Advice regarding dealing with Slow Play

PARlance

Mods, I know there's been a few threads on slow play so please feel free to move, however, I think this may be worth starting a new thread.

I've one question really, is it acceptable to approach the group ahead and ask or explain to them about slow play and letting people through?

Unique situation happened on Saturday, we couldn't get through to the pro shop, the Pro later told us he was the only person on site but he'd have gladly called the security company who would have had someone there in 15mins to mind the shop for him whilst he went out as ranger. (Playing Palmerstown)

Our 2 ball we stuck behind another 2 ball for 11 holes last Saturday.

After a few frustrating holes we realised that the 2 ball ahead were new to the game or just didn't understand the concept of letting people through.
They spent the 11 holes quickly looking for their ball off the tee, then invariably dropping another one once they had seen us at the tee, followed by a brisk run up to their 2nd shot that was usually in range for my playing partner.

Basically, I'd say they had a horrid round themselves with all this running and rushing around.
If they were aware of letting people through then I'm sure they would have had a more enjoyable round themselves rather than all the rushing around they were doing.

On the 14th, we got within 40 yards of one of them who had stopped to put on his rain gear.
I asked him was their any chance we could play through as his other partner was looking for his ball.
He didn't know what I was saying, without being aggressive or anything, he just said, but my ball isn't lost, it's his (pointing at partner) and proceeded to run up to his own ball and almost hit it on the run

We couldn't believe what was going on, frustration turned to laughter as we were picking up their balls that the left behind on several holes.
They were dropping another ball after a minute once they couldn't find the original.

We were very close to doing a bit of running ourselves and heading up the 150 or so yards from the tee (one of them was having a bad day off the tee) and explaining that they should really just let us through instead of rushing around the course.

What would you do in this situation?
Would it be poor form to approach someone like this.

They didn't hang around afterwards either, we seen them drive off whilst we approached the car park.

Mr. Larson

If they have lost ground on the group ahead and are holding you up (or suspect they may do so in the future), or even if there is no one ahead and they are holding you up, you're not being a dick by pointing that out to them. You're just stating facts. Problem I see is that the slow group aren't put under enough pressure from the group(s) behind.

onlyfinewine

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Mods, I know there's been a few threads on slow play so please feel free to move, however, I think this may be worth starting a new thread.

I've one question really, is it acceptable to approach the group ahead and ask or explain to them about slow play and letting people through?

Unique situation happened on Saturday, we couldn't get through to the pro shop, the Pro later told us he was the only person on site but he'd have gladly called the security company who would have had someone there in 15mins to mind the shop for him whilst he went out as ranger. (Playing Palmerstown)

Our 2 ball we stuck behind another 2 ball for 11 holes last Saturday.

After a few frustrating holes we realised that the 2 ball ahead were new to the game or just didn't understand the concept of letting people through.
They spent the 11 holes quickly looking for their ball off the tee, then invariably dropping another one once they had seen us at the tee, followed by a brisk run up to their 2nd shot that was usually in range for my playing partner.

Basically, I'd say they had a horrid round themselves with all this running and rushing around.
If they were aware of letting people through then I'm sure they would have had a more enjoyable round themselves rather than all the rushing around they were doing.

On the 14th, we got within 40 yards of one of them who had stopped to put on his rain gear.
I asked him was their any chance we could play through as his other partner was looking for his ball.
He didn't know what I was saying, without being aggressive or anything, he just said, but my ball isn't lost, it's his (pointing at partner) and proceeded to run up to his own ball and almost hit it on the run

We couldn't believe what was going on, frustration turned to laughter as we were picking up their balls that the left behind on several holes.
They were dropping another ball after a minute once they couldn't find the original.

We were very close to doing a bit of running ourselves and heading up the 150 or so yards from the tee (one of them was having a bad day off the tee) and explaining that they should really just let us through instead of rushing around the course.

What would you do in this situation?
Would it be poor form to approach someone like this.

They didn't hang around afterwards either, we seen them drive off whilst we approached the car park.

Sounds like it was no great shakes for either two-ball to be fair!

From what you say you never got close enough to the lads in front to explain the situation to them and they sound as though they would be open to suggestion as they were doing their best to keep ahead of you abandoning balls and running to keep ahead. Were there no holes running parallel to each other that you could have used to talk to them?

PARlance

onlyfinewine wrote: »

Sounds like it was no great shakes for either two-ball to be fair!

From what you say you never got close enough to the lads in front to explain the situation to them and they sound as though they would be open to suggestion as they were doing their best to keep ahead of you abandoning balls and running to keep ahead. Were there no holes running parallel to each other that you could have used to talk to them?

We got through the front 9 in 2 hours and the back 9 took us 2:40 so it was frustrating for us.
It was in Palmerstown and there really aren't any holes running parallel where you can have a talk.

"never got close enough to.... explain the situation"
That's really my point, how can you possibly get close to them without playing dangerously and hitting right up there behinds... even at that you'd be doing well to get up to your ball without them being another 150 yards ahead by the time you do so.
Our only option (other than walking through the hole) was to leave our bags at the tee and run up to them and try to explain.

That was my question really, is it ok to do this?

lowelife

ajcurry123 wrote: »

We got through the front 9 in 2 hours and the back 9 took us 2:40 so it was frustrating for us.
It was in Palmerstown and there really aren't any holes running parallel where you can have a talk.

"never got close enough to.... explain the situation"
That's really my point, how can you possibly get close to them without playing dangerously and hitting right up there behinds... even at that you'd be doing well to get up to your ball without them being another 150 yards ahead by the time you do so.
Our only option (other than walking through the hole) was to leave our bags at the tee and run up to them and try to explain.

That was my question really, is it ok to do this?

Yes, even if its only to make me laugh.

I've got this picture of people chasing each other around the golf course.

You say they was running anyway and looking back and now you plan to run after them.

Its like something from a Laurel and Hardy film.

Ok chuckle over I'm easily amused :P

PARlance

Mr. Larson wrote: »

If they have lost ground on the group ahead and are holding you up (or suspect they may do so in the future), or even if there is no one ahead and they are holding you up, you're not being a dick by pointing that out to them. You're just stating facts. Problem I see is that the slow group aren't put under enough pressure from the group(s) behind.

We did try signal them to let us through 5 or 6 times, but we gave up after a while when they thought we were helping point them in the direction of their lost balls.

We just felt that running up after them to inform them would have been out of order but if I was in the same situation again I think I'd jog up to them.

onlyfinewine

Notice on Palmerstown web site.

"Our course is open to visitors all year round. No handicap certificate is required, although beginners might find this championship course demanding."

Might explain the Newness of the two-ball in front. Maybe the pro shop could have probed a little deeper before letting them out or advised on the proper etiquette if no handicaps available?

PARlance

lowelife wrote: »

Yes, even if its only to make me laugh.

I've got this picture of people chasing each other around the golf course.

You say they was running anyway and looking back and now you plan to run after them.

Its like something from a Laurel and Hardy film.

Ok chuckle over I'm easily amused :P

Ahh stop, it wouldn't have been far off Laurel and Hardy.

One of them had a carrier bag and he left it down 20 yards before each shot.
He'd run from the bag to the ball, hit it, then sprint back to bag and then jog up ahead.
The same on the greens, the bag would be left as far away from the next tee as possible. Putt, sprint, jog.... he never once walked on the green with the carrier bag either which was another point of amusement/bewilderment.
I'm fully convinced they were decent lads trying to speed things up the best they could but without knowing the fundamentals.

My playing partner loses the rag at the best of times but after a few holes of frustration, we could do nothing else but laugh at the sprinting that was going on up ahead.

lowelife

Oh bollocks I've even added a touch of Yakety Sax to the senario (I know this is Benny Hil but oh well)

Must go take a breather outside now else the office will really think I've lost the plot :P

ShriekingSheet

My club did some observation and stats at one of our medals, and have put in place a couple of small new measures to combat slow play. I was interested to see, with regard to the OP, the email we all got about it specifically said players should not confront a slow group - this should always be the Ranger that does the talking.

I suppose it's just a realisation that no matter how polite you put it, asking someone to hurry up or let you through will cause hassle in a few cases. Sure, the majority of people have the cop on to be civil and calm about the situation, but we've all seen gaskets blown and days ruined also.

Personally, I never say/ask/suggest, for the simple reason that you're only stating the bleedin' obvious. Any group who's lost a hole or more, while also having us right behind for a period of time can see the problem for themselves. If it goes on for a few holes, they're obviously prepared to ignore the situation, so saying it to them, however in the right I may be, is automatically going to cause conflict.

Sure, there are times where you've complete beginners as above, or the odd time regular players will not spot the loss of hole(s), but by and large, they are in the vast minority of these situations.

I find it best for my own enjoyment/performance to chill out and even try and almost lose ground to them. Take longer reading putts, getting yardages and just play at their pace. If I get a call, I'll shoot through at pace, otherwise, relax and make the best of it.

m r c

Sounds v funny the poor feckers sprinting when they knew no different.
In a weird way I'd have less of an issue with new fellas doing that than I'd have with fellas who are golfing years and don't know how to "look behind them" that gets me going a lot more. They know full well they are holding the place up but couldn't give a bo***x for anyone else.
While the end result is the same you could at least see the new lads were making some effort.
What is a fair time for a round all things being equal though? If their are 4 balls out anything under 4 hours acceptable and 3.30 for 2 balls. Something around that and I'd not be too unhappy being honest

PARlance

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

My club did some observation and stats at one of our medals, and have put in place a couple of small new measures to combat slow play. I was interested to see, with regard to the OP, the email we all got about it specifically said players should not confront a slow group - this should always be the Ranger that does the talking.

I suppose it's just a realisation that no matter how polite you put it, asking someone to hurry up or let you through will cause hassle in a few cases. Sure, the majority of people have the cop on to be civil and calm about the situation, but we've all seen gaskets blown and days ruined also.

Personally, I never say/ask/suggest, for the simple reason that you're only stating the bleedin' obvious. Any group who's lost a hole or more, while also having us right behind for a period of time can see the problem for themselves. If it goes on for a few holes, they're obviously prepared to ignore the situation, so saying it to them, however in the right I may be, is automatically going to cause conflict.

Sure, there are times where you've complete beginners as above, or the odd time regular players will not spot the loss of hole(s), but by and large, they are in the vast minority of these situations.

I find it best for my own enjoyment/performance to chill out and even try and almost lose ground to them. Take longer reading putts, getting yardages and just play at their pace. If I get a call, I'll shoot through at pace, otherwise, relax and make the best of it.

Good points SS, we did chill out after we realised they were beginners and in the absence of being able to contact the ranger I think it's best not to approach.
We debated it though, but we reckoned it might cause some agro if one of us set off up the fairway with a 5 iron in hand.....just in case like

With seven 3 putts on the front 9 I could have done with them holding us up right from the start.
I started holing a few coming home, maybe I was reading the putts a little longer than usual and inadvertently speeding our play up as a result

quinda

Would the following be appropriate, or out of order?

As is normal, winter singles comps are usually played in 3ball groupings. Due to poor weather there were a lot of 2 balls out last weekend, in a 9 hole Winter League comp. Golf was slow, so on 15th tee, we joined up with the two ball ahead, who hadn't actually hit their shots yet. We knew them, and felt it would speed everything up a little for the last 4 holes.

The two ball behind complained strongly after the round, saying we were completely wrong to do what we did, and would have been quicker as two separate 2balls. Even though as a fourball we didn't lose any ground on the last few holes and were still waiting for the group ahead before hiting our tee shots on 18.

I accept 4 ball groups are not appropriate, but given it was a relatively informal winter comp, surely common sense should prevail, especially if yo make sure not to lose ground with the group ahead?

Were we wrong to do what we did, as the member who complained is adamant we were very wrong?

alxmorgan

quinda wrote: »

Would the following be appropriate, or out of order?

As is normal, winter singles comps are usually played in 3ball groupings. Due to poor weather there were a lot of 2 balls out last weekend, in a 9 hole Winter League comp. Golf was slow, so on 15th tee, we joined up with the two ball ahead, who hadn't actually hit their shots yet. We knew them, and felt it would speed everything up a little for the last 4 holes.

The two ball behind complained strongly after the round, saying we were completely wrong to do what we did, and would have been quicker as two separate 2balls. Even though as a fourball we didn't lose any ground on the last few holes and were still waiting for the group ahead before hiting our tee shots on 18.

I accept 4 ball groups are not appropriate, but given it was a relatively informal winter comp, surely common sense should prevail, especially if yo make sure not to lose ground with the group ahead?

Were we wrong to do what we did, as the member who complained is adamant we were very wrong?

Sounds like someone who needs to chill out a bit. If ye didn't lose ground on those in front then what's the difference ?

Some people are just looking for excuses to get pissed off if you ask me.

ShriekingSheet

Yeah, the guys behind sound like they were looking for a scape-goat to blame for their slow day.

I wouldn't complain or be all that bothered if you did it in front of me, but I wouldn't have done it either. There's a reasonable chance play does speed up, and the new fourball will lose ground and hold up othes behind. Breaking back into 2 x 2s would only cause even more hassle.

Even if play stays the same, I'm in no way surprised someone in the groups behind was questioning the fourball, and even getting irked.

For those reasons, I wouldn't bother. With these kind of things, when in doubt, keep it simple.

Seves Three Iron

On a slight aside, I always find that I lose concentration on the particular hole I'm being let through on and make a poor score. It's another reason that scenarios like any of the above pi$$ me off when I see it happening. I just know I'm going to end up speeding up, out of courtesy, to play through and bogey or dbl bogey the hole. And you end up having to thank them for it!

ShriekingSheet

Seves Three Iron wrote: »

On a slight aside, I always find that I lose concentration on the particularly hole I'm being let through on and make a poor score. It's another reason that scenarios like any of the above pi$$ me off when I see it happening. I just know I'm going to end up speeding up, out of courtesy, to play through and bogey or dbl bogey the hole. And you end up having to thank them for it!

I found myself doing that also until the last year or so. I've basically just stopped rushing through out of politeness. No one has batted an eye-lid either. Like, they aren't going to say "aw, we're letting you through and you've the cheek to take out a range finder and make a practice swing". People don't mind at all. You just need to get over feeling like they do. It's the only way to go.

Seves Three Iron

Ah yeah, you're dead right. And I say that to myself every time too and still get distracted! My own fault really.

charlieIRL

Seves Three Iron wrote: »

On a slight aside, I always find that I lose concentration on the particular hole I'm being let through on and make a poor score. It's another reason that scenarios like any of the above pi$$ me off when I see it happening. I just know I'm going to end up speeding up, out of courtesy, to play through and bogey or dbl bogey the hole. And you end up having to thank them for it!

same here, we had a slow group ahead of us the last day we were out and when they let us through i proceeded to slice my drive to the right!! Thankfully hit a decent second shot to make up for it!!

LinksLad

By not talking to newbies, letting them know what's up from the experienced perspective... Exactly how are people expected to intuit that they are expected to behave any other way?

Let them know what the etiquette is, even if means running forward to do so. At least most of us here had the benefit of someone able to spell all that out to us, and in our formative years. Hard to explain it all to someone who has just left the car park.

Build it, and they will come.
Explain it, and they will comprehend.

quinda

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Yeah, the guys behind sound like they were looking for a scape-goat to blame for their slow day.

I wouldn't complain or be all that bothered if you did it in front of me, but I wouldn't have done it either. There's a reasonable chance play does speed up, and the new fourball will lose ground and hold up othes behind. Breaking back into 2 x 2s would only cause even more hassle.

Even if play stays the same, I'm in no way surprised someone in the groups behind was questioning the fourball, and even getting irked.

For those reasons, I wouldn't bother. With these kind of things, when in doubt, keep it simple.

Fair point!

GreeBo

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

I find it best for my own enjoyment/performance to chill out and even try and almost lose ground to them. Take longer reading putts, getting yardages and just play at their pace. If I get a call, I'll shoot through at pace, otherwise, relax and make the best of it.

Doesnt that just make the problem worse for everyone behind you?
You should be right behind the group in front always.

ShriekingSheet

GreeBo wrote: »

Doesnt that just make the problem worse for everyone behind you?
You should be right behind the group in front always.

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

chill out and even try and almost lose ground to them.

.

PARlance

Lose was a Loose term I think

onlyfinewine

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Lose was a Loose term I think

As in almost pregnant?

ShriekingSheet

Chill out and play your game.

Fuss and rush up the a*se of a slow group, and stand with hand on hip on the tee box, eyeballing them.

You decide.

PARlance

Greebo,
It was in the context of us playing behind a slow group, that we had already spent several holes up their h*les
We couldn't get through to ranger and there was no way the group ahead were letting us through, they didn't understand the concept.
Unique circumstance, and I think ShreikingSheet sentiment is correct in that it's less stressful to be waiting 1 minute on the tee rather than waiting 2 mins or more. The pressure was still being applied and the group ahead should still have been letting us through but taking a little extra time on our own shots.
Again, in the context, there was no way they were going to let us through.
I asked at one stage and I could have been talking gibberish to the young lad (before he proceeded to run up the fairway)
I think the sentiment was to keep on the pressure but just reduce the time spent waiting by taking a little more time on our own shots.

Although "lose ground" was used, above is what I took the sentiment of SS's post to be.

onlyfinewine

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Greebo,
It was in the context of us playing behind a slow group, that we had already spent several holes up their h*les
We couldn't get through to ranger and there was no way the group ahead were letting us through, they didn't understand the concept.
Unique circumstance, and I think ShreikingSheet sentiment is correct in that it's less stressful to be waiting 1 minute on the tee rather than waiting 2 mins or more. The pressure was still being applied and the group ahead should still have been letting us through but taking a little extra time on our own shots.
Again, in the context, there was no way they were going to let us through.
I asked at one stage and I could have been talking gibberish to the young lad (before he proceeded to run up the fairway)
I think the sentiment was to keep on the pressure but just reduce the time spent waiting by taking a little more time on our own shots.

Although "lose ground" was used, above is what I took the sentiment of SS's post to be.

He said ALMOST lose ground? So not lose ground but not rush in order to wait on each shot is the message I am getting.;) Must have been some sight to see the lads running and racing about trying to keep ahead. Still not sure why they were not advised about the etiquette prior to being left out on the course?

PARlance

onlyfinewine wrote: »

He said ALMOST lose ground? So not lose ground but not rush in order to wait on each shot is the message I am getting.;) Must have been some sight to see the lads running and racing about trying to keep ahead. Still not sure why they were not advised about the etiquette prior to being left out on the course?

We were talking to the Pro both, before and after, the round. He seems like a nice bloke and has always time/makes an effort to chat to people checking in. He didn't advise us re etiquette, but then again, I've been a visitor on numerous courses and only once on an extremely busy day (in Portmarnock Links) did a starter mention pace of play times to us and I've never been asked/told about letting people through prior to a round.
I don't think it's common practice is it?
Maybe it should, but this was a fairly unique occurrence I feel, 99.9% of golfers I've met would be aware of the etiquette around this and I don't really blame the Pro for not bringing it up.
He would have told us afterwards if he had warned them prior to the round.
It would be very easy for someone that didn't know the etiquette to say they were aware of it. I don't know how a course could ensure this never happened.


I am still laughing at the sight, wasn't far off this at stages

Milkers

ajcurry123 wrote: »

We were talking to the Pro both, before and after, the round. He seems like a nice bloke and has always time/makes an effort to chat to people checking in. He didn't advise us re etiquette, but then again, I've been a visitor on numerous courses and only once on an extremely busy day (in Portmarnock Links) did a starter mention pace of play times to us and I've never been asked/told about letting people through prior to a round.
I don't think it's common practice is it?
Maybe it should, but this was a fairly unique occurrence I feel, 99.9% of golfers I've met would be aware of the etiquette around this and I don't really blame the Pro for not bringing it up.
He would have told us afterwards if he had warned them prior to the round.
It would be very easy for someone that didn't know the etiquette to say they were aware of it. I don't know how a course could ensure this never happened.


I am still laughing at the sight, wasn't far off this at stages

Holy crap that speed golf is unreal. Some guy shot a 65 in 44 minutes? Only rule change is you can leave the pin in when putting it seems. Some of the etiquette goes by the wayside such as replacing divots though I think I did see one guy raking the bunker after his shot.

Arsenium

Sometime staying cool is not that easy :-(

Last summer I had an experience and a half. We were a fourball. Summer evening. Tee off at 4:30. Got to the 5th hole and 2 ladies were behind us. We were putting and they were ready to play onto the green. We went to the next tee and invited them through.

They continued, my playing partners teed off. I teed it up and heard a shout from surely 200 yards back down the previous fairway. "Dont hit that shot" They played another few shots to get to the green (our par 4 green is now clear BTW) and she came over saying "Where did you come from..there's a ladies competition on here today and we will not be stuck behind a 4 ball".

So instead of making a scene we said Come ahead ladies, play through. They came onto the ladies tee box, one sat down and ate a banana while the other regailed her with some witty story or other. As we stood there. Waiting.

Keeping your calm or staying cool is sometimes easier said than done !!! I had one target in mind with my tee shot when I eventually got to play :-)

Mr. Larson

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Chill out and play your game.

Fuss and rush up the a*se of a slow group, and stand with hand on hip on the tee box, eyeballing them.

You decide.

You're kind of implying we all have 5+ hours to spend away every weekend. In the unlikely event I've got feck all on of a Sunday, I'll chill out and play my game. Otherwise it's hand on hip, words with the cuprits or stay at home.

ShriekingSheet

Mr. Larson wrote: »

You're kind of implying we all have 5+ hours to spend away every weekend. In the unlikely event I've got feck all on of a Sunday, I'll chill out and play my game. Otherwise it's hand on hip, words with the cuprits or stay at home.

In any club I know of, the cool thing about (the many) people in your situation is that they all play quite early, and all play quite quickly. I'm not a slow player, but the odd time I play before 9, I would be conscious of ensuring to make my way around the course extra-efficiently, because that's the done thing in the earlier tee times.

Similarly, those with a more leisurely approach to golf (/life) tend to play later on. It's more customary at 12 o'clock that the pace of play might be a bit slower, which suits certain people. So if I tee it up at 12 the odd weeken, I'd again expect this, and play accordingly.

It's about respecting the status quo, in either situation.

If you're on a time schedule, you just need to be wary of the time you book, and even leave margin for (slow play) error. It's not a perfect situation, but it has been thus for years, and will remain.

spacecoyote

I always find shouting furiously & hitting balls in over peoples heads is the most efficient way to speed people up!!!

Pilsbury Doughboy

That speed Golf was very impressive!

onlyfinewine

I see what you mean, certainly it is not something I have come across on a regular basis. Mostly these days you are much more likely to be held up by golfers experienced or otherwise who seem to have an inbuilt pace of play that is dreadfully slow. Only comment I would make is that the web site for the course indicates that handicaps are not required and a little gentle probing at reception should indicate as to whether the players are regulars or beginners with appropriate advice being given if judged necessary prior to play.