What graphics card to buy?

ancuncha

as the title suggests i want to get a better card for my pc
i'll try and put i all the info, but i'm not very familiar with this stuff
the pc is a dell studio with a q9400 proccessor and current card is a nvida gforce 9800gt
i mostly use it to play warcraft and in low settings (with ultra on view distance for farming mats and seeing other players etc) it does well, if i up the setting it works ok (except in raid it's laggy) but fan noise is annoying

budget would be about €200-300, i might be able to stretch a bit, but money isn't as easy as it once was
i don't mind buying online as long as it's a reputable place, as thing are usually ok when you buy them, it's if you have an issue afterwards that trouble can arise

so can anyone suggest anything makes and models etc?

i recently put in a ssd, one of the best things i ever did

Deano12345

Well at the higher end of your budget (290 or so) you'd be looking at either a 660Ti from Nvidia or the 7950 from AMD, both excellent cards provided you have the power supply to run them. Since WoW isn't the most graphically demanding of games, you could get away with the 230~ euro 7870.

You may want to look into a CPU/Motherboard upgrade in the future as WoW can be very CPU intensive in parts

ancuncha

how do i know what power supply i do have?
would it be written on the power pack?

in that case let me ask where am i better to spend my money, on a graphics card or mother board? (with a view to some time down the line upgrading the other)

TerrorFirmer

I think a 660ti or 7950 is absolutely radical overkill for a Q9400.

I would say just get a 7850 and you have a good match, it's a great card for most modern games at maximum settings.

Not sure if the Dell PSU is up to it, if you check the wattage on the side of your PSU and model number we'll let you know. In fact, taking a photo would be perfect.

aN.Droid

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I think a 660ti or 7950 is absolutely radical overkill for a Q9400.

I would say just get a 7850 and you have a good match, it's a great card for most modern games at maximum settings.

Not sure if the Dell PSU is up to it, if you check the wattage on the side of your PSU and model number we'll let you know. In fact, taking a photo would be perfect.

This^ you will be bottlenecked by the CPU if you go any higher than that. Could probably dip into last years cards too for cheaper.

ancuncha

SL742390.JPG

Deano12345

ancuncha wrote: »

how do i know what power supply i do have?
would it be written on the power pack?

in that case let me ask where am i better to spend my money, on a graphics card or mother board? (with a view to some time down the line upgrading the other)

Well upgrading the motherboard would require getting a new CPU so you would have to factor that into consideration. I'd say your best bet is to pick up a 7850 and then upgrade your motherboard/cpu if you find the performance still isnt up to par

marco_polo

No harm to check PSU although I suspect the power draw of a 9800 GT probably isn't a million miles behind the 110W or so of the HD7850.

aN.Droid

ancuncha wrote: »

SL742390.JPG

You have 300W on the 12v rail. Should run just fine with a single 7850 and you will be able to play wow on ultra settings even in raids I would say.

ancuncha

ok that sounds good, but i have one more question, does the make of card like asus, saphire, msi make a difference?
if not which is a decent make or has a good back up service

aN.Droid

ancuncha wrote: »

ok that sounds good, but i have one more question, does the make of card like asus, saphire, msi make a difference?
if not which is a decent make or has a good back up service

The branding usually just means different warranties and RMA procedures and the cooler used. Saying that ASUS is my favourite vendor.

runawaybishop

ancuncha wrote: »

ok that sounds good, but i have one more question, does the make of card like asus, saphire, msi make a difference?
if not which is a decent make or has a good back up service

Yes, it makes a difference. MSi have a great slightly overclocked version of the 7850 1gb out that compares favourably to the 2gb version but this depends on the resolution you require - if its 1900*1200 you are sorted

edit: reviewed here - http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2012/11/05/msi-radeon-hd-7850-1gb-review/1

aN.Droid

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, it makes a difference. MSi have a great slightly overclocked version of the 7850 1gb out that compares favourably to the 2gb version but this depends on the resolution you require - if its 1900*1200 you are sorted

edit: reviewed here - http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2012/11/05/msi-radeon-hd-7850-1gb-review/1

You can also overclock any other vendor versions. 1gb would be ok up to 1080P or 1200P

If you want to go higher than that you will need more graphics ram.

runawaybishop

Limericks wrote: »

You can also overclock any other vendor versions. 1gb would be ok up to 1080P or 1200P

If you want to go higher than that you will need more graphics ram.

Yes you can but this is OCed and warranted already and the same price as the stock versions. The branding does make a difference some times, as is the case here.

aN.Droid

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes you can but this is OCed and warranted already and the same price as the stock versions. The branding does make a difference some times, as is the case here.

Allot of vendors allow you to overclock without voiding your warranty. This includes ASUS, XFX and evga. I do not know if that extends to changing voltages or not but I doubt any card that comes pre overclocked would have the voltages changed anyway.

marco_polo

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes you can but this is OCed and warranted already and the same price as the stock versions. The branding does make a difference some times, as is the case here.

A 40MHz bump to 900MHz doesn't really count as an decent overclock though, most HD7850 with a decent cooler will easily go to 1050 and beyond.

Most GPU vendors are bundling overclocking software with the cards nowadays so warranty is not an issue either.

ancuncha

hmm, it's getting a little bit over my head now, this overclocking how is it done?
is it via software or doing something to the card it's self

aN.Droid

ancuncha wrote: »

hmm, it's getting a little bit over my head now, this overclocking how is it done?
is it via software or doing something to the card it's self

You do it via software.

Very easy to do and you can get about 10%-20% increase in performance on your card. You will probably be bottlenecked by your CPU before that though.

ancuncha

ahh ok, so i think i've enough info now to buy
i have it in the head to at some point do a custom build (with a bit of advise!)
the card should keep me happy in the meantime

thank you very much for the help

aN.Droid

ancuncha wrote: »

ahh ok, so i think i've enough info now to buy
i have it in the head to at some point do a custom build (with a bit of advise!)
the card should keep me happy in the meantime

thank you very much for the help

If in the future you want to upgrade and build a new PC you can just add another 7850 to your system. That is unless you want super high resolutions or multi screen as 1gb won't be enough graphics memory.

ancuncha

not that i am into super res or multi screens, but i'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Radeon-DirectCU-Graphics-Express/dp/B008RW0R10/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1357580250&sr=8-5
which is 2gb??
there are probably cheaper places than amazon, but there are other reasons to shop with them

aN.Droid

ancuncha wrote: »

not that i am into super res or multi screens, but i'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Radeon-DirectCU-Graphics-Express/dp/B008RW0R10/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1357580250&sr=8-5
which is 2gb??
there are probably cheaper places than amazon, but there are other reasons to shop with them

You don't need a 2gb version unless you are at very high resolutions.

save some money and get this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-DirectCU-Graphics-Express-Technology/dp/B008RW3WTY/ref=sr_1_7?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1357580539&sr=1-7

ancuncha

cool didn't see that one, thanks

RoverZT

I think 7850 is a little too expensive for a few year old Q9400, ddr 2 setup.

6870 for 125 euro is a much better investment imo.

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/11391849/art/amd/radeon-hd-6870-oem-1-gb-g.html

Not that much between the two cards.

Edit: Didn't realise 7850 are so cheap now.

160 euro.

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/12687749/art/vtx3d/radeon-hd-7850-x-edition.html

Tough choice.

How much ram do you have?

aN.Droid

RoverZT wrote: »

I think 7850 is a little too expensive for a few year old Q9400, ddr 2 setup.

6870 for 125 euro is a much better investment imo.

Not that much between the two cards.

OP said he would like to do an upgrade down the road and if he does he would be able to just swap the 7850 in and maybe get another one in crossfire.

RoverZT

Limericks wrote: »

OP said he would like to do an upgrade down the road and if he does he would be able to just swap the 7850 in and maybe get another one in crossfire.

You can't really upgrade dell studio's though?

Don't they use custom motherboards, cases etc.

Leaving you no chance to go get a new mobo, cpu, ram combo for 250 euro etc.

aN.Droid

RoverZT wrote: »

You can't really upgrade dell studio's though?

Don't they use custom motherboards, cases etc.

Leaving you no chance to go get a new mobo, cpu, ram combo for 250 euro etc.

Sorry meant he wanted to do a new build not an upgrade

uncle_sam_ie

This thread is talks about the warranties( the list is updated). It seems EVGA, Gigabyte and MSI are recommend. AUSU is low on the list.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18231329

aN.Droid

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

This thread is talks about the warranties( the list is updated). It seems EVGA, Gigabyte and MSI are recommend. AUSU is low on the list.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18231329

If OP buys from Amazon and something goes awry then they will sort you out sharpish. They are great for customer support.

uncle_sam_ie

Limericks wrote: »

If OP buys from Amazon and something goes awry then they will sort you out sharpish. They are great for customer support.

I agree they have great customer service but, will Amazon cover you for the full 3 years?

aN.Droid

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I agree they have great customer service but, will Amazon cover you for the full 3 years?

They should. Your statutory consumer rights mean they have too. They have an Irish presence so they would have to abide by our rules.

uncle_sam_ie

Limericks wrote: »

They should. Your statutory consumer rights mean they have too. They have an Irish presence so they would have to abide by our rules.

Well bought my ASUS MB (3 years warranty) from Komplett but, they will only cover it for the first 2 years. After that I have to go to ASUS for an RMA.

aN.Droid

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

Well bought my ASUS MB (3 years warranty) from Komplett but, they will only cover it for the first 2 years. After that I have to go to ASUS for an RMA.

That is what they say but your contract lies with the retailer you bought it from and not the manufacturer and they have to sort your out with either a repair, replacement or refund.

runawaybishop

Limericks wrote: »

Allot of vendors allow you to overclock without voiding your warranty. This includes ASUS, XFX and evga. I do not know if that extends to changing voltages or not but I doubt any card that comes pre overclocked would have the voltages changed anyway.

Some do, some don't. Many consumers are not comfortable overclocking (such as the op). I'm not exactly sure why this pissing contest started but its not much use to the OP. I still stand by my earlier post in that there can be significant differences between different brands of the same card. The MSi version is, right now, the best version of the 7850 1gb.

ancuncha wrote: »

hmm, it's getting a little bit over my head now, this overclocking how is it done?
is it via software or doing something to the card it's self

The card I linked is already over-clocked for you, you do not need to do anything.

marco_polo wrote: »

A 40MHz bump to 900MHz doesn't really count as an decent overclock though, most HD7850 with a decent cooler will easily go to 1050 and beyond.

Most GPU vendors are bundling overclocking software with the cards nowadays so warranty is not an issue either.

Its obviously a small overclock but it does increase performance for the consumer with no hassle to them. It is also the overclock MSI are happy to stand over.

ancuncha wrote: »

not that i am into super res or multi screens, but i'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Radeon-DirectCU-Graphics-Express/dp/B008RW0R10/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1357580250&sr=8-5
which is 2gb??
there are probably cheaper places than amazon, but there are other reasons to shop with them

The 1gb version is all you need if you aren't running large resolutions. Its not the framebuffer (the memory) that will bottle neck you.

marco_polo

What pissing contest? Nobody said the card you suggested wasn't a good one. I really don't see why you would have a problem with us pointing out that the fact that the vast majority of vendors now have zero problem with allowing software overclocking of their products without voiding warranties. The MSI you linked to even comes with the afterburner CD in the box.

Sticking to the default overclock gives a very minimal performance boost of 1 FPS in BF3 over a reference HD7850, whereas a very healthy increase is possible with very little effort indeed.

And I am sure the OP can decide for themselves if overclocking is something they would be comfortable with.

aN.Droid

runawaybishop wrote: »

Some do, some don't. Many consumers are not comfortable overclocking (such as the op). I'm not exactly sure why this pissing contest started but its not much use to the OP. I still stand by my earlier post in that there can be significant differences between different brands of the same card. The MSi version is, right now, the best version of the 7850 1gb..

No pissing contest intended. Just informing the OP as much as possible. The MSI card does not give a significant improvement though as pointed out above. And I think it was of great use to the OP as he picked out an asus card and not the one you recommended.

OP get whatever brand you wish and use afterburner to overclock it to 1000+mhz if you need help with that post back here and we will give you a step by step guide. It is actually 3 steps. 1 install program, 2 pick the overclock speed, 3 save the settings and your done.

runawaybishop

marco_polo wrote: »

What pissing contest? Nobody said the card you suggested wasn't a good one. I really don't see why you would have a problem with us pointing out that the fact that the vast majority of vendors now have zero problem with allowing software overclocking of their products without voiding warranties. The MSI you linked to even comes with the afterburner CD in the box.

Sticking to the default overclock gives a very minimal performance boost of 1 FPS in BF3 over a reference HD7850, whereas a very healthy increase is possible with very little effort indeed.

And I am sure the OP can decide for themselves if overclocking is something they would be comfortable with.

I dont have a problem with what you pointed out. There is a difference in the vendor that you select for your card, thats all i said initially. I forgot this was boards where you cant make a simple statement without argument, silly me. With that in mind, BF3 is a poor game to choose, its a pig anyway.

aN.Droid

runawaybishop wrote: »

I dont have a problem with what you pointed out. There is a difference in the vendor that you select for your card, thats all i said initially. I forgot this was boards where you cant make a simple statement without argument, silly me. With that in mind, BF3 is a poor game to choose, its a pig anyway.

In fairness there was no argument. We all gave the op information to mull over - some of which we did not agree upon. The OP has a choice in which advice to follow.

I think you are reading a little too much into our responses.

marco_polo

runawaybishop wrote: »

I dont have a problem with what you pointed out. There is a difference in the vendor that you select for your card, thats all i said initially. I forgot this was boards where you cant make a simple statement without argument, silly me. With that in mind, BF3 is a poor game to choose, itsa pig anyway.

I didn't at any point disagree with anything said in your initial post, the one and only point I argued in any way was the implication in subsequent posts that a factory overclock was the only warranty safe way to get a performance boost.

There's really no need to take such offence.

runawaybishop

Fair enough, probably just me being a sensitive dick due to being back at work after an extended break.

ancuncha

so i ordered the 2gb asus one, i know 1 is enough for me now, but for the 30 extra i'm also thinking of down the line

salvaging what i can for the dell, not neeeding screens or perifierals it could definatly use more ram
what sort of money would a decent build cost, now i know you'll say as much as i want for the spec, but can you guys give me a clue as to what spec money will buy
say a sensible spec at sensible money

i know i'm not explaining very well, but i wanna try and figure out what the budget should be
in other word, is there a amount where you get good value for money when building

aN.Droid

ancuncha wrote: »

so i ordered the 2gb asus one, i know 1 is enough for me now, but for the 30 extra i'm also thinking of down the line

salvaging what i can for the dell, not neeeding screens or perifierals it could definatly use more ram
what sort of money would a decent build cost, now i know you'll say as much as i want for the spec, but can you guys give me a clue as to what spec money will buy
say a sensible spec at sensible money

i know i'm not explaining very well, but i wanna try and figure out what the budget should be
in other word, is there a amount where you get good value for money when building

Well, since you will already have the graphics card that takes a good chunk out of a new build.

Likely your dell is using old tech so will be on DDR2 ram seeing as you are using a 9800. Won't be usable in a new build.

It might cost you about 500 for the rest.

200-250 for decent CPU
50 for ram
50-100 for mother board
can salvage hard drives from dell if they are sata - ditto for cd drive
You said you already had an SSD
40-80 for PSU
30-150 for case - this is up to you, cheap and cheerful or big and expensive

If you want to continue to play latest games at more than 1080p resolutions at full graphics you wil probably need to get another graphics card in a year or so aswell but you can worry about that then. You can just get another 7850 and put them in crossfire. It will be cheaper down the line too.

ancuncha

that's exactly an idea that i was trying to get, so it gives me an idea what to get the piggy bank up to, 500-600 is what i'll be thinking
so i'll shout again when i can do it

and thanks again for the help