Gaming PC for 700

finlaycm

Hey guys

Remember getting great suggestions for a PC 3 years ago and it's served me well!

however, now it's gone to **** and is even slowing down on TF2 and crashing all the time (which I think was because of a weak PSU). And I have loads of games waiting in my steam library that need a better PC to get above 25 FPS on medium so it's time to upgrade. I used to know a lot more about harware than I do now which is why I need help!
As for the rig:

I really want an SSD
No Idea if I should go with intel or AMD

Many thanks Conor.


I guess I should fill this out?

1. What is your budget? 700 euro (finally have a good job but I have lot of debt so no more please!)

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Media centre for house/ Gaming (SKyrim, TF2, Borderlands, witcher 2 come to mind)

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No I can just take the W8 code for the one I have right?

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? I could use the HDD (500GB) but would want to get another one anyway. I have a case but it looks so ****. do short answer NO!

5. Do you need a monitor? No have a 27inch

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? I have all of these

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Maybe, will I need extra cooling?

8. How can you pay? Anyway

9. When are you purchasing? either next week, or a month later

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? The nerd in me wants this all to myself.

marco_polo

Just to confirm that the monitor is 1080p? As to windows 8 how did you come by it, was it the system builder version or did you upgrade an OEM or retail version of Windows 7?

I don't think you will be able to put it on another PC if it was an upgraded OEM version of 7 but the other two scenarios should be no problem.

I'll throw in one of each to get the ball rolling, reusing the 500GB HDD we can get a decent size SSD within the budget.

Item|Price
BitFenix Merc Alpha|€32.61
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€45.92
ASRock 970 Extreme3, AM3+, ATX|€70.34
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-10667U CL9|€39.50
AMD FX-8320 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+|€155.37
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 13 CO|€26.57
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€14.79
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€97.64
HIS HD 7870 GDDR5 2048MB DVI/HDMI/2xMini DP|€207.89
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€709.62


Roughly same priced intel build, a better CPU of course but had to cut back on the GPU and SSD capacity slightly. Possibly would have a very slight preference for the first because of that but both would be very decent gaming rigs.

Item|Price
BitFenix Merc Alpha|€32.61
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€45.92
ASRock Z77 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€85.04
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-10667U CL9|€39.50
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€205.99
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 13 CO|€26.57
Crucial M4 64GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€63.57
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€14.79
MSI R7850 TwinFrozr 2GD5/OC, 2048MB DDR5, PCI-Express|€181.31
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€714.29

In both builds , if there is any bit of wiggle room in the budget I would maybe swap in a better cooler like the Mugen 3 in there ideally, which should get enable slightly higher overclocks, and put it in the Shinobi case. Not sure if you need a wireless card left that out for the moment.

finlaycm

Wow,
all looks good.
Windows is an upgrade of an upgrade of a retail version, I think! so I should be fine. Although I have no idea how i'd get it over to the SSD from the HDD

I can scavenge the Disk drive from my Old PC to save on 15 quid.

Is that PSU good enough to handle everything, my old one was a really generic 450W that I've been blaming for my blue screens when gaming but maybe it was the lack of cooling.

Think I want to go with the larger SSD so I can put a couple of games on it.

Is there much of a difference between the two GPUs I was always a nVidia fanboy so can't really tell but the clock speeds are a lot faster than what I have.

Don't need a wireless card.

I guess my main question is the CPU is the i5 that much betterthan the AMD yeah? what about upgradability of the two motherboards?

finlaycm

Oh and the monitor is 1080p

finlaycm

Actually as for the CPU
IF i swapped out a i5 for i3 and saved a 100 euro (and I could also loose the cooler, right?) I could keep the motherboard and upgrade later on in the year. What is the performance hit, prob big!

marco_polo

finlaycm wrote: »

Wow,
all looks good.
Windows is an upgrade of an upgrade of a retail version, I think! so I should be fine. Although I have no idea how i'd get it over to the SSD from the HDD

Be much easier to do a clean install if you have the disk, it a bit messier but if nneeds be you could shrink HDD the partition and clone onto the SSD, turn of hibernation and defrag.

I can scavenge the Disk drive from my Old PC to save on 15 quid.

Is that PSU good enough to handle everything, my old one was a really generic 450W that I've been blaming for my blue screens when gaming but maybe it was the lack of cooling.

It a decent PSU not generic so no worries there, GPUs are quite a bit more more power efficient nowadays fo it should be fine for any single card setup.

Think I want to go with the larger SSD so I can put a couple of games on it.

Is there much of a difference between the two GPUs I was always a nVidia fanboy so can't really tell but the clock speeds are a lot faster than what I have.

Guess the GTX 660 is about the best match from an Nvidia perspective, I just think think that the AMD ones offer better value at current pricing myself. Both the 7870 and HD7850 are great overclockers too. I have a HD 7850 myself and it is excellent there is not a massive gap in performance terms (probably in the order of 10%) but I find there are a couple of titles where the slight extra horsepower of the HD7870 would be nice to have. TLDR the HD7850 is a fine card but if you have a few extra euro the HD7870 is even better.

Don't need a wireless card.

I guess my main question is the CPU is the i5 that much betterthan the AMD yeah? what about upgradability of the two motherboards?

No question that the i5-3570K is the better CPU but you will rarely notice in most games TBH, at least for the foreseeable future. There is one more generation of AM3+ CPUs to come so you will have reasonable enough upgrade path in a few years.

The i5-3570K is pretty much the end of the 1155 line but on the other hand with bit of overclocking you shouldn't need to consider replacing it for at least 4+ years (Unless you want a shiny new upgrade anyway).

If the 700 is not a hard budgetary limit then buy all means pickup the i5

finlaycm wrote: »

Actually as for the CPU
IF i swapped out a i5 for i3 and saved a 100 euro (and I could also loose the cooler, right?) I could keep the motherboard and upgrade later on in the year. What is the performance hit, prob big!

That would work just fine too, another very viable option. The i3 would do fine in just about any current game and would make for a pretty well balanced gaming build when paired with a HD7870. You could leave out the cooler as well because it can't be overclocked and pick up one up when you upgrade to the i5.

Serephucus

The i3 now i5 later option will depend on how Haswell shapes up. By all accounts it's going to be very good. Roughly a 15% bump over Ivy on last check, and BLCK OCing is back in, so you won't have to shell out for an unlocked i5 as the only option.

If it does turn out to be a viable upgrade for people, you'll see a torrent of 3570Ks on Adverts within a week of the Haswell launch, probably selling for pretty cheap, as they'll be competing with one another, so if you play your cards right, you could end up with quite a steal.

marco_polo

Serephucus wrote: »

The i3 now i5 later option will depend on how Haswell shapes up. By all accounts it's going to be very good. Roughly a 15% bump over Ivy on last check, and BLCK OCing is back in, so you won't have to shell out for an unlocked i5 as the only option.

If it does turn out to be a viable upgrade for people, you'll see a torrent of 3570Ks on Adverts within a week of the Haswell launch, probably selling for pretty cheap, as they'll be competing with one another, so if you play your cards right, you could end up with quite a steal.

Hmm I'm getting ideas for my PC now

Serephucus

marco_polo wrote: »

I'm getting ideas for my PC now

Sorry, I have a nasty habit of doing that ... to everyone. (Including myself)

challengemaster

Serephucus wrote: »

Sorry, I have a nasty habit of doing that ... to everyone. (Including myself)

Damn right you do!

marco_polo

Serephucus wrote: »

Sorry, I have a nasty habit of doing that ... to everyone. (Including myself)

Perhaps they might come bundled with a few cheap z77 motherboards too

finlaycm

OK, might be a little confused but:

The current Ivy gen of i3/5/7 are the last CPUs to use the LGA1155 chipset. Haswell is the next gen on the horizon? Which means that If I want to upgrade i'll have to find an i5 from this gen. But.... people are going to want to upgrade so I might pick up a secondhand one easy. What are the good websites for this...gumtree?

However as i'm not a complete nut, if I get the current i5 there is no way i'll need an upgrade for years.

Thinking of going with i3 as it's prob a huge boost over my Phenom x4 2.6Ghz i got 3+ years ago?

Serephucus

As I mentioned, Adverts (Adverts.ie, linked with Boards, that's why you'll see an Adverts.ie link in people's profiles) is probably your best bet.

finlaycm

Hey guys having a look at these two processors and I can't really see much difference, apart from the integrated graphics, which shouldn't matter because I'll have a GPU?

i3-3225 119e
i3-3220 105e

marco_polo

finlaycm wrote: »

Hey guys having a look at these two processors and I can't really see much difference, apart from the integrated graphics, which shouldn't matter because I'll have a GPU?

i3-3225 119e
i3-3220 105e

You are 100% correct, no reason not to get the cheaper i3-3220 with a dedicated GPU, as the HD2500/4000 is the only difference.

finlaycm

It also appears that the motherboard is out of stock
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=59322&agid=1601

So I might go with:
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/58054/ASRock+H77+Pro4+MVP%2C+Sockel+1155%2C+ATX.article

I fail fo see the difference between H77 and Z77 all the spec seam the same

marco_polo

finlaycm wrote: »

It also appears that the motherboard is out of stock
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=59322&agid=1601

So I might go with:
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/58054/ASRock+H77+Pro4+MVP%2C+Sockel+1155%2C+ATX.article

I fail fo see the difference between H77 and Z77 all the spec seam the same

The problem is you can't overclock with a H77 motherboard which is a key part of the upgrade plan.

If you need to order today I'd probably just get the Pro 4 is an extra €12.

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/57623/ASRock+Z77+Pro4%2C+Sockel+1155%2C+ATX.article

You could swap in the similarly priced MSI or Gigabyte if needs be, but the Pro3 is has slighty better overclocking reviews results behind it than either of these.

U_Fig

i'd go with the pro 4 or even the pro 4 mATX if you wanted to save money there's not much difference really maybe less PCIe slots

finlaycm

Sounds good, it's only 12e gonna be very close to 700 anyway (even with going with the i3) I'll put up the list if some knows how to put in that nice table rather than offensively posting links?

marco_polo

finlaycm wrote: »

Sounds good, it's only 12e gonna be very close to 700 anyway (even with going with the i3) I'll put up the list if some knows how to put in that nice table rather than offensively posting links?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056303834

U_Fig

marco_polo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056303834

using chrome and other broswers you may need to manually add

javascript:

after pasting into the address bar

finlaycm

BitFenix Shinobi Midi-Tower USB 3.0 black, ohne Netzteil 53.03
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W 53.69
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") 97.64
HIS HD 7870 GDDR5 2048MB DVI/HDMI/2xMini DP 207.89
Intel Core i3-3220 Box, LGA1155 105.05
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-10667U CL9 39.5
ASRock Z77 Pro4, Sockel 1155, ATX 97.64
Delivery 18.99
Total 673.43

Sorry just couldn't figure out the javascipt, n00b.
Pretty happy with this,might order it on Friday, get it delivered to work.

tuxy

finlaycm wrote: »

BitFenix Shinobi Midi-Tower USB 3.0 black, ohne Netzteil 53.03
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W 53.69
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") 97.64
HIS HD 7870 GDDR5 2048MB DVI/HDMI/2xMini DP 207.89
Intel Core i3-3220 Box, LGA1155 105.05
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-10667U CL9 39.5
ASRock Z77 Pro4, Sockel 1155, ATX 97.64
Delivery 18.99
Total 673.43

Sorry just couldn't figure out the javascipt, n00b.
Pretty happy with this,might order it on Friday, get it delivered to work.

The z77 pro is a waste of money matched with the i3. It's designed for overclocking which the i3 can not do.
Get this unless you plan to upgrade to a overclockable i5 sometime soon.
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/59304/ASRock+B75+Pro3-M%2C+Sockel+1155%2C+mATX.article

BloodBath

I wouldn't cheap out on the case or psu. I'd advise you to increase your budget to 900 or even 1000. The difference would be huge for little extra cost and a quality case and power supply will stay useful for all future builds.

An extra 300 to your budget could improve your gaming performance by as much as 50% if you are willing to overclock. This also means that it will last you longer before you need to upgrade again.

300 more on the budget would allow you to get a quality case and psu, an i5 3570k, a hyper 212 evo cooler and a 7950.

Overclock those and you will not need another upgrade for quite some time and when you do you won't have to buy a new psu or case. I'd say you would get at least 3 years from those parts and only then a graphics card upgrade would do you for another couple of years.

tuxy

If someone is getting an i3 it's probably because they have a tight budget. Most people don't have 900-1000 to spend.
He's not going cheap on the psu, it's very high quality for the price and should serve him well even if he upgrades at some stage. It's not a budget build, a very basic case will do the job as well as something expensive.
Personally I would get a i5 rather than the ssd and then maybe pick up an ssd at a later date.

BloodBath

Well yes that's good advice if you want to stick to €700. I'd drop the ssd for now and get an i5 3570k.

You can still go to 4.0 - 4.2ghz with the stock cooler. If you want to go higher, 4.6 - 4.8ghz then you will need to get a better cooler. The coolermaster hyper 212 evo is the best budget cooler by a long way at €29. It outperforms most of the larger €50-60 coolers.

finlaycm

TBH, i'm breaking the bank as it is!

I doubt I would go for overclocking, too hassle for what you get?
Also if I don't overclock, I shouldn't need a cooler other than what the CPU comes with.

My Geforce 250 GTS and AMD x4 2.4 GhZ has until recently served most of my gaming needs.

I obviously would like to get an i5, but doesn't everyone always say that an SSD is the single best upgrade you can make for speed and usability.

While i love gaming, the PC is the centre of my house (3 guys) used a lot for surfing, productivity, video. Wouldn't a SSD be great for opening those constantly used programs?

challengemaster

It's not going to make the slightest difference in those application loading times unless you're talking about things like Photoshop or other adobe suite programs. The big difference is in windows boot time, which by all means waiting 20-30 seconds won't kill anyone.

The i5 will be much more beneficial. You could always drop the SSD to a 64gb one. The difference in price from that and the B75 motherboard should cancel out the extra from the i5...

finlaycm

Good suggestion!

Gonna see what I get paid tomorrow (new job) see what I can shelf out.

Maybe I just fell into all the hype about SSDs, I can wait!

Just one last question what do I miss out on by getting a B77 instead of a Z77? Has to be a reason for the 40% odd increase in price!

finlaycm

Yeah for 662 I can get everything except the cooler and SSD. Seems like a good call.

Although this would mean using my old HDD as a boot drive in a new PC (again N00b, but prob not so such of a N00b to think I can do this without ****ing something up.)

Just boot from DVD and format over the old disk?

marco_polo

finlaycm wrote: »

Good suggestion!

Gonna see what I get paid tomorrow (new job) see what I can shelf out.

Maybe I just fell into all the hype about SSDs, I can wait!

Just one last question what do I miss out on by getting a B77 instead of a Z77? Has to be a reason for the 40% odd increase in price!

Like the H77 you can't overclock on a B75 motherboard either.

BloodBath

If you aren't overclocking then don't bother with the 3570k.

Save €35 and get the 3470

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1155/66369/Intel+Core+i5-3470+Box%2C+LGA1155.article

Get a 60gb or 120gb ssd then as well if the budget allows.

finlaycm

Thanks for the help again!

Considering I'm not going to overclock, what do you think of this build?
How much real world difference does O/C give you?

BitFenix Shinobi Midi-Tower USB 3.0 black, ohne Netzteil 53.03
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W 53.69
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") 97.64
HIS HD 7870 GDDR5 2048MB DVI/HDMI/2xMini DP 207.89
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws PC3-10667U CL9 39.5

Intel Core i5-3470 Box, LGA1155 170.47
ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP, Sockel 1155, ATX 75.59
Delivery 18.99

Total 723.16

Where's the bottleneck? (just as a matter of interest, trying to learn more about this whole hobby)

finlaycm

For the sake of 2e I should upgrade to 1600 RAM?

i.e. this

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/1600+Low+Voltage/48850/8GB-Kit+Corsair+Vengeance+Low+Profile+schwarz+PC3-12800U+CL9.article?basket.changed=1

instead of

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=44312&agid=1192

Or even this

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/1600+Low+Voltage/66620/8GB+G.Skill+RipJaws-X+PC3-12800U+CL10.article


God this **** is complicated, feel like i'm trying to learn off the map of Westeros again