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50th Episode - Here there be Spoilers

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  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Coldzone


    mach1982 wrote: »
    I don't think that the Hurt Doctor ( the War Doctor ) counts as a true regeneration , as it was a forced one

    I think you do have to count it as they said all 13 and not all of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭aligator_am


    I'm assuming that the
    Tom Baker cameo somehow ties in to how all the earlier versions of the Doctor show up, when 11 appears to come up with the idea it's like the idea then transfers to his previous incarnations.
    By the looks of it the seed of the idea was planted back in the original Doctor, wonder if it ties in with Clara jumping in to his timestream?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭aligator_am


    mach1982 wrote: »
    I don't think that the Hurt Doctor ( the War Doctor ) counts as a true regeneration , as it was a forced one , cause technical there been 14 may be even 15 doctors,if you count the Meta-Crisis version of 10, and Doctor-Donna . !0 did say that Meta 10 is him . Also the War Doctor said as he regenerating that "it makes sense ", as he is no-longer needed.

    PS :Just there might be 16 and there was a ganger Doctor too

    In that minisode / webisode didn't the priestess tell him that he had died?

    Wonder if whatever goulash they gave him extended his regenerations, or better yet, if he died and they brought him back to life without a regen does it reset so he has another 12 from that point on :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Coldzone


    In that minisode / webisode didn't the priestess tell him that he had died?

    Wonder if whatever goulash they gave him extended his regenerations, or better yet, if he died and they brought him back to life without a regen does it reset so he has another 12 from that point on :P

    I'm thinking Capaldi is 13 and last but when he goes he will bring back the Time Lords as his final act and they will give him a new set of regenerations


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana



    Actually in his last ever episode, when he meets the Ood who tells him he should have come sooner and he starts telling him all the things he's been doing he says he married and then left Elizabeth. Nice to see it come up again though.
    pixelburp wrote: »
    Ok, I ... acquired ... the episode and skipped right to the end and Tom Baker's cameo. That voice. The twinkle in the eye. The mannerisms. The tics such as when he starts a sentence with that rumbling 'ohhhh...'. Absolutely marvellous. He's as mad as a bag of snakes but damnit the man was glorious.

    And you know what? Most of Baker's stories made little sense and had plotholes wide enough to park a truck in, an argument made by most of Moffat's detractors. But it's Baker's force of personality that stays in the memory, making those old stories so cherished and I think in time the same will be said of Smith.

    Well it all depends what you look for a show at the end of the day. I can totally understand why other people enjoyed this episode but I am and always will be stickler for writing, just who I am. I know I might seem like I hate Moffat sometimes but I don't, I got ridiculously excited when I saw the trailer for Sherlock. I'm just not a huge fan of some of his stuff on Doctor Who these days (although I prefer the tone of the show as a whole since he took over). Different strokes and all that... I am delighted Gallifrey is back though, a lot of potential there. I was very grumpy earlier, I should reflect before I write. :P

    Edit: Also I know Doctor Who was never hugely well known for it's writing but I do feel it has at time been written better than is now (and again this is just how I feel, I get others are really happy with the current quality).


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    I've only watched the new (2005+) episodes, have they ever explained why there is only 13 generations, is it a biological limit, or is it possibly a social convention?

    I did read somewhere that the time lord council can grant more regenerations, so there is always that way out, but I wonder if there's some other way too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭T-Bird


    That was eggcelent and thought it was better in cinema, first time I saw anything in 3D as well (actualy ducked a few times :P). It was good hearing some of the reactions from the audience, there was a few gasps of excitment from some of the kids there when the Cybermans head appeared. Good to see Basq there as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭Mr.Saturn


    jasonb wrote: »

    Was that definitely Ecclestone that Hurt was regenerating into?

    It was. I went back to make sure, but Eccleston's face is every so slightly photo-grafted onto Hurt's. They pull out of it at the right time, lest too much attention be brought to it, but it's definitely Eccleston's mush coming through.

    eccleston.jpg
    stevenmu wrote: »
    I've only watched the new (2005+) episodes, have they ever explained why there is only 13 generations, is it a biological limit, or is it possibly a social convention?

    It was a bit of plot expediency carried over from Tom Baker's 'The Deadly Assassin', done to cover the death of Delgado's Master, and why he was hunting The Doctor, as he wanted Doc's remaining regeneration. So, you get the classic series simultaneously placing an arbitrary limit on itself, and then immediately offering an out. Even within its native episode, the limit was never expanded on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Sorry, but I just didn't enjoy the (The Day Of The Doctor) 50th year anniversary 'mini movie' at all :(

    Too much head wrecking stuff, and with John Hurt as yet another Doctor, No, no, no.

    I thought the script was all over the place, and I feel totally deflated after the build up to what was rubbish in my opinion, but then again I have travelled here from another time, when Patrick Troughton was passing the timelords batton to John Pertwee :))

    The Daily Mail agrees with me > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2512488/Doctor-Whos-50th-anniversary-episode-reminds-Matt-Smith-David-Tennant-irritating.html

    Some of that link gave me a laugh:
    "Given that it was so special, it made the decision to screen it at 7.50pm after Strictly and directly opposite The X Factor all the more perverse and, frankly, annoying."

    When the reviewer is annoyed at having to miss x factor I automatically stop taking the rest seriously.


  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Coldzone


    I've just watched it again and Tom Baker stole the show! !!!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Coldzone wrote: »
    I've just watched it again and Tom Baker stole the show! !!!!!

    I thought Tom's appearance was totally wasted (as was the appearance of mascara Rose).

    At least Tom could have offered Matt a Jelly Baby as a nod to the past?

    The_Doctor_offering_jelly_babies.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Yep, the Daily Mail review is terrible, and not in a scathing way, more in a badly written way! Apart from complaining about missing X Factor, it got basic facts about the episode wrong (Billie Piper does *not* play 'Rose, who is the Doctor's conscience'!).

    That makes sense about Smith's Doctor remembering as the time line is his present (well, at least as much sense as anything involving time travel does! :) ).

    Regarding some of Baker's lines at the end ('And in years to come you might find yourself revisiting a few. Just the old favourites of course.'), would it be reading into them too much to suggest they might be a subtle little dig at Ecclestone? They revisited some old faces last night, but Ecclestone wasn't one of them, not one of the favourite as it were...

    I think it's safe to say that Capaldi is now the 13th Doctor, we saw 12 of them at the very end and as someone pointed out, even 'all 12, no, 13' (or words to that effect) were said during the episode. It'll be fun to see how Internet fora handle the change, will Hurt just become 9 and everyone else move up one, or will some sort of 8.5 be used? :) I'll be going for 9 myself. Sure, we'll see what official Merchandise starts calling them all...

    I forgot to say, I love the scene with the Doctors figuring out a very clever way to open the door, using all 400 years of experience, but then the door wasn't even locked! And, of course, it wasn't locked 'cos the Queen wasn't the alien. Which brings me back to an earlier question: if she wasn't the alien, why was she continuing to go through with the Alien's plan and sending them to the future? :)

    J.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    By the way people I've decided in my own personal canon that the curator is an ancient elder of the universe that can be found in galleries and museums across space and time should a person really need to.

    However he does not always wear the same face, and has therefore also been Bill Nighy and John Cleese.

    As personal canon of course this is 100% correct and exactly what Moffat was intending :)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Something else that registers...

    Am I right in saying that when The Master helped the Doctor send the timelords back during Tennant's finale, he went back to Gallifrey with them? And as such, now that it's coming back, he can come back too?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,457 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Io9 has what I think to be a fairly interesting review, pointing out the parallels between the zygons and the doctor, and that the aliens' presence in the story wasn't entirely arbitrary or fan-service for the sake of it. I thought it made for a good read, tying together motifs and themes I honestly didn't pick up on as I watched (for instance, moffat mocking his own invention of "timey wimey")

    http://io9.com/the-great-hero-of-the-doctor-who-anniversary-special-is-1470394088


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    flazio wrote: »
    Everyone who was in screen 8 in the Eye, thank you. Best Experience Ever.
    Was at the third row from the front of the screen, loved the English guy shouting "Who turned off the lights?" and then, the quote I found even funnier but didn't get a laugh, right before Grax came on screen "Silence will fall!". No, it was great. Everyone was laughing, gasping and clapping, although the clap for Calpadi was a bit too much IMO. But a great 85 minutes!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    I just read that Daily Mail "review". What an absolute heap of nonsense, clearly written by someone with no interest or real knowledge of those show.

    X-Factor... Jackass


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,984 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    jasonb wrote: »
    I think it's safe to say that Capaldi is now the 13th Doctor, we saw 12 of them at the very end and as someone pointed out, even 'all 12, no, 13' (or words to that effect) were said during the episode. It'll be fun to see how Internet fora handle the change, will Hurt just become 9 and everyone else move up one, or will some sort of 8.5 be used? :) I'll be going for 9 myself. Sure, we'll see what official Merchandise starts calling them all...

    The Time War will be overshadowed by the Wikipedia Edit War.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Something else that registers...

    Am I right in saying that when The Master helped the Doctor send the timelords back during Tennant's finale, he went back to Gallifrey with them? And as such, now that it's coming back, he can come back too?

    No one knows what happened to the Master. He went to plot device hotel where the Joker and Megatron hang out whenever they disappear in mysterious circumstances at the end of a story!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    When the reviewer is annoyed at having to miss x factor I automatically stop taking the rest seriously.
    When it's in the Daily Mail I automatically stop taking it seriously.
    jasonb wrote: »
    Regarding some of Baker's lines at the end ('And in years to come you might find yourself revisiting a few. Just the old favourites of course.'), would it be reading into them too much to suggest they might be a subtle little dig at Ecclestone? They revisited some old faces last night, but Ecclestone wasn't one of them, not one of the favourite as it were...

    I took that line as meaning in later regenerations he'll take on new version of old faces (explaining why Tom looked older than he ever was as the Doctor). But then that would possibly require Tom to come back at some point depending how long the show lasts so who knows. You never can tell with Moffat. I think Eccleston is among a lot of peoples favourites. He's one of mine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,235 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Went to it in the Coolock Odeon where there were a few people cosplaying as 12 and a girl dressed as a Cyberman. The little man loved it even if he didn't quite understand it all, most of his favourite bits would have been bits that passed beneath my radar e.g.: the Doctor hanging off the bottom of the TARDIS, the Dalek blasting through the picture etc.

    Absolutely loved it. Some lovely nods to the original including the clock outside the school showing 5:15, the original airing time of An Unearthly Child.

    I'd be another that thought Ecclestone's absence reflected poorly on him. Unless he was being passed up for other stuff by the BBC after due to bad blood over his quitting the show and therefore had some justifiable gripe with them it seems rather petty not to show up for half a day of filming for the series that remains the largest profile role he's had in his career to date.

    "All 13" could have a very simple explanation: The Doctor believes he only has 12 regenerations until the very end of Capaldi's doctor, 13 (or he at least only discovers his extra regenerations post this event in his timeline) . Not knowing he has regenerations beyond that point, none of the doctors before or up to 13 would be aware of any future doctors so couldn't contact them for assistance and any future doctors would know they weren't needed as 1 - 13 were sufficiently able to do the job the "first time" around.

    The Tom Baker scene made no sense at all but no matter how dodgy the excuse they come up with for it, it was brilliantly worthwhile imo. If you really expect air-tight internal logic from Doctor Who after 50 years you've rather missed the point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Callipo


    Loved it. I started watching the series originally when Tom was the Doctor. Spent a lot of the time behind the couch though :/

    From the moment this episode started in the same way as An Unearthly Child, I started smiling and didn't stop.

    Here is to enjoying many more years of Doctor Who. Because, you know, Who knows?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    jasonb wrote: »
    I forgot to say, I love the scene with the Doctors figuring out a very clever way to open the door, using all 400 years of experience, but then the door wasn't even locked! And, of course, it wasn't locked 'cos the Queen wasn't the alien. Which brings me back to an earlier question: if she wasn't the alien, why was she continuing to go through with the Alien's plan and sending them to the future? :)

    J.

    She couldn't defeat them in her time, the best way to defeat them was to get the Doctor to do it in the future. So she let them lock themselves away in stasis and then put orders in place to have the stasis paintings hidden away and to have the Doctor brought in when something happened (i.e. the aliens coming back out of stasis), which brings us neatly back to the Doctor being summoned by UNIT at the start of the episode.

    Quite clever by Moffat really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    Some of that link gave me a laugh:
    "Given that it was so special, it made the decision to screen it at 7.50pm after Strictly and directly opposite The X Factor all the more perverse and, frankly, annoying."

    When the reviewer is annoyed at having to miss x factor I automatically stop taking the rest seriously.

    What would you expect from a paper that cares more about z- list celebs. Theses type people see sici-fi fans in general as , geeks and nerds , some thing to be ridiculed . They view importance on wealth, stupidity and ignorance, we view importance on intelligence ,individualism and acceptance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Ron Burgundy !


    correct me if i'm wrong but all 13 doctors came together to save gallifrey right? what i'm wondering is how did that work ? even if tennant and john hurt forgot saving gallifrey wouldn't the other doctors remember it therefore making tennant and hurt remember? other that that moffat did a good job tying loose ends up for once. I was grinning the whole way through the special very well done :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    correct me if i'm wrong but all 13 doctors came together to save gallifrey right? what i'm wondering is how did that work ? even if tennant and john hurt forgot saving gallifrey wouldn't the other doctors remember it therefore making tennant and hurt remember? other that that moffat did a good job tying loose ends up for once. I was grinning the whole way through the special very well done :)


    I could explain it to you, but its all timey wimey wibbly wobbly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭mach1982


    When it's in the Daily Mail I automatically stop taking it seriously.



    I took that line as meaning in later regenerations he'll take on new version of old faces (explaining why Tom looked older than he ever was as the Doctor). But then that would possibly require Tom to come back at some point depending how long the show lasts so who knows. You never can tell with Moffat. I think Eccleston is among a lot of peoples favourites. He's one of mine.

    The Doctor saves Gallfrey, and he will at some point bring it back.As a reward they might give him a new regeneration cycle , or allow him to chooses one to retire with .


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,871 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Some of that link gave me a laugh:
    "Given that it was so special, it made the decision to screen it at 7.50pm after Strictly and directly opposite The X Factor all the more perverse and, frankly, annoying."

    When the reviewer is annoyed at having to miss x factor I automatically stop taking the rest seriously.

    A singing completion where the singers cannot sing, and neither can most of the judges either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,216 ✭✭✭MrVestek


    Achilles wrote: »
    I still think Moffat is using this as a vehicle to rewrite the time war and bring back the timelords.

    I seem to recall reading or seeing a few interviews with Moffat expressing disappointment that the timelords were killed off and of him being tired of the doctor being this lonely sad old man as a consequence.

    I'd just like to point out that I totally called it. :P


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    Achilles wrote: »
    I'd just like to point out that I totally called it. :P

    I had feeling it might be the case but it was more built on blind hope than anything else.


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