Trouble for Golf Club Bars May Lie Ahead

Kevinmarkham

From the Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sports-club-bars-feel-the-fallout-of-one-mans-crusade-3350358.html

As the article says, there are plenty of golf clubs out there who are leasing their bar licence to a 3rd party. It'll be interesting to see if it just 'goes away'.

thewobbler

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

From the Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sports-club-bars-feel-the-fallout-of-one-mans-crusade-3350358.html

As the article says, there are plenty of golf clubs out there who are leasing their bar licence to a 3rd party. It'll be interesting to see if it just 'goes away'.

What a horrible person. The kind of person who, should a horrible accident befall, would raise a smirk from a whole town.

goodgolfer64

the law is the law....tho rule are made to be broken...clubs are struggling these days so cant blame them being creative ... but didnt think he'd expect his snitching to end up in the indo!!!!
and then be entitled to expenses..hahaha....people unfortunately loose control of their actions and then try get their own back...he'll be hidding his head for some time....
he shudda been a garda!!!!!

Pappa Charlie

Fair play to him! he saw an issue on the course and he brought it to the attention of the committee, they dismissed it and he wrote to the GUI, they confirmed that he was indeed correct and they contacted the committee, then he is brought up on disaplinary issues over it by the committee, what a disgrace and act of arrogance. My limited knowledege of the case tells me that another matter before the district court alerted the law to the position of the licence. When you pay your annual fees you expect that your club is operating legally on all fronts be it registration with the GUI and especially the laws of the land, The man obviously felt hard done by and saw that this committee has issues with the licence and like any citizen he is entitled to object to the licence, he knew full welll that he would be in the papers when he went to open court on the matter, I dont know the ins and outs of the case but on the surface I support him, its the committee that should be ashamed and should resign. By the way I'm not a member of the club and I dont know anyone involved but I hate to see committees act like this and too often they do!!

GreeBo

He potentially was saving the club from a large fine, since its his club a large fine would directly impact him.

My own club retains the bar for itself, not the caterers.

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

He potentially was saving the club from a large fine, since its his club a large fine would directly impact him.

My own club retains the bar for itself, not the caterers.

It's no longer his club, nor was he a member at the time of reporting to Guards. Therein lies the story.

Almaviva

GreeBo wrote: »

He potentially was saving the club from a large fine, since its his club a large fine would directly impact him.

Simply doing his good deed for the day then. Top bloke.

Major Winner

You must be joking Greebo this ex member of Castlebar set out to get his own back on the club for suspending him and refusing his application for membership. I might add a number of other clubs in the County have also turned down his application requests !!.and others were glad to to the back of him!

GreeBo

Seems to me like they treated him like a dick, without making sure their own house was in order first.

If you are going to go up against one of these types of people, you need to do it all properly and above board.

GreeBo

Major Winner wrote: »

You must be joking Greebo this ex member of Castlebar set out to get his own back on the club for suspending him and refusing his application for membership. I might add a number of other clubs in the County have also turned down his application requests !!.and others were glad to to the back of him!

The didnt like him going to the GUI, even though he was right, so their petty response was to suspend him and make accusations against him.
He then resigned.
The local council got involved and the club again acted unprofessionally.
He then joined Ballaghadereen.
Subsequently he saw (as he was in the industry) that they were acting illegally and so brought it to the attention of the police.

You prefer to let people break the law then obviously?
Oh and you might want to disclose your involvement with this case, or perhaps you just happened to join boards.ie today...:rolleyes:

goodgolfer64

im

GreeBo wrote: »

Seems to me like they treated him like a dick, without making sure their own house was in order first.

If you are going to go up against one of these types of people, you need to do
it all properly and above board.

IMHO he seemed like the dick here!!! I have seen these power hungry members who throw the dolls outta the pram when things go against them.....leave the club and cause destruction to themselves and their name....sad really....

GreeBo

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

im
IMHO he seemed like the dick here!!! I have seen these power hungry members who throw the dolls outta the pram when things go against them.....leave the club and cause destruction to themselves and their name....sad really....

Power hungry?
They were breaking the law....make accusations against him, and threw their toys out of the pram when we went to the games governing body after they did nothing about his complaint.

Sure these people can be annoying, but a club has to act in a professional manner, some people on club committees are not experienced enough in these manners to be making these decisions.

goodgolfer64

GreeBo wrote: »

Power hungry?
They were breaking the law....make accusations against him, and threw their toys out of the pram when we went to the games governing body after they did nothing about his complaint.

Sure these people can be annoying, but a club has to act in a professional manner, some people on club committees are not experienced enough in these manners to be making these decisions.

unless your on the committee of this club....we dont know the exact ins and outs....

GreeBo

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

unless your on the committee of this club....we dont know the exact ins and outs....

its all in the article, if we are not going to discuss it based on the opening article then we cant really discuss it at all!

goodgolfer64

GreeBo wrote: »

its all in the article, if we are not going to discuss it based on the opening article then we cant really discuss it at all!

look at it logically....

Local sources said that the club and the traffic warden had clashed over a number of issues prior to the argument over course rules. Both Mr Cribbin and the club brought solicitors to the meeting.

1...hes a traffic warden,.,,il say no more
2....hes had solicitors involved previously.....maybe the WHOLE club is wrong....or maybe this little nettle is stinging everyone he can.....

i've disagreed with you before..

GreeBo

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

look at it logically....

Local sources said that the club and the traffic warden had clashed over a number of issues prior to the argument over course rules. Both Mr Cribbin and the club brought solicitors to the meeting.

1...hes a traffic warden,.,,il say no more
2....hes had solicitors involved previously.....maybe the WHOLE club is wrong....or maybe this little nettle is stinging everyone he can.....

Logic fail, pure emotional response.

Maybe the boys on the committee dont like to be told when they are wrong.

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

i've disagreed with you before..

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Subsequently he saw (as he was in the industry) that they were acting illegally and so brought it to the attention of the police.

You prefer to let people break the law then obviously?

So what do you say to the fact that this illegality was going on for 5 years while he was a member there without him reporting or having a problem with it?
I'm from Castlebar and I knew there was a lease agreement between the two parties in place long before I swung a driver. (Didn't, like many, think there was an issue with it)
It would be ludicrous to assume a club member didn't know, especially one with such eye for detail.

Com'on Greebo, you're posting like there's only one side to blame here, you're also going on info outside of the article whilst you are asking others to stick to the article.

PARlance

Neither side come out of it great at all, but I'd be on the side of the club.

In terms of this creating a problem for other clubs?
Is it common? (No need to name your clubs )

I'd imagine a creative and legal workaround will be found.

link_2007

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Neither side come out of it great at all, but I'd be on the side of the club.

In terms of this creating a problem for other clubs?
Is it common? (No need to name your clubs )

I'd imagine a creative and legal workaround will be found.

I know another club that do it.

What is the law there for? It seems a strange thing to try and prevent.

For Paws

Leasing the bar and/or the catering facilities is an extremely common practice, and although it (leasing the bar without re-applying for the Licence) is a technical breach of the Registration of Clubs Act (1904), it is not considered to be a serious breach. The golf club in this case remedied the situation by retaking 'control' of the Licence prior to the Court sitting.

District Justices will not abide their courts being used as a weapon in an ongoing 'feud' and likely this was the core reason why costs were refused.

The reaction of the club to their member's complaints is, regrettably, all too common. Unless the member is a senior / popular / locally prominent person or has the backing of a large number of such people, most club committees tend to dismiss out of hand such complaints, and will become annoyed if such complaints are brought to the notice of a governing body. Any complaint, properly presented, should be examined in a courteous, non-judgmental & unbiased manner.

If the complaint is deemed reasonable, then remedies should be employed in a similar manner.

On the face of it, this case reflects badly on both 'sides'.

Kristopherus

GreeBo wrote: »

Logic fail, pure emotional response.

Maybe the boys on the committee dont like to be told when they are wrong.

Greebo, you don't know the man. I do and I can say without fear of contradiction that he is the most disliked individual in the town.

TheGolfer01

Oh god another thread filled with Greenbo logic.
A blind man could see he did it purely for vindictive reasons.

GreeBo

Kristopherus wrote: »

Greebo, you don't know the man. I do and I can say without fear of contradiction that he is the most disliked individual in the town.

ah, so he is unliked...and yet you dont think that the club took this fact into account when responding to his concerns?

I dont like lots of people, that doesnt mean you get to shirk your responsibilities as a committee member. You cant just do things for people you like or because it benefits you; that would make you a politician.

link_2007

GreeBo wrote: »

ah, so he is unliked...and yet you dont think that the club took this fact into account when responding to his concerns?

I dont like lots of people, that doesnt mean you get to shirk your responsibilities as a committee member. You cant just do things for people you like or because it benefits you; that would make you a politician.

Well thanks Greebo, that made me laugh out loud in a very quiet office.

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

So what do you say to the fact that this illegality was going on for 5 years while he was a member there without him reporting or having a problem with it?
I'm from Castlebar and I knew there was a lease agreement between the two parties in place long before I swung a driver. (Didn't, like many, think there was an issue with it)
It would be ludicrous to assume a club member didn't know, especially one with such eye for detail.

Earlier your problem was that he reported it, now you want him to have reported it 5 years ago....which is it?

Sure, he probably did it because they pissed him off...that doesn't make it wrong; they were breaking the law.

Perhaps he thought the other party had their own licence and weren't trading on the club licence?

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Com'on Greebo, you're posting like there's only one side to blame here, you're also going on info outside of the article whilst you are asking others to stick to the article.

Not at all, I have acknowledged that he is probably one of "those" types of people, but the club has to deal with all its members, equally and fairly.

What info from outside the article am I going on??

mathepac

For Paws wrote: »

Leasing the bar and/or the catering facilities is an extremely common practice, and although it (leasing the bar without re-applying for the Licence) is a technical breach of the Registration of Clubs Act (1904), it is not considered to be a serious breach. ...

So using that reasoning, a merely technical breach of the law, because it is "an extremely common practice", should not be re-dressed? Following that logic any law that isn't enforced or policed should be removed from the statutes, like serving after hours, serving drunks, etc.

GreeBo

TheGolfer01 wrote: »

Oh god another thread filled with Greenbo logic.
A blind man could see he did it purely for vindictive reasons.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Very clever how you do that - wish I could - na, would never ignore someone. It is good to talk.

Russman

Having read the article I can't quite understand what the club were doing with the licence. Was it that they were allowing the bar to be hired out by someone for a function/night, or did they have in effect a franchisee situation whereby someone was paying the club x amount to run the bar/restaurant for themselves ? Or am I missing the detail entirely ?

It does sound like both sides are at fault to different degrees. Yer man does indeed sound like "one of those" types of people and the club didn't really deal with his issues properly (even if it was just to dismiss them, they should have appeared to be taking him seriously !), no doubt there was another "one of those" on committee who was too thick with him to be professional. But going to court on a technical matter out of vindictiveness is far worse IMO.

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

He potentially was saving the club from a large fine, since its his club a large fine would directly impact him.

I've posted 3 times in this thread, the first was in relation to your post above, where it you didn't seem to have read the article, as it clearly states that he was not a member at the time he brought it to the attention of the gardai.

From the article:
"Having parted company with the club, far from amicably, Mr Cribbin joined Ballaghadereen Golf Club and hostilities seemed to have died down.

However, earlier this year, Mr Cribbin noticed that the club was advertising the lease of its bar facilities. As a former publican, he knew this was in breach of the Club Licensing Act. He immediately brought it to the attention of the gardai, who investigated the matter and then lodged an objection to the bar licence renewal."

GreeBo wrote: »

Earlier your problem was that he reported it, now you want him to have reported it 5 years ago....which is it?

It is neither, I posted 2 other posts to the one referred to above.
Could you please show me where I said I had a problem with him reporting it?
I was not stating I had a problem with reporting it, I was asking you a question, which you failed to answer.
Here it is again, what do you say to the fact that this illegality was going on for 5 years while he was a member there without him reporting or having a problem with it?
Here's what the article/Judge had to say
"Mr Cribbin had applied for costs. However, Judge Devins said that because he had been a member of the club for five years he was "complicit" with the way it was run."

Kind of throws your argument that he was just doing "the right thing by the book" into the bin doesn't it.
He was complicit / choose to be involved with the way it was run for the 5 years that he was a member.
He was not awarded costs as the Judge deemed that he knew fine well what was going on during his time as a member.

GreeBo wrote: »

Sure, he probably did it because they pissed him off...that doesn't make it wrong; they were breaking the law.

True, agree with you there.

GreeBo wrote: »

What info from outside the article am I going on??

Please see below.

GreeBo wrote: »

Perhaps he thought the other party had their own licence and weren't trading on the club licence?

You asked someone to stick to the info in the article after they they said that only the people with the committee would really know whats going on, as per above and on other occasions, you have went off the info held within the article and offered your opinion on what was going on behind the scenes.
I don't have a problem with this or other people offering their opinion but you seem to want people to stick to the info contained in the article so it's a bit rich if you don't do so yourself.

So in summary and to recap the 2 questions
1. You claim that he was just doing the right thing when he seen the Ad appear, do you not feel the Judge is correct in saying he was complicit during his 5 years as a member?
2. Appreciate if you could show me where I said I had a problem with the reporting of it to the guards?

I've stated that both sides are to blame in this, the golfer seems to come across as a trouble maker and the club should have acted more professionally.
But on balance, I'd tend to sympathise with the club more so than the golfer.

TheGolfer01

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd do that too if I was an immature prebuscent lad, but then I'd have a skewed view of reality and be none the wiser for it, what do they say again?, ignorance is bliss and it's always blissfull in greebo land.

ShriekingSheet

While he might be correct to the letter of the law / golfing rules, the spirit in which he's raising the issues is petty revenge, not trying to do good. That, for me, outweighs the justice of his arguments. For Greebo, it's clear that no matter how rotten the sentiment is, right is right. They're two different points of view.

I just think Greebo's view opens the door to a whole host of nasty nonsense. What if an irked member saw his car tax or insurance was slightly out of date, and reported it to the Gardai?

He'd be breaking the law. Whould you say "fair enough" regarding the member using that to get back at him?

There's a number of stupid little antagonising shots that can be fired from one camp to the other, and the fact that these little complaints might be "right" by one rule book or other, does not make them, in my opinion, reasonable.

GreeBo

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

points of view.

I just think Greebo's view opens the door to a whole host of nasty nonsense. What if an irked member saw his car tax or insurance was slightly out of date, and reported it to the Gardai?

He'd be breaking the law. Whould you say "fair enough" regarding the member using that to get back at him?

There's a number of stupid little antagonising shots that can be fired from one camp to the other, and the fact that these little complaints might be "right" by one rule book or other, does not make them, in my opinion, reasonable.

The problem with differentiating between two things that are "wrong" and saying that one is only kinda wrong, etc is that different people have different views.
What if you knew a fellow member was beating his wife? Would you report that? Would you think someone else was wrong to report it?
Where do you draw the line?
I draw the line that if its wrong, then its wrong, while I might not report it, I cant have an issue with someone else reporting it.

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Here it is again, what do you say to the fact that this illegality was going on for 5 years while he was a member there without him reporting or having a problem with it?
Here's what the article/Judge had to say
"Mr Cribbin had applied for costs. However, Judge Devins said that because he had been a member of the club for five years he was "complicit" with the way it was run."

Kind of throws your argument that he was just doing "the right thing by the book" into the bin doesn't it.
He was complicit / choose to be involved with the way it was run for the 5 years that he was a member.
He was not awarded costs as the Judge deemed that he knew fine well what was going on during his time as a member.

Thats a legal technicality because he was a member during that time.
Its the same way you cannot sue your club for negligence as you cannot sue yourself. (You are a part of your club)

ajcurry123 wrote: »

You asked someone to stick to the info in the article after they they said that only the people with the committee would really know whats going on, as per above and on other occasions, you have went off the info held within the article and offered your opinion on what was going on behind the scenes.
I don't have a problem with this or other people offering their opinion but you seem to want people to stick to the info contained in the article so it's a bit rich if you don't do so yourself.

I said "perhaps".
Based on the article, I dont see he did anything wrong and I think the committee acted incorrectly. So I disagree that only the committee know what really happened. We know what they did from their actions.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

So in summary and to recap the 2 questions
1. You claim that he was just doing the right thing when he seen the Ad appear, do you not feel the Judge is correct in saying he was complicit during his 5 years as a member?

I said
"He potentially was saving the club from a large fine, since its his club a large fine would directly impact him."
not that he is "just doing the right thing".
Technically the judge is correct, but would you be comfortable being judged "complicit" in any and all actions that your committee/club makes?

I wouldnt, my committee can make decisions without my knowledge or permission.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

2. Appreciate if you could show me where I said I had a problem with the reporting of it to the guards?

"It's no longer his club, nor was he a member at the time of reporting to Guards. Therein lies the story."
"It would be ludicrous to assume a club member didn't know, especially one with such eye for detail."

I would take those quotes to mean that you disagree with him reporting it.
Also note that leasing the bar isnt the problem, using the Club licence is. According to the article he noticed the issue when he saw the club renewing their licence, even though they had leased the bar.

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I've stated that both sides are to blame in this, the golfer seems to come across as a trouble maker and the club should have acted more professionally.
But on balance, I'd tend to sympathise with the club more so than the golfer.

Again, Im not disagreeing that he is potentially an annoying fart, but you still have to follow procedures. They were breaking the law, he pointed it out, you cannot fault him for that IMO.

TheGolfer01

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

While he might be correct to the letter of the law / golfing rules, the spirit in which he's raising the issues is petty revenge, not trying to do good. That, for me, outweighs the justice of his arguments. For Greebo, it's clear that no matter how rotten the sentiment is, right is right. They're two different points of view.

I just think Greebo's view opens the door to a whole host of nasty nonsense. What if an irked member saw his car tax or insurance was slightly out of date, and reported it to the Gardai?

He'd be breaking the law. Whould you say "fair enough" regarding the member using that to get back at him?

There's a number of stupid little antagonising shots that can be fired from one camp to the other, and the fact that these little complaints might be "right" by one rule book or other, does not make them, in my opinion, reasonable.

+1 common sense must prevail at all times, but we sometimes forget that not everyone posses it.

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Thats a legal technicality because he was a member during that time.
Its the same way you cannot sue your club for negligence as you cannot sue yourself. (You are a part of your club)

Based on the article, I dont see he did anything wrong and I think the committee acted incorrectly. So I disagree that only the committee know what really happened. We know what they did from their actions.

Again, Im not disagreeing that he is potentially an annoying fart, but you still have to follow procedures. They were breaking the law, he pointed it out, you cannot fault him for that IMO.

Also note that leasing the bar isnt the problem, using the Club licence is. According to the article he noticed the issue when he saw the club renewing their licence, even though they had leased the bar.

I get the impression that he was a nuisance, and I consider anyone acting like an "annoying fart" to their club to be wrong.

He should have went to the club to make them aware of this issue whilst he was a member.
I don't buy into the fact that this only dawned on him after the fact.
Either does the judge.
The Judge has ruled he was aware of the illegal situation during his time as a member and choose to do nothing about it.

Here's the legal definition of "Complicit"
Accountable for a criminal offense committed by another due to previous knowledge of other's crime

"According to the article HE CLAIMS he noticed the issue when he saw the club renewing their licence, even though they had leased the bar."

The Judge, by deeming him complicit, is not buying into this.


You might appreciate this
If someone posts something on here that is against the rules, we are asked to report the comment to the mods as we become aware of it. We're told not to take action into our own hands. And we're also told that Mods words are final aren't they
Maybe the member could have benefited from a chat with your good self at the start of this conflict :eek::D

Edit: And the club could have done with your professionalism :0

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

You might appreciate this
If someone posts something on here that is against the rules, we are asked to report the comment to the mods as we become aware of it. We're told not to take action into our own hands. And we're also told that Mods words are final aren't they

Ahh but if the mods dont act you dont just ignore it, you bring it up to cmods/admins.
If we then got into a strop with you and punish you for doing this, who do you reckon is in the wrong; you or the mods?

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Maybe the member could have benefited from a chat with your good self at the start of this conflict :eek::D

Edit: And the club could have done with your professionalism :0

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Ahh but if the mods dont act you dont just ignore it, you bring it up to cmods/admins.
If we then got into a strop with you and punish you for doing this, who do you reckon is in the wrong; you or the mods?

Won't ask what a C Mod is!!!!

The Mods would explain to CMods that the poster had a track record of being a nuisance then....... Ah here, I'll agree to disagree.

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Won't ask what a C Mod is!!!!

The Mods would explain to CMods that the poster had a track record of being a nuisance then....... Ah here, I'll agree to disagree.

....but the mods still have to act appropriately.
If the complainer is right, then you have to act accordingly, however, if they are wrong and have a history of similar wrong complaints...then they get conno'd.

Thats my main point, the club still has to act appropriately, even if he is an ass.
Separately they need to have a word about his general behaviour.

WHIP IT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPIr46MLZag

goodgolfer64

some impressive QUOTING going on....can someone show me how ya do that ...serious

PARlance

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

some impressive QUOTING going on....can someone show me how ya do that ...serious

Off Topic/ if thats ok?

More hassle than its work....serious
If your having to multiquote then you're more than likely not having fun

But to help you out, i'll try to explain it as best I can.
If you want want to quote 3 posts,
Select multiquote (the tab between the Quote and Quick Reply options)
Select multiquote on the first (nothing will happen) then multiquote on the second (again nothing) but then press Quote on the third post.
All three posts will then appear in your reply box.

If you then want to seperate lines within a post out into individual quotes you have to do a bit of editing.
Each quote needs to start with the long quote bracket, the [/Quote=ajcurry123;826xxxxxx] one
You finish the line you want to quote by placing the [/QUOTE] after it

If splitting a post into several individual lines, you need to make sure the long quote bracket [/Quote=ajcurry123;826xxxxxx] starts each one and each line is finshed with the shorter [/QUOTE]

Sligored

Back on topic , i have from a reliable source,that this guy visited westport last year to assess their catering arrangements and also was in kinsale for the cups and shield finals. All the clubs in the west of ireland are fearful of this guy as while we know the rules , it is more economically viable to lease the bar/catering facilities.
The strict enforcement of the visitors book is another one of the tools of his crusade , i know its the rules but i have been to many clubs and dont think i have signed the visitors register in any!
He is just a bitter man and i think his original complaint came about a member he had previous conflict with. The member in question was playing on a saturday afternoon in a 2ball behind a very slow 4ball(i think he was part of the 4ball , but not 100%) and he skipped the 2 holes across the road in castlebar as the 4ball had lost 3/4 holes.
The club processed his card and while the gui connacht upheld the clubs decision , gui nationally disagreed and found against castlebar golf club.
He applied to join a few clubs in the area but the all refused him and he ended up in ballaghderreen.

ShriekingSheet

Sligored wrote: »

Back on topic , i have from a reliable source,that this guy visited westport last year to assess their catering arrangements and also was in kinsale for the cups and shield finals. All the clubs in the west of ireland are fearful of this guy as while we know the rules , it is more economically viable to lease the bar/catering facilities.
The strict enforcement of the visitors book is another one of the tools of his crusade , i know its the rules but i have been to many clubs and dont think i have signed the visitors register in any!
He is just a bitter man and i think his original complaint came about a member he had previous conflict with. The member in question was playing on a saturday afternoon in a 2ball behind a very slow 4ball(i think he was part of the 4ball , but not 100%) and he skipped the 2 holes across the road in castlebar as the 4ball had lost 3/4 holes.
The club processed his card and while the gui connacht upheld the clubs decision , gui nationally disagreed and found against castlebar golf club.
He applied to join a few clubs in the area but the all refused him and he ended up in ballaghderreen.

Right. A sad state of affairs.

charlieIRL

Lads, I removed the persons name from the last 2 posts, its available throught the original link if anyone wants it.

GreeBo

Sligored wrote: »

Back on topic , i have from a reliable source,that this guy visited westport last year to assess their catering arrangements and also was in kinsale for the cups and shield finals. All the clubs in the west of ireland are fearful of this guy as while we know the rules , it is more economically viable to lease the bar/catering facilities.
The strict enforcement of the visitors book is another one of the tools of his crusade , i know its the rules but i have been to many clubs and dont think i have signed the visitors register in any!
He is just a bitter man and i think his original complaint came about a member he had previous conflict with. The member in question was playing on a saturday afternoon in a 2ball behind a very slow 4ball(i think he was part of the 4ball , but not 100%) and he skipped the 2 holes across the road in castlebar as the 4ball had lost 3/4 holes.
The club processed his card and while the gui connacht upheld the clubs decision , gui nationally disagreed and found against castlebar golf club.
He applied to join a few clubs in the area but the all refused him and he ended up in ballaghderreen.

Personally, I wouldnt be making public, derogatory comments about someone who it appears doesnt mind going to court over what I would consider small matters....

Cairn

GreeBo wrote: »

Personally, I wouldnt be making public, derogatory comments about someone who it appears doesnt mind going to court over what I would consider small matters....

Uh oh, by quoting the original post (even without the name he's clearly identifiable) you have published them anew, giving a separate cause of action:eek:

goodgolfer64

GreeBo wrote: »

Personally, I wouldnt be making public, derogatory comments about someone who it appears doesnt mind going to court over what I would consider small matters....

aw here....leave it out!!!!

ssbob

Not trying to resurrect an argument here but only after reading this thread in full now and have some comments on the whole thing:

1. On Kevin's original post of whether or not this will just "go away": I reckon this is a one-off and that other clubs will not be pursued unless there are complaints made to Gardaí(They will have to make a complaint then). This should serve as a timely reminder to all clubs/members however to make sure their house is in order.
2. However "painful" the complainant may be, the club did act unprofessionally in the matter: First they found against his "legitimate" complaint, then the matter of his position arose and then the matter of meeting with the council arose.
3. The complainant was "Complicit" however in this matter, as a member of the club he would have known this leasing arrangement was going on as it would be raised every year at the clubs agm and would form part of the clubs accounts. This was as far as I can see a pretty self-indulgent crusade to get back at his former club.

It is a pity when events like this play out as it damages the reputation of golf both it's clubs and its members, the vast majority of golfers and clubs are honest, decent, law abiding people and for the most part are just trying to get enjoyment out of something they love.

tayto lover

Jesus yer man has a very appropriate name -- Mr X

Pappa Charlie

ssbob wrote: »

Not trying to resurrect an argument here but only after reading this thread in full now and have some comments on the whole thing:

1. On Kevin's original post of whether or not this will just "go away": I reckon this is a one-off and that other clubs will not be pursued unless there are complaints made to Gardaí(They will have to make a complaint then). This should serve as a timely reminder to all clubs/members however to make sure their house is in order.
2. However "painful" the complainant may be, the club did act unprofessionally in the matter: First they found against his "legitimate" complaint, then the matter of his position arose and then the matter of meeting with the council arose.
3. The complainant was "Complicit" however in this matter, as a member of the club he would have known this leasing arrangement was going on as it would be raised every year at the clubs agm and would form part of the clubs accounts. This was as far as I can see a pretty self-indulgent crusade to get back at his former club.

It is a pity when events like this play out as it damages the reputation of golf both it's clubs and its members, the vast majority of golfers and clubs are honest, decent, law abiding people and for the most part are just trying to get enjoyment out of something they love.

I dont think it will go away because the local licensing courts which are held in September each year and presided over by a local judge will be very much in tune with this case nationally. When a golf clubs licence comes up for renewal it will be scrutinised. I'm aware of clubs who have changed back to the old system because of this and new committees are reluctant to take such a chance. Its been highlighted now and any club that continues with the policy is very foolish, I'm sure there could even be revenue breaches as revenue issue tax clearence for licensed premises. Like i said earlier when you pay your sub you expect at the very least that the club is operating within the law and rules of the game! I also think theres often an element of snobbery in clubs and on some club committees towards some members and especially members who raise issues like this man did. Just becuase you dont like someone does not entitle you to ignore their complaint and disapline them for taking it to a point where they prove they were correct. I understand that the Castlebar clubs arrangement was a handy arrangement and they may have meant well or not fully understood the implications but they left themselves wide open. I just wonder has our Taoiseach (honoury member) been drinking in a sheebeen for the last number of years and in breach of the laws of the land! I doubt hes the first!