Driving Conditions

Sully

Folks, slow down on the roads and remain alert. There have been at least 3 accidents on the M9 between Waterford and Kilkenny today and a number of other accidents on other oads today. Driving conditions are very poor as is visability. Emergency services are on route to the latest accident on the M9.

shockwave

Its unbelievable the amount of cars I saw today with no lights on, some people have no cop on at all.

allthedoyles

And we were travelling today from Waterford to New Ross , in heavy rain and fog , and it was incredible the amount of cars passing us out doing more than 100 kph .

Why do some drivers believe that 100k is a target , and not just a limit .


Will some ever realise , you have to drive according to road conditions , and not reach 100k all the time .

dzilla

The whole waterford to cork road has massive amounts of surface water on it with lots of burst streams gushing out fields and ditches

lertsnim

shockwave wrote: »

Its unbelievable the amount of cars I saw today with no lights on, some people have no cop on at all.

It should be made a law that lights are on at all times. IMO

er1983

shockwave wrote: »

Its unbelievable the amount of cars I saw today with no lights on, some people have no cop on at all.

I know ridicolous

Potential-Monke

It could be considered driving without due care and attention: €80 fine and 2 penalty points. Tell people that and they won't be long turning on the lights in bad conditions.

seven_eleven

Motorway conditions were brutal today. While I agree to slow down, that does not mean doing f*cking 60kph on the motorway, absolutely ridiculous and downright dangerous the amount of people I came across doing these speeds.

Dozens of cars and trucks overtaking these fools all packed up only waiting for an accident to happen. I came across at least 5 people driving TOO slow, it was the last thing I would expect.

looksee

While I agree that 60kph is slow for motorway driving, I do not know the conditions so cannot comment whether it was too slow in that particular case.

However the whole point of a motorway is that it has more than one lane, just so that you can overtake. Provided they were staying in the left lane out of the way I cannot see the problem?

Bards

looksee wrote: »

While I agree that 60kph is slow for motorway driving, I do not know the conditions so cannot comment whether it was too slow in that particular case.

However the whole point of a motorway is that it has more than one lane, just so that you can overtake. Provided they were staying in the left lane out of the way I cannot see the problem?

......60 km/h with no lights on while driving in the left hand lane is still insane and can lead to a rear ending/ pile up. While these same drivers no doubt will drive with their fog lights on in clear conditions:rolleyes:

looksee

Bards wrote: »

......60 km/h with no lights on while driving in the left hand lane is still insane and can lead to a rear ending/ pile up. While these same drivers no doubt will drive with their fog lights on in clear conditions:rolleyes:

I would not argue with that, but it is not quite the same situation!

spankmemunkey

Rant Alert

Theres loads of drivers in waterford whos driving ability is questionable at best.
Dont know when to indicate on a roundabout
Dont stay in lane on a roundabout
Couple of weeks ago in the heavy fog lots of cars driving without LIGHTS nevermind fogs and then you have people driving with fogs on all the time which is against the rules of the road.

As far as i know the Germans drive with lights on all the time as a rule.

Youll always get nut jobs in cars and they wont stop being nut jobs when its rainging!

Sully

Since the 7th February 2011 all new cars in the EU must be fitted with Daylight running lights (DRL's). That's the only requirement in turns of such but you will often hear radio DJs read out texts reminding people with older cars to ensure they have their lights on in the poorer conditions on our road. Its down to lack of knowledge on driving, old driving habits and styles, and pure ignorance that people driving around without lights.

In regards to driving at 6km/hr - visibility was very poor and the rain was very heavy at times so I can see why those not very confident will slow down considerably. Its common in countries that during such conditions the speed limit is lowered but probably not that far down. Thankfully, we have two lanes and its safe to overtake on our motorways so there shouldn't be a hazard in that regard. On our primary and secondary roads, its also understandable but frustrating if your confident enough to move forward safely. Iv seen a lot of similar strong rain over the years on our roads and people tend to actually pull into the hard shoulder and wait until it passes before moving on - but yesterday, it was continuous.

I spotted three accidents yesterday on the M9 to/from Kilkenny. One, a jeep that was on the embankment facing the opposite direction. There was a Guard taking parts of the jeeps bumper from the top of the embankment down to the front of the jeep while (I assume) waiting for recovery which I spotted leaving Kilkenny. The second was a small van which had hit into the metal barriers (side impact) under one of the bridges. The third was a golf which had managed to get itself half way up the embankment and facing the opposite direction.

As I got into Waterford there were two ambulances, and three fire units heading up towards Kilkenny. Outside Superquinn and a unit from Tramore was heading into the City, not sure if it was to assist or not. I believe there was a serious accident on the M9 partly blocking it.

This plus numerous other accidents on our roads including at least one resulting in a young ladies death, shows how poor driving conditions were yesterday and how it appears some people didn't slow down and lost control of their car. The Waterford-Tramore road had spot flooding throughout and I believe other routes around the County were equally as bad.

Cabaal

seven_eleven wrote: »

I came across at least 5 people driving TOO slow, it was the last thing I would expect.

You know what the RSA say....always expect the unexpected.

Whilst 60km/hr may seem too slow for a motorway it would clearly depend on the conditions...however its more likely down to the person's confidence, a few things I've learned from motorway driving are:

- Don't assume everyone drives 100-120km/hr
- Most people seem to think the overtaking lane is the FAST LANE :rolleyes:
- Don't assume people will have headlights on during the night (saw this last week!).
- Don't be surprised to see scooters carrying big loads/tractors/cyclists on motorways
- Don't assume people know how to merge with existing motorway traffic...most people just force their way in by staying in a lane till it no longer exists!
- Don't be surprised if some muppet overtakes you and then slows down to a speed much slower then you!
- Don't assume you'll NEVER meet somebody coming TOWARDS you!!!
- Don't assume everyone knows that its not a good idea to drive at 150-160km/hr when its pouring down and the motorway is basically a river

Most people in Ireland can't drive for crap and I'm all in favor of a license retesting system being setup so you have to do some sort of driving test refresher course every 10-15 years.

spankmemunkey

I have to say on the topic of speed, I often see car dealers from the big garages on the cork road driving well over the 100KM an hour on The OUTTER RING ROAD back towards the garages sometimes with plates on sometimes without, but im always surprised at these people who work in the car industry with little regard for the speed limit i mean they need their licence for work, My only theory is that the car isnt registered in their own name and it would be hard to trace who was actually driving the car, that still wouldnt help them if the cops were doing speed checks, although im not sure if the guards do speed checks anymore on the outter ring road now that they have the speed vans

Gin77

It seems that the world is getting faster and faster from our day to day lives and jobs. That's normal enough, however the problem is more to do with peoples ability.
You can't expect a older person to drive fast in low visibility or a younger person to stay behind someone driving slow. Our roads are not capable of catering for everyone, although the new motorways are a step in the right direction. I have to admit when I get into a car to do a long journey every second counts ie. trip is 120km so if I drive 100km/h average I will be there in 1hr 12min. I feel if I drive slower I'm losing time. Don't criticize me too much as I'm giving an insight into how a lot of people think. I do get annoyed when I'm held up, especially by a trail of cars sitting behind someone doing 30km/h below the speed limit. And what sometimes happens is somebody gets impatient and overtakes 3 or 4 cars.
Whose to blame the slow drivers or the drivers sitting behind the slow driver or the guy at the back whose had enough and goes for it.
I would say nobody is to blame as there is such a range of driving skill levels.

Cabaal

Gin77 wrote: »

Whose to blame the slow drivers or the drivers sitting behind the slow driver or the guy at the back whose had enough and goes for it.
I would say nobody is to blame as there is such a range of driving skill levels.

In such cases if say somebody is doing 60km in a 80km zone the person who dangerously overtakes them is to blame if there;s an accident, nobody else.

The speed limit after all is a limit, not a target that you must drive at 100% of the time.

Bottom line is regardless of how frustrating a slower driver can be its YOUR responsibility that you drive safely, this means that if you are overtaking on a normal national road you must do safety.....if you don't you can't go blame the person who's oncoming who you drive into or the 60km driver.

Thats a problem with alot of people these days, they don't like accepting that they have a certain level of personal responsibility.

Sully

I'd love (never gonna happen) if we brought in a minimum speed for our motorways / dual carriageways and a requirement that if you are on a road and there is a build up of cars behind you or someone attempting to over take than you pull into the hard-shoulder and leave the traffic pass. Sure the person over taking is also responsible but so is the fecking eejit holding up everybody!

amber69

Sully wrote: »

I'd love (never gonna happen) if we brought in a minimum speed for our motorways / dual carriageways and a requirement that if you are on a road and there is a build up of cars behind you or someone attempting to over take than you pull into the hard-shoulder and leave the traffic pass. Sure the person over taking is also responsible but so is the fecking eejit holding up everybody!

Don't think you're allowed to use the hard shoulder for this

kensutz

amber69 wrote: »

Don't think you're allowed to use the hard shoulder for this

That's why his first sentence was a wish/hope.

Sully

amber69 wrote: »

Don't think you're allowed to use the hard shoulder for this

Well you are permitted to use the hard shoulder on our roads, with the exception of motorways which is a penalty point offense. I think, but I am not 100% on this, that the Rules of The Road permit moving into the hard shoulder to allow faster traffic overtake - and if that's the case, its not enforced.

Gin77

Cabaal wrote: »

In such cases if say somebody is doing 60km in a 80km zone the person who dangerously overtakes them is to blame if there;s an accident, nobody else.

The speed limit after all is a limit, not a target that you must drive at 100% of the time.

Bottom line is regardless of how frustrating a slower driver can be its YOUR responsibility that you drive safely, this means that if you are overtaking on a normal national road you must do safety.....if you don't you can't go blame the person who's oncoming who you drive into or the 60km driver.

Thats a problem with alot of people these days, they don't like accepting that they have a certain level of personal responsibility.

Cabaal
What your are saying may be true but using that as an final argument is burying your head in the sand.
Sooner or later the RSA will have to realise the world is becoming faster paced place to live. Make provisions for that don't just penalise the people who are the product of this new modern world.

looksee

Gin77 wrote: »

Cabaal
What your are saying may be true but using that as an final argument is burying your head in the sand.
Sooner or later the RSA will have to realise the world is becoming faster paced place to live. Make provisions for that don't just penalise the people who are the product of this new modern world.

Sorry but that is just nonsense. There is an optimum speed for vehicles which depends on the vehicle, the road surface, the conditions and the competence of the driver.

There will come a time when, in an even newer and more modern world you will realise that the stress and adrenalin rush created by driving just faster than the optimum speed is more trouble than it is worth, and you will ease back a bit and wonder what is wrong with all the eejits flying past you. And they will be thinking 'daft old fool, why doesn't he get a bus and leave the roads for people who are in a hurry'.

spankmemunkey

I think what we all have to remember is we will all be old some day please god and if we get that far we may not be as sharp as we useto be but we still want to drive our cars and have our independance, our hearing may fade our eyesight may fade a bit and we might decide to take it easier on the roads or be more cautious. If an older person is on the road show them a bit of courtesy and give them space and if the time comes in the road where you can over take then just do it, some peope can be so ignorant, these posters are the very posters who in 10 15 or 20 years will find a whipper snapper behind them thinking they are the sh't when it comes to driving right up their arses with their music oud their ultra high beam lights on shouting at ye saying get outta the f in way ye old fool, im sure youll feel great then! of course there are some older drivers where ye go oh my god but just take your time wait for your opportunity to pass and do it.

Kracken

First off Sully, good thread. I travel Dublin to waterford motorway 4 times a week in the dark, on Friday, I saw stupid driving on friday.

I must first thank the guy who flashed his hazards when he hit surface water ahead of me, about 10 km south of Kilkenny, it gave me enough time to prep for the torrent of water on the road, it was like black ice. I am surprised there weren't any deaths.

As far as too slow or too fast, regardless people of what you think, you always drive to the conditions of the road and the weather. Treat all drivers behind and in front as if they don't see you. I have on several occasions had to evade other drivers not checking their blind spots.

If someone in front of you is going to slow, then consider you may be going too fast to deal with them, thats your fault. Granted if someone is going slow, they are doing so for a reason (be it nervous, engine related etc.). Its up to the driver behind to be in control of their vechicle and as such be travelling in such a way they can deal with any eventuality.

wobbles

Sully wrote: »

I'd love (never gonna happen) if we brought in a minimum speed for our motorways / dual carriageways and a requirement that if you are on a road and there is a build up of cars behind you or someone attempting to over take than you pull into the hard-shoulder and leave the traffic pass. Sure the person over taking is also responsible but so is the fecking eejit holding up everybody!

Dont agree with this at all Sully

The person holding up traffic is responsible for himself and his car before anyone else. If that driver doesnt want to drive at the limit for whatever reason (poor conditions, doesnt feel comfortable at the speed etc) then its his decision to drive at that speed. His safety comes before anything else for him in that situation. The same applies to everyone else.

It is the responsibility of the person overtaking to unsure the way ahead is clear, if not, then suck it up and wait. Too many people are impatient on the roads, expecting slower drivers to give way for them and then getting frustrated when they dont pull in.

Tigerandahalf

Not the case in America where you are expected to drive within 10 of the speed limit. Otherwise take yourself and your vehicle off the road.

hardybuck

If you're sitting the driving test, you are expected to set your speed in the region of the speed limit - but not over it obviously.

If you drive too slowly, you are docked marks. You aren't making reasonable progress or however it is defined.

So, to all the people who are saying "oh the speed limit is not a target etc." - yes it is.

That said, a reasonable drop in speed for poor weather conditions is perfectly fine. However, there is a good reason why tractors, cars with trailers or engines below a certain size are not allowed on the motorway.

wellboytoo

Slow drivers are a hazard on motorways .
That is why police forces around the world caution or prosecute drivers who drive too slowly.
Being inexperienced or nervous is an excuse not a reason you should not be on a motorway if you cant maintain a reasonable speed.

One can allow for the elderly sunday driver who potters in the tramore road on a Sunday afternoon at 30 kph as other posters have mentioned but there is NO place for them on a motorway as the average speeds are too high and they are a serious hazard, I say this as an experienced hgv driver who has experience of accidents caused by this.

allthedoyles

The point that some posters are making in this thread , is that drivers should drive according to weather/road conditions .- ( which is why the thread was started in the first place )

So if it is raining and there is fog , visiblilty is bound to be poor , and therefore drivers should drive accordingly .

Know the 2-second rule , and in wet weather , you are supposed to double the distance between you and the car in front...........and say twice '' only a fool breaks the 2-second rule ''

Gin77

allthedoyles wrote: »

The point that some posters are making in this thread , is that drivers should drive according to weather/road conditions .- ( which is why the thread was started in the first place )

So if it is raining and there is fog , visiblilty is bound to be poor , and therefore drivers should drive accordingly .

Know the 2-second rule , and in wet weather , you are supposed to double the distance between you and the car in front...........and say twice '' only a fool breaks the 2-second rule ''

France the motorway is 130km/h dry and 110km/h wet
People simply don't have the same skill sets when it comes to driving.
So as a first step narrow the ranges of driving skills... so everybody can drive like lunatics Humour...

Seriously if you can drive in Paris without crashing Id safely say you qualify.
And finally when you drive 30km/h below the limit you really have plenty of time to look behind and count all the cars behind and subtract them from the ones in front especially on the normal roads.
Maybe communication devices between cars are a good idea. Excuse me please can you gtf out of my way.. please lol

stefan idiot jones

I'm not sure about France, but in Germany they have to put winter tyres on by law every year to cope with their harsh conditions. If the winters keep on getting progressively worse it would be a good idea to do that in Ireland too. If only people could afford it.

Kracken

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

I'm not sure about France, but in Germany they have to put winter tyres on by law every year to cope with their harsh conditions. If the winters keep on getting progressively worse it would be a good idea to do that in Ireland too. If only people could afford it.

Its the same in Sweden, however their the price of winter tyres is kept low so that people can afford to get them. In Sweden you find regardless of the tyre condition they must be changed every 6 months.

But again they are cheap so you can change them.

Don't think that would work in the rip-off republic.

spankmemunkey

Having lived in both France and Germany i can confirm that you need to have winter tyres by law, If you buy a car in Germany(second hand) you normally get 8 wheels, Summer Reifen and Winter Reifen, people normally have alloys with their summer tyres on and steels with the winter tyres, and tyre companies like Fast Fit or whatever they store the tyres for people when not in use.

France aswell theres signs on the side of the motorway showing speeds for rain and normal driving conditions, as far as i remember theres also sign posts for Trucks and Lorries for their speed limit.

There should be the same thing here, well Winter tyres or just the universal tyres cos its not just for Snow and ice, heavy rain and constant wet surfaces aswell.

seven_eleven

Just to clarify my previous post, I am a very safe driver, I'm not aggressive unless something seriously dangerous/stupid happens, I always keep within speed limits, I don't even go over 110 on the motorway because my car 1.4 litre car starts to shake :pac: 110 is a nice speed to be cruising along at and I always keep a nice distance between cars. 3 car spaces, 4 if its raining.

Anyway, the weather was heavy rain on that day, visiblity was fine however, the spray was a bit bad prompting most motorists to drive at slower speeds. Most of us were doing 100km/h which was perfectly safe, and well within control on the motorway even in wet weather.

It was about 6-7pm so there was quite a few cars and HGV's on the road. After passing Knocktopher exit where it gets really windey/hilly there was a car doing about 60kmh, which prompted everyone to slow down behind it, as there was a line of traffic in the left lane, and a few people over taking in the right, so not every car and truck could move out.

It was extremely dangerous having to slow down like that, there was about 10 and trucks, while people clearly frustrated were trying to overtake at poor opportunities, the wind was extremely strong, spray became very heavy with a huge line of traffic, trucks were edging past etc. All because this one person was doing 60 on a motorway. We essentially became all bunched up and one slip up would have resulted in a large crash.

This happened about 3 times on my journey.

Then to top it all off when I got into kilkenny, I was taking the third exit on a roundabout, so I was in the right lane naturally. When the eejit beside me in the left lane decides he was also taking the third exit cutting right out infront of me :rolleyes:

rant rabble rabble etc

spankmemunkey

seven_eleven wrote: »

Just to clarify my previous post, I am a very safe driver, I'm not aggressive unless something seriously dangerous/stupid happens, I always keep within speed limits, I don't even go over 110 on the motorway because my car 1.4 litre car starts to shake :pac: 110 is a nice speed to be cruising along at and I always keep a nice distance between cars. 3 car spaces, 4 if its raining.

Anyway, the weather was heavy rain on that day, visiblity was fine however, the spray was a bit bad prompting most motorists to drive at slower speeds. Most of us were doing 100km/h which was perfectly safe, and well within control on the motorway even in wet weather.

It was about 6-7pm so there was quite a few cars and HGV's on the road. After passing Knocktopher exit where it gets really windey/hilly there was a car doing about 60kmh, which prompted everyone to slow down behind it, as there was a line of traffic in the left lane, and a few people over taking in the right, so not every car and truck could move out.

It was extremely dangerous having to slow down like that, there was about 10 and trucks, while people clearly frustrated were trying to overtake at poor opportunities, the wind was extremely strong, spray became very heavy with a huge line of traffic, trucks were edging past etc. All because this one person was doing 60 on a motorway. We essentially became all bunched up and one slip up would have resulted in a large crash.

This happened about 3 times on my journey.

Then to top it all off when I got into kilkenny, I was taking the third exit on a roundabout, so I was in the right lane naturally. When the eejit beside me in the left lane decides he was also taking the third exit cutting right out infront of me :rolleyes:

rant rabble rabble etc

GRRRRR i hate eejits that dont know what lane they should be in, or how to indicate on a roundabout, or the gob****es that try to speed up approaching a roundabout so they can get in front of you and cut you off or slam on as they come up towards the roundabout, such a dangerous manouver, I try not to let these people in when they are clearly about to put me at risk by flying in front of me and cutting me off, such a dangerous move and it happens alot on the outter ring road,