New proposals for entry in college.

byhookorbycrook

Fairer, or biased towards those wealthy parents who can provide many more extra curricular outlets for their kids?

When I wanted to get into Mary I and or Thomond at the time, it was considered unfair to have a singing/music test, interview/swim test etc. and these were done away with for "fairness",what do other people think?

thefasteriwalk

What's the jist the proposals? I haven't heard any of the details.

Methody

I'd say it will favour young women even more.

Also, those who have the benefit of a competent proof-reader in their household. Someone who knows how to "tick the boxes".

The fact that the applicant is a name and not a number could cause discrimination and/or nepotism.

Anyway, given recent trends one thing is for sure: standards will be lower, not higher.

Ziphius

I assume this is referring to the new feasibility study mooted by Trinity College.
http://www.tcd.ie/Communications/news/pressreleases/pressRelease.php?headerID=2862&pressReleaseArchive=2013

I'm curious what people working in education feel about this. Starting with September 2013's intake in three "popular" courses including Law.

Press release wrote: »

The three ways which will be used to assess applicants in the feasibility study are as follows:

1. Leaving Certificate results.

2. Relative Performance Rank (RPR) – the performance of the applicant relative to other applicants from their school. This scale looks at the rank of the applicant compared to every other applicant from their school who has applied to any course, in any college, through the CAO.

3.Personal and Contextual Data – provided via supplementary materials submitted by the applicant.

For all its faults the Leaving Certificate and CAO system did keep applicants completely anonymous

Miss Lockhart

On initial reading, I do not like the the proposals.

I think the consideration of extra-curricular activities, whether it be music, drama etc or even work experience, will further favour those who are already advantaged in terms of access to grinds etc - not those who are currently disadvantaged.

I would also be very worried about the use of names on applications and would have no confidence in fairness of entry in this regard. This would particularly be the case for many "prestige" courses where professions tend to "run in the family".

The "relative ranking" system sounds interesting, but I'm not convinced. On the one hand there are many studies that show attending a DEIS school has a multiplier effect on disadvantage, so this could help to counteract that issue. On the other hand many disadvantaged students don't actually attend DEIS schools, yet contend with serious disadvantage from home.

There are already avenues such as HEAR for disadvantaged students to gain entry. I'm not sure how this would really improve on that situation.

byhookorbycrook

It will also put undue pressure on teachers to take on even more duties -unpaid- so that little Asbo can have it on their "CV"

rational

A terrible idea. I would never have got to college under this system. As already said it will advantage those who can access the cultural capital necessary while disadvantaging those from poorer backgrounds.

Im not sure if this is even a well intentioned idea.

RealJohn

rational wrote: »

Im not sure if this is even a well intentioned idea.

Superficially, it certainly doesn't appear to be. I don't know enough about it to comment further at this stage though.

Abhaile2013

It is all anonymous according to the TCD website. Random numbers (different to the CAO numbers) are assigned to the supplementary form. It isn't starting until next year. Students applying for entry this year will not be able to apply using the new system.

Hopefully the 'readers/evaluators' will be experienced enough to know if it is the parent or the student that has written the essay/personal statement required.

I'm not sure a 2 year pilot is long enough to know if it is going to work. Change has to happen and if it isn't going to be to the Leaving Certificate then I guess it will have to be to the admission process.

Heydeldel

Any suggestions for an alternative selection process?

I'm not really familiar with how other countries select college applicants. Any one come across a better system elsewhere?

Cavehill Red

SATs? I know some people have issues with standardised testing, but it seems a lot fairer than this proposed charter for nepotism.

Heydeldel

Anyone know why Trinity have decided to implement a change to admissions?

What's their rationale? Is it a bid to make entry fairer or what? A lot of trinner students I know came from fee - paying schools. Just curious as to whether they want to be seen to be the first to take the initiative or actually want to diversify?

Not sure how the relative performance rank would be helpful?

lol, 'Personal and Contextual Data'! This reads like something from 1984. This will all be examined by 'professional readers' - where can I apply for that job!

I see one of the criteria it will be examined under is public trust, so they know the nepotistic nature of Ireland.

Would be interesting to see what weight they give each of the three areas: will LC results still rank as most important or how will they balance out with regards the other two aspects. All still a bit unclear.

Ziphius

Heydeldel wrote: »

Anyone know why Trinity have decided to implement a change to admissions?

Well, at the moment it is just a feasibility study to see how (and if) this new system will work. The new system will only be used in a limited set of places in just three courses.

The objective is:

"... to see whether it might be possible to develop a new
national admissions system that can provide a better mechanism to identify and admit
applicants who are enthusiastic and passionate about learning, motivated and suitable for
their chosen courses, and with the academic ability and potential to be inspired by
everything that third-level has to offer. "

http://www.tcd.ie/undergraduate-studies/assets/documents/adms-feasibility-study-gen-info.pdf

spurious

The above reads a bit like TCD are fed up getting people applying for high point courses because they can/parents think they should/friends are doing them/it's Trinners, rather than because they have an interest in the area.

Learning off essays and sample answers doesn't demonstrate any sort of academic ability and unfortunately, in many students' minds, that is what doing the Leaving is about today.

Mick! 1234

Will it not tend to lower academic standards in the long run if people can get into courses more easily if they have say, many sporting commitments?

I don't think access to grinds is a major issue though. If there is not much upstairs no amount of grinds will make you get 600 points.

The cao system is fair already - if you work hard you get what you deserve. No need for change.

byhookorbycrook

It's not about grinds always, sporting commitments are easier if you are boarding and not looking to be driven to training for example or indeed the money to pay for private lessons in the sport.If your school puts on a full scale musical and you get the lead role,which then counts as an advantage to getting into college, do you not think all teachers will be under pressure to make sure their school does one?