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  • 12-01-2013 8:26am
    #1
    bluemetwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 ✭


    We have a small business page on Facebook for the company where I work. Someone has made a very serious, but completely untrue allegation against us. What action should we take, if any ?


Comments

  • #2
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    You need to be more specific. What kind of business? What kind of allegation? Are or were they a customer? Have you engaged with them in any way?


  • #3
    blackeyedpeat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭blackeyedpeat


    It's hard to please all the people all of the time!
    Don't remove the post.
    The complaint has been made and now you have to be seen to deal with it in a very public manner. The are no different from an irate customer shouting in your business.
    Try and diffuse the situation!
    Thank them for their custom. Express your sorrow at you customers disappointment, offer solutions repair, replace or refund etc. Invite them to meet and resolve the situation. And get them off you page.
    Recent cases have shown what said on facebook can be viewed as libel/slander. So you don't want it thrown up in a legal case if the complaint is that serious. Equally if the complaint is so far fetched it could be viewed as libel!


  • #4
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    blackeyedpeat wrote: »
    It's hard to please all the people all of the time!
    Don't remove the post.
    The complaint has been made and now you have to be seen to deal with it in a very public manner. The are no different from an irate customer shouting in your business.
    Try and diffuse the situation!
    Thank them for their custom. Express your sorrow at you customers disappointment, offer solutions repair, replace or refund etc. Invite them to meet and resolve the situation. And get them off you page.
    Recent cases have shown what said on facebook can be viewed as libel/slander. So you don't want it thrown up in a legal case if the complaint is that serious. Equally if the complaint is so far fetched it could be viewed as libel!

    I would totally disagree with the above. If the post is so serious and untrue it is defamation. The company needs to get legal advice ASAP. I would remove the offending post.

    I'm so glad I lef Facebook ages ago its a nightmare.


  • #5
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    If the post is so serious and untrue it is defamation.

    How can you possibly state that with zero context?


  • #6
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    dahamsta wrote: »
    You need to be more specific. What kind of business? What kind of allegation? Are or were they a customer? Have you engaged with them in any way?

    Kind of business = irrelivant.

    Were they are a customer = irrelivant.

    Have you engaged with them? = Mostly irrelivant.
    dahamsta wrote: »
    How can you possibly state that with zero context?

    If they statement was untrue and could damage the reputation of the business, what context is needed? It's defamation.


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  • #7
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    dahamsta wrote: »
    How can you possibly state that with zero context?

    Did you actually read what I said "if serious and untrue" is the important bit.

    To be clear if someone says something serious = a statment that lowers you in the minds of right thinking people and its untrue then it's defamation.


  • #8
    jonsnow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    bluemetwo wrote: »
    We have a small business page on Facebook for the company where I work. Someone has made a very serious, but completely untrue allegation against us. What action should we take, if any ?

    If you are really serious about this contact a solicitor immediately.Get screen shot copies of the defamatory post and check how many people could view post at the time it was posted and how many of them are crucial to your business -suppliers, customers,local business groups etc..As already stated you can sue for defamation cases and in Defamation cases speed is of the essence i.e. you have to prove that you take the allegation really seriously by moving immediately.Get the sol to draft a letter claiming that you were defamed and set conditions about what you want them to do -want monetary compensation,public apology on terms that you draft, an assurance that they will never post a similar accusation in the future etc. and then serve it immediately on the poster and facebook.

    You will have to hire a server or personally serve it yourself on the poster (although that may not be the best idea) and have an affidavit sworn that it was served.Send a similar letter by regged post to facebook. They will ignore it but best to include them anyway.

    If the server cant track down the poster by traditional means there is now a judicial decision which will allow you to serve the letter via facebook. But you have to show you tried by traditional methods first.

    The result that you are looking for is key.Defamation cases can be very expensive if they are vigorously defended but if you just want the guy to back off then the letter could do it. On the other hand defamation laws in Ireland are the strongest in the democratic world so you do have a very strong position.

    Anyway best of luck.


  • #9
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    To be clear if someone says something serious = a statment that lowers you in the minds of right thinking people and its untrue then it's defamation.

    Your version of serious will be different to mine and the OPs, and they haven't given even the most basic of descriptions of what went on. It might not even be insulting, never mind defamatory.

    I have some experience of this, having been threatened on many an occasion over posts on a site I operate. Most of them, and I mean the vast majority, were people simply expressing an opinion: I think this guy sucks, I think this organisation is crap, etc. 100% unactionable, yet according to the complainants they're defamatory, libellous and of course even slanderous according to some utter thicks.

    That's why the OP needs to provide more detail of they want a proper answer here. Or yes, they could be completely previous and flush money down the toilet on a solicitor first, who could well say "it's not actionable, now about my fee..." Or worse, lead them up the garden path on same.

    Of course it /could/ be actionable and the OP may have great success with it. But unless they provide more data, the thread is an utterly pointless waste of 1s and 0s.


  • #10
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    If the OP isnt willing to pay for a consultation fee with a solicitor they can forget about taking a defamation action! High Court fees..... good luck with that!


  • #11
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    Just delete the post and block the user, simples. You can't take every little thing to heart on the internet or you may as well not use the internet or shut down the site. Maybe monitor your Facebook page a bit better. Have it logged in or your phone the whole time to get new updates.

    If it was a real account then PM the customer you will be taking it further if it happens again. If you take it to the guards they will only laugh at you. What will happen the person who posted the message? hundred euro fine will you will be left with thousands of euros worth of fees, not worth it! Also the gaurds will have to prove the IP address where the message came from, contact facebook to get it and do out a lot of forms to get it.


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  • #12
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    dahamsta wrote: »
    Your version of serious will be different to mine and the OPs, and they haven't given even the most basic of descriptions of what went on. It might not even be insulting, never mind defamatory.

    I have some experience of this, having been threatened on many an occasion over posts on a site I operate. Most of them, and I mean the vast majority, were people simply expressing an opinion: I think this guy sucks, I think this organisation is crap, etc. 100% unactionable, yet according to the complainants they're defamatory, libellous and of course even slanderous according to some utter thicks.

    That's why the OP needs to provide more detail of they want a proper answer here. Or yes, they could be completely previous and flush money down the toilet on a solicitor first, who could well say "it's not actionable, now about my fee..." Or worse, lead them up the garden path on same.

    Of course it /could/ be actionable and the OP may have great success with it. But unless they provide more data, the thread is an utterly pointless waste of 1s and 0s.


    Again where did I say this event was defamation, I said IF, that's an important little word, my or any other persons opinion matter nothing, its the OP's opinion that matters, which is why I said if he thinks its serious and untrue then to get legal advice, again an important step, as that lawyer can give independent advice. My post important bits in bold.

    "I would totally disagree with the above. If the post is so serious and untrue it is defamation. The company needs to get legal advice ASAP. I would remove the offending post.

    Even if the OP gave enough information to say it was or was not defamation, I nor anyone else cn advise him on that issue on this site.

    BTW since the defamation Act 2009 there is no slander or libel, also saying an organisation sucks may in fact depending on the circumstances be actionable. Again the OP should not give any more detail to get advice as to do so would be against the rules of this forum.


  • #13
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    bluemetwo wrote: »
    We have a small business page on Facebook for the company where I work. Someone has made a very serious, but completely untrue allegation against us. What action should we take, if any ?

    Not enough information.

    Need further details of what was stated. Be sure to remove all reference to yourself or the other party.


  • #14
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    Just to add to the previous post I left. For the gaurds to do all the forms and contact facebook, get the IP address, and then the gaurd will need to contact the persons internet service provider and prove that the user in question is connected to the IP address could take years. Nothing will happen the user in question and you will be down a lot of money. Just let it go. Like I said the gaurds will only laugh at you and if the persons post was not legitimate, they might get a fine but the legal bills will be unreal for you. You will also need to prove they were not legitmate and that they were not acting on behalf on someone else. Its pretty dodgy and not worth it.

    Irelands network in computer forensics is probably the worst in Europe. Even if it was a racist comment or bulleying nothing will be done in Ireland or they will hold off the investigation for 10 years! I've a degree in the subject, just leave it unless you want to bankrupt yourself!


  • #15
    Sempai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 124 ✭✭Sempai


    areyawell wrote: »
    Just to add to the previous post I left. For the gaurds to do all the forms and contact facebook, get the IP address, and then the gaurd will need to contact the persons internet service provider and prove that the user in question is connected to the IP address could take years. Nothing will happen the user in question and you will be down a lot of money. Just let it go. Like I said the gaurds will only laugh at you and if the persons post was not legitimate, they might get a fine but the legal bills will be unreal for you. You will also need to prove they were not legitmate and that they were not acting on behalf on someone else. Its pretty dodgy and not worth it.

    Irelands network in computer forensics is probably the worst in Europe. Even if it was a racist comment or bulleying nothing will be done in Ireland or they will hold off the investigation for 10 years! I've a degree in the subject, just leave it unless you want to bankrupt yourself!

    It certainly wouldn't take years to get that kind of information, a matter of weeks or months. But Gardai would not get involved in a defamation case as it is a civil matter.


  • #16
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    areyawell wrote: »
    Just to add to the previous post I left. For the gaurds to do all the forms and contact facebook, get the IP address, and then the gaurd will need to contact the persons internet service provider and prove that the user in question is connected to the IP address could take years. Nothing will happen the user in question and you will be down a lot of money. Just let it go. Like I said the gaurds will only laugh at you and if the persons post was not legitimate, they might get a fine but the legal bills will be unreal for you. You will also need to prove they were not legitmate and that they were not acting on behalf on someone else. Its pretty dodgy and not worth it.

    Irelands network in computer forensics is probably the worst in Europe. Even if it was a racist comment or bulleying nothing will be done in Ireland or they will hold off the investigation for 10 years! I've a degree in the subject, just leave it unless you want to bankrupt yourself!

    Did your degree cover the difference between a civil case for defamation and a criminal case that would involve the Gardai?


  • #17
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    areyawell wrote: »
    Just to add to the previous post I left. For the gaurds to do all the forms and contact facebook, get the IP address, and then the gaurd will need to contact the persons internet service provider and prove that the user in question is connected to the IP address could take years. Nothing will happen the user in question and you will be down a lot of money. Just let it go. Like I said the gaurds will only laugh at you and if the persons post was not legitimate, they might get a fine but the legal bills will be unreal for you. You will also need to prove they were not legitmate and that they were not acting on behalf on someone else. Its pretty dodgy and not worth it.

    Irelands network in computer forensics is probably the worst in Europe. Even if it was a racist comment or bulleying nothing will be done in Ireland or they will hold off the investigation for 10 years! I've a degree in the subject, just leave it unless you want to bankrupt yourself!

    The guards investigate crime. Why would they get involved in this? What crime do you say has been committed?


  • #18
    jonsnow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    areyawell wrote: »
    Just to add to the previous post I left. For the gaurds to do all the forms and contact facebook, get the IP address, and then the gaurd will need to contact the persons internet service provider and prove that the user in question is connected to the IP address could take years. Nothing will happen the user in question and you will be down a lot of money. Just let it go. Like I said the gaurds will only laugh at you and if the persons post was not legitimate, they might get a fine but the legal bills will be unreal for you. You will also need to prove they were not legitmate and that they were not acting on behalf on someone else. Its pretty dodgy and not worth it.

    Irelands network in computer forensics is probably the worst in Europe. Even if it was a racist comment or bulleying nothing will be done in Ireland or they will hold off the investigation for 10 years! I've a degree in the subject, just leave it unless you want to bankrupt yourself!

    Absolute nonsense.You hire a private investigator (usually an ex-guard) to serve the papers. They try and track down the poster and serve him.If they serve him great.If they dont then you,ve established that traditional methods have failed and you can serve the papers on the posters facebook account.

    If you went down to the local garda station about this you would be swiftly shown the door and rightly so.


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