Anti religion in Ireland

Dick phelan

First off i have to say i am not a practicing catholic however it seems to me that so many people in ireland and on boards have no tolerance to other peoples faith, Every time a religious person seems to express an opinion on boards ie the abortion debates they get put down and insulted being called out dated religious idiots frankly everyone has a right to have their faith and hold certain views based on that faith so why are so many on boards against religion and people who follow it in general

Sarky

This will end well.

The_Gatsby

BOARDZ NEEDZ MOAR JEZUS

brummytom

Here we go again...

jaffacakesyum

It's only on boards.ie to be honest. Most people in real life are quite pro-religion in my opinion. Just look at all the a la carte Catholics who aren't religious themselves but don't denounce their faith and are still quite proud to call themselves Catholic.

Personally, I am not anti any religion. People are free to their own beliefs. It's when religion influences society and law that p1sses me off.

the groutch

I myself (and others) have no problem with people having religious beliefs.
it's when they try force these beliefs onto us, or try use them to dictate how we lead our lives that I take issue.

Death and Taxes

Sarky wrote: »

This will end well.

No, it won't, it will end oh so badly!:rolleyes:

TwoShedsJackson

Dick phelan wrote: »

frankly everyone has a right to have their faith and hold certain views based on that faith so why are so many on boards against religion and people who follow it in general

They certainly do have a right to their faith. What they don't have a right to is to attempt to force other people to conform what they regard as morally acceptable.

AnonoBoy

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

It's only on boards.ie to be honest.

It's not.

My Facebook feed is full of people complaining about the outdated views of religious people in Ireland who want to force their views on the rest of us.

Czarcasm

With a name like Dick feelin' phelan, I have to ask-

Do you work in a semenary?

Owen_S

If I believed in a zombie resurrecting and saving the world, I would expect people to take the piss.

Sarky

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

No, it won't, it will end oh so badly!:rolleyes:

It's won't bloody end at all, in reality. Time and again someone will say "Hey, would you mind not enforcing your religious belief on me?" and someone will go off and shout "OMG them atiests are so intolerant!" And then Phil will say something about jebubs, people will call him out, he'll disappear, others will make stupid claims and when called on their bull will hide behind "whatever man just my opinion" like that's some kind of excuse for being thicker than pigsh*t.

The whole tedious cycle of repetitive asshattery is doomed to continue forever.

Dick phelan

Czarcasm wrote: »

With a name like Dick feelin' phelan, I have to ask-

Do you work in a semenary?

Lol No ye i must say the name seemed somewhat funny one drunken night not so much now anyway my point is it would be almost impossible to not allow in some way to have a persons faith influence their disictions on voting for laws even in their subconciousness

dollypet

There is nothing wrong with religion. I'm a catholic myself. The problem arises when so called "religious" people feel the need to start ramming their belief process down the throats of other people.

I think it’s fair to say that we in this country have had enough of that. Added to that the too close relationship between church and state. Now there are historical reasons for this but it gave rise to a homogenisation of Irish culture where only a certain type of person was considered "good" and "respectable" *shudders*.

THIS is what people find offensive. Certainly what I find offensive. When the main tenet of my religion is be in tune with your god and try to be the best person you can. This has been moulded and morphed into be disrespectful of anyone who does not (at least publicly) follow your (not you in particular OP) very narrow view of the world.

Rented Mule

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

It's only on boards.ie to be honest. Most people in real life are quite pro-religion in my opinion. Just look at all the a la carte Catholics who aren't religious themselves but don't denounce their faith and are still quite proud to call themselves Catholic.

I often wonder how much of that is more to do with being 'Irish' in the nationalistic sense.

Personally, I am not anti any religion. People are free to their own beliefs. It's when religion influences society and law that p1sses me off.

Couldn't agree more with you.

im invisible

Havnt read the OP, but thanked it, because you can never have enough religion threads on After Hours

The King of Moo

I'm not religious, but people have every right to try to impose their religious beliefs on others through legislation if they're elected individuals operating within the framework of the law. And religious people have every right to try to influence them.

I might not like it, but if people with religious beliefs are elected to public office, one can't expect those people not to be influenced by their beliefs, be they religious or otherwise.

stateofflux

i have a big problem with faiths that believe in restricting peoples freedom. i.e. most religions.In Ireland i cannot respect catholicism given its blanket dehumanizing view of Homosexuals, its views on women & archaic abortion standpoint & completely reprehensible cover up of child abuse & insulting response to its victims.

awec

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm not religious, but people have every right to try to impose their religious beliefs on others through legislation if they're elected individuals operating within the framework of the law. And religious people have every right to try to influence them.

I might not like it, but if people with religious beliefs are elected to public office, one can't expect those people not to be influenced by their beliefs, be they religious or otherwise.

Er, no.

The King of Moo

awec wrote: »

Er, no.

Excellent contribution.

Esoteric_

There are a few people here who are vehemently anti-religion, I think we can all agree on that.

However, I think most of the people here who shoot down religious peoples' opinions are arguing because of how things are phrased, not the religious reasoning behind it.

Personally, I was raised Roman Catholic, lost my faith about 6 years ago, and am much happier not having faith in religion. I respect peoples' religious beliefs, but I fully expect my lack of said beliefs to be respected, too. If they're not, I will rip apart religious beliefs.

biko

Considering all the crap religion has done in this country I'm not surprised at all people are anti-religion. And not just pedos and laundries, I'm talking 2 hours masses and general interfering in people's lives.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I'm not religous at all. it has caused more hassle, death and agro worldwide than anything else.

Plus, Catholics have touched an awful amount of kids. How could you support an organisation that ruined generations?

AnonoBoy

biko wrote: »

Considering all the crap religion has done in this country I'm not surprised at all people are anti-religion. And not just pedos and laundries, I'm talking 2 hours masses and general interfering in people's lives.

Yeah, forget the child-rape those 2 hour masses were murder.

awec

The King of Moo wrote: »

Excellent contribution.

It was as excellent as your contribution.

Fromthetrees

I think being anti religion is quite an understandable view to come around to as an Irish person. I believe in God, I don't believe in organised religion but absolutely think there should be a total separation of religion from the state.

Seeing pictures of Dev kissing the ring of a bishop (he he) in public makes me cringe, watching a member of the clergy throw the ball up to start an All-Ireland final is sickening considering what the fuck they did to countless little children in the safety of their mansions and lavish buildings.

We cannot allow the Catholic Church to rule over the country with an iron fist ever again and I'd have no problem in expanding my anti RCC feeling to any religion that simply wants control over society, Islam, Scientology et al can piss right off as well.

bluecode

As Biko says. It simply isn't surprising that more people are less tolerant of religion than they ever were. Considering the damage done in this country in the name of religion, not just the Catholic Church either. More than that they continue to attempt to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

Frankly I personally have become less tolerant of religious people. Beginning the view them as deluded individuals. Not always their fault of course. But I can no more take them seriously than if they told me they believe in fairies or are kidnapped by aliens every night. But of course religion has evolved into something very complex and multi facetted and has attained a certain respectability. But ultimately they all boil down to one absurd premise. That there's some kind of supernational being out there who runs the universe.

Seriously? At what point does that begin to make sense?

Benny_Cake

dollypet wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with religion. I'm a catholic myself. The problem arises when so called "religious" people feel the need to start ramming their belief process down the throats of other people.

Is that really much of an issue in this country any more though?

I'm just about old enough to remember the early 90s and the ridiculous controversy over condoms being sold in Virgin Megastore. Although the Catholic Church was steadily losing influence at the time it still packed a serious punch. Now, as a dominant force in the country, it's finished. Just one voice among many. In effect, in terms of it's influence on law and public life in this country, the war has been won even if the full terms of the surrender have yet to be agreed. And yes, I'm aware of the educations system, but change has started there. Gay marriage is likely to be legal before the end of the decade, thankfully. The abortion debate rages on but I don't buy that as a theist/atheist dispute anyway.

So I'm not sure if the subject warrants all the attention it gets here. If Boards existed in the 80s, definitely. 10 years ago, possibly. In 2013, not much.

Lapin

im invisible wrote: »

Havnt read the OP, but thanked it, because you can never have enough religion threads on After Hours

I love this post .

two wheels good

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm not religious, but people have every right to try to impose their religious beliefs on others through legislation if they're elected individuals operating within the framework of the law. And religious people have every right to try to influence them.

I might not like it, but if people with religious beliefs are elected to public office, one can't expect those people not to be influenced by their beliefs, be they religious or otherwise.

You're not democratic either. "The right to imposing their religious beliefs on others". astonishing! Don't you agree with the US 1st amendment?

The logical conclusion of this attitude is a society that will more resemble Saudi Arabia or Iran than any enlightened European nation.

The King of Moo

awec wrote: »

Er, no.

awec wrote: »

It was as excellent as your contribution.

This is the level of debate that generally makes me avoid threads on religion.

I'm always happy to have my points challenged and debate them in a reasonable manner.

Lyaiera

I'm anti-religion. I have yet to find a religion that doesn't have a warped sense of beliefs or morals (some come close though.) If religions are free to think gays are evil sinners going to hell, I'm free to think religions are disgusting abuses of humanity.

two wheels good

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Is that really much of an issue in this country any more though?

I'm just about old enough to remember the early 90s and the ridiculous controversy over condoms being sold in Virgin Megastore. Although the Catholic Church was steadily losing influence at the time it still packed a serious punch. Now, as a dominant force in the country, it's finished. Just one voice among many. In effect, in terms of it's influence on law and public life in this country, the war has been won even if the full terms of the surrender have yet to be agreed. And yes, I'm aware of the educations system, but change has started there. Gay marriage is likely to be legal before the end of the decade, thankfully. The abortion debate rages on but I don't buy that as a theist/atheist dispute anyway.

So I'm not sure if the subject warrants all the attention it gets here. If Boards existed in the 80s, definitely. 10 years ago, possibly. In 2013, not much.

You're too complacent. The loosening of the grip of the catholic church on society, legislation and peoples lives has a long way to go yet. Try finding a secular school in your area for one thing.

Lapin

dollypet wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with religion......

Oooh, I'm tempted by that one I must admit.

By the thorns of Christ I'm so fúckin tempted.


But I won't. - Not here anyway.

Biggins

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm not religious, but people have every right to try to impose their religious beliefs on others through legislation if they're elected individuals operating within the framework of the law. And religious people have every right to try to influence them.

I might not like it, but if people with religious beliefs are elected to public office, one can't expect those people not to be influenced by their beliefs, be they religious or otherwise.

I would like my country laws not to influenced by invisible men such as Jesus, Mohammed or even aliens (Scientology).
I want them to exist and operate in the practical nature of humans and the standard accepted morals of the day - not of centuries ago or of frankly sometimes plainly wacky stuff!

Benny_Cake

two wheels good wrote: »

You're too complacent. The loosening of the grip of the catholic church on society, legislation and peoples lives has a long way to go yet. Try finding a secular school in your area for one thing.

There's one in my area with a second to open within the next three years. You're correct that there isn't quite the level of choice in a lot of the country as there should be but parents are often to blame in that regard. I believe that the level of feedback to the recent Department of Education survey was very poor.

ITS_A_BADGER

jesus another religion thread and its not even easter yet!

The King of Moo

Biggins wrote: »

I would like my country laws not to influenced by invisible men such as Jesus, Mohammed or even aliens (Scientology).
I want them to exist and operate in the practical nature of humans and the standard accepted morals of the day - not of centuries ago or of frankly sometimes plainly wacky stuff!

So would I, and I believe in the separation of Church and State, but the fact is that people will always be influenced by their various beliefs when making decisions. Even if TDs were required to officially state that they won't let their beliefs influence their decisions, how do you stop them from actually being so influenced?

If people want to stop politicians being influenced by their beliefs or stop people voting for religious people they need to get out there getting politicians to go public with their beliefs and campaigning against religious influence on political decisions.

Peanut2011

Dick phelan wrote: »

First off i have to say i am not a practicing catholic however it seems to me that so many people in ireland and on boards have no tolerance to other peoples faith, Every time a religious person seems to express an opinion on boards ie the abortion debates they get put down and insulted being called out dated religious idiots frankly everyone has a right to have their faith and hold certain views based on that faith so why are so many on boards against religion and people who follow it in general

I would not say people are against their religions but rather against the fact that their religious beliefs are pushed out on others, abortion being perfect example.

I have no problem with anyone practicing religion but that should be your private thing and should not affect my life.

Biggins

The King of Moo wrote: »

So would I, and I believe in the separation of Church and State, but the fact is that people will always be influenced by their various beliefs when making decisions...

Its their right to be influenced if they want to - but in practical matters, all religion should not interfere with the running of any state.

I would defend a persons right to hold religious ideas - I would not defend their right to interject those ideas on others through law - for it alone leads to discrimination forced upon those of not a similar religious nature or be they atheist.

Knasher

If people don't want their religion attacked in an argument, then they shouldn't base their argument on their religion. Surely that's just common sense. If I were to present a logical argument that X is supported by Y, then the counter argument would most likely either be that X isn't supported by Y or that Y isn't true.

I mean what exactly are you asking for here, that every time somebody makes a religious argument, those of us that disagree should just concede the point?

gallag

I think it is perfectly acceptable to hate religion, the cause of war and suffering, its held mankind back and caused atrocities around the globe. Can any religious person explain to me whe the Vatican/coe holds so much wealth when thousands die every day of starvation? Religion sickens me, even religious people must admit the world would be better without it?

keithsfleet

Every now and then I love popping in to the religious thread and mixing it up a bit with the timeless classic "evolution aye, wonder what the gods made of that"

The King of Moo

Biggins wrote: »

Its their right to be influenced if they want to - but in practical matters, all religion should not interfere with the running of any state.

I would defend a persons right to hold religious ideas - I would not defend their right to interject those ideas on others through law - for it alone leads to discrimination forced upon those of not a similar religious nature or be they atheist.

I agree, and think there should be no direct influence of religion on the state.
But in practical terms, it's very difficult to, for example, prove that a politician's call for restrictive abortion legislation, is religiously motivated. It's hard to stop people being motivated by their private beliefs.

But I've no problem with people trying to find out politicians' religious affiliations and making voters aware of who they might be voting for.

Biggins

The King of Moo wrote: »

...But in practical terms, it's very difficult to...

I agree but this is why a democratic system while not perfect, is as close as we can get presently to a fairer system.
We create (hopefully) clear cut laws under it so that religion and other external influences are locked out of a possible resulting outcome.

In other words, like Enda Kenny personally feels about abortion and gay marriage, he's forced to keep his views to himself and go alone with the passing of a law created democratically - again through a pure legal system of procedures as laid out in statute, not of religious ones.

the_syco

Dick phelan wrote: »

so why are so many on boards against religion and people who follow it in general

So, we should be nice to you, but you don't have to be nice to us? GTFO!

humanji

There's no need for even more religion threads in AH. There's several Religion & Spirituality forums that are perfect for these kinds of threads.