Getting the Irish back to work

Fully Established

Hi folks
Just to find out opinions on this , over the weekend i was out with friends and got talking to a girl in our company , I was very surprised with what she was telling me .
To cut a long story short she was saying that some Irish companies are actively recruiting outside of Ireland for jobs in Ireland so then i was thinking well may be the right people are not here to which i was told it was cheaper to bring in contract staff for the busy periods and these periods can be up to eight months long, than employ a suitably qualified Irish person .

I find it hard to believe this but i was thinking if the government are so serious about getting people back to work they would stop this exploitation by some Irish companies . I have also forgot to mention that the companies doing these practices are profit making businesses. With these sort of practices going on i would imagine Ireland is a long way from recovering.

Finally just to find out the public opinion on this would naming the companies maybe shame them to change things ?

Thank You

xLexie

Most Irish people are lazy and think a lot of jobs are beneth them... What's the point to the OP?

snubbleste

Call Joe Duffy

TheBikeGuy

Very few Irish can speak a second language, thats why most of these people are being recruited

fangee

If true I presume it's perfectly legal.

Dravokivich

I'm Irish, I work...

kjl

And who exactly are they going to employ? The majority of people on the Dole are ex-construction workers. They are hardly going to be recruited to design software.

Ireland needs to focus on education, this is the only way people are going to get work in a down turn economy.

Drakares

xLexie wrote: »

Most Irish people are lazy and think a lot of jobs are beneth them... What's the point to the OP?

And what qualifies you to make such a statement?

There's 4,487,000 people living in Ireland, and I don't think your village and facebook friends really give a grasping picture of the big image.

P_1

fangee wrote: »

If true I presume it's perfectly legal.

It is perfectly legal, you can discriminate on the basis of nationality. What you can't discriminate on is:
Gender
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age (does not apply to a person under 16)
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller community.

El Guapo!

xLexie wrote: »

Most Irish people are lazy and think a lot of jobs are beneth them... What's the point to the OP?

There is a point to the OP.
However, I can't say the same about your post.

humanji

P_1 wrote:

It is perfectly legal, you can discriminate on the basis of nationality. What you can't discriminate on is:
Gender
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age (does not apply to a person under 16)
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller community.

They're not discriminating based on nationality. It's based on location.

P_1

humanji wrote: »

They're not discriminating based on nationality. It's based on location.

True, nationality/location = pretty much the same difference though.

Either way it's still legal to discriminate based on them

Oranage2

This country is such a joke, it really reminds me of London in the 70s!

'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish'

ejmaztec

xLexie wrote: »

Most Irish people are lazy and think a lot of jobs are beneth them... What's the point to the OP?

I'm too lazy to quit my job.

fangee

P_1 wrote: »

It is perfectly legal, you can discriminate on the basis of nationality. What you can't discriminate on is:
Gender
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age (does not apply to a person under 16)
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller community.

Who said anything about discrimination ?

I'm sure it's all about the bottom line.

No point jumping aboard the xenophobia boat just yet although it does seem to be becoming the Irish way these days.

CruelCoin

Fully Established wrote: »

I find it hard to believe this but i was thinking if the government are so serious about getting people back to work they would stop this exploitation by some Irish companies.

How is it explotation? Since when is not hiring Irish "Explotation"?

Fully Established

xLexie wrote: »

Most Irish people are lazy and think a lot of jobs are beneth them... What's the point to the OP?

You have an amazing view on things thankfully i dont associate with people of your mindset .

TheBikeGuy wrote: »

Very few Irish can speak a second language, thats why most of these people are being recruited

I dont think it is completely down to languages in some cases it probably is.

fangee wrote: »

If true I presume it's perfectly legal.

Not too sure but why not look at our own experienced people before looking outside the country .

kjl wrote: »

And who exactly are they going to employ? The majority of people on the Dole are ex-construction workers. They are hardly going to be recruited to design software.

Ireland needs to focus on education, this is the only way people are going to get work in a down turn economy.

There are more than ex construction workers on the dole , we already have the educated people here we need to keep them here and stop exporting them by the hour , but these Irish companies are only contributing to this.

humanji

P_1 wrote: »

True, nationality/location = pretty much the same difference though.

Either way it's still legal to discriminate based on them

But they're nowhere near the same. They're not refusing to hire Irish people. They're hiring the cheapest labour they can find, regardless of where they are from.

HondaSami

Fully Established wrote: »

Finally just to find out the public opinion on this would naming the companies maybe shame them to change things ?

Thank You

What companies are we talking about? how many Irish are employed compared to non Irish? what qualifications are required?

No point in saying companies are not hiring Irish unless there is proof. If a job is advertised the best person/ most qualified should get it regardless of nationality.

fangee

Quote:
Originally Posted by fangee
If true I presume it's perfectly legal.
Not too sure but why not look at our own experienced people before looking outside the country .


One word. Profit.

Rented Mule

Are they 'Irish companies' or companies who happen to be based in Ireland ?

squod

HondaSami wrote: »

No point in saying companies are not hiring Irish unless there is proof. If a job is advertised the best person/ most qualified should get it regardless of nationality.

Doesn't happen in some cases. Loads of unskilled workers still come over here to work. I don't put it down to lazy Irish, jobs are beneath them type pigeon-holing. Some employers are just cnuts.

HondaSami

squod wrote: »

Doesn't happen in some cases. Loads of unskilled workers still come over here to work. I don't put it down to lazy Irish, jobs are beneath them type pigeon-holing. Some employers are just cnuts.

Yes I agree, i think some employers feel foreign workers are more hard working than the Irish, (might be right in some cases) but there are hard working Irish out there also.

Anyone

Before people start jumping on the outrage wagon, remember this thread is based on what one person said to another in a pub on a Saturday night.

squod

HondaSami wrote: »

Yes I agree, i think some employers feel foreign workers are more hard working than the Irish, (might be right in some cases) but there are hard working Irish out there also.

Whole lot of lazy foreigners IMO.

Anyone wrote: »

Before people start jumping on the outrage wagon, remember this thread is based on what one person said to another in a pub on a Saturday night.

Grrrrrrrrrr.

Fully Established

CruelCoin wrote: »

How is it explotation? Since when is not hiring Irish "Explotation"?

Ok do you think it's right that an Irish company makes it's money in Ireland by not using local skilled people ?

SEANoftheDEAD

I was made redundant at the end of 2008 (I was a warehouse worker)... had a spell on job seekers, emigration didn't appeal to me due to non-permanent visas so started college in September 2010 finished in May 2012. Started 9 month job bridge straight after, got hired by the company this month. Back in the game!

Re-training is the way to go. "work" dosn't just land on you're door step. Ye need to focus on what ye want to do and put the work in.
Not braging here either, just saying that there are jobs in this country, mostly for skilled workers, but if you're staying put then ye need to get your ass in gear so that you get one of the jobs available.

B.A._Baracus

kjl wrote: »

And who exactly are they going to employ? The majority of people on the Dole are ex-construction workers. They are hardly going to be recruited to design software.

How do you know the majority are ex-construction workers?

A rather bold, unfounded and incorrect claim to make about the 14.9% of people currently unemployed.

CruelCoin

Fully Established wrote: »

Ok do you think it's right that an Irish company makes it's money in Ireland by not using local skilled people ?

A company has a duty to its shareholders, not the local populace.
Nationalism has no place in business.

Why buy facility materials elsewhere when it can be sourced here for example? I'll tell you why, any (read ANY) industry is larger and better developed on the continent than it is here.
As a result the product offering is far greater elsewhere.

I work in wholesale Horticulture for example, and i can tell you I'd far rather buy tunnel materials from Holland than i would from mick down the road. Quality just does not compare.

Do i feel bad about this? Not a jot.

It has been said elsewhere in the thread that many Irish don't know a second language, which is becoming ever more important.
The Irish are also vastly more expensive than similarly qualified staff sourced elsewhere.
If Irish people want to be hired in these contracting situations, then there needs to be a wholesale reduction in wage expectations, else it will just continue.

CruelCoin

SEANoftheDEAD wrote: »

I was made redundant at the end of 2008 (I was a warehouse worker)... had a spell on job seekers, emigration didn't appeal to me due to non-permanent visas so started college in September 2010 finished in May 2012. Started 9 month job bridge straight after, got hired by the company this month. Back in the game!

Re-training is the way to go. "work" dosn't just land on you're door step. Ye need to focus on what ye want to do and put the work in.
Not braging here either, just saying that there are jobs in this country, mostly for skilled workers, but if you're staying put then ye need to get your ass in gear so that you get one of the jobs available.

Even those still in work need to keep training.

The amount of people with qualifications is on the constant rise, and people need to stay ahead of the average, experience or no.
I'm in solid work, but i still feel it wise to go back to college and work towards a part-time masters as i am doing now.

Grayson

the company I'm working for has it's EU headquarters in ireland and is hiring about 500 people more. Most will be foreign, but it's because they'll be supporting foreign markets. An irish person who spoke french/dutch/german etc could apply, but most don't speak a language fluently enough.

Pity they don't hire irish speakers. But then again, most people can't speak irish either.

SEANoftheDEAD

.........

kjl

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

How do you know the majority are ex-construction workers?

A rather bold, unfounded and incorrect claim to make about the 14.9% of people currently unemployed.

Let me think about that, maybe because the entire construction industry in Ireland went down when the property bubble burst.

kjl

SEANoftheDEAD wrote: »

100% agreed! I only done two years of college, and what I got out of it was enough to land a full time job. It'd be stupid to stop now. I'll be looking at night school a little later on in the year so I can "climb the ladder".

haha have to make myself resession proof

Perhaps you could take a grammar class.

SEANoftheDEAD

Well I was an early school leaver...

ejmaztec

I suppose the best things to get the Irish back to work would be 450,000 new jobs, or free one way plane tickets to the country of your choice.

Where To

Maybe people should concentrate on getting themselves back to work rather than waiting for the job fairy to magically get them back in employment.

boomshakalaka

Grayson wrote: »

the company I'm working for has it's EU headquarters in ireland and is hiring about 500 people more. Most will be foreign, but it's because they'll be supporting foreign markets. An irish person who spoke french/dutch/german etc could apply, but most don't speak a language fluently enough.

Pity they don't hire irish speakers. But then again, most p eople can't speak irish either.

Off topic: Where is this company and are they hiring dutch speakers right now? I'm looking for a job and fluent in Dutch and English.

stevenmu

If we're going to complain about Irish companies hiring foreign people, are we also going to complain about foreign companies (such as Intel, Microsoft, HP, Google etc) hiring Irish people?

Fully Established

Do you understand that every thing in business is not all about a single physical product eg. (production line ) brought to the market to sell . Some business rely on the specialist knowledge and skill of their staff to ultimately bring a product to the market to sell .
So my point being if the expertise is here why not give them a chance and you contribute to the local economy and this also has a positive knock on effect .
I personally am aware of other countries that have a local first policy and then if not found locally then look elsewhere is this right ?

squod

CruelCoin wrote: »

A company has a duty to its shareholders, not the local populace.
Nationalism has no place in business.

Why buy facility materials elsewhere when it can be sourced here for example? I'll tell you why, any (read ANY) industry is larger and better developed on the continent than it is here.
As a result the product offering is far greater elsewhere.

I work in wholesale Horticulture for example, and i can tell you I'd far rather buy tunnel materials from Holland than i would from mick down the road. Quality just does not compare.


The Irish are also vastly more expensive than similarly qualified staff sourced elsewhere.

Sounds like you have a large chip on yer shoulders. If you like foreign stuff so much why don't you just go and live somewhere foreign?

Grayson

boomshakalaka wrote: »

Off topic: Where is this company and are they hiring dutch speakers right now? I'm looking for a job and fluent in Dutch and English.

CYPM

DoesNotCompute

Fully Established wrote: »

So my point being if the expertise is here why not give them a chance and you contribute to the local economy and this also has a positive knock on effect .

But a lot of Irish people don't have the skills to fill the jobs. That's the point.

i.e. The Irish (generally) don't have the ability to speak another European language sufficiently well to fill these jobs - not in the same way that, say, a Dutch native could speak Dutch and English equally well.

Grayson

squod wrote: »

Sounds like you have a large chip on yer shoulders. If you like foreign stuff so much why don't you just go and live somewhere foreign?

I'm pretty certain that you've put me on ignore, so you probably won't see this, but I can guarentee that the computer your using wasn't made using parts made in ireland. You might have a bit of an intel processor, or it might have been assembled by Dell (Who only assemble, but don't make parts).
But most of your computer wasn't mined, refined, manufactured or assembled in ireland.

If you want to stay true to principles, you'd best get offline now.

Fully Established

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

But a lot of Irish people don't have the skills to fill the jobs. That's the point.

i.e. The Irish (generally) don't have the ability to speak another European language sufficiently well to fill these jobs - not in the same way that, say, a Dutch native could speak Dutch and English equally well.

Think you misread my point i actually stated the expertise is in certain areas in Ireland already.

Fully Established

humanji wrote: »

But they're nowhere near the same. They're not refusing to hire Irish people. They're hiring the cheapest labour they can find, regardless of where they are from.

Not necessarily these new recruits go straight in on the standard pay scale .

miker1983

Fully Established wrote: »

Hi folks
Just to find out opinions on this , over the weekend i was out with friends and got talking to a girl in our company , I was very surprised with what she was telling me .
To cut a long story short she was saying that some Irish companies are actively recruiting outside of Ireland for jobs in Ireland so then i was thinking well may be the right people are not here to which i was told it was cheaper to bring in contract staff for the busy periods and these periods can be up to eight months long, than employ a suitably qualified Irish person .

I find it hard to believe this but i was thinking if the government are so serious about getting people back to work they would stop this exploitation by some Irish companies . I have also forgot to mention that the companies doing these practices are profit making businesses. With these sort of practices going on i would imagine Ireland is a long way from recovering.

Finally just to find out the public opinion on this would naming the companies maybe shame them to change things ?

Thank You

My company does the same, although they advertise the contract positions openly. There's not enough Irish people qualified to do the high skill/experience contract jobs. I'm sure my boss would love to hire more Irish but if it's a choice between an Irish person with 3 years experience and a Spanish or Indian person with 8-10 years, then the Irish person is going to lose out every time.

Like another poster said, there are jobs out there but unfortunately a lot of people on the dole are not qualified especially in the areas of IT, Engineering etc.

Fully Established

miker1983 wrote: »

My company does the same, although they advertise the contract positions openly. There's not enough Irish people qualified to do the high skill/experience contract jobs. I'm sure my boss would love to hire more Irish but if it's a choice between an Irish person with 3 years experience and a Spanish or Indian person with 8-10 years, then the Irish person is going to lose out every time.

Like another poster said, there are jobs out there but unfortunately a lot of people on the dole are not qualified especially in the areas of IT, Engineering etc.

I think you and a few other posters may have misread my post i actually said the suitably qualified people are in fact here in Ireland.