Meeting Site Requirements prior to purchase

Arddon

Hi
I was looking for some more sound advice from the boarders...
I have recently been looking to purchase a site in the country to build a house on.
The site my wife & I have agreed upon is 0.5acres
The site is up for sale for the last 2yrs approx.
It is "local needs" and there is "outline planning permission".
I would like some advice on a couple of issues before I proceed any further.

We currently own (unfortunately) & live in a house in town
My home house (in the country) is located 4.6km by road from this site, and I lived at home for 29 yrs...but, when I print out a scaled map, and draw a circle of 4km radius, the site falls within the circle.
Do I therefore meet "local needs".
Or should I/can I ring the local County Council planning office and ask them to confirm this?

The second item of concern is the "outline planning permission".
Can this be restrictive in anyway, or are there any negatives associated with this?
Basically I dont want to buy a site and then not be able to build a house on it.
It is situated between two houses (one built circa 2009) so they obviously let people build in area recently.

I am hesitant to approach the estate agent until I know that I meet local needs & outline planning is not an issue.
Maybe this is not the right attitude?

Also, if I am then able to go ahead on the purchase, what kind of offer should I make considering the site is up for last 2 yrs and also it is limited to "local needs"?
Offer 10%, 20% etc below asking price??
I guess the site is ultimately worth what I am prepared to pay....

Thanks for you help boarders
Arddon

Mod - if this is posted in the wrong section, my apologies, please move to correct section.

archtech

The fact you currently own a house, under many development plans effectively means you have no housing need and would generally eliminate you from successfully obtaining permission for another house.

That aside, outline permission only lasts 3 years and permission consequent to a grant of permission needs to be made prior to this running out. Possible potential restrictions regarding house design, sight distances, treatment unit etc most properly have been conditioned as part of the grant of outline permission, which can be helpful.

Arddon

Thanks for the reply Archtech...I did wonder/fear that alright, that the fact I owned a house may count against me.

Is it a case of contacting the planning office to find out?

BryanF

Arddon wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Archtech...I did wonder/fear that alright, that the fact I owned a house may count against me.

Is it a case of contacting the planning office to find out?

For a small fee a local arch / planning consultant would be best placed to advise

muffler

As alluded to above by archtech different PA's have different requirements in the devp. plans with regards to rural housing policies and the fact that you have a house could go against you. Most if not all the development plans for around the country are available online so have a look at it first.

I would suggest ringing or calling in to see the local planner. Dont talk to admin staff whatever you. You can also talk to a local arch. technician/architect who is familiar with the rural housing policies.

If you get to a stage where you are going to make a planning application make sure that you agree to purchase the site only subject to getting permission. Basically as outline PP has been granted the council will grant permission for A house...may not be the type of house you want though and this is why you shouldn't purchase until you get PP for your proposed design. You should also check the conditions on the outline PP as these can sometime stipulate the type of house (i.e single, 1.5/2 storey) that will be considered.

Regarding the cost of the site I would suggest you start fairly low - at least 30% less than the asking price. Give yourself a bit of elbow room for maneuvering

Certified

I would not recommend contacting your planning department at all, they will most likely be biased with their advice when dealing with potential once off rural developments. They will not actively encourage anyone to move from a town to the countryside.
I'd be 90-100% certain your local planner will say you do not qualify, when there is actually a chance you may qualify.
I'd recommend contacting an arch. technician or architect for advice, will not cost much in the scheme of things

martinn123

muffler wrote: »

Regarding the cost of the site I would suggest you start fairly low - at least 30% less than the asking price. Give yourself a bit of elbow room for maneuvering

While constantly referring posters to members of your own profession, by regular contributors, is just about OK, in my opinion, I have to comment on advice regarding how to go about site purchasing .

It appears the site is on sale for some time, and as such maybe reduced considerably from the original asking price.

To advise offering a 30% reduction, is based on what.

Please remember there is Vendor as well, OK times are hard, but a reasonable price for a reasonable site should still apply.

I am not advocating the ''Celtic Tiger Prices'' buy leave a little profit for the vendor, you never know he might build a house with the proceeds on another site

muffler

martinn123 wrote: »

While constantly referring posters to members of your own profession, by regular contributors, is just about OK, in my opinion,

Whats all this about and what has it got to do with the topic.

Mod hat on: 1 post reply only otherwise take it to PM

martinn123

muffler wrote: »

Whats all this about and what has it got to do with the topic.

Mod hat on: 1 post reply only otherwise take it to PM

PM Sent

Arddon

Thanks for all the replies, even if they dont make great reading...:(

BryanF - can you give approximation of what a small fee may be for this work?

Muffler - I've checked out my county dev plan 09-15.
Qualifying criteria:
1. "that they have lived for a minimum period of 10yrs within the local area which they propose to build, do not already own a house or have not owned a house within the rural area of the county for a minimum of 5yrs prior to making an application".

This is verbatim from the plan....
So I already own a home (5yrs) - does this pretty much rule me out of building on this site?
If that is the case, do I EVER have any hope of building in the country?
Any loopholes etc...

Is it worth talking to the planner, avoiding them, or having a arch.tech/planning consultant talk to them on my behalf?

Am I going to be stuck in a house I dont particularly like living in forever?!:eek:

Thanks again folks

Poor Uncle Tom

According to what you have printed it is clear that because you own a house, you don't have a housing need, according to your current Development Plan.

Our charter doesn't allow discussions on ways around the planning process.

I would suggest that it is worth talking it through with a professional before meeting with any planner though.

The Parrot

you do have an option for getting out of the town. but you just have to purchase a fully built house rather than build unfortunatly by the sounds of it

SLselfbuild

Get a copy of ur local development plan and go through it and find the parts that can help you not just the negitive points that ar against you. A lot of development plans do allow for people who wish to return to live in the area they grew up in. Remember you own a house in the town and not the rural area. People working in dublin / cork for years have moved back to there original area and built homes close to other family members. Remember its not about getting around the development plans its about using and understanding them properly. Professional help is a start and will prob save u time and money.

Arddon

Thanks again folks...
I'm pretty p-ed off though I must admit, and could go on a rant, but what's the point?!

Poor Uncle Tom - cheers, can you specify who exactly (what profession) I should talk to and what its likely to cost me, ballpark - please?

SLselfbuild - cheers, I've downloaded my county dev plan and will start going through it.....exactly, I bought a house in the town and now I want to return to the
country....I actually never wanted to leave the countryside but had little choice, I bought my house for the same amount I was quoted for a small field (0.5acres) back in the crazy years...

Finally, for now, if a site already has full planning permission on it, Can I buy & build on this site to the plans that PP was granted for - with no hassle?
If I don't particularly want to build the house plans were granted for, is there a lot of obstacles in changing them?

Cheers, Arddon

lownhard

Arddon wrote: »

Qualifying criteria:
1. "that they have lived for a minimum period of 10yrs within the local area which they propose to build, do not already own a house or have not owned a house within the rural area of the county for a minimum of 5yrs prior to making an application".

I could be wrong but when I read that the pertinent phrase appeared to be "within the rural area". You have owned house "down the town" like. So you might be ok on that one

The syntax on that sentence is ambiguous so I wold suggested, as others have, to talk to a planner. The ones I have dealt with in my own county are very helpful. And they're mad for development contributions to come in the door!

Poor Uncle Tom

Arddon wrote: »

Poor Uncle Tom - cheers, can you specify who exactly (what profession) I should talk to and what its likely to cost me, ballpark - please?

Somebody who has a good grasp of the planning and development act as well as the relevant development plan, whether that is an arch tech, an architect, an engineer or a surveyor.

A detailed meeting with one of the above at their own offices should cost about €80 - 100 or thereabouts. Some professionals give those advice meetings free, if there are other works to follow, check first.

Arddon

Excellent - thanks boarders for all your help/advice...i will have a look for a suitable professional to discuss the matter with...keep you posted.

In relation to a site with full planning permission - any ideas anybody?

The Parrot

the site with full planning permission is the same situation im in.

you still have to meet the requirements to build in the area if it has certain condition attached i have to take over the section 47 i had to prove i was from the area and grew up and had a housing need was great digging up all the papers but got there in the end.

Arddon

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by taking over the section 47?
Also, had you a housing need - did you own a house?

The Parrot

the section 47 is a condition for locals, ie i had to prove i was from the area had a housing need (didnt own a house)
got school certs and such.

and basically i cant sell the house for 10 years not that i will want to

Arddon

Grand, thanks...
so basically owning a house is a potential major obstacle in ever moving to the country, unless as you said earlier I buy an existing house...looks like i'm going to have to sell my house - i therefore will have a housing need...what a load of balls

time to have a meeting with a professional and end the speculation me thinks...

The Parrot

yea thats sounds like a good idea.

now all the advice i have given is from my own experience in wicklow .

Poor Uncle Tom

The Parrot wrote: »

the section 47 is a condition for locals, ie i had to prove i was from the area had a housing need (didnt own a house)
got school certs and such.

and basically i cant sell the house for 10 years not that i will want to

A Section 47 agreement is a contract you must enter into with the local authority binding the applicant to be the resident of the dwelling for a set period of time, and it is usually registered as a burden on the title of the property.

The LA will not police this themselves, the object of the Section 47 agreement is to stop any lending institution from granting a mortgage to anyone else (outside of the applicant) for that particular property.

Arddon

Apologies I am only replying to you guys now, a month later, but had some other "issues" to deal with...

The good news is that I would be applicable under local needs...the critical item being that the house I currently own/live in is in the urban area and not in the rural area where I would be applying for planning...so happy days!

thanks to all boarders for words of wisdom, and apols again keeping u waiting & all the suspense!

so now for my next question....

muffler

Arddon wrote: »

so now for my next question....

......will you all come to the house warming party?

Answer: Definitely :pac: