever job you do. If you aren't why would they go to the trouble of sponsoring you?

jackbhoy

markymark21 wrote: »

No one is going to sponsor you before they see you work. Either way you'll wanna work for a company for a few months before you commit to working for a company via the sponsorship route. You don't want to be sponsored straight away only to find out your boss is a cowboy who may exploit the fact they have near control of your visa status

As mandrake pointed out it isn't uncommon for people to be sponsored. Personally I think it just boils down to whether or not you are better then the average aussie at whatever job you do. If you aren't why would they go to the trouble of sponsoring you?

Or about the same as average Aussie but sponsoring means employer has massive negotiating position for salary and that you will probably work harder as your continued residence in Oz is dependent on keeping your job. Makes an attractive prospect for employers imo.

mandrake04

markymark21 wrote: »

No one is going to sponsor you before they see you work.

In theory I would tend to agree but only in certain occupations (trade/Hospatality occupations), there are many people who have been sponsored before even stepping foot in Australia. If you look at other forums its full of middle aged Doctors, Nurses, Engineers, IT Professionals etc who have been sponsored without ever working in Australia

Surprisingly if you look at the stats there are slightly more offshore than onshore grants.



Like Jackbhoy says is nothing to do with being better than the average Aussie its about not having the luxury to f**k around like an Aussie has, in essence the employer holds all the cards unless you are really really good and you can move around employers at will. But then if you are that good you would have enough sense to go for PR anyway.

markymark21

jackbhoy wrote: »

Or about the same as average Aussie but sponsoring means employer has massive negotiating position for salary and that you will probably work harder as your continued residence in Oz is dependent on keeping your job. Makes an attractive prospect for employers imo.

That's true, I'll use that point when I'm doing interviews this week

From talking to employers many of them seem to think sponsorship just isn't worth it. Some of them like having flexibility with their staff and like being able to hire and fire as the season peaks and dips. Some of them seem to think it's a lot of paperwork as well.. lazy ba$tards


I think I read here they don't have to prove that they couldn't find an Australian to do the job, they only have to provide evidence that they are 'committed to training Australians', is that correct?

mandrake04

markymark21 wrote: »

From talking to employers many of them seem to think sponsorship just isn't worth it. Some of them like having flexibility with their staff and like being able to hire and fire as the season peaks and dips. Some of them seem to think it's a lot of paperwork as well.. lazy ba$tards

It's worth it if they sponsor you more cheaply than employing an Australian, even though its not supposed to happen but everyone knows it does. You are not going to whinge about it if your visa or chance of ENS is hanging in the balance.

markymark21 wrote: »

I think I read here they don't have to prove that they couldn't find an Australian to do the job, they only have to provide evidence that they are 'committed to training Australians', is that correct?

It was called Labour Market Testing, it has now been removed and the employer does not have to prove that they interviewed residents/citizens. The employer has to commit to spend 1% of their payroll training Australians or they have to donate 2% into into an industry training fund.

markymark21

mandrake04 wrote: »

It's worth it if they sponsor you more cheaply than employing an Australian, even though its not supposed to happen but everyone knows it does. You are not going to whinge about it if your visa or chance of ENS is hanging in the balance.




It was called Labour Market Testing, it has now been removed and the employer does not have to prove that they interviewed residents/citizens. The employer has to commit to spend 1% of their payroll training Australians or they have to donate 2% into into an industry training fund.

Cheer dude

mandrake04

http://www.irishecho.com.au/2013/02/04/steady-rise-in-irish-workers-on-457-visa-2/23025

sydneybound

In an ideal world I would apply for the Permanent Residency visa but in my industry or an industry I would be likely to work in it doesn’t match the list.

I think it’s just the feeling of security of being sponsored before you actually travel to Australia which appeals to me. In the end I’m sure I will just go out on a WHV and do all the hours god sends to ensure I get sponsored. Hopefully it works out!