Cyclists Reporting Dangerous Driving

ilikesleeves

Just wondering if anyone ever reported a driver for dangerous driving and if anything became of it.

I was just nearly ran off the road in Cork city by a bus, got the reg and am planning on ringing the guards just for the hell of it.

Wondering if anyone else had a situation like this and if so what became of it?

Chips Lovell

Once. I rang the Garda Traffic Watch line. Cops called on the motorist involved as a result.

ilikesleeves

Nice I'm gonna give that a try, this guy was dangerous and didn't seem to give a ****!

SomeFool

ilikesleeves wrote: »

Nice I'm gonna give that a try, this guy was dangerous and didn't seem to give a ****!

215 by any chance?

ilikesleeves

208, just on western road

ilikesleeves

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Once. I rang the Garda Traffic Watch line. Cops called on the motorist involved as a result.

Rang the traffic watch line and reported it, so it'll be interesting to see if anything becomes of it!

droidus

Do a search there's a good few anecdotes on here.

Andy-Pandy

You should ring the bus company as well, they may have video evidence, this video may be re-written every 24/48hrs or so, so best do it quick. I had a serious run in with a bus a few years ago on the Quays in Dublin (dangerous/ aggressive driving by the bus driver resulted in my bike and very nearly me ,going under the bus wheel), I used the bus tape for insurance reasons.

SomeFool

Had the 215 swerve into my path recently, very intimidating, sorry I didn't keep the tape and report the driver

DirkVoodoo

Cycled down the N3 last night, got over and undertaken quite close. Some dangerous manoeuvres.

Like drink driving, the only way to combat this is education and harsh penalties. People giving you the finger because they nearly minced you wouldn't be half as smug if they thought taking a chance with someone else's life might cost them their license for a few months.

enas

ilikesleeves wrote: »

208, just on western road

That's a very bad spot all right. Was it in the bus lane heading towards the city centre, or on the other direction?

Anyhow, if you felt it was that bad, by any means, do report it to the Guards, with precise hour and identification details. Don't contact Bus Éireann in that case. Guards have a duty to collect any video evidence, which in that case will mean footage from the bus. Also, expect Guards to show little enthusiasm in pursuing it, but stand by it (in my experience, they will try to offer you strange hours for an appointment to make a statement, repeatedly tell you that the Guard who's looking after you is not working now; will only start at 10pm; etc.). Just don't lose your patience.

If you feel it's not worth such a battle, do send an email to Bus Éireann (to the regional manager, in the Capwell depot -- you can find the address on their website). I have sent a letter letting them know what I thought of this driving. They replied with profuse apologies, swearing on their mums life that the driver has been given a bad telling-off. Not sure though how happier can that make you feel, but it's a sort of result. The fact is I never saw this driver again.

Seweryn

ilikesleeves wrote: »

Wondering if anyone else had a situation like this and if so what became of it?

I did once and you can see my last post with the final outcome.

ilikesleeves

enas wrote: »

That's a very bad spot all right. Was it in the bus lane heading towards the city centre, or on the other direction?

It was in the bus lane heading back towards UCC

Fair play for catching it on camera, at some stage I'll get a bike cam ( since I do mountain biking too ) but also for protection from this kinda crap.

I reported it to the guards, it was an incident similar to yours but I was so angry since it could've been worse if it was someone not handy on a bike. I don't expect anything to come of it but **** it!!

Dermot Illogical

enas wrote: »

Also, expect Guards to show little enthusiasm in pursuing it, but stand by it (in my experience, they will try to offer you strange hours for an appointment to make a statement, repeatedly tell you that the Guard who's looking after you is not working now; will only start at 10pm; etc.).

You know they work shifts, right?

enas

ilikesleeves wrote: »

It was in the bus lane heading back towards UCC

Fair play for catching it on camera, at some stage I'll get a bike cam ( since I do mountain biking too ) but also for protection from this kinda crap.

I reported it to the guards, it was an incident similar to yours but I was so angry since it could've been worse if it was someone not handy on a bike. I don't expect anything to come of it but **** it!!

What's annoying with that sort of footage is that it looks much less impressive than when it happened to you. That's the main reason I don't publicise those incidents, as many other people with those cameras do. However, when it was happening to me, and without already knowing what's going to happen, it's only at the last second that you think "feck it, he's gonna do it, that calls for an emergency brake", and then you only have a fraction of time to do that (I like that camera position, because you can see exactly when I start the emergency braking, judging from when I start applying the brake to when I stop, you can judge how sharp it was -- thankfully the slight uphill helped me).

My advice for that bus lane is to ride as centrally as possible -- if not even closer to the dividing line (it's pretty bad with potholes too). They're no reason why buses can move on the other lane to pass you. That being said, I've never had any bad experience with buses on that stretch, but sometimes taxis did give me a hard time.

On the other direction, it's much more tricky, since the lane is really narrow, and traffic can be busy on the oncoming direction, so you do feel like you're holding up traffic behind, while knowing perfectly well that there's no way they can pass you safely as long as there's oncoming traffic.

enas

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

You know they work shifts, right?

Delete my initial response -- I was completely out of it.

I just noticed I misread the part of my message you quoted. Stupid me...

runawaybishop

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

You know they work shifts, right?

Do the phones at the station work on shifts too?

Seweryn

runawaybishop wrote: »

Do the phones at the station work on shifts too?

Yes, however it really depends on the person taking your statement. My case was dragging on for ever until I got a chance to talk to a Garda-cyclist, who took the case and sorted it out almost immediately. It is a human being you deal with.

Dermot Illogical

runawaybishop wrote: »

Do the phones at the station work on shifts too?

No, but they aren't all that great at investigating cases or taking statements.
My point is that the garda investigating an incident will deal with it when they're working, and they work odd hours. Make sense now?

runawaybishop

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

No, but they aren't all that great at investigating cases or taking statements.
My point is that the garda investigating an incident will deal with it when they're working, and they work odd hours. Make sense now?

I was being too obtuse, sorry. I know they work shifts, but that doesn't mean they cant return a phonecall. The likelyhood is they don;t want to follow up and hope the issue will go away.

Dermot Illogical

runawaybishop wrote: »

I was being too obtuse, sorry. I know they work shifts, but that doesn't mean they cant return a phonecall. The likelyhood is they don;t want to follow up and hope the issue will go away.

That can happen I suppose. It depends on how busy someone is in a lot of cases, and how they prioritise tasks.
I was only addressing the reason for odd hours being offered for statement-taking.

Seweryn

runawaybishop wrote: »

The likelyhood is they don't want to follow up and hope the issue will go away.

That is usually the case, unfortunately :mad:.

enas

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

I was only addressing the reason for odd hours being offered for statement-taking.

So I'll answer properly now. I do realise that guards work on shifts, which include odd hours (thankfully!). That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to offer an appointment at an odd hour, when that doesn't suit the person. I can tell, both from personal experience and from the account of friends, that very often Guards will offer different alternatives (something like: "I can tomorrow at 10pm, but if that's too late for you and you're happy to wait 3 more days, then I will be available at 9am").

However, whenever I reported incidents of dangerous driving, I did get a general feeling of lack of enthusiasm (and I'm not criticising anyone, I can surely understand how they're understaffed and have other priorities -- there's always something more important happening). And offering an appointment at 10pm, coldly, giving an alternative only after my own insistence (saying that I have a young family to look after, that I can't come in those hours, but that I'm more than happy to wait for as many days as it takes until they're available at a more suitable time for me) certainly participates in the formation of that feeling. Also, the fact that this has systematically happened for every incident of bad driving, doesn't do much to stop me thinking it could possibly be partly deliberate.

Anyway, the fact is that they have to investigate your claim, and so they will eventually do it. I was just warning that one shouldn't lose patience after they notice a lack of enthusiasm, if they're genuinely trying to pursue it.

SomeFool

SomeFool wrote: »

Had the 215 swerve into my path recently, very intimidating, sorry I didn't keep the tape and report the driver

I've since got a proper memory card for the camera! Had to delete my commute every day!

enas wrote: »

this driving. .

Cycle that road most days, have had an issue there once or twice, I'd actually feel safer without the lane! How do you extract the clip to put it up on line?

enas

SomeFool wrote: »

Cycle that road most days, have had an issue there once or twice, I'd actually feel safer without the lane!

That stretch is awful all right. It's ridiculously narrow right after the junction. Most drivers are considerate though (i.e. they almost never overtake until after the bus top, which is when the lane regains a proper width -- this goes to show that most drivers are not bad and understand what a close pass is). In fact, other than that incident, I don't remember anything bad having ever happened there.

As I understand it, the city council knows that many things are wrong with the Douglas road lane (from Anglesea street to Douglas), and plan to make "improvements" that will be announced "later". Wait and see.

SomeFool wrote: »

How do you extract the clip to put it up on line?

iMovie is perfect for that task. There are probably tons of programmes on Windows that serve a similar task. I also use MPEG Streamclip to trim my long video file into small clips (for archival purposes -- you never need to keep 30 minutes worth of footage), which I then import in iMovie. That could be all you need if you're just trying to extract a clip.

jsoc

In answer to the original question Yes

saraemagee

I am livid this morning that an obnoxious taxi driver ignored his yield sign and still drove out on top of me. He clipped the back wheel of my bike which sent me out in front of oncoming traffic. I was just about able to stay up on the bike but my back wheel is not exactly circular anymore.
Anyone familiar with that road knows it is always busy. The taxi driver stopped me after the junction to tell me I should watch where I was going. Besides the fact that I was going in a straight line with a green light and that he had a Yield sign. I drive too so I am not an idiot. What incensed me more was that he said I was going too fast. How I could have been is beyond me. I have no gears on my bike so I cannot go very fast and of low and behold cars are traveling much faster than me. The fact of the matter is, I was on the bike lane going straight and he was supposed to stop at the junction. If a car was in the inside lane would he have pulled out then?

Because I was on a bike with no phone I couldnt take a photo of his license plate. It's becoming all too easy for taxi drivers to hit you and move on. It is amazing how many taxi drivers in Dublin will swear blind that cyclists are dangerous, but I leave for work on my bike as a luminous Christmas tree so I will be seen. I never brake red lights or cycle dangerously.

Luckily nothing worse happened but I shouldn't have to fear the roads when I am within my right to be there.

SomeFool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BC0MhWPivY

So do I go to the guards, the bus station or let it go? I was well shaken and angry after it so just looking for an honest opinion!

enas

SomeFool wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BC0MhWPivY

So do I go to the guards, the bus station or let it go? I was well shaken and angry after it so just looking for an honest opinion!

That was scary indeed! To be honest, with my experience of cycling there every day (and with the added benefit of hindsight) I could see that coming from a mile away! That doesn't excuse anything of course.

Whether you want to report it, and where, is completely up to you. I find the best way to report it to guards is by ringing Traffic Watch straight away (if you don't have the number, store it now in your phone). This has the added bonus of providing some sort of counselling, allowing you to feel a bit less shaken and continue your ride Now it's too late, you can always report it at Anglesea St Garda station. It depends obviously on the person you'll find, but in my experience, they're not the most helpful for that sort of incidents. But if you feel you want to report it, by all means do it. You have the clip (and one of the bus' CCTV cameras must have caught something too), so that makes it much stronger from their point of view than just allegations.

If you want to report it to Bus Éireann, send a letter directly to the Capwell depot (address here), specifying exact time and bus route to help identification. Be prepared though that the best response you can get is a letter saying they're sorry and that appropriate action has been taken.

If it was me, I would probably only send a letter to Bus Éireann, since there's someone to give a slap on the wrist to the driver, whereas if it was an individual, I would probably let the Guards provide that. Hope that helps.

By the way, why is the video shaking like that? It looks like you're filming the clip....

SomeFool

enas wrote: »

By the way, why is the video shaking like that? It looks like you're filming the clip....

YouTube offered to fix a slight tilt and it came out like that, original copy is grand! First time uploading anyting so it's a bit of a learning process!

enas

SomeFool wrote: »

YouTube offered to fix a slight tilt and it came out like that, original copy is grand! First time uploading anyting so it's a bit of a learning process!

Oh I see! That thing sucks in my experience too, I never use it.

Good luck with whatever action you choose to take, and keep us informed.

ilikesleeves

SomeFool wrote: »

So do I go to the guards, the bus station or let it go? I was well shaken and angry after it so just looking for an honest opinion!

This is exactly what happened me on western road to cause me to put this thread up. Bus driver just pulled out across me as if I wasn't there! Incredibly dangerous and someone with dodgy brakes or slow reflexes could get minced!

I rang traffic watch back when it happened but have heard nothing since, but since you've video evidence maybe it'd stand up to you a bit more. I'd say contact bus eireann too, put the video on facebook, show em what their drivers are like!!

hans aus dtschl

As both a cyclist and motorist there are things you do in that clip that I'd be weary of...for instance fast out of Morgan st onto South Mall (pedestrian collision), crossing lanes into that small gap on South Mall (car collision)...
That bus was ahead of you but you kept going. He shouldn't have crossed over fully (and I've been in this situation in cars too - he looks to be in the wrong) but you kept going and it's something to be weary of.

I think you're you're perfectly right to feel aggrieved and by all means report it to Bus Eireann (by the way the little black number on the back-right of the bus is what BE will get most purchase out of - not the number plate) and the Gardai.

But I think if you keep cycling like that maybe you'll end up injured. Being "in the right" really isn't worth it if you get maimed.

So yep, on the "reporting to Gardai, BE", but maybe it's worth cycling more defensively too?

enas

ilikesleeves wrote: »

I rang traffic watch back when it happened but have heard nothing since, but since you've video evidence maybe it'd stand up to you a bit more. I'd say contact bus eireann too, put the video on facebook, show em what their drivers are like!!

Just replying in relation to Traffic Watch. I had an incident one or two weeks ago, which I didn't mention here, since it was relatively minor (but upset me a lot at the time). I had no video footage for that one. However, the response I got from the guards was extremely positive, and as such, it's interesting to let you know, in order to counterbalance the generally negative stories.

The incident was that a guy (working for the City Council, but in an unmarked car) caused me to move out of the road (on Western road), as he was showing no intention of stopping (or even staying) behind me as I was stopping behind the last car of a queue of cars waiting at a red light (by Gaol walk). It was a bit distressing, especially since he was actually even accelerating as he was getting closer to the stopped cars, but obviously not the kind of things I would bother reporting, especially without any witness or evidence. However, at the next lights (he was waiting in the right turn lane towards Sundays well), as I caught up with him, the guy spontaneously pull over to the side of the road, to have a word with me, to tell me he did nothing wrong (at no stage did I confront him or what -- I think that's called guilt or something like that). It's at that stage that I got really pissed off and told him that if he really thinks his driving was fine, maybe I should call the guards so that they explain him more convincingly how he was wrong. And so I rang Traffic Watch, in front of him. That's for the background.

I got a call back less than an hour later, from a guard from Bridewell Garda station. She was asking me when I could come to give a statement. I said anytime from now, maybe during lunch break (which would be her lunch break too I imagine), she agreed, and off I went. Talk about a swift response! She was extremely positive in me reporting it. Her point was basically that even without evidence, it's still worth reporting those issues, because the guy will be called by the guards, he will have to give his own account of the story, and that's in most cases enough to scare him off and adjust his driving in the future, which at the end of the day was what I was looking for. She was even saying thank you for reporting, and asked me to call her again whenever I have any other similar issue. The other positive thing, which probably explains that whole frame of mind, was that she was very well aware of the sort of issues cyclists face, and the type of bad driving there is out there, because they have many guards patrolling on bicycles (it's a very central Garda station, so that probably explains it). I left very satisfied with this experience.

The bottom line is that how good a response you get from a report to Traffic Watch depends again on the guard who will receive the report. It seems Traffic Watch are fast at forwarding the reports to the relevant station. The downside of this system, as opposed to going in person to the Garda station, is that you don't have a tracking system (a guard's name to call back).

ilikesleeves

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

That bus was ahead of you but you kept going. He shouldn't have crossed over fully (and I've been in this situation in cars too - he looks to be in the wrong) but you kept going and it's something to be weary of.
?

I get what you're saying here but in fairness the bus signaled straight after that island and began to move over straight away without any consideration for what was in the lane next to him. It seems the guy didn't have much time to think of anything else but keep going.

But defensive is certainly something to think of, I generally hold the belief that everyone is out to kill you and act accordingly

enas

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

That bus was ahead of you but you kept going. He shouldn't have crossed over fully (and I've been in this situation in cars too - he looks to be in the wrong) but you kept going and it's something to be weary of.

I think you're misjudging the situation a bit. I see them both coming at the same time on the two adjacent lanes. When the bus is still next to the hatchings (1:39 on the video), they are next to each other and the bus isn't indicating. At that moment, there's nothing to indicate the bus will cross, and there's not reason not to keep going. Then, from the video, it only happens in three seconds (1:43). That's a very short time to realise what's happening, and to react accordingly (an emergency brake on a bicycle is much harder than in a car, and it tends not to be the instinctive reaction it is when driving).

It's all too easy to see what he did wrong with hindsight, but I absolutely can't see any way he could have prevented that, other than by anticipating what the bus would do.

enas

By the way, I only notice now that the van in front of you on Parnell bridge jumped the red light in the most blatant way! That's quite amazing (well, not really in fact).

SomeFool

enas wrote: »

By the way, I only notice now that the van in front of you on Parnell bridge jumped the red light in the most blatant way! That's quite amazing (well, not really in fact).

the irony being if I went with the van I'd have been clear of the bus! :pac:

hans aus dtschl

enas wrote: »

I think you're misjudging the situation a bit. I see them both coming at the same time on the two adjacent lanes. When the bus is still next to the hatchings (1:39 on the video), they are next to each other and the bus isn't indicating. At that moment, there's nothing to indicate the bus will cross, and there's not reason not to keep going. Then, from the video, it only happens in three seconds (1:43). That's a very short time to realise what's happening, and to react accordingly (an emergency brake on a bicycle is much harder than in a car, and it tends not to be the instinctive reaction it is when driving).

It's all too easy to see what he did wrong with hindsight, but I absolutely can't see any way he could have prevented that, other than by anticipating what the bus would do.

Two lanes come across from in front of city hall - typically one to turn right and one to turn left or go straight on. I agree fully that it's not the cyclist and video-taker's job to "avoid the bus", but to me there is absolutely everything to indicate the bus will cross. I've driven that route and has this happen to me many many times. I've had plenty people pull across me, then realise what they've done (and then do the "apology wave" or "hazard lights" thing).

Assuming the cyclist passes this point regularly, this will almost certainly happen again. Every time he passes this point it will be a possibility.

I am NOT saying they're in the wrong whatsoever, I'm saying it's ok that was a surprise to them once, but it should never be a surprise again.

I guess I cycle with the expectation that everyone else is out to kill me, too

hans aus dtschl

enas wrote: »

By the way, I only notice now that the van in front of you on Parnell bridge jumped the red light in the most blatant way! That's quite amazing (well, not really in fact).

I don't even think they slowed down.

enas

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

but to me there is absolutely everything to indicate the bus will cross.

I think you're biased by your experience of the place (it is a very bad design, it's a shame they missed the cycle track which almost no one uses, as it would solve the problem for cyclists at least). My first reaction too was that I could this this coming from a mile away. But honestly, from the video alone, forgetting anything you know about the place, there's absolutely no way you can reasonably expect this to happen, in my opinion.

Now, I'm also sure he won't get caught out again!

hans aus dtschl

Oh absolutely: if you don't know that spot, you won't see it coming at all. But it's a lethal junction. I think it's because the motorists on the quay are indicating "left" to go up Anglesea and don't think to indicate "right" to cross the lane. A yield sign for either side would go a long way I'd say.

RainyDay

SomeFool wrote: »

So do I go to the guards, the bus station or let it go? I was well shaken and angry after it so just looking for an honest opinion!

Just curious - where is your camera mounted? Looks like on your chest or shoulder or something?

SomeFool

Mounted on the strap of my backpack, have a new bike so must sort out a handlebar mount again.

enas

SomeFool wrote: »

Mounted on the strap of my backpack, have a new bike so must sort out a handlebar mount again.

Just another piece of advice I forgot about. In case you have a similar incident, try to remember to catch the driver's face. It makes it easier to identify him. It shouldn't be too hard with that mounting.

dvntie

My two cents worth
It appears to me that the bus driver didn't look for anything other than cars as he was coming round the corner then saw none and pulled straight across. I seriously doubt that he'd have seen a motorbike either given how quickly he pulled across.
Sure cycling defensively is a good idea but I wouldn't expect to have that bus move across as quickly as it did.
I've been cycling and driving thru that junction for years and I can't count how many times that's happened to me in car and on bike.
My conclusion report both the van and bus as they were both driving without due care and attention.

buffalo

enas wrote: »

The bottom line is that how good a response you get from a report to Traffic Watch depends again on the guard who will receive the report. It seems Traffic Watch are fast at forwarding the reports to the relevant station. The downside of this system, as opposed to going in person to the Garda station, is that you don't have a tracking system (a guard's name to call back).

Traffic Watch are great for taking the details, and they're easy to contact. Beyond that, I've only ever had one case actually reach any kind of conclusion. One was my own fault - apparently I didn't get the licence right, but of the others... one I never heard anything about again, and didn't involve me personally, so have not chased it up. One dangerous overtake led to no action being taken. And one, involving a near-miss that would've certainly done for me, following up by verbal threats, was lost between the cracks.

The Gardaí involved have varied from considerate and understanding, to completely nonchalant in the case of the verbal threat. In hindsight, traffic watch at the time advised me that I could report it as a verbal assault, and that's what I should've done.

I actually know where the guy lives, often tempted to leave a note, but I'm genuinely scared about approaching him after the encounter.

RainyDay

I had a better response through TrafficWatch then going direct to the local station. I got fed up with details being taken on a yellow post-it at the station and no further response. With TrafficWatch, I got the impression that somebody somewhere is tracking to see that cases recorded on the database are being followed up. Having said that, the extent of follow up varies dramatically. I did have one case where the Gardai told me the guy was convicted and fined €500. In hindsight, it was a bit strange that I wasn't called to give evidence, so maybe the Guard told me what I wanted to hear.

bedirect

what you do is, you report it personally to the Garda station, insist that you want to make a statement...which is the same as a report, (dont let a guard talk you out of making a statement...as for some this will mean less paper work for him/her) If your not satisfied look for a Sergeant, you will need the day, date, time ,place and car registration. You should also get a copy of your statement & expect some feedback within a month, a driver may not be prosecuted for dangerous driving, he may even be prosecuted for a lesser offence of driving without due care & attention. He may even receive a caution by a Garda Superintendent, but you should be told about this. A registered owner is obliged to say who was driving their car..they can be banned if they dont

enas

bedirect wrote: »

A registered owner is obliged to say who was driving their car..they can be banned if they dont

Are you sure about that? In my experience, it's far from being that clear. It seems that, in particular is it wasn't the registered owner driving, the owner can just plead ignorance and get away with it. This is why I always try to catch the driver's face with my camera (when I have it -- otherwise, try to remember as many identifying details as possible).

arnelv

drive defensively even thou you are on the right of way, bike vs bus.... no match ! You saw it coming and indicating yet you still proceed. Cycle safely, for me i will let it go.