40 years ago today - Greatest try ever ?

Lapin

Always worth watching !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwCbG4I0QyA

Mod edit to embed video.

rchendz92

Jeeze, when I was taught to tackle, it was either to go for the legs or the ball...were they taught to tackle round the neck back then?! Great score still!

duckysauce

crackin try

ckeego

duckysauce wrote: »

crackin try

It still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand everytime I watch that try...Awesome.

Some difference in the lineouts and tackliong laws 40 years on...

frozenfrozen

A much more dangerous game back then it seems. would have definitely been at least one yellow if that happened today. Great try

JustinDee

Quinnell to Edwards = Forward pass.

Great to watch though.

ckeego

The sidesteps by Phil Bennett at the start of the play are outrageous:)

Benjii Marshall is the only modern player to have truly mastered that one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifxOPvzLDRA

Clareman

Great try, but not the greatest ever cause it was scored in a challenge match, sorry, but imvho for a score to be counted as 1 of the best ever it has to be scored in a competitive match.

JustinDee

ckeego wrote: »

The sidesteps by Phil Bennett at the start of the play are outrageous:)

Benjii Marshall is the only modern player to have truly mastered that one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifxOPvzLDRA

Billy Slater too.

Almaviva

JustinDee wrote: »

Quinnell to Edwards = Forward pass.

I dont think so. Both are at speed, ball might move slightly forward, maybe a yard, relative to the pitch line. But Quinnell passes while moving forward and is still very close to in line with Edwards as he catches, meaning the pass was probably backwards.

While the ref might have whistled, chances are more likely that it was legal and so he made the correct decision.

thomond2006

BBC 5 live talked at length about it, they said the commentary made that try extra special and I couldn't agree more.

Almaviva

Clareman wrote: »

Great try, but not the greatest ever cause it was scored in a challenge match, sorry, but imvho for a score to be counted as 1 of the best ever it has to be scored in a competitive match.

Agree indeed. It has to really matter.
For example the Horgan try 2006 game v England. The pressure, coming from behind to snatch it, last minute, length of the field, recycle, and incredible one handed stretch for the line. Counts for more for me.

Swiwi

Part of rugby folklore! Nowadays a couple of those ABs would been in front of the judiciary for coathanger tackles. Love the plummy commentary. Jolly good show, what!

Swiwi

JustinDee wrote: »

Billy Slater too.

And Christian Cullen's first try v Scotland. Pure class.

Almaviva

frozenfrozen wrote: »

A much more dangerous game back then it seems. would have definitely been at least one yellow if that happened today.

It was. JPR's play was considered 'uncompromising' at the time, but would be unacceptably dirty by today standards. He probably considered the high tackle on him in the clip fair game and would have been waiting for his moment to exact some revenge himself. Very fine player all the same.

davidpfitz

It's an exhibition match, so that has to take away from it a bit. Even if it didn't, for my money this is the greatest try ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3PHyrbUNM4

Swiwi

davidpfitz wrote: »

It's an exhibition match, so that has to take away from it a bit. Even if it didn't, for my money this is the greatest try ever:

It would be fair to say only France could score a try like that!

TheKeenMachine

How's this for a gem from John Kirwan?

.ak

That Kirwan try is still my all time favourite try. Man was an absolute legend.

.ak

Speaking of French tries... one of the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj3ckDeXoeE

Almaviva

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

How's this for a gem from John Kirwan?

I wouldnt rate that one at all - the opposition was useless. The cumulative skill level in the Saint-Andre try above was way higher. JK was a great player though and scored much better tries than that.

corny

Swiwi wrote: »

And Christian Cullen's first try v Scotland. Pure class.

Not an international but i always liked this one from Cullen.

RebelRed90

The more of these clips I see the more I realise Christian Cullen was a class act back in the day

Swiwi

corny wrote: »

Not an international but i always liked this one from Cullen.

Yeah, Munster were really unlucky they got a crocked Cullen, and I think he was a bit embarrassed by it too. At the height of his powers, an absolutely incredible attacking fullback, and immensely strong. He's now running a small company representing a few players back in NZ. When I see those old clips with Cullen, Lomu, Umaga, Wilson, Fitzpatrick, Brooke etc it's pretty poor that they couldn't win a RWC - the 1997 ABs were a better side than the current one I would think.

RebelRed90

Swiwi wrote: »

Yeah, Munster were really unlucky they got a crocked Cullen, and I think he was a bit embarrassed by it too. At the height of his powers, an absolutely incredible attacking fullback, and immensely strong. He's now running a small company representing a few players back in NZ. When I see those old clips with Cullen, Lomu, Umaga, Wilson, Fitzpatrick, Brooke etc it's pretty poor that they couldn't win a RWC - the 1997 ABs were a better side than the current one I would think.

Ya it was unfortunate for both parties. Luckily we had better luck when we bought Howlett.

ya Id agree that that team was better than there currant one, but to be fair that NZ team was probably the greatest rugby team of all time. How they never won the 1995 world cup ill never know, ripped teams to shreds! Looked on wiki there and they scored 222 points in there opening 3 pool games, granted half came from japan but still.

Lomus exhibition against england that year was stuff of sporting legends.

Digifriendly

RebelRed90 wrote: »

Ya it was unfortunate for both parties. Luckily we had better luck when we bought Howlett.

ya Id agree that that team was better than there currant one, but to be fair that NZ team was probably the greatest rugby team of all time. How they never won the 1995 world cup ill never know, ripped teams to shreds! Looked on wiki there and they scored 222 points in there opening 3 pool games, granted half came from japan but still.

Lomus exhibition against england that year was stuff of sporting legends.

Food poisoning perhaps?

RebelRed90

Digifriendly wrote: »

Food poisoning perhaps?

I wouldnt know too much about that to be honest, was quite young at the time. Id imagine they are Similar stories and allegations as to what happened Brazils Ronaldo before the 1998 world cup final?

apology's for going off topic, just curious!

Swiwi

RebelRed90 wrote: »

I wouldnt know too much about that to be honest, was quite young at the time. Id imagine they are Similar stories and allegations as to what happened Brazils Ronaldo before the 1998 world cup final?

apology's for going off topic, just curious!

To cut a long story short, the players definitely had food poisoning, of that there is no doubt, but whether a waitress called Suzie was involved is a whole other question...which I am definitely not going to delve into. NZ's demolition of Eng in 1995 is probably one of the best games NZ has played in a RWC, certainly in the first half anyway.

Almaviva

Swiwi wrote: »

but whether a waitress called Suzie was involved is a whole other question

That bit not really in doubt either, but a bit like Lee Harvey Oswald, its when the role of puppet masters behind was sensed things got murky, amid shadows of global political agendas; NIA, SASS , CIA, and UN. This was South Africas high profile return to the international stage after years of apartheid, sanctions, etc, .... in Rugby, a sport intimately bound up in white South Africa's sense of identity.

"Best leave it...unsolved" was the general consensus at the time.

ckeego

Things have probably changed since, but I remember being flabbergasted that a team as professional (and they had been professional in all but name for a long time even then) did not have their own chefs.

If you look at cycling for example, most of the teams have their own cooks as in say something like the TdF or the Giro, even losing one or two members to food poisoning or gastroenteritis could mean the end of their campaign.

It sure cost the ABs dear in that RWC, but food crook aside, they have had an awful habit of choking in big RWC games over the years. If it wasn't for a 4th choice outhalf in an ill fitting jersey, they would have done the same in the last final too...;)

Swiwi

ckeego wrote: »

Things have probably changed since, but I remember being flabbergasted that a team as professional (and they had been professional in all but name for a long time even then) did not have their own chefs.

If you look at cycling for example, most of the teams have their own cooks as in say something like the TdF or the Giro, even losing one or two members to food poisoning or gastroenteritis could mean the end of their campaign.

It sure cost the ABs dear in that RWC, but food crook aside, they have had an awful habit of choking in big RWC games over the years. If it wasn't for a 4th choice outhalf in an ill fitting jersey, they would have done the same in the last final too...;)

Entirely agree. In fact ever since 1995, I think the ABs have micromanaged all aspects of the team, including cuisine. You have to remember that rugby was only on the verge of professionalism in '95.

Yes & no to the choking - 91 just not good enough, 95 as above, 99 unbelievable french, 03 leaving cullen, mehrtens at home, and umaga on the bench, 07 - choke + bad luck with injuries (carter, evans)

And playing a world class fullback at centre in 99/03/07 was pretty average coaching too!

Imhof Tank

For those discounting this as a mere challenge match, in the amateur era Ba Bas v All Blacks was very much a competitive affair - especially in 73 which came in the wake of the Lions 71 series win in NZ.

And commentator Cliff Morgan was as far from being "plummy" as you could get - hewn from Welsh mining stock.

Clareman

Imhof Tank wrote: »

For those discounting this as a mere challenge match, in the amateur era Ba Bas v All Blacks was very much a competitive affair - especially in 73 which came in the wake of the Lions 71 series win in NZ.

And commentator Cliff Morgan was as far from being "plummy" as you could get - hewn from Welsh mining stock.

Caps weren't awarded so it was just a representatives match, bit like saying that when the Harlem Globe Trotters play it's a fully fledged game.

Swiwi

Imhof Tank wrote: »

For those discounting this as a mere challenge match, in the amateur era Ba Bas v All Blacks was very much a competitive affair - especially in 73 which came in the wake of the Lions 71 series win in NZ.

And commentator Cliff Morgan was as far from being "plummy" as you could get - hewn from Welsh mining stock.

My ignorance! Apologies!

ckeego

Swiwi wrote: »

Entirely agree. In fact ever since 1995, I think the ABs have micromanaged all aspects of the team, including cuisine. You have to remember that rugby was only on the verge of professionalism in '95.

Yes & no to the choking - 91 just not good enough, 95 as above, 99 unbelievable french, 03 leaving cullen, mehrtens at home, and umaga on the bench, 07 - choke + bad luck with injuries (carter, evans)

And playing a world class fullback at centre in 99/03/07 was pretty average coaching too!

Very very true about 2003..I remember working with a Kiwi and a Bok when the AB squad was announced and they were completely gobsmacked for completely different reasons when they left Mehrtens and Cullen at home..Taine randall too from what my fuzzy memory recalls...

Almaviva

Clareman wrote: »

Caps weren't awarded so it wasn't just a representatives match, bit like saying that when the Harlem Globe Trotters play it's a fully fledged game.

Not quite though. The Barbarians game was approached as a semi-test as the last game of a tour. There was bite to it, but not as a full test, since there was a philosophy of playing the 'Barbarians' way rather than win at all costs, and, not sure about that one, but I think there was usually un uncapped player on the Baba's team, and a conscious effort to spread representation throughout the home nations rather then the out and out best test team.

Digifriendly

Have watched a recording of the match and number of things strike me :
(1) Front rows come together almost immediately at scrum time with no delay.
(2) Line outs are very bunched up compared to today.
(3) No. of times Sid Going is penalised for feeding the ball crooked into the scrum.
(4) No. of 'clothes line tackles' by AB's that went unpenalised.
(5) Brilliance of Babas' backline with one dummy by David Duckham so quick it even caught the cameraman out. Rare to see play like that today.

Swiwi

Digifriendly wrote: »

Have watched a recording of the match and number of things strike me :
(1) Front rows come together almost immediately at scrum time with no delay.
(2) Line outs are very bunched up compared to today.
(3) No. of times Sid Going is penalised for feeding the ball crooked into the scrum.
(4) No. of 'clothes line tackles' by AB's that went unpenalised.
(5) Brilliance of Babas' backline with one dummy by David Duckham so quick it even caught the cameraman out. Rare to see play like that today.

That rule still exists?

Swiwi

ckeego wrote: »

Very very true about 2003..I remember working with a Kiwi and a Bok when the AB squad was announced and they were completely gobsmacked for completely different reasons when they left Mehrtens and Cullen at home..Taine randall too from what my fuzzy memory recalls...

It cost John Mitchell badly. He just about got his tenure spot on, but Mehrtens could read the game better than Spencer and change the gameplan. The ABs had been in excellent form in 2003, comfortably winning the 3N, but they had no Plan B in that semifinal. Leon MacDonald was too small to play centre and Mortlock ate him for breakfast. Meanwhile an apparently fit Umaga was not selected for the match. And Cullen was left at home for a guy called Ben Atiga, who is very much obscure pub quiz material these days. Given Mitchell was absolutely dreadful at PR, the NZRFU couldn't get rid of him fast enough after 2003.

Almaviva

Swiwi wrote: »

That rule still exists?

It does. The penalising of it though has been 'retired'.

Losty Dublin

Clareman wrote: »

Caps weren't awarded so it was just a representatives match, bit like saying that when the Harlem Globe Trotters play it's a fully fledged game.

Back in the 70's, any game played in the Cardiff Arms Park against either the All Blacks or the Barbarians was your World Cup Final. This game had all 3 ingredients.

What made the try extra special was that it came after just 6 minutes of the game. It also came from an unrehearsed counter attack that had no set pieces about it; it relied on wit, hand speed and a few pop passes and from players who played for the crack and trained for 3 hours a week; it is as pure as pure can be. Every so often I'll lash the game on and enjoy the spectacle that it is.

who_me

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Back in the 70's, any game played in the Cardiff Arms Park against either the All Blacks or the Barbarians was your World Cup Final. This game had all 3 ingredients.

What made the try extra special was that it came after just 6 minutes of the game. It also came from an unrehearsed counter attack that had no set pieces about it; it relied on wit, hand speed and a few pop passes and from players who played for the crack and trained for 3 hours a week; it is as pure as pure can be. Every so often I'll lash the game on and enjoy the spectacle that it is.

Agree on all points.

I don't really care if it's a "competitive" or challenge match. I've seen competitive games where where one side didn't put up much resistance, and challenge games that were pretty fiesty! Plus, NZ don't really do "friendlies". That game was a full-blooded affair and the try should stand among the greatest, IMO.

pickarooney

The first one here is one of my top tries ever scored. There was just no way he was going to be stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3yxSdRk41o

Swiwi

pickarooney wrote: »

The first one here is one of my top tries ever scored. There was just no way he was going to be stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3yxSdRk41o

From a NZ point of view that was the highlight & highpoint of that particular game...

...the French commentary is great though! Especially about Benazzi trying to tackle Lomu. They got so excited about a NZ try that I can only but imagine the commentary when Dominici et al strutted their stuff.

pickarooney

No need to imagine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNRhF-ONqZQ

It's hard to imagine two more different 11s, with 25cm and 40+ kilos between them, yet they were both such a joy to watch.

durkadurka

Only the French get bounces like that!

Swiwi

durkadurka wrote: »

Only the French get bounces like that!

And only if they have played rubbish all season, and are given no chance of victory. Jupiter must also be in alignment with Mars. They must also have suffered a prior heavy defeat to NZ in the same calendar year.

Grimebox

durkadurka wrote: »

Only the French get bounces like that!

And Tommy Bowe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VnPmRytfyM

part time punk

another best try ever .... the try from the end of the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTwTi-UeQ7s

Swiwi

part time punk wrote: »

another best try ever .... the try from the end of the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTwTi-UeQ7s

I've previously posted on this, but this series has quite a bit of trivia associated with it. Firstly, the week prior in the first test, a 19 year old NZ with Tongan heritage made his AB debut in NZ's 8-22 defeat. You may have heard of Jonah Lomu. He was the youngest ever AB, and it showed. The French boxed kicked over his head all day, and he made a meal of turning & chasing, and very nearly lost his spot for the following week. In that test, current Munster assistant coach Simon Mannix made his 1 and only appearance for the MIB. He had an absolute shocker, gifting France a crucial try from some goal-line error (I forget exactly what error now).

As Ireland well know, NZ don't take defeats at home lying down, and played much better the following week. However, much like Stephen Donald in HK 15 odd years later, Stephen Bachop missed touch as the video shows, and the rest is history. Bachop played for both NZ and Samoa, before that was prohibited. NZ has not last at Eden Park again since that defeat.

France won a series 2-0 in NZ. And Laurie Mains continued his fairly average coaching record. Mains only ran at approx 60%, which is far inferior to any recent AB coach, but in a different life might have gone on to win the 1995 RWC with a dazzling brand of rugby.

So there we go. Given the context of this match, I think that try to secure France an away series victory must rank in the top 20 tries or so of the 20th century.

thebaz

durkadurka wrote: »

Only the French get bounces like that!

whatever about greatest tries, that france / all blacks game from '99 WC was the greatest game I have ever seen, it had everything