Oil or Gas??

psychhead

Hi all,

We are just looking into a new system and are undecided on which to go for. At the moment we have an oil boiler (which we would like to upgrade anyway), the house will more than likely have to be replumbed, as there is a new extension being added on and old piping isnt great. We are also planning on having a stove with back boiler so the oil/gas will really just be for the odd time we turn in on as a back up. That said I am planning on a dual type cooker (the electric oven with gas rings on top, so the gas would be handier than maybe having a cannister outside). So the question is do we just upgrade our current boiler to a newer more efficient oil boiler, or do we go with gas? Flogas seem to be offering some deal for a new boiler if you switch, that interested me a bit. However cost wise in the long run, which would you guys advise?
Thanks!

TPM

psychhead wrote: »

Hi all,

We are just looking into a new system and are undecided on which to go for. At the moment we have an oil boiler (which we would like to upgrade anyway), the house will more than likely have to be replumbed, as there is a new extension being added on and old piping isnt great. We are also planning on having a stove with back boiler so the oil/gas will really just be for the odd time we turn in on as a back up. That said I am planning on a dual type cooker (the electric oven with gas rings on top, so the gas would be handier than maybe having a cannister outside). So the question is do we just upgrade our current boiler to a newer more efficient oil boiler, or do we go with gas? Flogas seem to be offering some deal for a new boiler if you switch, that interested me a bit. However cost wise in the long run, which would you guys advise?
Thanks!

Firstly I am an oil man.
IMO:
Mains gas versus oil no contest gas wins hands down.
LPG Gas (bulk tank) versus oil I would go for oil.
LPG isnt as cheap as mains gas, not sure how much tank rental installation are, you are contracted to your supplier including fill times and amounts. With oil you have the option of various suppliers and can usually fill or top up with how much you want when you want.
You would need to find out make and model of the free boiler from flogas before you consider it there is a huge difference in the reliability and warranty of different boilers.

In relation to your Gas hob, its surprising how long the cylinder can last with them.

dpofloinn

I agree with the above Mains gas all the way if you can get connected otherwise oil is the way to go

psychhead

Cheers, I guess oil it is then as pretty sure we are too far away from the mains. Thanks!

shane0007

I am an oil & gas man.

IMHO it depends on the type of system you have to see which it better. If you have a very zoned system, upstairs, downstairs & hw circuits all separate, TRV's installed, then a gas boiler is better, even LPG. Cost per kwh of natural gas is approx 6.6 cent per kwh. Oil is about 9.5 cent per kwh as is LPG. These are delivered costs so it included levies, vat, delivery, tank rentals, etc.
A gas boiler is better in this situation because it can modulate. If your total demand is say 25kw, when all zones are cold & calling, the gas boiler can give 25kw as will the oil boiler give 25kw. But as the system becomes hot or zones close down, the demand may only be say 12kw. An oil boiler will always be on top of the heat delivering 25kw as it fires, thus short cycling. The system only taking 12kw but getting 25kw worth of fuel. Wasteful. The gas boiler can turn the flame down to only deliver 12kw as it monitors the return temperature & delivers the exact kw required. The boiler stays on for longer, less stress on the boiler but on low heat, therefore the demand curve is much more consistent rather than like a yo yo.
If the system is not zoned and heating everything all at once, then the will probably perform quite equally in the overall scheme of things.

shagal

shane0007 wrote: »

I am an oil & gas man.

IMHO it depends on the type of system you have to see which it better. If you have a very zoned system, upstairs, downstairs & hw circuits all separate, TRV's installed, then a gas boiler is better, even LPG. Cost per kwh of natural gas is approx 6.6 cent per kwh. Oil is about 9.5 cent per kwh as is LPG. These are delivered costs so it included levies, vat, delivery, tank rentals, etc.
A gas boiler is better in this situation because it can modulate. If your total demand is say 25kw, when all zones are cold & calling, the gas boiler can give 25kw as will the oil boiler give 25kw. But as the system becomes hot or zones close down, the demand may only be say 12kw. An oil boiler will always be on top of the heat delivering 25kw as it fires, thus short cycling. The system only taking 12kw but getting 25kw worth of fuel. Wasteful. The gas boiler can turn the flame down to only deliver 12kw as it monitors the return temperature & delivers the exact kw required. The boiler stays on for longer, less stress on the boiler but on low heat, therefore the demand curve is much more consistent rather than like a yo yo.
If the system is not zoned and heating everything all at once, then the will probably perform quite equally in the overall scheme of things.

just looked at the seai site gives the cent per kw of different fuels lpg gas is 13.25c per kw delivered kero is 9.21cent delivered both same price per liter @ 94 cent pl with kero having a 10.18 kw/unit and lpg having a 7.09kw/unit which makes lpg more expensive per kw have a look here
http://www.seai.ie/Publications/Statistics_Publications/Fuel_Cost_Comparison/Domestic_Fuel_Costs_Comparison_October_2012_pdf.pdf

shane0007

shagal wrote: »

just looked at the seai site gives the cent per kw of different fuels lpg gas is 13.25c per kw delivered kero is 9.21cent delivered both same price per liter @ 94 cent pl with kero having a 10.18 kw/unit and lpg having a 7.09kw/unit which makes lpg more expensive per kw have a look here
http://www.seai.ie/Publications/Statistics_Publications/Fuel_Cost_Comparison/Domestic_Fuel_Costs_Comparison_October_2012_pdf.pdf

That is based upon buying the LPG @ 94 cent per litre as per their document! I have yet to see any supplier selling their LPG in bulk to an individual, only to a communal bulk storage system.
Published delivered prices incl vat, etc. are circa 75 cent per litre. Realistic negotiated prices are between 65 & 70 cent per litre depending on size of house/usage. A client of mine recently got 63 cent per litre.
So that is between 25% & 33% cheaper than what they are claiming! Not very truthful, why, I have no idea!
That brings it to between 8.8 & 9.9 cent per litre for LPG. Then add in the savings of modulation.

shagal

shane0007 wrote: »

That is based upon buying the LPG @ 94 cent per litre as per their document! I have yet to see any supplier selling their LPG in bulk to an individual, only to a communal bulk storage system.
Published delivered prices incl vat, etc. are circa 75 cent per litre. Realistic negotiated prices are between 65 & 70 cent per litre depending on size of house/usage. A client of mine recently got 63 cent per litre.
So that is between 25% & 33% cheaper than what they are claiming! Not very truthful, why, I have no idea!
That brings it to between 8.8 & 9.9 cent per litre for LPG. Then add in the savings of modulation.

i have to apollagise
as of 2 mins ago contacted flogas for price of lpg .72cent pl including vat and carbon tax
still waiting on calor to give me a price,
calor rep got back to me firstly said gas pl was 70 something per liter then eventually said 71 to 72 cent pl

Seamus1964

What about wood pellet burner-heater?