Buying UHF Aerials needed for Saorview

Cork Skate

I just want to post a thread specifically for Ultra-High Frequency or UHF Aerials and whats needed, what people should know, how much to buy and how much to get them installed etc.

First up here is what they look like and here is Saorview's FAQ on aerials.

A UHF aerial can be bought in loads of places, i'm looking for one myself so just going to post up the first few results i find. Does anyone know of any good value offers or are there any brands that people should stay away from?

www.tvtrade.ie
Argos.ie
Woodies.ie
Amazon.co.uk

jjf1974

The aerials sold in woddies and argos are very expensive and in my experience very flimsy.If you have good reception in your area a contract aerial like those in tvtrade.ie should be fine as they are fairly solid.

Happyman42

What do you mean by 'contract ariel'?

St Senan

This whole thread would get better response in Terrestrial. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=56

icdg

Moved to Terrestrial. In general people should refrain from posting at all in the ICDG forum.

tmull

Cork Skate, Dwyers on Forge Hill have a very good selection of these and a map of transmitters that indicates the aerial required.Fairly knowledgeable staff too to guide you. TMULL

excollier

icdg wrote: »

Moved to Terrestrial. In general people should refrain from posting at all in the ICDG forum.

Then why is it even here?

winston_1

Cork Skate wrote: »

A UHF aerial can be bought in loads of places, i'm looking for one myself so just going to post up the first few results i find. Does anyone know of any good value offers or are there any brands that people should stay away from?

www.tvtrade.ie
Argos.ie
Woodies.ie
Amazon.co.uk

The aerials shown on all those websites are wideband and therefore WRONG. An aerial of the correct group for the transmitter should be used.

paddyjnr

yes have to agree Dwyers on Forge Hill are definitely the place... good quality and cheap as well....

coylemj

winston_1 wrote: »

The aerials shown on all those websites are wideband and therefore WRONG. An aerial of the correct group for the transmitter should be used.

So the thousands of people in Dublin with contract aerials pointing to Kippure and Three Rock are all WRONG?

And the entire population of Athlone receiving Saorview from Cairn Hill (45 kms as the crow flies) with contracts are all WRONG?

jjf1974

winston_1 wrote: »

The aerials shown on all those websites are wideband and therefore WRONG. An aerial of the correct group for the transmitter should be used.

There is 4 different grouped contract aerials as well as 3 different types of wideband aerials shown on the tvtrade website.Whats WRONG with wideband aerials there is thousands of them all around the country.

Cork Skate

Folks, just another question on this .... Is it ok to setup UHF inside, as in inside the attic, or would they just not work? Has anyone tried this previously?

Ronnie Raygun

UHF tv band frequencies will penetrate buildings, but the transmitter network is planned with outdoor aerials in mind, so indoor installations can't be guaranteed to work reliably, if at all.

coylemj

Cork Skate wrote: »

Folks, just another question on this .... Is it ok to setup UHF inside, as in inside the attic, or would they just not work? Has anyone tried this previously?

Depends on the strength of the signal, the elevation of your house and whether there are obstacles between you and the transmitter. There are thousands of people with indoor aerials, attic aerials and rooftop aerials, there is no definitive answer, too many local variables. Best way to start is to see what your neighbours are doing.

winston_1

Happyman42 wrote: »

What do you mean by 'contract ariel'?

Sounds like something you put in your washing machine.

winston_1

jjf1974 wrote: »

Whats WRONG with wideband aerials there is thousands of them all around the country.

Wideband aerials are lower gain especially at the bottom of the frequency range. They should only be used when the local transmitter uses frequencies at different parts of the UHF band which does not happen in Ireland.

coylemj

winston_1 wrote: »

Wideband aerials are lower gain especially at the bottom of the frequency range. They should only be used when the local transmitter uses frequencies at different parts of the UHF band which does not happen in Ireland.

Or when the signal is so strong that it doesn't matter, that covers a significant % of the population, including virtually everyone living in Co. Dublin

The entire population of Athlone with rooftop aerials use contracts to pick up Cairn Hill which is 45 kms away and my sister uses a wideband grid aerial on the roof of her bungalow to pick up Mt. Leinster 65 kms away.

So you're talking nonsense as usual.

Peter Rhea

coylemj wrote: »

The entire population of Athlone with rooftop aerials use contracts to pick up Cairn Hill which is 45 kms away . . .

I don't see where contract aerials were singled out for criticism anywhere in this thread, unless you think all contracts are wideband or something?

winston_1

And you are being very rude as well as misinformed.

Contract aerials are cheaply made aerials for the lower end of the aerial trade. That does not mean they are wideband. Contract aerials are available in all the groups and perhaps all those people you mention in Athlone (which I'm sure is not the ENTIRE population with rooftop aerials) are using grouped contract aerials.

In general there is no point in using a wideband aerial when a grouped type is available, good signals or not.

Grid aerials are used for another reason, their good front to back ratio and lower susceptibility to multi path.

Tony

Not to disagree with you by any means but I'm wondering why RTE were recommending the use of wideband aerials at the launch seminars ? Are MUX 1 and 2 freqs far apart in some areas ?

winston_1 wrote: »

In general there is no point in using a wideband aerial when a grouped type is available, good signals or not.

The Cush

Tony wrote: »

but I'm wondering why RTE were recommending the use of wideband aerials at the launch seminars ? Are MUX 1 and 2 freqs far apart in some areas ?

From a general public point of view I recall from their publications that they recommended the use of a wideband aerial where combined reception of analogue and DTT was required (Three Rock, Mt Leinster and Spur Hill), if DTT ony reception was required a grouped aerial was recommended.

The published Mux1 and 2 frequencies are all within group.

Tony

Thanks for clearing that up.

The Cush wrote: »

From a general public point of view I recall from their publications that they recommended the use of a wideband aerial where combined reception of analogue and DTT was required (Three Rock, Mt Leinster and Spur Hill), if DTT ony reception was required a grouped aerial was recommended.

The published Mux1 and 2 frequencies are all within group.

12 element

There's no difference between a group C/D and a wideband apart from the writing on the box in most cases so of course they should be used.

coylemj

Aerials in Athlone are wideband contracts, most of them are >30 years old since Cairn Hill was erected. Signal from Cairn Hill is excellent, a poster here a while back even said he can pick up Cairn Hill on an indoor aerial in Athlone.

Unless your transmitter is Group A or you're picking up from a long way off like NI TV from Dublin, a wideband in most cases is perfectly adequate.

Skull Murphy

You must have installed all the contract aerials in Athlone yourself if you're so sure they are all wideband, rather than group B. It's not like the trade have any problem getting hold of grouped aerials & any installer in that area would have no other use for a contract aerial, apart from reception of Cairn Hill.

winston_1

12 element wrote: »

There's no difference between a group C/D and a wideband apart from the writing on the box in most cases so of course they should be used.

Not true. A group C/D aerial has a smaller reflector than a wideband for a start.Also director spacing and size will differ. A C/D aerial used on group A will be abysmal.

12 element

Don't think you're right. Most manufactures only make groups a, b and c/dw. I guess it's irrelevant now that the new grouped aerials should be on the market soon!

Play To Kill

The difference between a wideband aerial and group c/d is huge at the lower end of the band, if you were taking signal from Mullaghanish on ch21 for example you wouldn't get much from a group c/d, you'd do a lot better with a wideband but really you would need a group A in places to avoid using a masthead amp.

12 element

Yeah I've seen that before. How is a wideband aerial tuned to be more effective on the lower channels?

Who even makes C/D aerials any more?

http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/19491-unix-52-aerial-cdw-group-108790-triax.html

http://www.dwyers.ie/Antiference-Group-C-D-W-RX-Yagi-UHF-TV-Aerial/RX12CDW/

http://www.satelliteandaerialsupplies.com/product/?s=vision-v10-481-cdw-uhf-high-gain-wideband-television-aerial-for-digital-tv

I don't think that picture is based on actual measurements.

Play To Kill

I know Blake still manufacture a c/d but I don't know who else. I'd be reluctant to use the CDW for ch21.

GerardKeating

Cork Skate wrote: »

Folks, just another question on this .... Is it ok to setup UHF inside, as in inside the attic, or would they just not work? Has anyone tried this previously?

We use one in the Attic, to a Main transmitter at least 60/70 KM away.

winston_1

12 element wrote: »

Don't think you're right. Most manufactures only make groups a, b and c/dw.

Interesting, not come across that.

budgemook

Resurrecting thread rather than starting new one.

My old NTL cable that came in via co-ax cable got cut off the other day (wasn't paying for it but surprised they bothered) so I want to get some channels.

All I want is RTE1, RTE2, BBC1, BBC2 and possibly Channel 4 (Realise this could be tricky).

I'm going to get a Samsung TV that is soarview and freeview approved.

Any chance I'd get any of the NI channels using an indoor aerial? If not, will I get what I want by throwing a UHF aerial on the roof?

winston_1

It does rather depend on where you live. If near the border the chances are yes if down south almost certainly not, but I would install rather than throw an aerial on the roof.

budgemook

winston_1 wrote: »

It does rather depend on where you live. If near the border the chances are yes if down south almost certainly not, but I would install rather than throw an aerial on the roof.

I'm in Dublin.

I had a look around the houses around the area and none of them have the normal UHF aerials. A good few of them seem to have flat square or diamond shaped white panels. What are they?

Sheldons Brain

If you are in a position to erect an external aerial, then you can probably erect a satellite dish and this will provide a reliable service.

zg3409

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

If you are in a position to erect an external aerial, then you can probably erect a satellite dish and this will provide a reliable service.

The white panels are probably for internet only. In Dublin you should get an installer to put up a dish and an aerial. Then you can get RTE, BBC, Channel 4 and loads of others for free. It's best not to attempt to do this yourself but pay a professional for a once off setup. You do not need to buy a new TV, but if you were you should discuss this with the installer. A TV with an inbuilt satellite and aerial tuner might be a better option as most TVs don't have a connection for a dish.

budgemook

zg3409 wrote: »

The white panels are probably for internet only. In Dublin you should get an installer to put up a dish and an aerial. Then you can get RTE, BBC, Channel 4 and loads of others for free. It's best not to attempt to do this yourself but pay a professional for a once off setup. You do not need to buy a new TV, but if you were you should discuss this with the installer. A TV with an inbuilt satellite and aerial tuner might be a better option as most TVs don't have a connection for a dish.

I'm probably going to get a Samsung smart TV that has saorview and freeview built in.

It's curious that none of the other houses seem to have UHF aerials. I'll see what local companies are around and ask them for the best option.

zg3409

budgemook wrote: »

I'm probably going to get a Samsung smart TV that has saorview and freeview built in.

It's curious that none of the other houses seem to have UHF aerials. I'll see what local companies are around and ask them for the best option.

It won't work in Dublin, it will not pick up any freeview channels. As already suggested you need a dish and a box or TV with a connection for a dish to get the UK channels

budgemook

In my mothers house in the midlands she has a UHF aerial and a saorview box. BBC1 and BBC2 come in through that.

What TV's have a Satellite connection?

cranefly

Some panasonic tvs and lg have a sat connection, but i would go for a samsung f6500 model the 6400 or below do not have a sat connection, the 6500 is not just a sat connection, it is a freesat connection, which is a big difference when scanning for channels, freesat come in the right order and if new channels come on freesat, your tv will store them automatically.

Solasgeal

zg3409 wrote: »

The white panels are probably for internet only. In Dublin you should get an installer to put up a dish and an aerial. Then you can get RTE, BBC, Channel 4 and loads of others for free. It's best not to attempt to do this yourself but pay a professional for a once off setup. You do not need to buy a new TV, but if you were you should discuss this with the installer. A TV with an inbuilt satellite and aerial tuner might be a better option as most TVs don't have a connection for a dish.

Hi,

If you get a TV with an inbuilt satellite and aerial tuner do you not still have to install a physical aerial to get Saorview? Sorry totally clueless on modern TVs and what i need to do!!

Invincible

Solasgeal wrote: »

Hi,

If you get a TV with an inbuilt satellite and aerial tuner do you not still have to install a physical aerial to get Saorview? Sorry totally clueless on modern TVs and what i need to do!!

Yes, you need an aerial for saorview.
Some areas that cannot receive saorview are offered saorsat through a dish system.
Some Sony sets also have sat connection built in, W653 has that I know of.

zg3409

For Saorview (Irish channels only) some sort of an aerial is needed. In some locations an indoor aerial may work for them, but it is always recommended to use an outdoor rooftop aerial. In Dublin for the UK channels everyone should use a dish.

Some Walker TVs also have a satellite connection. They are on the cheaper side quality and feature wise.

If you don't want to buy a new TV you can get combo set top boxes that have an aerial and a satellite connection. They are around 100 Euro, but you should allow 200 for installation of a dish and aerial. Do not buy any boxes or TVs without discussing it first with the installer. Installers generally prefer to set up and provide the boxes themselves.

winston_1

zg3409 wrote: »

Do not buy any boxes or TVs without discussing it first with the installer. Installers generally prefer to set up and provide the boxes themselves.

What? The installer is installing an aerial and dish. What has the box got to do with him? He should have a meter to test his work not your box.

The Cush

If you go to the Powercity website, TV section, there is a tick box (lh column) which will highlight TV with satellite tuners e.g. Tv 28" - 32" Screen with : Satellite Tuner http://www.powercity.ie/index.php?sortprice=Low-High&brands=&checks%5B%5D=603&feature=&pages=1&min=0&max=20000&par=10-12&action=brandstory&cat=10-12

budgemook

zg3409 wrote: »

For Saorview (Irish channels only) some sort of an aerial is needed. In some locations an indoor aerial may work for them, but it is always recommended to use an outdoor rooftop aerial. In Dublin for the UK channels everyone should use a dish.

Some Walker TVs also have a satellite connection. They are on the cheaper side quality and feature wise.

If you don't want to buy a new TV you can get combo set top boxes that have an aerial and a satellite connection. They are around 100 Euro, but you should allow 200 for installation of a dish and aerial. Do not buy any boxes or TVs without discussing it first with the installer. Installers generally prefer to set up and provide the boxes themselves.

In the Midlands bbc can be received through a uhf aerial and saorview box. Why not Dublin?

Peter Rhea

What part of Dublin?

'Can be received' & 'worth going to the trouble' are 2 different things. A satellite dish is a more sensible proposition than the kind of outdoor terrestrial aerial array you might need. And satellite signals don't suffer weather-related interference from unwanted transmissions on the same channel, like happens with terrestrial, especially out-of-area reception.

sawdoubters

any electrical wholesalers will have them,get vhf/uhf outside will do

Peter Rhea

sawdoubters wrote: »

. . . get vhf/uhf outside will do

Will do for what? Which VHF band & what's on it?

zg3409

winston_1 wrote: »

What? The installer is installing an aerial and dish. What has the box got to do with him? He should have a meter to test his work not your box.

There are various issues

1) People buy the wrong box, for example a Saorview/Freeview only TV, when they need a combo box

2) If the system stops working, the installer gets called, when the problem may be the box, which they have nothing to do with. If the installer supplied the box they will know the common problems people have, and can provide support over the phone.

3) It can take more than an hour to program a box, unless the installer provides a box that is pre-programmed

4) The installer can explain the pro's and con's of cheaper and more expensive boxes and demo them, meaning you could end up with a box that cannot do series link, when you actually want a box that can do this, but you may not know that beforehand.

You should take the advice of professionals, they have experience and know tricks of the trade. For example people buy the wrong size doors and then ask a carpenter to fit them.

You should be getting at least a years warrenty for the installation and box.