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I Was a Paid Internet Shill..

  • 11-01-2013 8:23pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭


    Boards.ie is quite a big forum. Biggest in Ireland. Hmmm, I wonder... ;)

    I Was a Paid Internet Shill: How Shadowy Groups Manipulate Internet Opinion and Debate

    CLN Editor’s Note: The type of propaganda strategy described in the article below occurs across a wide range of topics and is employed by various corporate, political, and governmental groups to promote a variety of agendas. It is called astroturfing, and it is far more common than most would imagine.

    Our intent in posting this is not to spread paranoia or incite shill witch hunts, but merely to encourage readers to view what they read and engage with online with a more discerning eye.

    This confession is presented verbatim from its original thread to preserve its integrity. As such, you may notice some minor typographical errors.




    I am writing here to come out of the closet as a paid shill. For a little over six months, I was paid to spread disinformation and argue political points on the Internet. This site, ATS, was NOT one that I was assigned to post on, although other people in the same organization were paid to be here, and I assume they still walk among you. But more on this later.

    I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore. If this confession triggers some kind of retribution against me, so be it. Part of being a real man in this world is having real values that you stand up for, no matter what the consequences.

    My story begins in early 2011. I had been out of work for almost a year after losing my last job in tech support. Increasingly desperate and despondent, I jumped at the chance when a former co-worker called me up and said she had a possible lead for me. “It is an unusual job, and one that requires secrecy. But the pay is good. And I know you are a good writer, so its something you are suited for.” (Writing has always been a hobby for me).

    She gave me only a phone-number and an address, in one of the seedier parts of San Francisco, where I live. intrigued, I asked her for the company’s URL and some more info. She laughed. “They don’t have a website. Or even a name. You’ll see. Just tell them I referred you.” Yes, it sounded suspicious, but long-term joblessness breeds desperation, and desperation has a funny way of overlooking the suspicious when it comes to putting food on the table.

    The next day, I arrived at the address – the third floor in a crumbling building. The appearance of the place did not inspire confidence. After walking down a long, filthy linoleum-covered corridor lit by dimly-flickering halogen, I came to the entrance of the office itself: a crudely battered metal door with a sign that said “United Amalgamated Industries, Inc.”

    I later learned that this “company” changed its name almost monthly, always using bland names like that which gave no strong impression of what the company actually does. Not too hopeful, I went inside. The interior was equally shabby. There were a few long tables with folding chairs, at which about a dozen people were tapping away on old, beat-up computers. There were no decorations or ornaments of any type: not even the standard-issue office fica trees or plastic ferns. What a dump. Well, beggars can’t be choosers.

    The manager, a balding man in his late forties, rose from the only stand-alone desk in the room and came forward with an easy smile. “You must be Chris. Yvette [my ex-co-worker] told me you’d be coming.” [Not our real names]. “Welcome. Let me tell you a little about what we do.” No interview, nothing. I later learned they took people based solely on referral, and that the people making the referrals, like my ex-colleague Yvette, were trained to pick out candidates based on several factors including ability to keep one’s mouth shut, basic writing skills, and desperation for work.

    We sat down at his desk and he began by asking me a few questions about myself and my background, including my political views (which were basically non-existent). Then he began to explain the job. “We work on influencing people’s opinions here,” is how he described it. The company’s clients paid them to post on Internet message boards and popular chartrooms, as well as in gaming forums and social networks like Facebook and MySpace. Who were these clients? “Oh, various people,” he said vaguely. “Sometimes private companies, sometimes political groups.”

    Satisfied that my political views were not strong, he said I would be assigned to political work. “The best people for this type of job are people like you, without strong views,” he said with a laugh. “It might seem counterintuitive, but actually we’ve found that to be the case.” Well, OK. Fine. As long as it comes with a steady paycheck, I’d believe whatever they wanted me to believe, as the guy in Ghostbusters said.

    After discussing pay (which was much better than I’d hoped) and a few other details, he then went over the need for absolute privacy and secrecy. “You can’t tell anyone what we do here. Not your wife, not your dog.” (I have neither, as it happens.) “We’ll give you a cover story and even a phone number and a fake website you can use. You will have to tell people you are a consultant. Since your background is in tech support, that will be your cover job. Is this going to be a problem for you?” I assured him it would not. “Well, OK. Shall we get started?”

    “Right now?” I asked, a bit taken aback.

    “No time like the present!” he said with a hearty laugh.

    The rest of the day was taken up with training. Another staff member, a no-nonsense woman in her thirties, was to be my trainer, and training would only last two days. “You seem like a bright guy, you’ll get the hang of it pretty fast, I think,” she said. And indeed, the job was easier than I’d imagined. My task was simple: I would be assigned to four different websites, with the goal of entering certain discussions and promoting a certain view. I learned later that some of the personnel were assigned to internet message boards (like me), while others worked on Facebook or chatrooms. It seems these three types of media each have different strategy for shilling, and each shill concentrates on one of the three in particular.

    My task? “To support Israel and counter anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic posters.” Fine with me. I had no opinions one way or another about Israel, and who likes anti-Semites and Nazis? Not me, anyway. But I didn’t know too much about the topic. “That’s OK,” she said. “You’ll pick it up as you go along. For the most part, at first, you will be doing what we call “meme-patrol.” This is pretty easy. Later if you show promise, we’ll train you for more complex arguments, where more in-depth knowledge is necessary.”

    She handed me two binders with sheets enclosed in limp plastic. The first was labeled simply “Israel” in magic-marker on the cover, and it had two sections .The first section contained basic background info on the topic. I would have to read and memorize some of this, as time went on. It had internet links for further reading, essays and talking points, and excerpts from some history books. The second, and larger, section was called “Strat” (short for “strategy”) with long lists of “dialogue pairs.” These were specific responses to specific postings.

    If a poster wrote something close to “X,” we were supposed to respond with something close to “Y.” “You have to mix it up a bit, though,” said my trainer. “Otherwise it gets too obvious. Learn to use a thesaurus.” This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation down with sexual innuendo, links to pornography, or other such things. “Sometimes we have to fight dirty,” or trainer told us. “Our opponents don’t hesitate to, so we can’t either.”

    The second binder was smaller, and it contained information specific to the web sites I would be assigned to. The sites I would work were: Godlike Productions, Lunatic Outpost, CNN news, Yahoo News, and a handful of smaller sites that rotated depending on need. As stated, I was NOT assigned to work ATS (although others in my group were), which is part of the reason I am posting this here, rather than elsewhere. I wanted to post this on Godlike Productions at first, but they have banned me from even viewing that site for some reason (perhaps they are onto me?). But if somebody connected with this site can get the message to them, I think they should know about it, because that was the site I spent a good 70% of my time working on.

    The site-specific info in the second binder included a brief history each site, including recent flame-wars, as well as info on what to avoid on each site so as not to get banned. It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters. Although I didn’t work for ATS, I did see they had a lot of info on your so-called “WATS” posters here (the ones with gold borders around their edges). “Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.”

    Each popular poster was classified as “hostile,” “friendly,” or “indifferent” to my goal. We were supposed to cultivate friendship with the friendly posters as well as the mods (basically, by brownnosing and sucking up), and there were even notes on strategies for dealing with specific hostile posters. The info was pretty detailed, but not perfect in every case. “If you can convert one of the hostile posters from the enemy side to our side, you get a nice bonus. But this doesn’t happen too often, sadly. So mostly you’ll be attacking them and trying to smear them.”

    At first, like I said, my job was “meme-patrol.” This was pretty simple and repetitive; it involved countering memes and introducing new memes, and didn’t demand much in-depth knowledge of the subject. Mostly just repetitive posting based on the dialogue pairs in the “Strat” section of the first binder. A lot of my job was de-railing and spamming threads that didn’t go our way, or making accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Sometimes I had to simply lie and claim a poster said something or did something “in another thread” they really hadn’t said or done I felt bad about this…but in the end I felt worse about the possibility of losing the first job I’d been able to get since losing my “real” job.

    The funny thing was, although I started the job with no strong opinions or political views, after a few weeks of this I became very emotionally wedded to the pro-Israel ideas I was pushing. There must be some psychological factor at work…a good salesman learns to honestly love the products he’s selling, I guess. It wasn’t long before my responses became fiery and passionate, and I began to learn more about the topic on my own. “This is a good sign,” my trainer told me. “It means you are ready for the next step: complex debate.”

    The “complex debate” part of the job involved a fair amount of additional training, including memorizing more specific information about the specific posters (friendly and hostile) I’d be sparring with. Here, too, there were scripts and suggested lines of argument, but we were given more freedom. There were a lot of details to this more advanced stage of the job – everything from how to select the right avatar to how to use “demotivationals” (humorous images with black borders that one finds floating around the web). Even the proper use of images of cats was discussed. Sometimes we used faked or photo-shopped images or doctored news reports (something else that bothered me).

    I was also given the job of tying to find new recruits, people “like me” who had the personality type, ability to keep a secret, basic writing/thinking skills, and desperation necessary to sign on a shill. I was less successful at this part of the job, though, and I couldn’t find another in the time I was there.

    After a while of doing this, I started to feel bad. Not because of the views I was pushing (as I said, I was first apolitical, then pro-Israel), but because of the dishonesty involved. If my arguments were so correct, I wondered, why did we have to do this in the first place? Shouldn’t truth propagate itself naturally, rather than through, well…propaganda? And who was behind this whole operation, anyway? Who was signing my paychecks? The stress of lying to my parents and friends about being a “consultant” was also getting to me. Finally, I said enough was enough. I quit in September 2011. Since then I’ve been working a series of unglamorous temp office jobs for lower pay. But at least I’m not making my living lying and heckling people who come online to express their views and exercise freedom of speech.

    A few days ago I happened to be in the same neighborhood and on a whim thought I’d check out the old office. It turns out the operation is gone, having moved on. This, too, I understood, is part of their strategy: Don’t stay in the same place for too long, don’t keep the same name too long, move on after half a year or so. Keeping a low profile, finding new employees through word of mouth: All this is part of the shill way of life. But it is a deceptive way of life, and no matter how noble the goals (I remain pro-Israel, by the way), these sleazy means cannot be justified by the end.

    This is my confession. I haven’t made up my mind yet about whether I want to talk more about this, so if I don’t respond to this thread, don’t be angry. But I think you should know: Shills exist. They are real. They walk among you, and they pay special attention to your popular gold-bordered WATS posters. You should be aware of this. What you choose to do with this awareness is up to you.

    Yours,

    ExShill

    SOURCE;

    http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    This thread is going to be Waterloo in Internet World:D

    *Grabs Popcorn*


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭Fox_In_Socks


    Hi guys. I picked up a great pair of Levis today. I usually find it difficult to find 32 34 jeans, but Levis never let me down.

    Levis.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    macco66 wrote: »
    This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation

    A lot of my job was de-railing and spamming threads that didn’t go our way, or making accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Sometimes I had to simply lie/
    The account is likely fiction but the above does sound familiar to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    The account is likely fiction but the above does sound familiar to me.
    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    This thread is going to be Waterloo in Internet World:D

    *Grabs Popcorn*

    Ah heyor leave it ouh.


    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭echomadman


    All I can imagine is a forum full of these opposing shills shouting at each other and no real posters at all.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,643 ✭✭✭worded


    I wonder did they get a reference for their CV or were they a sh1t Shiller


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Hi guys. I picked up a great pair of Levis today. I usually find it difficult to find 32 34 jeans, but Levis never let me down.

    Levis.

    Iconic jeans invented by a great Jewish man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    There's plenty of shills. I "know" someone on their third Boards account, with about 20k posts, and "they've" come across plenty of posters they'd regard as blatant shills. Some may even be mods. wow, mind blowing. Not. Whenever I see a hugely detailed reply, with massive multi-quoting and a really clear agenda, I always go hmm. Normal people just couldn't be arsed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 291 ✭✭Sixtus


    And if this forum has taught us anyone that posting comments on a forum in order to influence anyones already made up mind seems like a complete waste of time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    @ BrownBomber

    Come on, do you actually believe I'm an internet shill?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    If any shill employers are monitoring this discussion, I am available to work for large sums of money.

    I have an ability to keep my mouth shut (unlike the guy in the OP) and basic writing skills.

    I am experienced in the proper use of images of cats and am eager to learn more complex skills, such as how to select the right avatar or how to use humorous images with black borders.

    Thanks,

    Levi.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    @ BrownBomber

    Come on, do you actually believe I'm an internet shill?

    Do I? Let me just look at my manual...
    how to use “demotivationals” (humorous images with black borders that one finds floating around the web).

    7153e5ca358c29677f614816f765c0b61341285216_full.jpg

    Sorry. It's my first day :o. Haven't quite got the hang of this yet.

    EDIT: I forgot to say that you hate Jews.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    Damn you Brown Bomber. That post has totally demotivated me. I am a spent force.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    the whatever about paid shills, which i'm beginning to believe might exist, has anyone seen the megaphone app from hasbra and the giyus muppets

    basicly it was an rss feed that directed people to websites critical of israel so they could skew polls or get into flamewars.

    jst watch, any of the threads which are critical of israel on boards usually get the same posters in quick succession of each other


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭macco66


    Tzar Chasm wrote: »
    the whatever about paid shills, which i'm beginning to believe might exist, has anyone seen the megaphone app from hasbra and the giyus muppets

    basicly it was an rss feed that directed people to websites critical of israel so they could skew polls or get into flamewars.

    jst watch, any of the threads which are critical of israel on boards usually get the same posters in quick succession of each other

    Yep. I remember the journal.ie threads and polls getting completely overrun by them during the Rachel Corrie incident.

    All the posters were being directed there from a central hub - probably the same feed you've mentioned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭Daithi 1


    Finally !! a freakin genuine conspiracy we can all agree on !! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    This thread is going to be Waterloo in Internet World:D

    *Grabs Popcorn*

    Aside from specialist lunatic hives like godlikeproductions, this has reaffirmed a very basic belief of mine.

    Nobody should ever read the comments section of anything. The bottom half of the internet is terrible.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 291 ✭✭Sixtus


    macco66 wrote: »
    Yep. I remember the journal.ie threads and polls getting completely overrun by them during the Rachel Corrie incident.

    All the posters were being directed there from a central hub - probably the same feed you've mentioned.

    The journal.ie was over in 2003, 7 years before the journal.ie.

    Indymedia.ie got hounded after the Carol Coleman George Bush Interview in 2004. This is despite Indymedia.ie not being y'know rte. It turns out some goon on freerepublic.com got confused, and started bombing indymedia demanding coleman be fired and that Ireland would be speaking German if it wasn't for the US.

    Suffice to say, you don't need a government agency to whip the internet into a ****storm.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    macco66 wrote: »
    Boards.ie is quite a big forum. Biggest in Ireland. Hmmm, I wonder... ;)

    I Was a Paid Internet Shill: How Shadowy Groups Manipulate Internet Opinion and Debate

    CLN Editor’s Note: The type of propaganda strategy described in the article below occurs across a wide range of topics and is employed by various corporate, political, and governmental groups to promote a variety of agendas. It is called astroturfing, and it is far more common than most would imagine.

    Our intent in posting this is not to spread paranoia or incite shill witch hunts, but merely to encourage readers to view what they read and engage with online with a more discerning eye.

    This confession is presented verbatim from its original thread to preserve its integrity. As such, you may notice some minor typographical errors.




    I am writing here to come out of the closet as a paid shill. For a little over six months, I was paid to spread disinformation and argue political points on the Internet. This site, ATS, was NOT one that I was assigned to post on, although other people in the same organization were paid to be here, and I assume they still walk among you. But more on this later.

    I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore. If this confession triggers some kind of retribution against me, so be it. Part of being a real man in this world is having real values that you stand up for, no matter what the consequences.

    My story begins in early 2011. I had been out of work for almost a year after losing my last job in tech support. Increasingly desperate and despondent, I jumped at the chance when a former co-worker called me up and said she had a possible lead for me. “It is an unusual job, and one that requires secrecy. But the pay is good. And I know you are a good writer, so its something you are suited for.” (Writing has always been a hobby for me).

    She gave me only a phone-number and an address, in one of the seedier parts of San Francisco, where I live. intrigued, I asked her for the company’s URL and some more info. She laughed. “They don’t have a website. Or even a name. You’ll see. Just tell them I referred you.” Yes, it sounded suspicious, but long-term joblessness breeds desperation, and desperation has a funny way of overlooking the suspicious when it comes to putting food on the table.

    The next day, I arrived at the address – the third floor in a crumbling building. The appearance of the place did not inspire confidence. After walking down a long, filthy linoleum-covered corridor lit by dimly-flickering halogen, I came to the entrance of the office itself: a crudely battered metal door with a sign that said “United Amalgamated Industries, Inc.”

    I later learned that this “company” changed its name almost monthly, always using bland names like that which gave no strong impression of what the company actually does. Not too hopeful, I went inside. The interior was equally shabby. There were a few long tables with folding chairs, at which about a dozen people were tapping away on old, beat-up computers. There were no decorations or ornaments of any type: not even the standard-issue office fica trees or plastic ferns. What a dump. Well, beggars can’t be choosers.

    The manager, a balding man in his late forties, rose from the only stand-alone desk in the room and came forward with an easy smile. “You must be Chris. Yvette [my ex-co-worker] told me you’d be coming.” [Not our real names]. “Welcome. Let me tell you a little about what we do.” No interview, nothing. I later learned they took people based solely on referral, and that the people making the referrals, like my ex-colleague Yvette, were trained to pick out candidates based on several factors including ability to keep one’s mouth shut, basic writing skills, and desperation for work.

    We sat down at his desk and he began by asking me a few questions about myself and my background, including my political views (which were basically non-existent). Then he began to explain the job. “We work on influencing people’s opinions here,” is how he described it. The company’s clients paid them to post on Internet message boards and popular chartrooms, as well as in gaming forums and social networks like Facebook and MySpace. Who were these clients? “Oh, various people,” he said vaguely. “Sometimes private companies, sometimes political groups.”

    Satisfied that my political views were not strong, he said I would be assigned to political work. “The best people for this type of job are people like you, without strong views,” he said with a laugh. “It might seem counterintuitive, but actually we’ve found that to be the case.” Well, OK. Fine. As long as it comes with a steady paycheck, I’d believe whatever they wanted me to believe, as the guy in Ghostbusters said.

    After discussing pay (which was much better than I’d hoped) and a few other details, he then went over the need for absolute privacy and secrecy. “You can’t tell anyone what we do here. Not your wife, not your dog.” (I have neither, as it happens.) “We’ll give you a cover story and even a phone number and a fake website you can use. You will have to tell people you are a consultant. Since your background is in tech support, that will be your cover job. Is this going to be a problem for you?” I assured him it would not. “Well, OK. Shall we get started?”

    “Right now?” I asked, a bit taken aback.

    “No time like the present!” he said with a hearty laugh.

    The rest of the day was taken up with training. Another staff member, a no-nonsense woman in her thirties, was to be my trainer, and training would only last two days. “You seem like a bright guy, you’ll get the hang of it pretty fast, I think,” she said. And indeed, the job was easier than I’d imagined. My task was simple: I would be assigned to four different websites, with the goal of entering certain discussions and promoting a certain view. I learned later that some of the personnel were assigned to internet message boards (like me), while others worked on Facebook or chatrooms. It seems these three types of media each have different strategy for shilling, and each shill concentrates on one of the three in particular.

    My task? “To support Israel and counter anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic posters.” Fine with me. I had no opinions one way or another about Israel, and who likes anti-Semites and Nazis? Not me, anyway. But I didn’t know too much about the topic. “That’s OK,” she said. “You’ll pick it up as you go along. For the most part, at first, you will be doing what we call “meme-patrol.” This is pretty easy. Later if you show promise, we’ll train you for more complex arguments, where more in-depth knowledge is necessary.”

    She handed me two binders with sheets enclosed in limp plastic. The first was labeled simply “Israel” in magic-marker on the cover, and it had two sections .The first section contained basic background info on the topic. I would have to read and memorize some of this, as time went on. It had internet links for further reading, essays and talking points, and excerpts from some history books. The second, and larger, section was called “Strat” (short for “strategy”) with long lists of “dialogue pairs.” These were specific responses to specific postings.

    If a poster wrote something close to “X,” we were supposed to respond with something close to “Y.” “You have to mix it up a bit, though,” said my trainer. “Otherwise it gets too obvious. Learn to use a thesaurus.” This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation down with sexual innuendo, links to pornography, or other such things. “Sometimes we have to fight dirty,” or trainer told us. “Our opponents don’t hesitate to, so we can’t either.”

    The second binder was smaller, and it contained information specific to the web sites I would be assigned to. The sites I would work were: Godlike Productions, Lunatic Outpost, CNN news, Yahoo News, and a handful of smaller sites that rotated depending on need. As stated, I was NOT assigned to work ATS (although others in my group were), which is part of the reason I am posting this here, rather than elsewhere. I wanted to post this on Godlike Productions at first, but they have banned me from even viewing that site for some reason (perhaps they are onto me?). But if somebody connected with this site can get the message to them, I think they should know about it, because that was the site I spent a good 70% of my time working on.

    The site-specific info in the second binder included a brief history each site, including recent flame-wars, as well as info on what to avoid on each site so as not to get banned. It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters. Although I didn’t work for ATS, I did see they had a lot of info on your so-called “WATS” posters here (the ones with gold borders around their edges). “Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.”

    Each popular poster was classified as “hostile,” “friendly,” or “indifferent” to my goal. We were supposed to cultivate friendship with the friendly posters as well as the mods (basically, by brownnosing and sucking up), and there were even notes on strategies for dealing with specific hostile posters. The info was pretty detailed, but not perfect in every case. “If you can convert one of the hostile posters from the enemy side to our side, you get a nice bonus. But this doesn’t happen too often, sadly. So mostly you’ll be attacking them and trying to smear them.”

    At first, like I said, my job was “meme-patrol.” This was pretty simple and repetitive; it involved countering memes and introducing new memes, and didn’t demand much in-depth knowledge of the subject. Mostly just repetitive posting based on the dialogue pairs in the “Strat” section of the first binder. A lot of my job was de-railing and spamming threads that didn’t go our way, or making accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Sometimes I had to simply lie and claim a poster said something or did something “in another thread” they really hadn’t said or done I felt bad about this…but in the end I felt worse about the possibility of losing the first job I’d been able to get since losing my “real” job.

    The funny thing was, although I started the job with no strong opinions or political views, after a few weeks of this I became very emotionally wedded to the pro-Israel ideas I was pushing. There must be some psychological factor at work…a good salesman learns to honestly love the products he’s selling, I guess. It wasn’t long before my responses became fiery and passionate, and I began to learn more about the topic on my own. “This is a good sign,” my trainer told me. “It means you are ready for the next step: complex debate.”

    The “complex debate” part of the job involved a fair amount of additional training, including memorizing more specific information about the specific posters (friendly and hostile) I’d be sparring with. Here, too, there were scripts and suggested lines of argument, but we were given more freedom. There were a lot of details to this more advanced stage of the job – everything from how to select the right avatar to how to use “demotivationals” (humorous images with black borders that one finds floating around the web). Even the proper use of images of cats was discussed. Sometimes we used faked or photo-shopped images or doctored news reports (something else that bothered me).

    I was also given the job of tying to find new recruits, people “like me” who had the personality type, ability to keep a secret, basic writing/thinking skills, and desperation necessary to sign on a shill. I was less successful at this part of the job, though, and I couldn’t find another in the time I was there.

    After a while of doing this, I started to feel bad. Not because of the views I was pushing (as I said, I was first apolitical, then pro-Israel), but because of the dishonesty involved. If my arguments were so correct, I wondered, why did we have to do this in the first place? Shouldn’t truth propagate itself naturally, rather than through, well…propaganda? And who was behind this whole operation, anyway? Who was signing my paychecks? The stress of lying to my parents and friends about being a “consultant” was also getting to me. Finally, I said enough was enough. I quit in September 2011. Since then I’ve been working a series of unglamorous temp office jobs for lower pay. But at least I’m not making my living lying and heckling people who come online to express their views and exercise freedom of speech.

    A few days ago I happened to be in the same neighborhood and on a whim thought I’d check out the old office. It turns out the operation is gone, having moved on. This, too, I understood, is part of their strategy: Don’t stay in the same place for too long, don’t keep the same name too long, move on after half a year or so. Keeping a low profile, finding new employees through word of mouth: All this is part of the shill way of life. But it is a deceptive way of life, and no matter how noble the goals (I remain pro-Israel, by the way), these sleazy means cannot be justified by the end.

    This is my confession. I haven’t made up my mind yet about whether I want to talk more about this, so if I don’t respond to this thread, don’t be angry. But I think you should know: Shills exist. They are real. They walk among you, and they pay special attention to your popular gold-bordered WATS posters. You should be aware of this. What you choose to do with this awareness is up to you.

    Yours,

    ExShill

    SOURCE;

    http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/


    Better get your ass into the Ecuadorian embassy. Even though the war on Iraq and Afghanistan is over....you're still a national threat. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Joshua J


    This isn't that hard to believe. The most avid and consistent posters on this forum are those who think CT's are completely ridiculous and have nothing but disdain for them and those that follow them. Why else would they do it to themselves?.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 duckNcover


    Joshua J wrote: »
    This isn't that hard to believe. The most avid and consistent posters on this forum are those who think CT's are completely ridiculous and have nothing but disdain for them and those that follow them. Why else would they do it to themselves?.

    I opened my boards account a few months back, but this is my first post. I have just sat back and read all the posts and got a flavor of the CT Forum, really interesting stuff but i had to post my agreement with the above qoute. Its the same few ppl always coming along to sh*t on the conversation after awhile you do start asking the question. Are they shills or so desperate to convince themselves that they're reality isnt insanely warped they need to belittle and make mockery of ppl that do think this world is messed up in a seriously sinister way. thats my two cents, peace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    duckNcover wrote: »
    I opened my boards account a few months back, but this is my first post. I have just sat back and read all the posts and got a flavor of the CT Forum, really interesting stuff but i had to post my agreement with the above qoute. Its the same few ppl always coming along to sh*t on the conversation after awhile you do start asking the question. Are they shills or so desperate to convince themselves that they're reality isnt insanely warped they need to belittle and make mockery of ppl that do think this world is messed up in a seriously sinister way. thats my two cents, peace.

    You need sceptics around here to pick holes in a theory. How else can you tell a genuine conspiracy from bullshít?

    The sceptics who come on here aren't paid shills. They are people who spot the flaws in a flimsy theory and people get upset when these flaws are exposed - it's as if people are more concerned with constructing a theory than finding out the truth.

    While it's been verified and witnessed that the Megaphone crowd do indeed come here to shill for Israel, to accuse sceptics of being shills is cheap and low.

    When someone presents a picture of the pope with photoshopped Satanic badges as evidence of a conspiracy, we need people to say "Hang on there, that was shopped. This is bull.". We don't want people going "Oh my God I knew it! This proves that the church works for Satan".

    People who disagree with a CT are not trolls or shills. They are people who want to separate the nonsense from the truth and this can only be done by poking holes in every theory to see how well they stand up to scrutiny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Be like Nutella


    Anyone got anything more solid on this?

    I'm very interested but a lot of the articles I've read so far are a bit wishy washy and suggestive and draw many conclusions... I'm hoping it's not real is what I'm saying...

    anyone got a documentary link or a real news piece link from a respected media outlet? or anywhere? (please don't gimme crap about every mainstream news outlet is crap in everything they do.. I hate CNN too but they do some good stuff from time to time, same with BBC, Al Jazera, even RT etc)

    I guess I'll keep googling the sh1t out of it... scary stuff..... if it's true it's mind blowing... I know a lot of people just 'knew' this was all going on forever without any evidence but I wouldn't assume it without evidence... it's kinda mental

    I've even heard the odd poster on boards.ie claim there's a bit of this going on on these forums... easy to say without evidence I suppose... this is gona make a lot of yee very paranoid over the next while until somebody shows me some evidence that it happens ....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Anyone got anything more solid on this?

    I'm very interested but a lot of the articles I've read so far are a bit wishy washy and suggestive and draw many conclusions... I'm hoping it's not real is what I'm saying...

    anyone got a documentary link or a real news piece link from a respected media outlet? or anywhere? (please don't gimme crap about every mainstream news outlet is crap in everything they do.. I hate CNN too but they do some good stuff from time to time, same with BBC, Al Jazera, even RT etc)

    I guess I'll keep googling the sh1t out of it... scary stuff..... if it's true it's mind blowing... I know a lot of people just 'knew' this was all going on forever without any evidence but I wouldn't assume it without evidence... it's kinda mental

    I've even heard the odd poster on boards.ie claim there's a bit of this going on on these forums... easy to say without evidence I suppose... this is gona make a lot of yee very paranoid over the next while until somebody shows me some evidence that it happens ....

    This kind of shilling has been going on for years. It's really nothing new. Only recently, the vietnamese government admitted to hiring a heap of them.

    Companies do it all the time as well. It's easy and cheap to do it. All you need to do is pretend to be a satisfied customer. It's like the 5-star reviews on amazon. It's easy enough not to get caught and when caught, the consequences are minor. You'll often see shills banned here

    The Israeli lobby do it too via Megaphone. In fact, you can see it happening here any time the Israeli occupation comes up - especially in AH. You'll always get people with single-digit post counts chiming in on the Israeli side. I'm not saying that they're all shills but some of them definitely are.

    This is one of those CTs that's really hard to argue with. There's mountains of evidence for it. There's obvious motive, the costs are low and the rewards can be high. It doesn't require changes to the laws of physics or aliens. There's no defying of logic involved and no need for sensational photoshopping. In fact, anyone can become a shill, paid or not, if they want to and we only need an example or two to prove that it happens.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Be like Nutella


    This kind of shilling has been going on for years. It's really nothing new. Only recently, the vietnamese government admitted to hiring a heap of them.

    Companies do it all the time as well. It's easy and cheap to do it. All you need to do is pretend to be a satisfied customer. It's like the 5-star reviews on amazon. It's easy enough not to get caught and when caught, the consequences are minor. You'll often see shills banned here

    The Israeli lobby do it too via Megaphone. In fact, you can see it happening here any time the Israeli occupation comes up - especially in AH. You'll always get people with single-digit post counts chiming in on the Israeli side. I'm not saying that they're all shills but some of them definitely are.

    This is one of those CTs that's really hard to argue with. There's mountains of evidence for it. There's obvious motive, the costs are low and the rewards can be high. It doesn't require changes to the laws of physics or aliens. There's no defying of logic involved and no need for sensational photoshopping. In fact, anyone can become a shill, paid or not, if they want to and we only need an example or two to prove that it happens.

    ok thanks but see this is the problem - you're lumping one thing in with the other.... sorry to disagree but you are.

    I am fully aware of false advertising and false reviews being paid for... hell 20 years ago I remember my cousin at 16 years old in San Diego was being paid to positively review PC games for Sierra Vista.. he used to get loads of money, for a 16 year old anyway.

    It's one thing paying for false reviews or posting as somebody who uses a product or recommends a product - hell I've seen it done in the martial arts forum for instance when people post something like 'where can you learn x,y,z self defense? and then another guy from that club posts the address and website - it's retardly simple and done all the time and that's what 'Mods' are for... but this ain't anything at all to do with traditional shilling or false reviewing or any of that - so ya can't bundle one in with the other because... and this is important.... traditional shilling or whatever phrase we're bandying about here is a proven and regulated upon dishonest marketing strategy in play for decades... 100% proven and covered under US and EU and Australian laws and regs - google it you'll see... but

    The US government hiring contractors to hire shillers to post all day on many forums with many untraceable identities on behalf of some interest or to spread to reject some meme or other is sooooooooooooo much more than traditional shilling and is NOT PROVEN AT ALL to exist within the US on behalf of the US government... as interesting as the guys letter 'seems' to be...

    On the other hand - the USAF DID get kinda busted getting companies to 'bid' for a contract to supply software which could create say 50 users for one actual user and then have that USAF Intelligence guy spread various memes or battle against various memes in the middle east in an attempt they say to curb the spread of extremism and also probably to collect Intel from such forums they would partake in and monitor (the last bit I can understand to a degree)... however again..... listen closely: they ain't the same thing!!!! at all.... one has nothing to do with the other... one is a supposed shilling program within the US aimed at US citizens on behalf of the government .....one is a long understood marketing dishonest strategy that we all live with on the internet coz it can't be stopped and the other is a sliver of evidence pointing towards an attempt by the USAF to do this stuff - in the middle east..... and to be fair there is enough evidence for me that the USAF DID INDEED TRY TO DO THIS AND MAY HAVE ACTUALLY DONE THIS... I've seen the bidding documents from 2 contractors attempting to supply the software

    here's one of em

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/personamanagementcontract.pdf

    but unless one of you guys or my continuing googling.. gives me more than conjecture and fairly loose 'join the dot' journalism (as I can see so far) then nothing here is proven or even exists... let alone fuking 'everywhere' and 'all the time' and even on boards.ie like I'm hearing being bandies about here...

    sometimes I think 'some' of you you CT guys (of which I am selectively one sometimes myself:) forget to actually look at the mind blowing nature of the supposed and accepted CT in question....

    IF the US government (whatever that means in this context is a mystery if you think about it how WOULD the current admin use gov funds and tools to try do this stuff?) was trying to sway massive numbers of people on internet forums in the manner 'supposed' to be happening.... and I'm not saying it's impossible to do hell I could change a lot of opinion with 250 guys in a call center for a year on a black budget of 40 mill with the right tech and IT support and secrecy no doubt I could. I've changed many opinions in my time on forums being honest - imagine what ya could do bullsh1ttin 9-5 with 50 handles on 15 of the biggest forums??)... anyway IF this massive conspiracy of US Gov shilling through contractors was true - do you not think if would make MAJOR HEADLINES.... a NYP Op Ed would droool over such a whistle blowing story and the world would go mental about it.... there's be hundreds of programs and documentaries and news pieces and John Stewart bits and so forth all over the place.

    All I'm sayin if ya follow me so far on this rant is that these things are NOT the same thing and there is NO PROOF AS FAR AS I CAN SEE FOR MASSIVE SHILLING BEING DONE BY THE US GOVERNMENT LET ALONE PRO-ISRAELI LOBBY - HERE OR ANYWHERE.... til I see some harder evidence than supposed whistle blower letters posted anonymously on fringe sites..

    so anybody got some stuff on this? or are we all happy enough to just accept this CT and move on in our fantasy worlds as so often happens here it seems... coz I am genuinely interested in this sh1t... and I hope it ain't real!!

    and as for

    "...There's mountains of evidence for it..."

    no there fuking is not... break it out so


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    I think you are more or less correct Be Like Nutella. I don't think there is anyway that there are call-centres or whatever staffed with a bunch of college drop-outs shilling for Israel etc who just hand blow-ins jobs as they walk through the door. With the pro-Israel stuff they don't need to pay anyone, there are enough brainwashed individuals who will do it for free. What they do is co-ordinate these people into a conditioned army of hasbarists who do what they are told and say what they are told.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 252 ✭✭SNORBEAST


    macco66 wrote: »
    Boards.ie is quite a big forum. Biggest in Ireland. Hmmm, I wonder... ;)

    I Was a Paid Internet Shill: How Shadowy Groups Manipulate Internet Opinion and Debate

    CLN Editor’s Note: The type of propaganda strategy described in the article below occurs across a wide range of topics and is employed by various corporate, political, and governmental groups to promote a variety of agendas. It is called astroturfing, and it is far more common than most would imagine.

    Our intent in posting this is not to spread paranoia or incite shill witch hunts, but merely to encourage readers to view what they read and engage with online with a more discerning eye.

    This confession is presented verbatim from its original thread to preserve its integrity. As such, you may notice some minor typographical errors.




    I am writing here to come out of the closet as a paid shill. For a little over six months, I was paid to spread disinformation and argue political points on the Internet. This site, ATS, was NOT one that I was assigned to post on, although other people in the same organization were paid to be here, and I assume they still walk among you. But more on this later.

    I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore. If this confession triggers some kind of retribution against me, so be it. Part of being a real man in this world is having real values that you stand up for, no matter what the consequences.

    My story begins in early 2011. I had been out of work for almost a year after losing my last job in tech support. Increasingly desperate and despondent, I jumped at the chance when a former co-worker called me up and said she had a possible lead for me. “It is an unusual job, and one that requires secrecy. But the pay is good. And I know you are a good writer, so its something you are suited for.” (Writing has always been a hobby for me).

    She gave me only a phone-number and an address, in one of the seedier parts of San Francisco, where I live. intrigued, I asked her for the company’s URL and some more info. She laughed. “They don’t have a website. Or even a name. You’ll see. Just tell them I referred you.” Yes, it sounded suspicious, but long-term joblessness breeds desperation, and desperation has a funny way of overlooking the suspicious when it comes to putting food on the table.

    The next day, I arrived at the address – the third floor in a crumbling building. The appearance of the place did not inspire confidence. After walking down a long, filthy linoleum-covered corridor lit by dimly-flickering halogen, I came to the entrance of the office itself: a crudely battered metal door with a sign that said “United Amalgamated Industries, Inc.”

    I later learned that this “company” changed its name almost monthly, always using bland names like that which gave no strong impression of what the company actually does. Not too hopeful, I went inside. The interior was equally shabby. There were a few long tables with folding chairs, at which about a dozen people were tapping away on old, beat-up computers. There were no decorations or ornaments of any type: not even the standard-issue office fica trees or plastic ferns. What a dump. Well, beggars can’t be choosers.

    The manager, a balding man in his late forties, rose from the only stand-alone desk in the room and came forward with an easy smile. “You must be Chris. Yvette [my ex-co-worker] told me you’d be coming.” [Not our real names]. “Welcome. Let me tell you a little about what we do.” No interview, nothing. I later learned they took people based solely on referral, and that the people making the referrals, like my ex-colleague Yvette, were trained to pick out candidates based on several factors including ability to keep one’s mouth shut, basic writing skills, and desperation for work.

    We sat down at his desk and he began by asking me a few questions about myself and my background, including my political views (which were basically non-existent). Then he began to explain the job. “We work on influencing people’s opinions here,” is how he described it. The company’s clients paid them to post on Internet message boards and popular chartrooms, as well as in gaming forums and social networks like Facebook and MySpace. Who were these clients? “Oh, various people,” he said vaguely. “Sometimes private companies, sometimes political groups.”

    Satisfied that my political views were not strong, he said I would be assigned to political work. “The best people for this type of job are people like you, without strong views,” he said with a laugh. “It might seem counterintuitive, but actually we’ve found that to be the case.” Well, OK. Fine. As long as it comes with a steady paycheck, I’d believe whatever they wanted me to believe, as the guy in Ghostbusters said.

    After discussing pay (which was much better than I’d hoped) and a few other details, he then went over the need for absolute privacy and secrecy. “You can’t tell anyone what we do here. Not your wife, not your dog.” (I have neither, as it happens.) “We’ll give you a cover story and even a phone number and a fake website you can use. You will have to tell people you are a consultant. Since your background is in tech support, that will be your cover job. Is this going to be a problem for you?” I assured him it would not. “Well, OK. Shall we get started?”

    “Right now?” I asked, a bit taken aback.

    “No time like the present!” he said with a hearty laugh.

    The rest of the day was taken up with training. Another staff member, a no-nonsense woman in her thirties, was to be my trainer, and training would only last two days. “You seem like a bright guy, you’ll get the hang of it pretty fast, I think,” she said. And indeed, the job was easier than I’d imagined. My task was simple: I would be assigned to four different websites, with the goal of entering certain discussions and promoting a certain view. I learned later that some of the personnel were assigned to internet message boards (like me), while others worked on Facebook or chatrooms. It seems these three types of media each have different strategy for shilling, and each shill concentrates on one of the three in particular.

    My task? “To support Israel and counter anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic posters.” Fine with me. I had no opinions one way or another about Israel, and who likes anti-Semites and Nazis? Not me, anyway. But I didn’t know too much about the topic. “That’s OK,” she said. “You’ll pick it up as you go along. For the most part, at first, you will be doing what we call “meme-patrol.” This is pretty easy. Later if you show promise, we’ll train you for more complex arguments, where more in-depth knowledge is necessary.”

    She handed me two binders with sheets enclosed in limp plastic. The first was labeled simply “Israel” in magic-marker on the cover, and it had two sections .The first section contained basic background info on the topic. I would have to read and memorize some of this, as time went on. It had internet links for further reading, essays and talking points, and excerpts from some history books. The second, and larger, section was called “Strat” (short for “strategy”) with long lists of “dialogue pairs.” These were specific responses to specific postings.

    If a poster wrote something close to “X,” we were supposed to respond with something close to “Y.” “You have to mix it up a bit, though,” said my trainer. “Otherwise it gets too obvious. Learn to use a thesaurus.” This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation down with sexual innuendo, links to pornography, or other such things. “Sometimes we have to fight dirty,” or trainer told us. “Our opponents don’t hesitate to, so we can’t either.”

    The second binder was smaller, and it contained information specific to the web sites I would be assigned to. The sites I would work were: Godlike Productions, Lunatic Outpost, CNN news, Yahoo News, and a handful of smaller sites that rotated depending on need. As stated, I was NOT assigned to work ATS (although others in my group were), which is part of the reason I am posting this here, rather than elsewhere. I wanted to post this on Godlike Productions at first, but they have banned me from even viewing that site for some reason (perhaps they are onto me?). But if somebody connected with this site can get the message to them, I think they should know about it, because that was the site I spent a good 70% of my time working on.

    The site-specific info in the second binder included a brief history each site, including recent flame-wars, as well as info on what to avoid on each site so as not to get banned. It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters. Although I didn’t work for ATS, I did see they had a lot of info on your so-called “WATS” posters here (the ones with gold borders around their edges). “Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.”

    Each popular poster was classified as “hostile,” “friendly,” or “indifferent” to my goal. We were supposed to cultivate friendship with the friendly posters as well as the mods (basically, by brownnosing and sucking up), and there were even notes on strategies for dealing with specific hostile posters. The info was pretty detailed, but not perfect in every case. “If you can convert one of the hostile posters from the enemy side to our side, you get a nice bonus. But this doesn’t happen too often, sadly. So mostly you’ll be attacking them and trying to smear them.”

    At first, like I said, my job was “meme-patrol.” This was pretty simple and repetitive; it involved countering memes and introducing new memes, and didn’t demand much in-depth knowledge of the subject. Mostly just repetitive posting based on the dialogue pairs in the “Strat” section of the first binder. A lot of my job was de-railing and spamming threads that didn’t go our way, or making accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Sometimes I had to simply lie and claim a poster said something or did something “in another thread” they really hadn’t said or done I felt bad about this…but in the end I felt worse about the possibility of losing the first job I’d been able to get since losing my “real” job.

    The funny thing was, although I started the job with no strong opinions or political views, after a few weeks of this I became very emotionally wedded to the pro-Israel ideas I was pushing. There must be some psychological factor at work…a good salesman learns to honestly love the products he’s selling, I guess. It wasn’t long before my responses became fiery and passionate, and I began to learn more about the topic on my own. “This is a good sign,” my trainer told me. “It means you are ready for the next step: complex debate.”

    The “complex debate” part of the job involved a fair amount of additional training, including memorizing more specific information about the specific posters (friendly and hostile) I’d be sparring with. Here, too, there were scripts and suggested lines of argument, but we were given more freedom. There were a lot of details to this more advanced stage of the job – everything from how to select the right avatar to how to use “demotivationals” (humorous images with black borders that one finds floating around the web). Even the proper use of images of cats was discussed. Sometimes we used faked or photo-shopped images or doctored news reports (something else that bothered me).

    I was also given the job of tying to find new recruits, people “like me” who had the personality type, ability to keep a secret, basic writing/thinking skills, and desperation necessary to sign on a shill. I was less successful at this part of the job, though, and I couldn’t find another in the time I was there.

    After a while of doing this, I started to feel bad. Not because of the views I was pushing (as I said, I was first apolitical, then pro-Israel), but because of the dishonesty involved. If my arguments were so correct, I wondered, why did we have to do this in the first place? Shouldn’t truth propagate itself naturally, rather than through, well…propaganda? And who was behind this whole operation, anyway? Who was signing my paychecks? The stress of lying to my parents and friends about being a “consultant” was also getting to me. Finally, I said enough was enough. I quit in September 2011. Since then I’ve been working a series of unglamorous temp office jobs for lower pay. But at least I’m not making my living lying and heckling people who come online to express their views and exercise freedom of speech.

    A few days ago I happened to be in the same neighborhood and on a whim thought I’d check out the old office. It turns out the operation is gone, having moved on. This, too, I understood, is part of their strategy: Don’t stay in the same place for too long, don’t keep the same name too long, move on after half a year or so. Keeping a low profile, finding new employees through word of mouth: All this is part of the shill way of life. But it is a deceptive way of life, and no matter how noble the goals (I remain pro-Israel, by the way), these sleazy means cannot be justified by the end.

    This is my confession. I haven’t made up my mind yet about whether I want to talk more about this, so if I don’t respond to this thread, don’t be angry. But I think you should know: Shills exist. They are real. They walk among you, and they pay special attention to your popular gold-bordered WATS posters. You should be aware of this. What you choose to do with this awareness is up to you.

    Yours,

    ExShill

    SOURCE;

    http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/

    Only read the first 3 lines.................too long


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Be like Nutella


    actually most forum debates I find are more productive and provide more clarification when people include the article etc... it's up to people to have the patience to read the pieces or they won't get the whole gist of whats going on in a particular thread and end up offering finger deep reactive comments which are neither informative or helpful... saying that... I can go on and on god knows... some people turn up to learn and inform and argue positions and be better for it in the end, others just want to fling their bit at ya and that's all.... this **** ain't youtube comments.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I think you are more or less correct Be Like Nutella. I don't think there is anyway that there are call-centres or whatever staffed with a bunch of college drop-outs shilling for Israel etc who just hand blow-ins jobs as they walk through the door. With the pro-Israel stuff they don't need to pay anyone, there are enough brainwashed individuals who will do it for free. What they do is co-ordinate these people into a conditioned army of hasbarists who do what they are told and say what they are told.

    Nearly all contentious issues in politics in particular will have their diehard posters on both sides, not just the Middle East issue, take Northern Ireland or the protest over the Household charge, Public Service pay, Welfare or Libertarianism.

    I could start a thread on the politics board or After Hours on any of those issues and I'd correctly guess at least 10 posters who'd contribute on each issue, some even sharing interests over a couple of those theads. Take an avid Sinn Fein supporter, could easily post on all those issues and I could predict what side they'd be on. Doesn't mean they are a shill, just a diehard supporter. Even a FG supporter, in or out of Government.

    I think political shilling does happen but not to the extent that I see the slur thrown around, sometimes it's just an obsessive poster, somebody up on their soapbox about a couple of issues close to their heart.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    K-9 wrote: »

    I think political shilling does happen but not to the extent that I see the slur thrown around, sometimes it's just an obsessive poster, somebody up on their soapbox about a couple of issues close to their heart.

    It's actually rampant on the internet. It seems to me some people like to give this impression that it isn't, when in reality this kind of manipulation goes on everywhere outside the internet and I don't see why people are taken by surprise that it happens on the internet as well. It's actually worse on the internet as the majority of people worldwide nowadays communicate via the web. Especially on forums like this or any site that has a large influx of people posting on their sites.

    It's the same with facebook and social networking sites also, I also believe many don't get "paid", some are just elites themselves or are just trying to continue their agenda and make sure they have control of the situations all around them. I would even say that more than half the internet shills are "unpaid".

    But then of course you will have people who will do anything for money so of course it's going to be the case that you will have "paid shills" on the internet.

    As much knowledge and freedom of information there is on the net. There is still very tight control over it's operations and who controls it. It didn't get the word "Inter-WEB for nothing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭Squeaky the Squirrel


    SNORBEAST wrote: »
    Only read the first 3 lines.................too long
    Thanks for quoting it all though!:rolleyes:


    I was reading about a Company in England (must be 2 years ago now though) that does stuff like this on a huge level, companys and governments go to them when they want to push their interests on people, this group plans out all the eventualities and how to deal with them to get the desired outcome.

    Didn't really have an interest in such things at the time but it was interesting enough for me to read it all, have been looking for it since this thread popped up but not having any luck.

    Either way, I'd have no trouble believing the story in OP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Aquarius34 wrote: »
    It's actually rampant on the internet. It seems to me some people like to give this impression that it isn't, when in reality this kind of manipulation goes on everywhere outside the internet and I don't see why people are taken by surprise that it happens on the internet as well. It's actually worse on the internet as the majority of people worldwide nowadays communicate via the web. Especially on forums like this or any site that has a large influx of people posting on their sites.

    It's the same with facebook and social networking sites also, I also believe many don't get "paid", some are just elites themselves or are just trying to continue their agenda and make sure they have control of the situations all around them. I would even say that more than half the internet shills are "unpaid".

    But then of course you will have people who will do anything for money so of course it's going to be the case that you will have "paid shills" on the internet.

    As much knowledge and freedom of information there is on the net. There is still very tight control over it's operations and who controls it. It didn't get the word "Inter-WEB for nothing.

    Okay, take an issue like abortion, I could name at least 20 posters who'd contribute if I started a thread on it, couple of extremists on either side. Does that mean they are shills for say a strict Catholic Church line or just followers of the church?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    K-9 wrote: »
    Okay, take an issue like abortion, I could name at least 20 posters who'd contribute if I started a thread on it, couple of extremists on either side. Does that mean they are shills for say a strict Catholic Church line or just followers of the church?

    Yes of course, people have their agendas, but you can spot a shill a mile away and there are shills all over the internet. Why are you diffusing it? (in a heard of sheep, there is always a wolf dressed in sheeps clothing)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    The topic of this thread reminds me of Ender's Game, where Peter and Valentine Wiggin create two strongly opposing characters on a Network in order to stir popular opinion in one direction or another.

    Suffice to say they effectively held sway over the World's Political system. So, shoot for the stars, Board.ie shills! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Aquarius34 wrote: »
    Yes of course, people have their agendas, but you can spot a shill a mile away and there are shills all over the internet. Why are you diffusing it? (in a heard of sheep, there is always a wolf dressed in sheeps clothing)

    Diffusing it? I'm not, I said before I think it goes on, particularly on the Israeli issue and I'd have my suspicions about Libertarian issues. I think Government and European Union bodies often read social media and take it seriously.

    From reading sites like this in Ireland on political issues, I don't think it's a big issue. Most will be followers of a particular ideology or party, and it isn't as if most will hide that fact, or if they do, it isn't hard to see what they do follow, as Brown Bomber says, they don't need to be paid, they really believe this stuff.

    I also see it used to insult people who disagree with somebody, in that way no different to other slurs I see used commonly to throw mud at an opponent in a debate, Islamaphobe, racist, liberal, shill, that type of thing.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭macco66


    Anyone got anything more solid on this?

    I'm very interested but a lot of the articles I've read so far are a bit wishy washy and suggestive and draw many conclusions... I'm hoping it's not real is what I'm saying...

    anyone got a documentary link or a real news piece link from a respected media outlet? or anywhere? (please don't gimme crap about every mainstream news outlet is crap in everything they do.. I hate CNN too but they do some good stuff from time to time, same with BBC, Al Jazera, even RT etc)

    I guess I'll keep googling the sh1t out of it... scary stuff..... if it's true it's mind blowing... I know a lot of people just 'knew' this was all going on forever without any evidence but I wouldn't assume it without evidence... it's kinda mental

    I've even heard the odd poster on boards.ie claim there's a bit of this going on on these forums... easy to say without evidence I suppose... this is gona make a lot of yee very paranoid over the next while until somebody shows me some evidence that it happens ....

    Maybe this might be a little more concrete for you?

    www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

    If this software is being reported on in The Guardian newspaper 2 years ago, you'd wonder what software isn't making the newspapers today..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,991 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I'm not sure what the point is here.

    Different organisations and groups have attempted to influence the wider public by varying methods for centuries. The medium is just changing.

    The saying "don't believe everything you read in the papers" didn't come from nowhere and could just as easily be applied to TV, Radio, Online.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    K-9 wrote: »
    Diffusing it? I'm not, I said before I think it goes on,

    That's the only part of the answer we need to acknowledge, realise and just be aware of. It most certainly goes on and it goes on quite a lot.

    From reading sites like this in Ireland on political issues, I don't think it's a big issue. Most will be followers of a particular ideology or party, and it isn't as if most will hide that fact, or if they do, it isn't hard to see what they do follow, as Brown Bomber says, they don't need to be paid, they really believe this stuff.

    Yes but it's not a matter of, if they "believe" it. Its a matter of manipulating other's to "believe" in their way of thinking or "believe" in what they are saying to be true.

    Which is what the shills job is meant to do. If the shill cannot get the group or target onto their whim. The idea is to disrupt, confuse, dismiss and create antagonization, so that the real truth or other side doesn't get through to everyone else. It's all about manipulation at work.

    I also see it used to insult people who disagree with somebody, in that way no different to other slurs I see used commonly to throw mud at an opponent in a debate, Islamaphobe, racist, liberal, shill, that type of thing.

    No, that is bull****.

    If people are calling someone a proper "shill", there is obviously a reason behind it. If you want to insult someone you will do it naturally. The only argument that goes in your favour is, if someone is actually been genuine and an actual "shill" targets the genuine person and flame them as a shill so no one will think they are the people actually making sense or speaking the truth.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    duckNcover wrote: »
    I opened my boards account a few months back, but this is my first post. I have just sat back and read all the posts and got a flavor of the CT Forum, really interesting stuff but i had to post my agreement with the above qoute. Its the same few ppl always coming along to sh*t on the conversation after awhile you do start asking the question. Are they shills or so desperate to convince themselves that they're reality isnt insanely warped they need to belittle and make mockery of ppl that do think this world is messed up in a seriously sinister way. thats my two cents, peace.
    Welcome to the forum. Probably best off just reading, saves you the grief. Feel free to chip in whenever you feel like it though :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Aquarius34 wrote: »
    That's the only part of the answer we need to acknowledge, realise and just be aware of. It most certainly goes on and it goes on quite a lot.

    It goes on, I don't think quite a lot, again it probably is just a guy who passionately believes his stuff, though some topics do raise my alarm bells.
    Yes but it's not a matter of, if they "believe" it. Its a matter of manipulating other's to "believe" in their way of thinking or "believe" in what they are saying to be true.

    Tbh, on most divisive threads on a site like this, you haven't a hope in hell of manipulating opinion! The vast majority of people have their minds made up, on both sides.
    Which is what the shills job is meant to do. If the shill cannot get the group or target onto their whim. The idea is to disrupt, confuse, dismiss and create antagonization, so that the real truth or other side doesn't get through to everyone else. It's all about manipulation at work.

    I do see that on the site, thing is, it often comes from groups that wouldn't generally be seen as groups who'd employ shills, pro-Palestinian or Irish Republican sympathisers.
    No, that is bull****.

    If people are calling someone a proper "shill", there is obviously a reason behind it. If you want to insult someone you will do it naturally. The only argument that goes in your favour is, if someone is actually been genuine and an actual "shill" targets the genuine person and flame them as a shill so no one will think they are the people actually making sense or speaking the truth.

    It'd surprise you how often people are convinced they are right about another posters opinion but when you look into it, are completely wrong.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Aquarius34 wrote: »


    No, that is bull****.

    If people are calling someone a proper "shill", there is obviously a reason behind it. If you want to insult someone you will do it naturally. The only argument that goes in your favour is, if someone is actually been genuine and an actual "shill" targets the genuine person and flame them as a shill so no one will think they are the people actually making sense or speaking the truth.
    Care to name names of user on boards you consider shills


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    K-9 wrote: »
    It goes on, I don't think quite a lot, again it probably is just a guy who passionately believes his stuff, though some topics do raise my alarm bells.

    It's rampant, let me tell you.
    Tbh, on most divisive threads on a site like this, you haven't a hope in hell of manipulating opinion! The vast majority of people have their minds made up, on both sides.

    Not when you have so much of humanity dumbed down and forced to submit to a system of enslavement. But that is changing and the shills now have to work harder to keep things the way it is, because people are now waking up and taking back ownership of their own minds. This is when the fun begins.

    I do see that on the site, thing is, it often comes from groups that wouldn't generally be seen as groups who'd employ shills, pro-Palestinian or Irsih Republican symapthisers.
    Nah, I'd go higher than all that crap. There are puppet stringers you're barely scratching the surface when you mention those groups.

    It'd would surprise you how often people are convinced they are right about another posters opinion but when you look into it, are completely wrong.

    When truth suffices, opinion is irrelevant.


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Don't. He's just trying to get you banned!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Aquarius34


    seannash wrote: »
    Care to name names of user on boards you consider shills

    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    seannash wrote: »
    Care to name names of user on boards you consider shills

    Friendly note, don't do that please. I don't mod this forum but that would be frowned on sitewide.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Aquarius34 wrote: »
    It's rampant, let me tell you.

    You see I don't think it is as rampant as you define it. Going back to my Catholic Church example, I could go into the religion forums and find "shills" for religion, go into atheism and find "shills" for it. Nope, they aren't shills, it's what they believe. I don't have much time for either camp, they just believe, same as a conspiracy theorist will have time for certain theories and deride others.
    Not when you have so much of humanity dumbed down and forced to submit to a system of enslavement. But that is changing and the shills now have to work harder to keep things the way it is, because people are now waking up and taking back ownership of their own minds. This is when the fun begins.

    Fine.

    Nah, I'd go higher than all that crap. There are puppet stringers you're barely scratching the surface when you mention those groups.

    Probably, doesn't mean they aren't unpaid shills and you do seem concerned about unpaid shills. Are you concerned about unpaid shilling as an issue, or just who pulls the strings?
    [/quote]

    When truth suffices, opinion is irrelevant.

    Well I'm skeptical of those who proclaim truth. Opinion and free thought are very relevant.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Aquarius34 wrote: »
    It's rampant, let me tell you.

    So if we take your criteria for a shill at face value, we can assume you're shilling for alternative medicine websites.


    Gosh, isn't this fun......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Don't. He's just trying to get you banned!
    Ah for feck sake,you really think I go out of my way to get people banned.
    I have reported 1 post in my time on boards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,908 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Pottler wrote: »
    There's plenty of shills. I "know" someone on their third Boards account, with about 20k posts, and "they've" come across plenty of posters they'd regard as blatant shills. Some may even be mods. wow, mind blowing. Not. Whenever I see a hugely detailed reply, with massive multi-quoting and a really clear agenda, I always go hmm. Normal people just couldn't be arsed.

    I'm the same with this pottler.....i couldn't be arsed with looking for facts or figures to beat an argument online so i'd probably just call the poster a w*nker and leave it at that....that's why i'd never make a shill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    hah, its as obvious as the nose on your face that this goes on all over the web
    and this CT forum is full of them .


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