The Radical Judeo-Christian War on Moderate Islam

Brown Bomber

Another year, another war on a Muslim nation by a white nation, and just a short time since the Jewish state was bombing Muslim children in Gaza.

We must fight the Islamic extremists with our right hand while we give them arms and air cover with our left hands. Nevermind that it was Western "humanitarian" intervention bombing in Libya that served as a precursor to the current conflict with the ethnic cleansing by the NATO terrorists of the Tuareg in Libya. Nevermind that it was western support of the military junta over the democratically elected party that sowed the seeds for the current conflict. I digress...

The point of this thread, or the CT if you like is that right-wing Jewish and Christian extremists, primarily US-based, are demonising Arabs/Muslims in a well-funded and coordinated propaganda campaign to legitimise the Israeli state's barbarity in the Middle East and to whip up support for the US's ceaseless wars with Muslim nations.

Sonics2k

This is no conspiracy, if anything it's a political opinion.

I do partially agree with the idea, however there are also segments of Islam that are attempting the same thing on the western world.

Brown Bomber

Sonics2k wrote: »

This is no conspiracy, if anything it's a political opinion.

It is a conspiracy. Billionaire and millionare right-wing Christians and Jews have financed through their foundations an entire industry to demonise all Muslims. This has had some devastating effects such as FOX news viewers torching Mosques, people being pushed under an incoming train for looking Muslim and the mass-murder of children in Norway.

Sonics2k wrote: »

I do partially agree with the idea, however there are also segments of Islam that are attempting the same thing on the western world.

I don't speak Arabic, Urdu etc but I don't doubt it but I would expect most of this radical output would be from the West's valuable Wahabbi ally - the House of Saud dictatorship.

In any case it is a symbiotic relationship. Both camps need each other to justify their existence, and the cycle of violence continues.

Sonics2k

Brown Bomber wrote: »

It is a conspiracy. Billionaire and millionare right-wing Christians and Jews have financed through their foundations an entire industry to demonise all Muslims. This has had some devastating effects such as FOX news viewers torching Mosques, people being pushed under an incoming train for looking Muslim and the mass-murder of children in Norway.

No its not, it's a bunch of bigots being bigots. FOX is trash, you know it, I know it, we all know it.
FOX also likes to blame video games and rap music for violence. Let's not forget this is the network that can't find Egypt on a map.

I don't speak Arabic, Urdu etc but I don't doubt it but I would expect most of this radical output would be from the West's valuable Wahabbi ally - the House of Saud dictatorship.

Yes, quite a bit of it does come from Saudi Arabia. A lot of it also comes from Muslims in the UK, Lydia, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Denmark, France, America and many other places.

It's no conspiracy. It's arseholes being arseholes on both sides.
Same crap that's been going on for damn near 2000 years.

SoulandForm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The point of this thread, or the CT if you like is that right-wing Jewish and Christian extremists, primarily US-based, are demonising Arabs/Muslims in a well-funded and coordinated propaganda campaign to legitimise the Israeli state's barbarity in the Middle East and to whip up support for the US's ceaseless wars with Muslim nations.

Judaism was traditionally opposed to Zionism which was a radical secularist movement on the fringes of Socialism. Religious jews more than any other sector of the jewish population still tend to be. Traditional Christianity is also opposed to Zionism because the re-building of the Temple is seen as one of the primary works of the Antichrist and Zionism opens up the possibility of this.

Also the Geo-political carry on of the US in the middle east in recent times have been terribly horrible for the Christian communities there showing that they are not motivated by a concern for Christianity- extreme or otherwise. If they were Christian extremists they would be supporting Assad!

The whole war on Islam or Islamic extremism is give an enemy to idiots now that the cold war is over. If the US was really interested in attacking Islamic extremism it would have gone after Saudi Arabia and not Iraq. Infact they seem to be going after moderate Islamic regimes!

SoulandForm

Sonics2k wrote: »

No its not, it's a bunch of bigots being bigots. FOX is trash, you know it, I know it, we all know it.
FOX also likes to blame video games and rap music for violence. Let's not forget this is the network that can't find Egypt on a map.

The EDL and its offshoots is a mass movement on the UK mainland- they also have a lot support in Northern Ireland (among the fleg movement for instance). Anti-Islamic hysteria is common in European countries as well. It has certainly been whipped to give some "counter-support" to degenerate and decaying West.

shedweller

I agree with the OP. Look at any movie with muslims in it and you will see them get the **** part or get humiliated, corrected, put in their place etc.
And in another type of media altogether; the internet. I frequent liveleak quite a bit and i have to say, i'm shocked at how disgusting some of the comments are to videos of muslims (or russians???)getting offed. This is in stark contrast to the comments to some american in the same situation. I'm probably not coming across here too well so just see for yourselves.
This stuff is real and ongoing. I think i've broached the subject here before too. Got dismissed iirc. Surprise surprise

Brown Bomber

Sonics2k wrote: »

No its not, it's a bunch of bigots being bigots.

Nope. You couldn't be more wrong. The "bunch of bigots being bigots" is the effect, not the cause.

Take the EDL for example. The label bunch of bigots surely applies. They exist purely to demonise Muslims and are extremely pro-Zionist and decorate themselves with Christian iconography.

They appeal to the working classes, but there exists people and groups that appeal to the other strata, The message is always the same but can be more refined to adapt to an audience. It will always try to unlock and validate the audiences hidden racism, take advantage of their ignorance, and play on their fears.

For example. while the working classed have the EDL the middle classes would have someone like the atheist Ayaan Hirsi Ali of the AEI - who get their funding, and therefore their agenda from the same sources as the most extreme anti-Islam propagandists.

This has resulted in a legion of what Lenin would've referred to as "useful idiots" of Islamophobic militant atheists who spread the propaganda thinking they are striking a blow to religion.

Brown Bomber

shedweller wrote: »

I agree with the OP. Look at any movie with muslims in it and you will see them get the **** part or get humiliated, corrected, put in their place etc.
And in another type of media altogether; the internet. I frequent liveleak quite a bit and i have to say, i'm shocked at how disgusting some of the comments are to videos of muslims (or russians???)getting offed. This is in stark contrast to the comments to some american in the same situation. I'm probably not coming across here too well so just see for yourselves.
This stuff is real and ongoing. I think i've broached the subject here before too. Got dismissed iirc. Surprise surprise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmVoSZk_fvo

This groundbreaking documentary dissects a slanderous aspect of cinematic history that has run virtually unchallenged from the earliest days of silent film to today's biggest Hollywood blockbusters. Featuring acclaimed author Dr. Jack Shaheen, the film explores a long line of degrading images of Arabs--from Bedouin bandits and submissive maidens to sinister sheikhs and gun-wielding "terrorists"--along the way offering devastating insights into the origin of these stereotypic images, their development at key points in US history, and why they matter so much today. Shaheen shows how the persistence of these images over time has served to naturalize prejudicial attitudes toward Arabs and Arab culture, in the process reinforcing a narrow view of individual Arabs and the effects of specific US domestic and international policies on their live

Brown Bomber

SoulandForm wrote: »

The EDL and its offshoots is a mass movement on the UK mainland- they also have a lot support in Northern Ireland (among the fleg movement for instance). Anti-Islamic hysteria is common in European countries as well. It has certainly been whipped to give some "counter-support" to degenerate and decaying West.

This is a really good article on the links between the anti-"Islamofascism" movement and Zionism in the European far-right. Evident'y "never again" was just an empty slogan.

The Likud Connection: Europe's Right-Wing Populists Find Allies in Israel


http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-likud-connection-europe-s-right-wing-populists-find-allies-in-israel-a-777175-2.html

Jonny7

Western's were really just a conspiracy to villianise Indians, war movies a conspiracy to demonise Germans, and sci-fi films a nerfarious plot to make us scared of aliens

SoulandForm

The EDL is very pro-pornography and pro-War. So I would say that they are in actual fact non to anti-Christian.

Also if you are going to talk about Judeo-Christian it would be best to put in Islam there as what Christianity shares with Judaism it also shares with Islam.

Brown Bomber

SoulandForm wrote: »

Judaism was traditionally opposed to Zionism which was a radical secularist movement on the fringes of Socialism. Religious jews more than any other sector of the jewish population still tend to be. Traditional Christianity is also opposed to Zionism because the re-building of the Temple is seen as one of the primary works of the Antichrist and Zionism opens up the possibility of this.

Also the Geo-political carry on of the US in the middle east in recent times have been terribly horrible for the Christian communities there showing that they are not motivated by a concern for Christianity- extreme or otherwise. If they were Christian extremists they would be supporting Assad!

The whole war on Islam or Islamic extremism is give an enemy to idiots now that the cold war is over. If the US was really interested in attacking Islamic extremism it would have gone after Saudi Arabia and not Iraq. Infact they seem to be going after moderate Islamic regimes!

Yeah, couldn't agree more. "Al Qaeda" types and Western imperialists really are the best of enemies. Western warmongering and atrocities push people and money towards Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda's atrocities and the fear they create justifies military/intelligence budgets and public support for their expansion of the empire. What could throw a spanner in the works is if people see the innocent victims in all of this as human - which is where the anti-Islam propagandists come in.

Of course Muslims are just the dehumanised enemy du jour. In a generation when the middle east has been dominated and pillaged nobody will remember what jihad or shariah was. We'll be thumping our chests about the evil Chinese.

As regards the Jewish/Zionist issue you are right, The people I am talking about here are Neocon, Jewish-Zionists and Christian-Zionists, with the Christian followers being Dispensationalists I believe.

Brown Bomber

SoulandForm wrote: »

The EDL is very pro-pornography and pro-War. So I would say that they are in actual fact non to anti-Christian.

Also if you are going to talk about Judeo-Christian it would be best to put in Islam there as what Christianity shares with Judaism it also shares with Islam.

Again I agree with you. I'm not having a go at Christianity or Christians...or Jews or Judaism for that matter. Christians and Jews are just pawns in the game. I see this as purely a cynical political agenda by people with a vested interest in war, domination and imperialism.

SoulandForm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yeah, couldn't agree more. "Al Qaeda" types and Western imperialists really are the best of enemies.

The CIA trained Al Qaeda in Afghanistan during the 1980s. Im sure that the connections have remained at some level. Also the "War on Terror" seems focused on Al Qaeda's Shia and Baathist enemies.

SoulandForm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

As regards the Jewish/Zionist issue you are right, The people I am talking about here are Neocon, Jewish-Zionists and Christian-Zionists, with the Christian followers being Dispensationalists I believe.

A lot of Christian Zionism comes from the whole "Mega-Church", "Emergent Church", "Non-denominational", current which differs in many ways from Classical Protestantism and seems to be a degeneration of the old Baptist Faith. Im going to have to do some research into it. Any of the Christian Zionists I have met have been very creepy people.

Brown Bomber

SoulandForm wrote: »

A lot of Christian Zionism comes from the whole "Mega-Church", "Emergent Church", "Non-denominational", current which differs in many ways from Classical Protestantism and seems to be a degeneration of the old Baptist Faith. Im going to have to do some research into it. Any of the Christian Zionists I have met have been very creepy people.

If it helps Ilan Pappe is good on this but the best information that I've read is from another Jewish Professor whose name escapes me just now (Nevesky) - it'll come back to me.

EDIT:

It's Mezvinsky and here he is talking about Christian ZIonism, if you are interested - part 1 of 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EwMv1YKT68

SoulandForm

Actually I worked with a Christian Zionist girl and she was scary. She was always smiling (Im suspect of people who are always in a good mood) and "sweetness and light" however she criticized the Israelis for not just killing off all the Palestinians- Im not joking, it seems a lot of American "Christian" zionists believe this. Of course many Palestinians are actual Christians and most Palestinians have better claim to be genetically connected to the ancient Hebrews than most Israelis do. Her presence made me feel physically sick on occasion. The other Christian Zionist I knew was a guy who would go on about "God" and than would start sleazing on me. A male friend told me he was seriously into porn.

asherbassad

It's typical western (read US) propaganda and it appeals to the mindless masses who can't think for themselves. In the 80's when Reagan's death squads were slaughtering nuns and peasants in Guatamala, El Salvador and Honduras, the villain du jour was the moustachioed Latino General holding poor fucking American students hostage or some shit. He invariably wore a green combat uniform and was portrayed as cowardly/sexually sleazy to add to the disdain for Latin American people in general. Schwarzenegger or some other low rent gobdaw would ultimately vanquish the tyrant. Of course all through this period Russians were portrayed as either cold-hearted Kremlin types or sappy youths yearning to reach America...such bollocks. This crap works though. When I lived in the States I had idiots tell me "this is the greatest country in the world. Everyone wants to come here!" And these fools were living crap lives. They had mediocre jobs with 2 weeks vacation, at lame wages, they drove crap cars and rented bland apartments in fairly crap areas. Yet they actually believed that a German cop or a Swedish teacher or an English secretary with their infinitely better lives would swap place with them in a heartbeat. I tried to explain to them people in other countries were better off than them and they just couldn't bring themselves to contemplate such a thing. Tell them that a barmaid in Amsterdam gets full medical coverage, holiday pay, maternity leave and can afford 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year and they'll try to invent some caveat to downgrade the situation like "yeah but Holland is a crap country and everyone's addicted to drugs and nothing works there".
With stupidity like that it's easy for them to believe that Muslims want to take over the world.

Once the pieces are in place in Africa to control the entire Northern Continent (Mali, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia) then the propaganda campaign against China will begin in earnest. And instead of mosques in Dearborn Michigan being torched or daubed with hate slogans, you'll see bricks crashing through the windows of the Jade Garden Cafe or Ming Dynasty TakeAway.
A few dodgy movies and one or two (fake) headlines or news stories about eskimos raping white women and stockpiling chemical agents and the majority of Americans would be clamouring for the Marines to swoop into Alaska and evacuate whites before napalming the place and killing every Inuit in sight, such is their stupidity.

Hourglass Shrugged

Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Rich Middle-East oil nations (like Saudi Arabia) funding western Starbucks-socialists to launch a hypocritical smear campaign against Israel and to promote the use of the ridiculous nonsensical term that is "Islamophobia".

SoulandForm

Hourglass Shrugged wrote: »

Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Rich Middle-East oil nations (like Saudi Arabia) funding western Starbucks-socialists to launch a hypocritical smear campaign against Israel and to promote the use of the ridiculous nonsensical term that is "Islamophobia".

Saudi Arabia is an ally of Israel and US Imperialism so them funding Starbucks-socialists (what would they be when they are at home?) is extremely unlikely.

Hourglass Shrugged

SoulandForm wrote: »

Saudi Arabia is an ally of Israel and US Imperialism so them funding Starbucks-socialists (what would they be when they are at home?) is extremely unlikely.

Or funding organisation/smear campaigns that get starbuck-socialists riled up at home.

JustinDee

asherbassad wrote: »

It's typical western (read US) propaganda and it appeals to the mindless masses who can't think for themselves. In the 80's when Reagan's death squads were slaughtering nuns and peasants in Guatamala, El Salvador and Honduras, the villain du jour was the moustachioed Latino General holding poor fucking American students hostage or some shit. He invariably wore a green combat uniform and was portrayed as cowardly/sexually sleazy to add to the disdain for Latin American people in general. Schwarzenegger or some other low rent gobdaw would ultimately vanquish the tyrant. Of course all through this period Russians were portrayed as either cold-hearted Kremlin types or sappy youths yearning to reach America...such bollocks. This crap works though. When I lived in the States I had idiots tell me "this is the greatest country in the world. Everyone wants to come here!" And these fools were living crap lives. They had mediocre jobs with 2 weeks vacation, at lame wages, they drove crap cars and rented bland apartments in fairly crap areas. Yet they actually believed that a German cop or a Swedish teacher or an English secretary with their infinitely better lives would swap place with them in a heartbeat. I tried to explain to them people in other countries were better off than them and they just couldn't bring themselves to contemplate such a thing. Tell them that a barmaid in Amsterdam gets full medical coverage, holiday pay, maternity leave and can afford 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year and they'll try to invent some caveat to downgrade the situation like "yeah but Holland is a crap country and everyone's addicted to drugs and nothing works there".
With stupidity like that it's easy for them to believe that Muslims want to take over the world

Yeah, generalisms are so trite, aren't they . . . ? Can't beat the auld anecdotal route. :rolleyes:

Brown Bomber

Hourglass Shrugged wrote: »

promote the use of the ridiculous nonsensical term that is "Islamophobia".

Anti-semitism is to Jews/Judaism as Islamophobia is to Moslems/Islam. i.e. an irrational hatred of X, Y or Z.

So where are you coming from exactly? Is it that any hatred (possibly yours) of Islam and/or Muslims is deserved and therefore rational?

I'm aware that some white supremacists and Salafists think along these lines re anti-semitism; that is "Anti-semitic and proud!"

Is this the category that you would fall into - "Islamophobic and proud!!"?

Brown Bomber

SoulandForm wrote: »

Actually I worked with a Christian Zionist girl and she was scary. She was always smiling (Im suspect of people who are always in a good mood) and "sweetness and light" however she criticized the Israelis for not just killing off all the Palestinians- Im not joking, it seems a lot of American "Christian" zionists believe this. Of course many Palestinians are actual Christians and most Palestinians have better claim to be genetically connected to the ancient Hebrews than most Israelis do. Her presence made me feel physically sick on occasion. The other Christian Zionist I knew was a guy who would go on about "God" and than would start sleazing on me. A male friend told me he was seriously into porn.

They are an odd breed alright. It's frightening that that they are so numerous and politically powerful. Have you seen Max Blumenthal interview people at a Hagee convention (I think)? Scary stuff, yet you almost never hear a word about them.

I was watching God-tv last night. These are the same people who finance the ethnic cleansing of the Beduoin from the Negev, theyd raised over a million pounds for Israel.

humanji

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Anti-semitism is to Jews/Judaism as Islamophobia is to Moslems/Islam. i.e. an irrational hatred of X, Y or Z.

So where are you coming from exactly? Is it that any hatred (possibly yours) of Islam and/or Muslims is deserved and therefore rational?

I'm aware that some white supremacists and Salafists think along these lines re anti-semitism; that is "Anti-semitic and proud!"

Is this the category that you would fall into - "Islamophobic and proud!!"?

You threw a hissy fit when someone called you anti-semetic, so there's no real reason why you should find it acceptable to call someone islamaphobic.

dlofnep

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Anti-semitism is to Jews/Judaism as Islamophobia is to Moslems/Islam. i.e. an irrational hatred of X, Y or Z.

No it is not. One can dislike the teachings of Islam, without disliking Muslims. Anti-semitism is not a criticism of religious dogma, but rather hatred towards a collective of people. They are not the same thing.

There certainly exists Xenophobia towards Muslims, and to a wider extent - Arabs. But this is not Islamophobia. Islamophobia is a erroneous term, which lacks any validity.

I do not like Islam. Does that make me an Islamophobe?

SoulandForm

dlofnep wrote: »

I do not like Islam. Does that make me an Islamophobe?

Do you know enough about Islam to dislike it?

The thing about most Anti-Islam militants in the west is that they are shockingly ignorant of the religion that they hate so much and are prepared to riot over.

Brown Bomber

SoulandForm wrote: »

Do you know enough about Islam to dislike it?

I've discussed this with him before and I can say he certainly does not.

He put forward a scary sounding Quranic verse with a how about this then! attitude. The only problem was that it was a fake quote only found on the various anti-Muslim hate sites, which gives a good indication of his sources for his "knowledge" on Islam.

I pointed this out to him. Unperturbed he solidered on and posted some more out of context quotes from the Quran. I put one into context and proved that the actual meaning was a million miles away from his claim based on the out of context Quran snippet of "Look! Muslims! Eveeel! - This what they believe!!!"

His response was to ignore it.

Brown Bomber

dlofnep wrote: »

No it is not. One can dislike the teachings of Islam, without disliking Muslims. Anti-semitism is not a criticism of religious dogma, but rather hatred towards a collective of people. They are not the same thing.

There certainly exists Xenophobia towards Muslims, and to a wider extent - Arabs. But this is not Islamophobia. Islamophobia is a erroneous term, which lacks any validity.

I do not like Islam. Does that make me an Islamophobe?

Is the hypothethical Christian mother in the Mid West of America who doesn't want her son to be schooled by the local Jewish-convert teacher because she thinks that it's in the Jewish religion that Jews want to kill her child to use it's blood in a ritual anti-semitic?

And if Islamophobia doesn't exist what precisely was Breivik's motivation to carry out his attacks?

dlofnep

SoulandForm wrote: »

Do you know enough about Islam to dislike it?

I know enough. I know that homosexuality is prohibited in Islam, and punishable by death in some Muslim majority countries. Even where it is not punishable by death, it is punishable by lengthy prison sentences. This is reflected as the worst records with respect to recognizing the rights of the LGBT community are within declared Islamic states, or Muslim majority countries.

I know that Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. This forces people in many countries, or regions to remain Muslim even when it is against their wishes. I know that within Islam, true free speech does not exist - and any criticisms of Muhammad are dealt with harshly (justified via the Qur'an).

The Qur'an is filled from front to back with hatred, violence and intolerance.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

dlofnep

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've discussed this with him before and I can say he certainly does not.

He put forward a scary sounding Quranic verse with a how about this then! attitude. The only problem was that it was a fake quote only found on the various anti-Muslim hate sites, which gives a good indication of his sources for his "knowledge" on Islam.

Could you find this quote? And could you please show me where I'm incorrect on my previous post.

dlofnep

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Is the hypothethical Christian mother in the Mid West of America who doesn't want her son to be schooled by the local Jewish-convert teacher because she thinks that it's in the Jewish religion that Jews want to kill her child to use it's blood in a ritual anti-semitic?

People are entitled to choose what content they wish to have their child taught. You've been very vague. Is it a Jewish teacher, or a former Jewish person who has converted to Christianity?

If someone treats someone wrong because they are Jewish, it is anti-semitic.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And if Islamophobia doesn't exist what precisely was Breivik's motivation to carry out his attacks?

Xenophobia at the most extreme levels. A word that apparently doesn't exist in your vocabulary.

I can dislike Islam, without disliking Muslims. That is fair critique of religion. If however I disliked all Muslims, that would be xenophobia and prejudice towards Muslims. You don't seem to be able to grasp this very simple concept.

Islam is a vile ideology. Am I an Islamophobe?

SoulandForm

Islam is a Religion and not an ideology.

Also there are many different forms of Islam which vary quite a bit.

To just say Islam full stop is vile does come across as bigoted.

SoulandForm

dlofnep wrote: »

I know enough. I know that homosexuality is prohibited in Islam, and punishable by death in some Muslim majority countries. Even where it is not punishable by death, it is punishable by lengthy prison sentences. This is reflected as the worst records with respect to recognizing the rights of the LGBT community are within declared Islamic states, or Muslim majority countries.

Under the Code of Justinian- the Christian code of law par excellence homosexuality merited the death penalty, Orthodox Jews today believe that homosexuality merits the death penalty. Homosexuality is prohibited in most Religions- including most of Buddhism and Hinduism- because besides being disgusting to normal people other bad traits tend to go along with it. By attacking Islam for its attitude to homosexuality you are attacking the vast majority of the human race.

All that said historically Islam was a lot more easy going on homosexuality than Christian countries.

SoulandForm

dlofnep wrote: »

I know that Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. This forces people in many countries, or regions to remain Muslim even when it is against their wishes. I know that within Islam, true free speech does not exist - and any criticisms of Muhammad are dealt with harshly (justified via the Qur'an).
.

In some forms of Islam it is. Not in all forms.

JustinDee

SoulandForm wrote: »

In some forms of Islam it is. Not in all forms.

Thats okay then . . . *













* and no, I'm not an anti-Islamist.

SoulandForm

JustinDee wrote: »

Thats okay then . . . .

Where did I say its okay? I personally dont think it is.

dlofnep

SoulandForm wrote: »

Under the Code of Justinian- the Christian code of law par excellence homosexuality merited the death penalty, Orthodox Jews today believe that homosexuality merits the death penalty.

I dislike Christianity and Judaism also, so you can save the weight balancing act.

SoulandForm wrote: »

Homosexuality is prohibited in most Religions- including most of Buddhism and Hinduism- because besides being disgusting to normal people

I am a 'normal person', and I do not find it disgusting. The majority of the population of this country do not find it disgusting. The majority of the population of this country support same-sex marriage. And you have the audacity to call me bigoted?

SoulandForm wrote: »

other bad traits tend to go along with it.

What bad traits go along with homosexuality exactly?

SoulandForm wrote: »

By attacking Islam for its attitude to homosexuality you are attacking the vast majority of the human race.

I'm not interested in what the majority of the human race thinks about homosexuality. I know that in the Western world where I live, homosexuality is socially accepted and recognised.

SoulandForm wrote: »

All that said historically Islam was a lot more easy going on homosexuality than Christian countries.

No, they are both about equal. Both have imprisoned and murdered people, because of their sexuality.

SoulandForm

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm not interested in what the majority of the human race thinks about homosexuality. I know that in the Western world where I live, homosexuality is socially accepted and recognised.
.

This is extremely recent and a product of social engineering- most people if they are honest have cognitive dissoance on this issue.

And remember that the laws against homosexuality in both Northern Ireland and the Republic were only changed because the EU forced them too.

dlofnep

SoulandForm wrote: »

This is extremely recent and a product of social engineering- most people if they are honest have cognitive dissoance on this issue.

And remember that the laws against homosexuality in both Northern Ireland and the Republic were only changed because the EU forced them too.

So, you're a homophobe? That's nice. So long as you accept that you are bigoted. Laws against homosexuality changed because it was no longer feasible to condemn people for something as benign as sexuality. The world is gradually moving on from such archaic views.

Brown Bomber

dlofnep wrote: »

I know enough. I know that homosexuality is prohibited in Islam, and punishable by death in some Muslim majority countries. Even where it is not punishable by death, it is punishable by lengthy prison sentences. This is reflected as the worst records with respect to recognizing the rights of the LGBT community are within declared Islamic states, or Muslim majority countries.

I know that Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. This forces people in many countries, or regions to remain Muslim even when it is against their wishes. I know that within Islam, true free speech does not exist - and any criticisms of Muhammad are dealt with harshly (justified via the Qur'an).

The Qur'an is filled from front to back with hatred, violence and intolerance.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

Well for a start apostasy is not punishable by death according to the Quran. In fact the opposite is true.

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
http://quran.com/2/256/

The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve."
http://quran.com/18

You are treating Islam and Muslims as a homogenous group when nothing could be further from the truth. Worse, you are conflating the worst actions of fundamentalist dictators with over a billion people that cross many borders and cultures. This is compounded by your rush to judgement despite your ignorance. The Quran is not cover to cover violence and hatred. For example, here is a verse that was chosen by Harvard Law School to appear on their library as a symbol of justice.

Qur’an (622 CE)
“O ye who believe!
Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses
To Allah, even as againstYourselves, or your parents,
Or your kin, and whether
It be (against) rich or poor:
For Allah can best protect both.”
http://library.law.harvard.edu/justicequotes/explore-the-room/west/

Brown Bomber

dlofnep wrote: »

Could you find this quote? And could you please show me where I'm incorrect on my previous post.

Explained here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73910708

Further explained: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73943688&postcount=170

I did take the first one as an example. It was presented as a commandment of Allah to "kill the infidel!". This wasn't the case as I found out by trying to put the text into context from unbiased sources. The reality was that it was explaining the divine intervention that led to a famous victory for the Muslims (believers) over the Meccanites (unbelievers) in the Battle of Badr. The Muslims were significantly outnumbered but they still won the battle. The verse relates to this. Supposedly Allah had his Angels fighting alongside the Muslims (believers) in the battle which led to victory. The message of violence was not one against infidels (you and me) but against the "unbelievers" in a specific battle.

Brown Bomber

dlofnep wrote: »

People are entitled to choose what content they wish to have their child taught. You've been very vague. Is it a Jewish teacher, or a former Jewish person who has converted to Christianity?

If someone treats someone wrong because they are Jewish, it is anti-semitic.



Xenophobia at the most extreme levels. A word that apparently doesn't exist in your vocabulary.

I can dislike Islam, without disliking Muslims. That is fair critique of religion. If however I disliked all Muslims, that would be xenophobia and prejudice towards Muslims. You don't seem to be able to grasp this very simple concept.

Islam is a vile ideology. Am I an Islamophobe?

Potentially yes. I don't know you so I can't say.

It's true you can dislike Islam without disliking Muslims but there is little if any daylight between hating Islam and hating Muslims as so much of a Muslims identity is tied into their religion.

Personally I "dislike" violent Islamism and extremist fundamentalist Islam but you haven't made any distinctions yet...

whydoc

dlofnep wrote: »

The Qur'an is filled from front to back with hatred, violence and intolerance.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

here

SoulandForm

At the OP- serious Christians are very wary about any violence. As a Christian I believe that Islam is a false Religion but at the same time I can see a lot of good in it that I wont deny and I can see that there is a lot of common ground. Im very opposed to the painting of all Muslims with the Wahabi brush and misrepresenting Islam as something its not.

I think though that you should look at the New Atheism so-called- it seems to be supplying the ideology behind recent Imperialist adventures in reality more so than any warping of Christianity.

Brown Bomber

SoulandForm wrote: »

At the OP- serious Christians are very wary about any violence. As a Christian I believe that Islam is a false Religion but at the same time I can see a lot of good in it that I wont deny and I can see that there is a lot of common ground. Im very opposed to the painting of all Muslims with the Wahabi brush and misrepresenting Islam as something its not.

I think though that you should look at the New Atheism so-called- it seems to be supplying the ideology behind recent Imperialist adventures in reality more so than any warping of Christianity.

Militant atheism is definitely a strand of the advancement of Western imperialism through war. Either through the facade of "humanitarian" pretexts for invasion or the pre-emptive "self-defense" pretext. We either need to bomb, kill invade then dominate these Islamic crazies to save ourselves or to save them from themselves and their violent religion.

I'm not entirely sure if it self-serving or not. Take Sam Harris for example:

Sam Harris, uncovered

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/sam-harris-uncovered.html
Sam Harris in full: court intellectual, mystic, and supporter of the Iraq war

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/sam-harris-in-full-court-intellectual-mystic-and-supporter-of-the-iraq-war.html

He has made a lot of money out of his anti-Islam vitriol. He arrived late to the party but was able to tap into the anti-Islamic sentiment prevailing in the wake of 9/11.

To continue his affluent lifestyle provided by his speaking tours, donations and bestsellers he needs an audience that buys into his spin and hate speech so he has a vested interest to keep the wheels churning.

Hitchens on the other hand became Iraq War/WMD cheerleader-in-chief and ultimately discredited himself as a Neocon propagandist.

I would like to emphasise finally that I don't consider it any warping of Christianity or Judaism. It's that the demonising of Muslims and Arabs traces back to Daddy Warbucks types in the shadows who are also funding of Jewish and Christian right-wing groups. These people are also tied into war profiteering and have a vested interest in the dehumanisation of Muslims as invariably they are and will be the victims of the wars they also support.

Brown Bomber

An excellent piece in the Guardian by Glenn Greenwald on the above

Sam Harris, the New Atheists, and anti-Muslim animus
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/sam-harris-muslim-animus

Brown Bomber

The latest Zionist-funded, anti-Muslim propaganda wing is exposed, this time in Norway.

Oslo Freedom Forum founder’s ties to Islamophobes who inspired mass killer Anders Breivik
http://electronicintifada.net/content/oslo-freedom-forum-founders-ties-islamophobes-who-inspired-mass-killer-anders-breivik/12451

rick santorums gimp

Brown Bomber wrote: »

An excellent piece in the Guardian by Glenn Greenwald on the above

Sam Harris, the New Atheists, and anti-Muslim animus
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/sam-harris-muslim-animus

Ian Murphy, editor of The Beast writes great pieces. Very witty. "Only a shill or a professional philosopher could arrive at his position without realizing (or admitting) how utterly full of **** they are.":pac:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/sam-harris-worlds-dumbest-atheist-his-latest-rant-guns-points-yes?paging=off

stuar

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This has resulted in a legion of what Lenin would've referred to as "useful idiots" of Islamophobic militant atheists who spread the propaganda thinking they are striking a blow to religion.

I'd call them usefull useless idiots..............an example.

Iraqi's putting their laws on London?.........erm?:rolleyes:, a total wolf idiot in sheeps idiots clothing.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL1jDcAHkc8

His mother must be so proud of raising a total tool/fool, I think the EDL should vet their members a little more closely.