ICBA PRESS EVENT AND BELT AWARDS

paul moran

Last Saturday the 19th of January 2013 the Irish Chinese Boxing Association held a press event to award National Sanshou Title Belts to our Champions from 2012/13.

Jennifer Durnin was awarded the Sanshou title for the female -70kg and Marc O Neill was awarded the Sanshou title for the male -85kg.

I've attached a few pics from the event and if you would like to visit the facebook page you can see the full details.


We have female -65kg and -70kg belts up for grabs this year (we will open a -60kg category if there is demand).

On the male side we have belts -60kg up to +90 with a belt every 5kg.

This year 2013 we have many vacant titles. WHY?????

The ICBA award qualifying points at each of our opens and ICBA recognised events and although we have a good circuit of fighters we have a qualification criteria which apply to enter the National Championships.

If your club is interested in joining the ICBA to compete in Sanshou (Chinese Kickboxing with throws) and Tuishou (Chinese Standup Wrestling) email us at icbasanshou@gmail.com for membershiop pack and rules.

Your fighters could be up to challenge for our titles belts towards the end of the year.

We are a totally democratic organisation and welcome the input of all member clubs who will be invited to all events including our competitons, squad training, technical official training and Annual General Meeting. Our current executive committee will stand for the years 2013 and 2014 and our members will have the final word on who will represent the Chinese Sports in Ireland on this committee going forward. Your club will also have the right to nominate anyone for the positions on the board which is governed by our constitution and bylaws.

Our website will be up and running shortly.

_oveless_

isnt that guy from tallafornia?

Niall Keane

_oveless_ wrote: »

isnt that guy from tallafornia?

Yep, Marc O'Neil - undefeated so far in -85kg coached by Wally Dillon. Has KO'd some quality opposition.

Actually thinking back to that thread a few months ago, outside of boxing, maybe he's Irelands most famous martial artist?

OLDMAN1

paul moran wrote: »

Tuishou (Chinese Standup Wrestling).

Tuishou is NOT Chinese stand up wrestling, it's Tai Chi pushing hands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushing_hands

Shuai Jiao is Chinese standing wrestling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuai_jiao

Tuishou: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r59gWTzKSw

Shuai Jiao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3e_9h3JHfI

paul moran

The Tui shou as you linked to in most Kung Fu styles are only training drills. Yes there are international rule sets out there which have these drills as there basis for competition but they are not the rules we at the ICBA subscribe to. In fact the rules we apply are very similar to Shuai Jiao but without the Jacket. Yes Tui Shou translates as Pushing Hands, but it's a very vague term for those not familiar with the sport as we are developing at the ICBA.

I'm sure once Niall puts up a clip or 2 of the last Tui Shou competition we held what people will see can only be described as Stand up Wrestling. Also Niall has detailed the ruleset in this thread in the recent past http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056759739

We could have gone down the Shuai Jiao root but the Jackets can be expensive and we thought we would leave its development to the Irish Shuai Jiao Union.

I hope that clears thing up for all thoses interested in the next ICBA events, both Sanshou and Tuishou.

Take care

Niall Keane

The Tui Shou rules are as for free moving step as set out by TCCFE - used in their international comps and Europeans and used in International opens such as British, Danish etc...

I should know being the official Irish rep of TCCFE, and having had well over 100 such matches since 1996. The format was introduced to the Kung Fu world in the West by my own Sifu Dan Docherty 25 years ago in his first British Open.

The term can refer to training drills EXACTLY like the term "Sanshou" does.
For example Yang style TCC has paired sanshou drills, which resemble a double form. This hardly reflects what Sanshou competition is?

This can lead to confusion, lost in translation and all, but be assured the ICBA is hosting a martial competition not performance art.

Ill have the last comps vids up soon enough. Which hopefully will clarify all.

One thing many werent expecting is the length of the bout. Its 2 minutes, as per rules previously posted, BUT stopped once scores and given and restarted - this leads to a bout lasting 4-5 minutes usually without rest period. The stand-up nature makes for high intensity.
There were alot of veteran grapplers there struggling with endurance.

Niall Keane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R2zjQBNV0E

Wudang Sanshou's Karl Kidd taking gold at ICBA Tui Shou event 2012!

Dont look like a drill to me?

http://youtu.be/2R2zjQBNV0E

smacl

Nice clip Niall and fair play to Karl for taking the gold. I've linked the clip to the photos and videos thread at the top of the forum, given the number of people who ask what the wrestling format we practice looks like.

For those who haven't tried it, tui shou in all its formats is great gas, and well worth giving a go if you get the chance. While pretty full on, there's minimal risk of injury, which makes it well suited to all abilities.

OLDMAN1

Niall Keane wrote: »

I should know being the official Irish rep of TCCFE

What does TCCFE stand for?

Niall Keane

http://www.tcfe.org/

It’s a representative body for ICMA (Internal Chinese Martial Arts) in Europe, e.g. Tai Chi Chuan, Ba Gua Zhang, Hsing Yi etc. I think the “what makes an internal style?” is a bit off topic for this thread.


But don’t worry comps like British Open, Scandinavian Open, ICBA are open to all styles, not just internal and not just Chinese, always have been.


Dan Docherty –Practical Tai Chi Chuan (1980 South East Asian Chinese Full Contact Open Weight Champ) introduced this format of competition to Europe in 1988 at his British Opens that also feature Kaoshu (Taiwanese Sanshou) I believe this is the longest running annual CMA comp in the UK if not Europe.

Since then many of his students have introduced similar comps throughout Europe, e.g. Torbin Riff of Denmark – Danish Opens and Scandinavian Opens since 1996.


The format has proved popular with many other kung fu and other styles participating and running their own similar events.

Although it would be nice to say ICBA invented such a cool format, we are merely following in the footsteps of others. Likewise we keep it open to all, e.g. in the clip above Karl’s opponent is a Shootboxer.


Historically such competitions developed around the late 70’s early 80’s in Hong Kong and Taiwan. The format is based on the ancient tradition of TCC “tui shou”, BaGua’s and Hsing Yi’s “Rou Shou”, though the names have changed and both the terms used by various schools of each style down the centuries.

Basically many kung fu styles, and not just internal would “try out” against each other in such a Stand-Up Wrestling format to save on injuries associated with Lei Tai Fighting. Lei Tai didn’t have the rules and protection equipment seen in modern Sanda, Sanshou or Kaoshu. And platforms could be 10ft tall. So I guess to explain to a modern western audience, Lei Tai was MMA, and Tui Shou MMA-lite. I’m hoping the introduction here will also encourage those wanting to compete but needing to go to work the next day without a black eye.


Shuai Jiao on the other hand was similar in rule set with jackets, though I believe you could always score by landing on top, or sacrifice throwing and didn’t have to keep on your feet. But Jacket Wrestling is a kung fu style in itself, the oldest CMA in fact. It has a long tradition as a serious sport and also as a performance art, where exaggerated crowd pleasing throws would be acted out in theatres or on the street to entertain the masses, similar to Pro Wrestling in the USA. Though I’m sure the Irish Shuai Jiao Union is promoting the former.


Again confusion can arise as “Shuai Jiao” means wrestling and for example in my own style and in many others forms one of four pillars of skill, the others being “die pu” (to strike and knock down or to knock down and strike), Chin Na (seize-hold i.e. locks and chokes) and (Dian Xue – spotting / boring i.e. pressure points). Chin Na for example forms an important part of the style Shuai Jiao.

BUT the difference and reason for “stand-up” only and having to remain on the feet, which requires greater balance and surety of technique was born in these other CMA styles where they also focused on weapon work.

Although ancient styles such a NeiJiaQuan called ShiSanShi (Thirteen Tactics) were famous as empty hand versus weapon, the majority of kung fu styles being martial arts and not sports focused on weapon skills, the afore mentioned Hsing Yi Chuan (Form Intent Fist), then called Shen YI Chuan (Spirit Intent Fist) (the change has been attributed to different dialects) is derived from spear fighting.

Obviously it is an extreme disadvantage to go to ground with a bladed weapon. Hence the difference. Throwing skill needed to translate into sword play, the immediacy of combat doesn’t allow one to pick which set of skills to adopt for differing situations, one solution must fit all!

Tui Shou Competitions seek to keep alive this skill / art, and nowadays it finds its uses as a good training ground for clinch skills. It should be noted that many traditional wrestling styles worldwide follow this model of having to remain standing to score, again this relates to weapon culture.


Certainly both styles of Chinese Wrestling Competition can benefit the practitioner, one does not preclude trying out the other, and an example would be my own coach Paul Mitchel.
He was 2002 European Champ in 3 types of Tui Shou (Fixed, Restricted and Moving) did so without conceding a point in 3 days of competition in Denmark. Again in 2005 he entered the 3 day IMAF World Shuai Jiao championships in Milan with 87 countries competing inc. China and Taiwan (the home teams) again he won gold without conceding a point, I believe that makes him the most successful Irish Shuai Jiao athlete ever, what’s remarkable is he only bought jacket s for our club about 1 year before, so basically relied on his Tui Shou skills with basic grip fighting knowledge.

Following from this he was made Irish Shuai Jiao Union representitive in Europe, but we didn’t do much with it, save creating a website, concentrating on pro Sanda at the time. Basically we let it slide. It’s good that since that day more have come to take over that aspect of CMA in Ireland, who will have more time to focus on developing Shuai Jiao specifically as it deserves.

Anyway hope this long history lesson answers peoples questions, and assures readers on what ICBA is focused on (Sanshou and Tui Shou) and hope to see more get involved with us and on the mats!

Jayo_M

Is there a list of Sanshou/Chinese Boxing clubs in Ireland anywhere?

Niall Keane

Jayo_M wrote: »

Is there a list of Sanshou/Chinese Boxing clubs in Ireland anywhere?

ICBA website will be up in next few weeks, we have a list of coaches and member clubs.
all will have competed in our regular events over the past number of years.

Email icbasanshou@gmail.com for further info or any queries you might have.

All the best.