Supplements, are they worth it?

Gauss

So many people these days are taking various supplements and pills for their health and fitness. Do you think they are worth taking?

I'd be skeptical as to how beneficial many of the vitamin supplements are. Protein powder I see as a good supplement to take if that's what you'd call it because it can help you get your allowance of protein in a convenient manner.

As for most of the pills and potions, I'd be reluctant to spend my hard earned cash on supplements that might not make any difference to my health.

How do you view people who take a cocktail of supplements?

KTRIC

I prefer horse steroids myself. Usually pick up a 6 pack of them in Tesco. They've had neeaaah effect though :pac:

uch

They just give you the Scutters

If a person has no health problems and a reasonable diet, all supplements do is provide you with very expensive urine.

Anything the body can't use is excreted one way or another, so most of these huge doses are literally flushed away, unless the body can store that particular vitamin or nutrient, in which case its probably not doing any good, and hopefully not building up to any harm.

Dravokivich

Gauss wrote: »

How do you view people who take a cocktail of supplements?

From afar.

kraggy

I've heard doctors and nutritionists say numerous times that vitamin/mineral supplements are only useful if you are lacking in that vitamin/mineral.

If you have enough of a vitamin/mineral already, then the extra bit you get from the supplement is absolutely redundant.

E.S.T.

I take whey protein, fish oil, vitamin D, and multi-vitamin. Protein can get the same from food but there is only so much meat, tuna, cottage cheese, you can eat per day. Fish oil and vitamin D I think helps with my mood. Multi-vitamin is probably a waste because you piss it out 45 mins later but that is more of a habit anyway now.

Tiddlypeeps

I love this chart.

http://www.podcasthero.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/SnakeOilChart21.jpg

In each circle it shows you the substance, it's height in the chart tells you how good the evidence suggests it is, the size of the circle indicates how much data there is to back it up. So things right up the top like vitamin D and folic acid have lots of data to back up their effectiveness.

So as you can see from the chart some supplements are very overrated, while others aren't.

Note: This doesn't take into account that a lot of vitamins and minerals are needed for survival. For example Vitamin C is listed below the worth it line, but you still need Vitamin C in your diet. Most supplements give you 500mg to 1000mg when the RDA is only 40mg. So all the excess may or may not be wasted, the data available is currently conflicting.

Edit: Interactive version of the chart here, one above is probably a bit dated. http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/

drdeadlift

We in Ireland treat creatine like a steroid...

E.S.T.

E.S.T. wrote: »

I take whey protein, fish oil, vitamin D, and multi-vitamin. Protein can get the same from food but there is only so much meat, tuna, cottage cheese, you can eat per day. Fish oil and vitamin D I think helps with my mood. Multi-vitamin is probably a waste because you piss it out 45 mins later but that is more of a habit anyway now.

There's only so much protein your body needs per day too, even if you're muscle building.

Ten minutes daily, in daylight with your face exposed, will provide you with enough vitamin D.

There is no conclusive evidence (conclusive being the important word here) that suggests fish oil has any effect on mood in a person with an otherwise reasonable diet.

You're not just pissing out the multivitamin.

Anyone

Candie wrote: »

You're not just pissing out the multivitamin.

You ever drink a Berocca? You can literally see those vitamins fly out your body afterwards.

Czarcasm

I take glucosamine and cod liver oil supplements for arthritis and find them very beneficial, that's really all they are though, is a supplement to nutrition you don't normally get in your diet.

I can't thank the inventor of capsule form enough for making cod liver oil that bit easier to ingest than the way I used be served it as a child- on a great god damn soup spoon! The word "rank" doesn't even do it justice. It's quite the vile concoction, but it's extremely beneficial for all sorts of health benefits.

I'm still 50/50 on the "benefits" of the latest drink supplement I've come across that is aloe vera juice, but I might have been more put off it by the person that was selling it in a direct marketing pyramid scheme scam sort of fashion, which immediately set my sceptic radar to "avoid like the plague!"

E.S.T.

Candie wrote: »

There's only so much protein your body needs per day too, even if you're muscle building.

Ten minutes daily, in daylight with your face exposed, will provide you with enough vitamin D.

There is no conclusive evidence (conclusive being the important word here) that suggests fish oil has any effect on mood in a person with an otherwise reasonable diet.

You're not just pissing out the multivitamin.

I weight lift so I try to get a gram of protein per pound everyday and even by going out of my way to eat foods with high protein the protein powder helps fill a gap. It is 4 degree Fahrenheit where I live right now so there is not much standing out in the sun in the winter. The fish oil has other benefits outside of mood but I think it helps my mood so that is all that matters to me.

Czarcasm

Czarcasm wrote: »

I take glucosamine and cod liver oil supplements for arthritis and find them very beneficial, that's really all they are though, is a supplement to nutrition you don't normally get in your diet.

I think the latest research suggests that taking glucosamine (ia component of bone) to strengthen joints is like flinging bricks at your house to strengthen the walls.

Czarcasm

Candie wrote: »

I think the latest research suggests that taking glucosamine (ia component of bone) to strengthen joints is like flinging bricks at your house to strengthen the walls.

Ha! Deadly analogy, but they were just something that was recommended by my doc and perhaps now you mention it there probably is a bit of a placebo effect going on, it's not like I notice any massive difference but it could be a combination of factors like I use epsom salts in the bath, I've lost a lot of weight, I've cut red meat out of my diet (apart from the odd time my wife cooks a steak as a treat! ), but all the above has definitely eased the pain I used get in my joints.


ps: Is there anything you're not informed about?

tmc86

Candie wrote: »

If a person has no health problems and a reasonable diet, all supplements do is provide you with very expensive urine.

kraggy wrote: »

I've heard doctors and nutritionists say numerous times that vitamin/mineral supplements are only useful if you are lacking in that vitamin/mineral.

If you have enough of a vitamin/mineral already, then the extra bit you get from the supplement is absolutely redundant.

hence why they are called supplements - theyre to supplement deficiencies that you're not getting through diet etc.

hardCopy

drdeadlift wrote: »

We in Ireland treat creatine like a steroid...

They get it from their friends in the gym Joe!

Potential-Monke

Currently on the Herbalife plan (please, i've heard all the arguement against it already), and i've gone from 15st 1 down to 14st 2 in 3 weeks. It includes a multi-vitamin, fibre tablets and other "Flora Fibre" tablets, along with a protein meal shake, and herbal tea (which allegedly burns 80 calories per cup).

I know i could probably do the same on my own with a strictly controlled diet, but my diet and habits were shocking. No self control, and would eat pizza for breakfast (and not just any pizza, a double decadence double chesse with pepperoni pizza).

So, albeit expensive, it is starting to teach me how to eat properly, so when i think i'm ready i can stop taking it and give it a shot. It is also giving me energy i never knew i had, and i'm fully awake within 5 minutes of waking up, whereas i was normally groggy for about an hour. All this with no exercise also.

Lollipops23

My diet hasn't been the greatest lately (my appetite has been waaay down due to stress) and I've been sick too. Have been taking Rubex eight hour tablets (for energy) and so far am feeling better

ejmaztec

Supplements, are they worth it?

The Sunday Times ones probably are, but sometimes they're not all there and you only realise this when you get home.:(

blatantrereg

It's very common in strength training at all levels to consume very large amounts of protein. I dont think research supports the notion that it's beneficial to do so however. Protein shakes do have an anabolic effect right after strength training, but that's a separate matter to overall protein consumption.

Creatine is proven to be beneficial in certain forms of strength training. It has negligible benefits at best outside of that. It's fine if used sensibly. If used in excess it might be damaging. It can cause stomach upset too if it's not dissolved fully, or taken in excess.

Vitamin B12 supplementation is pretty much a requirement for vegans. Vegetarians are well advised to consume algal oil from what I can see, since vegetable sources of omega 3 fats dont convert well into the beneficial forms. The omega 3s in fish (and algal oil) are already the type that are beneficial.

Bioavailability is a consideration with supplements. Many supplements aren't absorbed well by the body at all, so their effect is negligible. Taken in excess they are detrimental rather than beneficial, since there is a bit of an extra load placed on the body to clean them out of the system.

Certain supplements in particular can be harmful if used in excess. Vitamin A is toxic and can kill if too much is ingested. One antartic explorer died after eating the liver from sled dogs because of the high vitamin A content. Vitamin E interferes with blood clotting, and Vitamin D can cause calcification of organs, premature aging and hypertension if consumed in excess.

Really you are best off not supplementing unless you have a specific requirement for something. If you do use supplements you are well advised to educate yourself about them beforehand, and not use them excessively.

NIMAN

Always wondered about these things and if they are doing any good for what they cost.

I have got into the habit of taking one of those fizzy VitC+Zinc every day as I heard a few years back that they ward off colds. I still get the odd one, but not really sure if they work or not. Probably keep the habit going as they are cheap enough and taste nice.

Thing that I am skeptical about is the Berocca ones. I do not feel any increase in energy at all from them, and no longer use them. Same thing goes for Pharmaton, tried those for a couple of months and no difference noted, so stopped. I think eating healthy and getting sleep is better than popping supplements to give you energy.

And finally, the biggest scam of the lot, gotta be those 'good bacteria' drinks for your gut. Surely all their goodness, if they have any at all, is killed by your stomach acid?

I think that 95% of the supplement market is one big placebo, making the companies billions annually.

Talib Fiasco

I think they are worth it even though they're pretty pricey for the proper ones. I'm a college student so I need to get the vitamins in some way. I'm on a good multivitamin, fish oil and zinc. Fish oil and zinc are for my immune system, organs etc. and the multivitamin is for the general. Don't think I need anything other than them really.

Elessar

I think another poster summed it up perfectly - if you need to take multivitamins it only demonstrates a poor diet.

Unless you are training, a good diet will give you most of what you need. And if you take them too often your body can become accustomed to getting vitamins that way and will come to rely on them, rather than food.

I've a work colleague who has become a "Juice Plus" rep and constantly harks on about its health benefits, and taking it everyday. While I'm sure its true, it only serves to demonstrate his own poor diet, and if he keeps taking them he'll come to rely on them. Instead of spending a fortune on these capsules, if he spent that on good food and fed himself properly he'd be just as healthy, and financially better off.

Czarcasm

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ha! Deadly analogy, but they were just something that was recommended by my doc and perhaps now you mention it there probably is a bit of a placebo effect going on, it's not like I notice any massive difference but it could be a combination of factors like I use epsom salts in the bath, I've lost a lot of weight, I've cut red meat out of my diet (apart from the odd time my wife cooks a steak as a treat! ), but all the above has definitely eased the pain I used get in my joints.


ps: Is there anything you're not informed about?

I'd say the weight loss really helped out the most there. There's probably going to be new research published next week to the contrary anyway.



p.s. I'm not. I just read a lot of random stuff .

BillyMitchel

I take barocka (sp) and they turn my pee a very bright yellow!! I definitely get a lift from them.

Mix with an energy drink in the morning and its like taking a Jimmy Hill.

ejmaztec

BillyMitchel wrote: »

I take barocka (sp) and they turn my pee a very bright yellow!! I definitely get a lift from them.

Mix with an energy drink in the morning and its like taking a Jimmy Hill.

It gives you a huge chin?

BillyMitchel

ejmaztec wrote: »

It gives you a huge chin?

Yeah, something like that!!

Akrasia

I get a 79cent box of multi vitamin pills from lidl and take one every day or two just in case my diet of diet cola and hunkey dorey crisps misses out on some of the essential nutrients.

Probably not necesary, but it only costs about a cent a day

cazzak79

I take fish oils, b vitamins and multi vitamins
Find them great my hair, skin etc look great

nozzferrahhtoo

I think I will side with the "If you are deficient in something take it otherwise a normal varied diet is enough" crowd on this one.

Czarcasm wrote: »

I've cut red meat out of my diet (apart from the odd time my wife cooks a steak as a treat! ), but all the above has definitely eased the pain I used get in my joints.

Not directed at you but you put me in the mind of something that always brings a wry smile to my lips. People espousing the wonders of some new diet plan (like that ludicrous cayenne pepper one) or some new supplement or pill... often do so while performing all kinds of other life changes at the same time.

They change their diet, they start exercising, they sleep differently, they re-organise their schedules or some combination of one of more of these things or others.

And they start taking the new pill.

But it is the _pill_ that has been making them feel better in their minds. They take it, they feel good. So it must be that. They seem to forget entirely the other massive changes to their life they have made in parallel.

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

the data available is currently conflicting

And unfortunately much of it is contrived

The way a lot of these companies do their "trials" is patently ridiculous and unless well versed enough to understand the literature the average punter is not going to know this.

For example some arbitrarily declare a certain factor is good for preventing... say... cancer. They then notice that if you pour something... lets say Vitamin C... on a petri dish of cells it causes a useful change in this "factor" in the dish. They therefore declare happily that their pill prevents cancer.

What they do not tell you are things like:

1) The factor in question has not actually been shown to have anything to do with cancer, they just assumed it for their "Trial".

2) Pouring it into a petri dish of cells is not just slightly but ENTIRELY different to feeding into the human digestive system and some positive indicator in a petri dish tells you less than nothing about what it will do in humans.

And so forth. So while the data on these things is conflicting it appears even MORE so to those who are not trained or knowledgeable and if a study comes before them saying a vitamin pill has a benefit they know no better and simply have to take the papers word for it.

Worse many people get their information on what is good and bad in the pill world for the media where a) it is rarely science reporters who get asked to view the material and write the articles and b) many of the articles tend to get sponsored by the people selling the pill.

kraggy

tmc86 wrote: »

hence why they are called supplements - theyre to supplement deficiencies that you're not getting through diet etc.

I know, but some people think that they'll feel magically wonderful if they take a load of iron or vitamin c when they won't feel one bit of difference if they already ingest sufficient amounts in their diet.

Elessar

Elessar wrote: »

Unless you are training, a good diet will give you most of what you need.

Even when you are training perhaps. Maybe it depends on what you are training? I run 1 hour a day, cycle 1 hour a day, and do capoeira and BJJ each for 2 hours a week. Thats 18 hours total of hefty excercise and activity each week minumum. All on top of working in the garden which can involve heavy lifting and soil turning and the like.

I have not found myself feeling the worse for wear or considering the use of any supplements. Any good diet will give you what you need as you say barring medical conditions which get in the way of the normal uptake of required nutrition.

FullblownRose

Well I did quite a lot of research into this recently because I was unimpressed by the multivitamins and tonics I'd tried in the past. I have a high stress lifestyle and I needed a boost. I decided to try good quality wheatgrass capsules with no fillers or additives in them. The improvement in my feeling of wellbeing was absolutely immense. I also tried montmorency cherry concentrate because it is highly nutritious and contains melatonin, which helps you to sleep. That too gave me a real boost. Even with a good broad diet it's not always possible to get every nutrient you need and want into your system, I.m.o. I had an excellent diet but still felt that I could benefit from something extra. The condition of my skin was fantastic thanks to the supplements, now that I've run out of them my skin looks a bit tired again.

FullblownRose

FullblownRose wrote: »

Well I did quite a lot of research into this recently because I was unimpressed by the multivitamins and tonics I'd tried in the past. I have a high stress lifestyle and I needed a boost. I decided to try good quality wheatgrass capsules with no fillers or additives in them. The improvement in my feeling of wellbeing was absolutely immense. I also tried montmorency cherry concentrate because it is highly nutritious and contains melatonin, which helps you to sleep. That too gave me a real boost. Even with a good broad diet it's not always possible to get every nutrient you need and want into your system, I.m.o. I had an excellent diet but still felt that I could benefit from something extra. The condition of my skin was fantastic thanks to the supplements, now that I've run out of them my skin looks a bit tired again.

Anecdote < Evidence.

FullblownRose

Gauss wrote: »

So many people these days are taking various supplements and pills for their health and fitness. Do you think they are worth taking?

I'd be skeptical as to how beneficial many of the vitamin supplements are. Protein powder I see as a good supplement to take if that's what you'd call it because it can help you get your allowance of protein in a convenient manner.

As for most of the pills and potions, I'd be reluctant to spend my hard earned cash on supplements that might not make any difference to my health.

How do you view people who take a cocktail of supplements?

My understanding of the OP is that he/she asked for opinions, I shared my experience and my opinion. I chose not to trawl the internet for reams of links to reinforce that, However there is nothing stopping anyone from researching these things I mentioned, for themselves, if they are interested or they feel the need to.

Tar.Aldarion

Mulitvitamins no, specific vitamins for a requirement you have and are lacking, yes.

Capt'n Midnight

Candie wrote: »

If a person has no health problems and a reasonable diet, all supplements do is provide you with very expensive urine.

Anything the body can't use is excreted one way or another, so most of these huge doses are literally flushed away, unless the body can store that particular vitamin or nutrient, in which case its probably not doing any good, and hopefully not building up to any harm.

Not every thing is flushed away.

The fat soluble vitamins A,D,E,K are bad for you in excess.

If you are trying to get pregnant then taking folic acid is good,
taking too much vitamin A is very bad.

If you are feeling down then supplements may be useful for the placebo effect but taking them all the time is just daft, and there is the tiny possibility an excess may reduce your bodies ability to adsorb as much when the intake drops back to normal.

Scruffles

am prescribed circadin; which is the only form of melatonin available in europe if remember correctly,over here it is only licenced for either people over fifty or people with autism as we are both groups that lack melatonin, mine has always been severely lacking;they woudnt even prescribe sleeping pills because they knew it woudnt help get into a routine, but last year had finaly gotten prescribed circadin and the change was amazing, had been unable to go to bed till the morning when everyone else had been long up-which had a knock on effect on the day,but circadin has completely changed life,though every time am on monthlies melatonin levels drop very low so am back to the old patern again until it stabilises.

a good few years ago,a gp of mine who had expertise in autism had prescribed an experimental supplemental help for autism difficulties,it was recognised in american studies to help with a lot of issues ranging from behavior to communication to sensory issues,and an associated co morbid-hyperacusis.
-magnesium and B6 combo if remember correctly,however was not prescribed anywhere close to the minimum amount required,as the doc of mine said magnesium was damaging to females;think he had said some sort of organ damage,anyway there was no positive benefit out of the tiny he amount he gave,was just kept on the B6 and have been on it ever since.

Ruudi_Mentari

adding protein to my milk but might have to actually do stuff to get it working. Hoping it still helps prop me up regardless at 25 lids a week but must learn to eat more / get the blood moving... experiment in laziness ends here. Yeah, that's what it was, an experiment

Bad Santa

Most synthetic vitamins and the like do more harm than good but there are some great food supplements such as: Cold Pressed Coconut Oil, Acerola Cherry Powder and Licorice Root. Do I have proof that these are as healthy as I claim or that they benefited my health in the way I imply? Well, yes I do actually, as I purposely cloned myself 30 times in the garden shed one night many years ago and to cut a very long story short: the 15 of me that were on sugar pills all went mad and eat each other. While the other 15 me that took a concoction of the aforementioned three food supplements, are all so very very healthy, too healthy in fact. To the point were I have actually decided to open an all male strip club to cash in on having access to such an amount of male perfection.

StormWarrior

I think supplements are a total waste of money. Being vegan, I got some super-strength vitamin B12 tablets. Each tablet had about 16000 times the daily RDA of vitamin B12 in it (you supposedly can't overdose on B12) and I was taking several a day for ages. But after a while I started to feel faint and breathless, and got blackouts. The doctor did some bloodtests to find out what was wrong with me. Guess what? Anaemia caused by a severe vitamin b12 deficiency! My body just wasn't absorbing the supplements at all. Now I have to have B12 injections from the doctor every 3 months.

mikemac1

Ginseng gets me through a hard/boring day as an office drone.
Don't take it always, maybe 2-3 days a month

Can buy it in Tesco, dissolve with water

Or maybe I've just convinced myself it works?

Berrocca is many, many times the price. You're just paying for their expensive marketing campaign and the brand name

Gauss

StormWarrior wrote: »

I think supplements are a total waste of money. Being vegan, I got some super-strength vitamin B12 tablets. Each tablet had about 16000 times the daily RDA of vitamin B12 in it (you supposedly can't overdose on B12) and I was taking several a day for ages. But after a while I started to feel faint and breathless, and got blackouts. The doctor did some bloodtests to find out what was wrong with me. Guess what? Anaemia caused by a severe vitamin b12 deficiency! My body just wasn't absorbing the supplements at all. Now I have to have B12 injections from the doctor every 3 months.

Just eat meat, simple.

NIMAN

mikemac1 wrote: »

Ginseng gets me through a hard/boring day as an office drone.
Don't take it always, maybe 2-3 days a month

Can buy it in Tesco, dissolve with water

Or maybe I've just convinced myself it works?

Berrocca is many, many times the price. You're just paying for their expensive marketing campaign and the brand name

I compared Berocca ingredients to those on a tube of similar from Tesco own brand.

Both had the exact same ingredients, in the same order, at the same strengths.

Just slightly different tastes. Probably made in the same factory.

byhookorbycrook

I take Vit D, as I have MS and lack of Vit D is linked with MS-the Shetlands have one of the highest rates of MS in the world. I also tak vit b and omega oils(again, linked to my MS)

StormWarrior

Gauss wrote: »

Just eat meat, simple.

No thanks.

El_Dangeroso

Candie wrote: »

There's only so much protein your body needs per day too, even if you're muscle building.

Completely agree, cringe when I see people downing protein shakes to get 200g a day when all you need when building muscle is maybe an extra 15-20g a day. Anything more is a waste of money

Candie wrote: »

Ten minutes daily, in daylight with your face exposed, will provide you with enough vitamin D.

Sorry, but calling shenanigans on this one, maybe in southern california but not at this latitude. We have shocking rates of vitamin D deficiency in this country, both young and old, and there are studies to prove this.

The very fact that every newborn must be supplemented with vitamin D will tell you something there.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you are trying to get pregnant then taking folic acid is good,
taking too much vitamin A is very bad.

Vitamin A only becomes toxic when there is no vitamin D to balance it, they act in a synergistic fashion and prevent toxicity in one another. The only evidence that vitamin A supplementation is harmful comes from a swedish study, the swedes are notable for having higher levels of vitamin D deficiency.

Having said all that the best supplements come in food form as we still don't know all the co-factors necessary to properly utilise nutrients.

Eat liver twice a week, lots of colourful vegetables, no junkfood and you really won't go too far wrong.

Gummy Panda

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Completely agree, cringe when I see people downing protein shakes to get 200g a day when all you need when building muscle is maybe an extra 15-20g a day. Anything more is a waste of money

Even though resistance training increases the ceiling on protein synthesis?

I've read 1-1.5/lb bw is a good target for strength and power athletes as it will provide enough for protein synthesis and any excess AA will be oxidised and that some researchers feel that oxidation may contribute to the overall anabolic drive.

El_Dangeroso

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Even though resistance training increases the ceiling on protein synthesis?

I've read 1-1.5/lb bw is a good target for strength and power athletes as it will provide enough for protein synthesis and any excess AA will be oxidised and that some researchers feel that oxidation may contribute to the overall anabolic drive.

I think 1-1.5/lb bw isn't needed at all and may in fact be counterproductive. Most muscle building requires extra calories, not extra protein. Protein is ridiculously satiating and reduces appetite making it harder to eat sufficient calories.

20g supplemental BCAAs should do just fine along with an increase in either fat or carb calories.(Prob better carbs for glycogen replenishment and the anabolic effect of insulin).

You can store 30g of protein in muscle a day (if you are VERY lucky - avg closer to 15g/day) so no point shoving down 200g protein if it's not helping allowing you to eat the excess cals you need to actually get the protein in there.

1.5g/kg bodyweight is more than enough.

brokenarms

st johns wort stops me from killing the neighbours sh1ting and barking dog.