Interracial dating - the Irish perspective

lilium inter Spinas

I've been in a long-distance relationship a bit over half a year now and to be honest, I'd never given much deep thought into the potential cultural clashes that could exist between us... until now. Don't get me wrong, we're both aware that going into this relationship wasn't going to be a walk in the park but race or ethnicity didn't factor in the major foreseeable problems.

The issue came about when I asked about his mum and how she took the news of him dating. His answer made my heart drop. Mum is happy he found someone, but it upsets her that I'm neither living in Ireland nor of Irish descent. I was born and raised in the US, living here currently and am of Mexican/Spanish descent. I've always been one to try and break both the taboos and stereotypical 'norms' that exist both within my own culture and that of others so I'm trying very hard to understand the basis for her concerns.

Can someone maybe give me some insight to this topic? Is interracial dating generally not accepted in Ireland? More specifically in Dublin? What can I expect from a traditional Irish mother with this kind of mindset?

I'm going to Dublin to visit in the summer, and I was looking forward to meet my boyfriend's mum... but now, I'm actually pretty intimidated. I'm concerned she won't be able to see beyond my race and will let that affect her opinion of me... and worse, let it slowly start to influence my boyfriend's views. I normally wouldn't care, except I know how important mum is to my boyfriend.
Any help/comments/advice/opinions... anything really is super appreciated!

MissFlitworth

lilium inter Spinas wrote: »

Mum is happy he found someone, but it upsets her that I'm neither living in Ireland nor of Irish descent. I was born and raised in the US, living here currently

Mum is worried that your boyfriend is going to move across the pond to live with you. If you were Irish the worst she'd have to worry about is that he was going to move to Cavan to live with you.

I can't speak for your boyfriend's mother but among my friends & family interracial dating is pretty much a nonevent, I'm not saying there aren't racists in Ireland because they exist everywhere, but you're not exactly going to get people staring at you in the street. Also, half of Spain seems to live here at times, Mexican/Spanish/American & Irish is going to blend right in (even for actual racists I'm not sure Irish/Spanish would count as interracial dating here)

LegacyUser

Op, dating others from different races and backgrounds is totally accepted in Ireland and especially in Dublin. Irish mothers are loveliest mothers but again they are all different. They might say silly things sometimes but they don't mean any bad. They just want their sons to be happy and be with the right girls. My sister in law is from South east Asia. She couldn't speak English very well when she first met my family, my mom asked her very silly questions but because she had never been to the country before, it wasn't racist or being ignorant. Now my mother couldn't be happier seeing my brother happy and she gets to travel to the South East Asia more often and understands more about other culture. I don't think you should worry about it, as long as you are nice to her son and he is happy, she is happy. If she is a racist or unreasonable mom, she would be upset with her son being with any girls who are not from the same county...haha. So chill out OP, your boyfriends love for you is more important than anyones opinions. Enjoy your trip to Ireland.

username123

His mother is just afraid her son is going to move to a different country.

Cant imagine its anything to do with race, spanish/mexican wouldnt be considered a different race imo.

lilium inter Spinas

MissFlitworth wrote: »

Mum is worried that your boyfriend is going to move across the pond to live with you.

I actually never thought of that... I guess it didn't seem like an issue since the bf has lived in the States before. Granted, it wasn't very long, but he's definitely no stranger to moving around. Thanks for that! You gave me something more to think about.

MissFlitworth

lilium inter Spinas wrote: »

I actually never thought of that... I guess it didn't seem like an issue since the bf has lived in the States before. Granted, it wasn't very long, but he's definitely no stranger to moving around. Thanks for that! You gave me something more to think about.

The worry for Irish Mammys is generally that any child with wanderlust is going to 'settle' somewhere far away. They can take the travelling for prolonged periods of time or living somewhere for work for a couple of years because the assumption is that home is still Ireland & that they'll move home in the end. When their kid meets someone from another country the fear is that they'll make their home there.

lilium inter Spinas

username123 wrote: »

Cant imagine its anything to do with race, spanish/mexican wouldnt be considered a different race imo.

Seriously? This is refreshing to hear. I guess race definitions might be a bit more specific where I live then.

MissFlitworth wrote: »

The worry for Irish Mammys is generally that any child with wanderlust is going to 'settle' somewhere far away.

Is that true for any child, regardless of sex? Funny you should mention the "Irish Mammys". I was doing a Google search on Irish mothers and their relationships with their sons (after boyfriend dropped the news) which led me to this board. That particular thread really threw me for a loop. I felt pretty doomed after reading it.

clairefontaine

username123 wrote: »

His mother is just afraid her son is going to move to a different country.

Cant imagine its anything to do with race, spanish/mexican wouldnt be considered a different race imo.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. I know a few people who grew up here who were half Irish, and half Italian or Spanish and still got referred to as "half castes" and I still hear that term used here and there.

OP It could very well have to do with race or culture or geography, not just because of being Spanish/Mexican but also American too. There are some families who wouldn't want their kids marrying Protestants either. It would really depend on the traditionalism of the family.

But this is not exclusively and Irish mammy thing either. Some families are just like that. I know a Cuban American who married into an Italian American family and he had to lie and say he was part Italian to get them to drop the resistance.

Saying that, don't let it get to you. It's fear and ignorance, the usual bull****. Be polite and respectful and give her no reason to dislike you.

Benny_Cake

I think you can be certain that if she has a problem with you not living in Ireland, it's because she's worried about her son moving abroad to be with you. If she's concerned that you aren't of Irish descent, it's probably because if you did, you would perhaps be more willing to move here or have existing family connections here - ie; her son would probably be home a lot more even if living abroad. I really can't see that race would be an issue. While racism exists in Ireland, like anywhere else, interracial couples are increasingly common and few people would even notice. As others have said, most people wouldn't consider someone of Spanish / Mexican descent as being of another race - there are some amount of Spanish people living here, along with plenty of Latin Americans, mostly Brazilian and Argentinian. I'm sure once your boyfriend's mum gets to know you there will be no problems at all. Hope it works out for you!

MissFlitworth

lilium inter Spinas wrote: »

Is that true for any child, regardless of sex? Funny you should mention the "Irish Mammys". I was doing a Google search on Irish mothers and their relationships with their sons (after boyfriend dropped the news) which led me to this board.

I only mentioned Irish Mammy's cos they're the only ones I'm familiar with I think my own Mother would be upset if I was to meet someone from far away lands because she'd hate for us to move away permanently. Especially if it were somewhere out of Europe because the cost of coming to visit would seriously limit the amount of times she'd be able to see us. I don't think it's limited to Irish mothers, anywhere that's had a tradition of children emigrating is probably the same. They've seen it happen with their own brothers/uncles/sisters etc. & they don't want to wave goodbye to their kids

Colonel Panic

I used to date a Brazilian girl whose mother was of Italian descent and father Japanese and no one thought twice about it. My parents loved her and still keep in touch.

It depends on the person, there isn't one national opinion on a pasty white guy dating someone with darker skin and slightly different features.

Sean O Hara

Hi Op,

The question of race in your op is interesting.
You say you are of Spanish/Mexican descent.

1) Spanish people are Europeans and white people (although on average probably slightly darker than the Irish). If you are of wholly Spanish descent then you are white and of the same race as your boyfriend (Just a different ethnicity).

2) Mexican is a nationality and not a race. There are white Mexicans (descendants of Europeans who brought the Spanish language and culture to Mexico) in the same way as there are white Americans or Canadians.

Mexico also has a large population of mixed race individuals who are primarily of partial indigenous and European descent. Unfortunately the proportion of wholly indigenous descent is quite small at about 10% having been pushed out by the mixed and European groups.


People in Ireland know very little about race due to our historical lack of contact with other races. How you are perceived will be based on how you look. If you are mixed to some degree but look white you will be perceived as such.

I would also caution you that in my opinion the users of boards.ie are a self-selecting group who do not represent the views of average Irish people. In my experience they have a greater tendency to be socially liberal on a wide variety of issues including miscegenation.
Personally I would not have a problem with a son/daughter marrying somebody of Spanish descent but would be against them marrying an individual of indigenous Mexican descent. Ultimately people are individuals and their opinions will vary for numerous reasons in spite of the general cultural consensus. Just remember that on highly emotive topics such as race what people say and what they actually feel can be quite divergent.

Rgds,

Sean

lilium inter Spinas

clairefontaine wrote: »

There are some families who wouldn't want their kids marrying Protestants either. It would really depend on the traditionalism of the family.

Oh sweet jesus... my odds keep getting worse. ;A;

No, by all means, there's a lot of prejudice within my own culture about the type of men I should date, yadda yadda. I know if the boyfriend were to meet my parents they wouldn't exactly be ecstatic either. In their hearts they would probably like to see me date and eventually married off to a nice Mexican man, though they don't push the issue because they know me better. And they wouldn't point it out as blatantly as the bf's mother seems to have with him.

I don't know... it's kind of hard to explain what I feel. Realistically, yes, I was expecting some form of resistance from both families though nothing quite like, "My mum dislikes you cause you're not Irish."
I can sympathize with her sentiments, and thanks to everyone's input I'll hopefully be able to get to the underlying root of this issue... But it still stung a bit. =/

cantdecide

All I can offer on the subject is that IME it's highly unlikely that there is any malice behind it. In fact, I'd say any reservations would fall away on the first meeting.

lilium inter Spinas

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I think you can be certain that if she has a problem with you not living in Ireland, it's because she's worried about her son moving abroad to be with you. If she's concerned that you aren't of Irish descent, it's probably because if you did, you would perhaps be more willing to move here or have existing family connections here - ie; her son would probably be home a lot more even if living abroad.

That seems to be what most people are suggesting so far. And for all I know, the whole outburst might have been a way for bf's mother bring some attention back on her. *sigh* I really don't want to compete against the matriarch. I wonder if she'd change her tune if she knew I'd be the one willing to relocate and live out there if our relationship ever got quite serious. Then she could see him all the time. You have to make sacrifices for love, right?

Colonel Panic wrote: »

It depends on the person, there isn't one national opinion on a pasty white guy dating someone with darker skin and slightly different features.

Oh man, this had me rolling. I happen to prefer my guys a pasty white.
Noted, that Boards.ie doesn't necessarily represent the general views of a nation as Sean O Hara pointed out... but where else am I going to find a large populous of Irish people willing to talk things over with me?

I seriously appreciate all the feedback I'm getting. I'm so curious and have this almost burning desire to understand and learn to appreciate the Irish culture. Not in the creepy, fangirl way... just enough to not be moronic when I visit. And cause I have strong feelings for my OH. ^^

lilium inter Spinas

For the record, I'm relatively light skinned. The Spanish side really won over my features. I get teased a lot about my skin color actually since a lot of people (sadly, my own kind) feel I don't fall within the norms of what a Mexican is supposed to look like... wtf does that even mean?? Am I supposed to go out and get a tan, speak with an accent and wear a giant hat? jka'sljdk'ajdla'd Annoying!

Meauldsegosha

OP I echo what other posters have said, it's more to do with his mothers perception that you are going to take her precious son away to some far flung country and she is never going to see him again. That's Irish Mammies for you and probably a lot other Mammies as well.

There was a thread here, or in the Personal Issues forum, just after Christmas where a poster was upset because her boyfriends mother had made a comment that he wasn't going out with someone from his "home village". See, Irish Mammies.

I really don't think this is a race thing. Enjoy your relationship with your boyfriend, come to Ireland in the summer. We're really not a bad bunch.

niallu

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

My previous gf for a few yrs was south American and my gf of the last 3 years is Asian.

My parents never had a problem, and always said, as long I was happy, they would be happy!

I'm sure when his mum meets you she'll like you plus I don't really think Spanish / Mexican descent is to different to Irish (aside from abit of tan!)

Eve_Dublin

Just to reiterate, zero worries. My boyfriend is Spanish and nobody looked twice at him. A good friend of mine is going out with a black African from Benin for years and has been to our home town on numerous occasions (I'm from Dublin, obviously) and there were no problems. He loves it there.

Mexican/Spanish is not a different race. I think you'll find you're going to be rather popular, in fact. We have a good impression of Mexicans (fun,warm people) and Spanish (again, considered fun people...and hot). And if you've grown up in the States, you'll be considered North American. We don't go in for "ancestral heritage" here in Ireland.


You get parents and aunties saying silly things and I can guarantee you it has more to do with her son moving away and nothing at all to do with racism.


I live in Spain here and I have to put up with little comments from my boyfriend's family as well. The most recent was from an auntie who said, "It would've been nice if ____ found a local girl. He loves foreign girls!" (his last girlfriend was American Jewish). I just brush it off. The family are lovely to me but my boyfriend did say his family are afraid he'll move away. Families are close in Ireland. I have two siblings in the States married to foreigners (and another 2 here in Ireland, one also married to a foreigner) and I miss them both. The states is a long and expensive flight and I can understand how a parent would worry. My dad misses his kids terribly.

Don't worry, OP! Have a good time over here. I'm sure you'll be made feel very welcome.

Eve_Dublin

lilium inter Spinas wrote: »

For the record, I'm relatively light skinned. The Spanish side really won over my features. I get teased a lot about my skin color actually since a lot of people (sadly, my own kind) feel I don't fall within the norms of what a Mexican is supposed to look like... wtf does that even mean?? Am I supposed to go out and get a tan, speak with an accent and wear a giant hat? jka'sljdk'ajdla'd Annoying!

You won't get any of that in Ireland. We're well used to Spaniards in Ireland....and the women are usually very popular

brandom

I really do think the "Irish Mammy" worry about losing her child is whats going on here, I am Irish and dating a Canadian and when my mother first found out about it she flat out said to me "Please don't move to Canada" . I hope that in your situation its just something like this...good luck with it all

a posse ad esse

I laughed at some of the responses to this thread. The one on "half caste" had me in stitches because we were referred to this growing up by friends and family and we are Irish and Italian. We were always labelled as the "mixed family" in the village as we were literally the only ones but we never took these comments personally or discriminatory as it was always meant to be lighthearted banter.

I will say that Ireland is newer to immigration compared with England, France, Netherlands, Germany and other mainland countries in the EU. It is defnitely more multi-cultural today than what it was growing up. My parents were the first in their respective families to marry outside their culture, so for them and to our extended families it was a big deal at the time. Today, I can name many in my family that have dated someone completely outside their culture, race and/or religion. I will admit some did receive negative reactions whilst others not one batted an eyelid.

Unfortunately, we all know discrimination is alive and well in ALL societies but don't automatically assume that may be the case with your bf's mother. You need to take into consideration she has neither spoke to you or met you yet. I think she has nothing to go by about you other than where you come from. Until you both finally meet and speak to one another is when you will find out what she is really like. Until this happens there is nothing more you can do about it at the moment. Good luck.

lilium inter Spinas

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And if you've grown up in the States, you'll be considered North American. We don't go in for "ancestral heritage" here in Ireland.

I live in Spain here and I have to put up with little comments from my boyfriend's family as well.

I have mixed feelings about this. I've such a hard time identifying what culture I belong to mainly because the Mexican traditions have been bored into my brain by my parents yet I grew up in the States. I'm probably making it waaay more complicated than things are though, so I'll just stop typing now. Believe me, I know how brutal my own culture can be with their sometimes insensitive comments... especially when we start snickering in a different language. You almost always know it's about you then. Hope that isn't the case with you though Eve, and that your boyfriend's family treats you well!

a posse ad esse wrote: »

My parents were the first in their respective families to marry outside their culture, so for them and to our extended families it was a big deal at the time. Today, I can name many in my family that have dated someone completely outside their culture, race and/or religion.

I wish this was the case in my family, but I am both the first and ONLY person in both my immediate and extended family that has ever dated someone outside their culture. I've been so focused and worried about what the bf's mum would think of me when I still have to worry about how my own parents are going to react when they meet him.
Maybe we can just run away to Tahiti and avoid all this... >_>;

lilium inter Spinas

Thanks so much for all your input everyone! I'm generally feeling better about the situation now that I've (hopefully) got a better understanding of what may be the underlying issue. Now I've just gotta muster up the courage to actually face the potential MIL.
But if I meet her and she ends up hating my guts anyhow... you'll find me at the local pub, drowning my sorrows away. Drinks on me.

CaraMay

Yeah eve made a good point - we don't really do ancestral heritage here so in all reality to her, if you say you are American, she will think you are American. I think, in any event, Irish people will only have positive associations with the Mexican race should the subject even come up.

Neyite

Op, our parents generation and previous ones before had huge emigration. Back in those days, unless you just went to the UK you usually never saw your family again or if you did, it was a once-in-a-lifetime-before-you-kick-the-bucket trip home.

Both my family and my partners family have siblings abroad and the mammies were inconsolable when they had to leave, but with skype and cheaper flights they see them so often that it makes it much easier.

Now of course, you may have encountered a rare one that is prejudiced against foreigners. It may be that she is a woman who feels nobody is good enough for her son - Irish or not. But, as nice and all as it is to be accepted, you dont need her approval, just your boyfriends.

LegacyUser

I know its different in America but in Ireland its not even considered inter-racial dating to see a hispanic and an Irish person dating. You see Irish dating with Spanish and Brazilians (the two main hispanic nations in Ireland) all the time. It is extremely common and I doubt you'd even get a second look from the people who are actual racists.

gillapino

Dublin is really multi cultural, more then ever now. I can see it being much of a problem, and i'd say your boyfriend's Mum's main concern would be the moving away thing like other posters have mentioned. My sister is a long term relationship with a Chinese man, He's lived here for about 8 years and some slight cultural differences at first as well as english not being his first language, but now we consider him part of the family. The majority of people here are very open minded. I wouldnt worry.

sffc

One word - grandchildren . Perversely the "Irish Mammy" phenomenon gets stronger as they become grannies or even smell the possibility ! Its a cultural thing and while it does cause some problems it provides huge support to thousands of parents in this country . Many thousands of households are only surviving because granny minds grandchildren (often free) so both parents can work .
As has been said emigration has been a painful feature of Irish life for 150 years plus . It's in our DNA .
Forget race I don't think its an issue - culture might be and even then it may be a positive . Ireland has gone through huge change in the last thirty years particurlay in the role of women/mothers . In 2013 its just as likely that your culture means your MIL identifies more with your values than a girl down the road .

Finally if you are Catholic bring your Communion photo - great ice breaker !