Rape in Cork

pabloh999

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/i-will-never-feel-safe-again-after-rape-in-van-victim-3369920.html

Girl picked up in a van by 3 men, then raped and robbed.
I wonder what sort of sentence will be imposed?
Im betting fairly lenient as i have very little faith in our judicial system.
I hope im wrong
Sentencing tommorow

Whats your predictions?

Kylo Ren

pabloh999 wrote: »

Whats your predictions?

What is this? The betting forum? ffs

HTML5!

Ah they're probably dealing with some deep-seated personal problems from their upbringing, the poor lambs.

150hrs community service. Let's try and rehabilitate these guys! :rolleyes:

Lyaiera

It's Paul Carney. He could give them three months community service in a swimming pool or don the black cap and sentence them to death.

staker

"As far as I am concerned, they left their childhood behind long ago," he said.(Justice Carney).

Hope he follows through on this, dunno the legalities involved though

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Is this rape special bvecause it happened in Cork? Or do you await the results of all rape trials with bated breath, hoping the judge beats the prevailing under/over? Wierd thread and in poor taste too.

o1s1n

Jesus that's absolutely awful. I really hope Carney tries to prove he's not a complete muppet after the last incident and throws the book at these guys.

The_Gatsby

It emerged that they have a total of 39 previous convictions between them for burglary, theft, drunk and disorderly and threatening behaviour. But neither has served any time in prison.

Think you might be right OP

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Twenty years, a death sentence and three floggings less than AH hopes for.

Then everyone even slightly left of extreme conservatism to be accused of beign a bleeding-heart liberal and refering to the convicted as "poor lambs" and "psychologically disturbed"

pabloh999

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Is this rape special bvecause it happened in Cork? Or do you await the results of all rape trials with bated breath, hoping the judge beats the prevailing under/over? Wierd thread and in poor taste too.

What makes you think I "await the results of all rape trials with bated breath"?
Why would i do that? I was reading an online newspaper and wondered would these scumbags get a sentence that fits the crime.
Thats it.

refusetolose

pabloh999 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/i-will-never-feel-safe-again-after-rape-in-van-victim-3369920.html

Girl picked up in a van by 3 men, then raped and robbed.
I wonder what sort of sentence will be imposed?
Im betting fairly lenient as i have very little faith in our judicial system.
I hope im wrong
Sentencing tommorow

Whats your predictions?

2 men

HTML5!

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Twenty years, a death sentence and three floggings less than AH hopes for.

Then everyone even slightly left of extreme conservatism to be accused of beign a bleeding-heart liberal and refering to the convicted as "poor lambs" and "psychologically disturbed"

That would've been good had we not been 8 posts in already. Try harder.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

pabloh999 wrote: »

What makes you think I "await the results of all rape trials with bated breath"?
Why would i do that? I was reading an online newspaper and wondered would these scumbags get a sentence that fits the crime.
Thats it.

Asking for "predictions" like it was the 3.45 at Goodwood or something struck me as a bit wierd I guess.

pabloh999

refusetolose wrote: »

2 men

On the night of the attack, she attended a birthday party in a pub but became separated from her friends. She had consumed a quantity of alcohol and was then picked up by the two men and another individual in a white van.

eviltwin

On the night of the attack, she attended a birthday party in a pub but became separated from her friends. She had consumed a quantity of alcohol and was then picked up by the two men and another individual in a white van.

Horrific attack, the comment from one of the attackers to "give him a lash" made my skin crawl, they treated her like a piece of meat.

Just on the above quote from the paper though, why do they have to mention she had been drinking at all? What has that got to do with it? Would it have been any more of a dispicable act had she been attacked coming home from a Starbucks or something ? :mad:

Bipolar Joe

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Asking for "predictions" like it was the 3.45 at Goodwood or something struck me as a bit wierd I guess.

I'm assuming he wasn't looking for odds, just pointing out the extreme lack of what most people on here would consider fair punishments. Get off your horse and stop trying to start arguments where they don't need to be started. You are not better than anyone else on here.

Apart from RTDH, he's a bit off.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

HTML5! wrote: »

That would've been good had we not been 8 posts in already. Try harder.

It's not 8 posts late, it's 24 hours early.

refusetolose

pabloh999 wrote: »

On the night of the attack, she attended a birthday party in a pub but became separated from her friends. She had consumed a quantity of alcohol and was then picked up by the two men and another individual in a white van.

the 3rd might have been a female?

BillyMitchel

Extradite them to Saudi Arabia, give them the case and let them be beheaded but hopefully the executioner will chop their cocks off first and leave them in pain for a few hours before the public beheading.

pabloh999

eviltwin wrote: »

On the night of the attack, she attended a birthday party in a pub but became separated from her friends. She had consumed a quantity of alcohol and was then picked up by the two men and another individual in a white van.

Horrific attack, the comment from one of the attackers to "give him a lash" made my skin crawl, they treated her like a piece of meat.

Just on the above quote from the paper though, why do they have to mention she had been drinking at all? What has that got to do with it? Would it have been any more of a dispicable act had she been attacked coming home from a Starbucks or something ? :mad:

I think the fact she was drinking makes her more vunerable

suicide_circus

From the article:

It emerged that they have a total of 39 previous convictions between them for burglary, theft, drunk and disorderly and threatening behaviour. But neither has served any time in prison.
One of the men, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was convicted of rape, attempted rape and sexual assault of the woman. The other was convicted of attempted rape and sexual assault.
End Quote.

So 39 convictions between them and no jail time...the softly softly approach, eh? That worked out well, didn't it?

Also, how can you be simultaneously be convicted of rape and attempted rape?

Bipolar Joe

suicide_circus wrote: »

From the article:

It emerged that they have a total of 39 previous convictions between them for burglary, theft, drunk and disorderly and threatening behaviour. But neither has served any time in prison.
One of the men, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was convicted of rape, attempted rape and sexual assault of the woman. The other was convicted of attempted rape and sexual assault.
End Quote.

So 39 convictions between them and no jail time...the softly softly approach, eh? That worked out well, didn't it?

Also, how can you be simultaneously be convicted of rape and attempted rape?

Not to sound crass, but if he managed it once, tried it again a minute later and wasn't able to, might that count?


I legitimately have no idea how to word that.

suicide_circus

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Not to sound crass, but if he managed it once, tried it again a minute later and wasn't able to, might that count?


I legitimately have no idea how to word that.

so if an attacked "successfully" violates a victim a number of times during the course of a rape, they will be convicted of multiple rapes?

Bipolar Joe

suicide_circus wrote: »

so if an attacked "successfully" violates a victim a number of times during the course of a rape, they will be convicted of multiple rapes?

Maybe? I dunno, I'm not a law making person, I just don't rape stuff. This was the first logical way to make sense of it that came into my head.

pabloh999

Keno 92 wrote: »

What is this? The betting forum? ffs

Its not the betting forum, but some sentences being handed down seem like they are picked from a hat or something.

I can almost see the judge in a circus ringmaster costume, circus music playing
Roll up ,roll up , gather round everybody
this guy raped and robbed will he get -
- 10 years
- 2 years
- pay a fine

eviltwin

[QUOTE=suicide_circus;8296270

Also, how can you be simultaneously be convicted of rape and attempted rape?[/QUOTE]

Could refer to the different kinds of rape, oral etc

c_man

When was the last time justice was actually done in this country? What on earth makes anyone think that we'll see it tomorrow in this case?

D1stant

Weren't these guys travellers? ( might be wrong but I think I heard at the time they were

Would that influence the snetence/charge?

Bronze Wolf

D1stant wrote: »

Weren't these guys travellers? ( might be wrong but I think I heard at the time they were

Would that influence the snetence/charge?

It shouldn't but in reality who knows.

These guys were no angels no matter what their background. The three of them were cousins but one got off the charges somehow.

Boombastic

Bronze Wolf wrote: »

It shouldn't but in reality who knows.

These guys were no angels no matter what their background. The three of them were cousins but one got off the charges somehow.

This is a report on the case from Oct

She said her memory was that the sexual assault and rape were carried out by the other men and not by the 15-year-old. She said: “I have it in my head that he was alright. I wasn't scared of him”.

The woman has given evidence earlier that when the van stopped two men came from the front of the van and she was raped and sexually assaulted by them. She said there was a woman present too “egging” the men on and that this woman sexually assaulted her too.

Mr Creed put it to her that there was no woman in the van and that the fourth person was an 11-year-old boy. She said there was a woman there but she admitted her recollection is hazy.

A friend of the woman told prosecuting counsel Patrick McCarthy SC that he was driving past her house at around 4.30am when he saw a white van and three men and a woman acting suspiciously.






And another


There was uproar in court at the outcome with families of the accused shouting at each other and proclaiming their relatives’ innocence.

Mr Justice Paul Carney has jailed a mother and a younger woman for contempt until tomorrow morning.

CruelCoin

pabloh999 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/i-will-never-feel-safe-again-after-rape-in-van-victim-3369920.html

Girl picked up in a van by 3 men, then raped and robbed.
I wonder what sort of sentence will be imposed?
Im betting fairly lenient as i have very little faith in our judicial system.
I hope im wrong
Sentencing tommorow

Whats your predictions?

Why would i bet on something as sordid as this?

About as bad as betting on cockfighting.

Also, will you be posting a thread like this for every reported rape?

Boombastic

suicide_circus wrote: »

...................
Also, how can you be simultaneously be convicted of rape and attempted rape?

The three men, aged 19, 19 and 21, have all pleaded not guilty at the Central Criminal Court to three charges each, namely the oral rape, attempted rape, and sexual assault of a woman at an unknown location in Cork on Sept 13, 2009.

One of the men has pleaded guilty to stealing the woman's car from outside her home on the night.

Charges of vaginal rape against all three accused were dropped earlier in the trial because of the complainant’s evidence

Leftist

CruelCoin wrote: »

Why would i bet on something as sordid as this?

About as bad as betting on cockfighting.

Also, will you be posting a thread like this for every reported rape?

what an ridiculous reaction. I don't think OP was literally taking bets.

The post seems to be a remark on the jackpot lenient sentences rapists recieve in ireland.

Potential-Monke

suicide_circus wrote: »

Also, how can you be simultaneously be convicted of rape and attempted rape?

Each individual act would count as another attempt/act. Each type of act is also different, ie: oral, vaginal, anal. Without sounding crass, they may not have managed one of the 3, and that would be attempted.

Sexual Assault then covers everything but penetration (attempted or executed) orally, anally or vaginally. This would cover fondling, touching, licking, biting, etc.

Finally, digital insertion is also a seperate offence.

As for the possible sentence, i'd imagine due to their age, and co-operation (that is, admitting), it will be a reduced sentence, but they will serve time. Length or which, i have no clue, that's all up to the Judge, and they are notorious for going one way or the other...

jmayo

It emerged that they have a total of 39 previous convictions between them for burglary, theft, drunk and disorderly and threatening behaviour. But neither has served any time in prison.

Now does anyone wonder if the three strikes rule in the US would have prevented such an attack.

Yeah lets hear it for our revolving door justice system where eventually after one does something bad enough they get some jail time, for a little while at least so long as they aren't sick. :rolleyes:

Bipolar Joe

CruelCoin wrote: »

Why would i bet on something as sordid as this?

About as bad as betting on cockfighting.

Also, will you be posting a thread like this for every reported rape?

It's posts like these that make me wish that, alongside the "Thanks" button, we had a "Don't be such a fucking moron" button.

ChippingSodbury

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

It's posts like these that make me wish that, alongside the "Thanks" button, we had a "Don't be such a fucking moron" button.

Nice one!!!

twinQuins

jmayo wrote: »

Now does anyone wonder if the three strikes rule in the US would have prevented such an attack. [...]

The same US that has a higher crime rate than us? Yeah, that's really working out well for them...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jmayo wrote: »

Now does anyone wonder if the three strikes rule in the US would have prevented such an attack.

Yeah lets hear it for our revolving door justice system where eventually after one does something bad enough they get some jail time, for a little while at least so long as they aren't sick. :rolleyes:

So.... you want jails full of people who have been convicted three times of minor cirmes to the point that there's no space for rapists...??

CruelCoin

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So.... you want jails full of people who have been convicted three times of minor cirmes to the point that there's no space for rapists...??

It might help to break the cycle whereby:

Judge: "Off to jail with you"
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again
Judge: "Off to jail with you" again..
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again
Judge: "Off to jail with you" again......
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again

Repeat ad infinitum.

And before anyone comes in with it, no, i don't think they are redeemable.

Madam_X

HTML5! wrote: »

Ah they're probably dealing with some deep-seated personal problems from their upbringing, the poor lambs.

150hrs community service. Let's try and rehabilitate these guys! :rolleyes:

When has anyone ever said that about people who commit a crime like this?

They haven't. It's a myth from the depths of the "Political correctness gone mad!" files.

Odysseus

CruelCoin wrote: »

It might help to break the cycle whereby:

Judge: "Off to jail with you"
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again
Judge: "Off to jail with you" again..
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again
Judge: "Off to jail with you" again......
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again

Repeat ad infinitum.

And before anyone comes in with it, no, i don't think they are redeemable.

Are there are individuals currently within the Irish prison system who have being convicted released early and repeated ad infinitum?

biko

It emerged that they have a total of 39 previous convictions between them for burglary, theft, drunk and disorderly and threatening behaviour. But neither has served any time in prison.

Clearly a case of "wow, we can do what we like without consequences"...

jmayo

twinQuins wrote: »

The same US that has a higher crime rate than us? Yeah, that's really working out well for them...

And our system is working ?
Or maybe you fail to notice the number of crimes being reported where the offender is actually on bail, remand, or has been in and out of jail numerous times ?

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So.... you want jails full of people who have been convicted three times of minor cirmes to the point that there's no space for rapists...??

No I want something along the lines of the Singapore system where if you are caught doing minor crimes and anti social behaviour you can end up getting your ars* whipped.
And a lot of these guys start with anti-social behaviour at an early stage.

Of course you and your cronies (I see one of them already thanked your post) will make excuses for them at an early stage dragging in their upbringing, their home, the fact the state and everyone else did not bend over backwards enough for them. :rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CruelCoin wrote: »

It might help to break the cycle whereby:

Judge: "Off to jail with you"
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again
Judge: "Off to jail with you" again..
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again
Judge: "Off to jail with you" again......
Convict: "I'll never do it again"
Early Release
Rapes again

Repeat ad infinitum.

And before anyone comes in with it, no, i don't think they are redeemable.

The three strikes rule was implemented for petty criminals, not rapists. If you disagree, show me the cases where serial rapists repeatedly get short jail sentences.

jmayo wrote: »

And our system is working ?
Or maybe you fail to notice the number of crimes being reported where the offender is actually on bail, remand, or has been in and out of jail numerous times ?

Nice of you to put words in my mouth. No, I never said this. But if we're going to replace our system, which is not working with someone else's system, which is also not working, what is it going to achieve?

Of course you and your cronies (I see one of them already thanked your post) will make excuses for them at an early stage dragging in their upbringing, their home, the fact the state and everyone else did not bend over backwards enough for them. :rolleyes:

Oh, will we now? As someone said, this is myth from the depths of the "Political correctness gone mad!" files. If it's not, perhaps you should actually read the reponces you refer to realise than no one actual ever says that: you just want to think that we do because you can't debate the actual argument we present.

jmayo

Odysseus wrote: »

Are there are individuals currently within the Irish prison system who have being convicted released early and repeated ad infinitum?

Well lets list a few of the more famous ones shall we ?
Note I am also including one who was given bail rather than early release.

Gerard Barry of Galway had been part of a gang that killed 26-year-old Colm Phelan in a Eyre Sq, he had served time, he was allowed on bail after beating up his girlfriend, even though he was suspect in the savage rape of a French girl.
Then he went on to savegly rape and murder Manuela Riedo.

What about the 28 year old German girl Bettina Poeschel killed in Louth/Meath by second time murderer, michael murphy, who had been released after a 9 years of a 12 year sentence for viciously killing a 64 year old widow Mrs Catherine Carroll ?

What about thomas murray in Galway who killed a retired teacher, Mrs Nancy Nolan, whilst on day release from Castlerea prison where he was serving a sentence for the vicous murder of an elderly neighbour William Mannion ?
Whilst he had been on a work release program in Galway he had been found to have been engaged in appropriate behaviour near children yet he was still allowed out on day release.
BTW he stabbed and bludgeoned his victims to death and by most appraisals he is psychotic and will kill again.

BTW I also await the day when some unfortunate is the latest victim of larry murphy.

I have named the victims here since all we ever seem to hear is the names of their killers who so often the ones whose civil and human rights seem to matter to some.

Now if the system can get it wrong with these very dangerous killers, even psychopaths, then imagine how many earlt releases and wrong they get it with run of the mill theives, muggers, those guilty of assualts and gbh, etc.

Now aren't you glad you asked the above question.
Lets hear the excuses and then perhaps you will have the balls to go tell them to the families of the victims like the Reidos or the Nolans.

Madam_X

Excuses? What sane person would make excuses for those crimes? Oh yeh, nobody.

minidazzler

Madam_X wrote: »

Excuses? What sane person would make excuses for those crimes? Oh yeh, nobody.

Technically his family are probably somewhat sane, and they will make excuses (probably involving calling the ladies morals into question) because their darling sons wouldn't do such a thing. Apparently when they were in court they screamed about blaming it on the kid who got off saying he did all of it.

jmayo

Madam_X wrote: »

Excuses? What sane person would make excuses for those crimes? Oh yeh, nobody.

No they don't make excuses for the crimes, but they will damm well make excuses why they should not be locked up for very sizeable sentences if not forever and they will come out with the mantra about how everyone deserves rehabiliation and a second chance.
All of the ones I mentioned above got a second chance and all they did was use to take another inocent life.
Some people deserve a second chance, some do not.
If someone savagely kills another then that should be it.
All of the ones I mentioned had done that.

Madam_X

Doubt it. I'd bet most people (even the mythical pc brigade) would just want these lowlives locked up for a long time, end of. It's only imagined that they want the system to go soft on them. Ok they disagree with torture but that doesn't make them too soft, just not bloodthirsty.

Some criminals can be rehabilitated but some are too far gone. Nobody's saying it's one size fits all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jmayo wrote: »

No they don't make excuses for the crimes, but they will damm well make excuses why they should not be locked up for very sizeable sentences if not forever and they will come out with the mantra about how everyone deserves rehabiliation and a second chance.
All of the ones I mentioned above got a second chance and all they did was use to take another inocent life.
Some people deserve a second chance, some do not.
If someone savagely kills another then that should be it.
All of the ones I mentioned had done that.

You're getting closer, but you still haven't understood the point correctly.

In the cases you argue, I'd agree with you, but you still haven't asnwered the question:

Who, outside of the criminals families', is either making excuses or claiming theyshould be given leniant sentences because of factors like "upbrining"? You claimed me and I want to know what you're basing this on.