7 seater - under €600 tax?

kelbal

The time has come to get the 7 seater. Budget is 10k max.
Will be keeping it for a while. Really can't face the idea of paying 600+ for tax every year. I've been going through all the options, and the only one seems the be the Renault Grand Scenic, coming in at €413 or €513 depending on the model.

Are there any others I'm missing?

OldmanMondeo

Zafira 1.6 petrol? Xsara pissacco (sp)? Most MPV are available in small-ish petrol format, just won't be many out there.

kelbal

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Zafira 1.6 petrol? Xsara pissacco (sp)? Most MPV are available in small-ish petrol format, just won't be many out there.

thanks, hadn't spotted the petrol zafira, think I had only been looking for diesel, and the zafira diesel is 1.9.
The Xsara Picasso doesn't seem to be a 7 seater?

MAJJ

Also consider VW Touran 7 seater 1.9 TDI

kelbal wrote: »

thanks, hadn't spotted the petrol zafira, think I had only been looking for diesel, and the zafira diesel is 1.9.
The Xsara Picasso doesn't seem to be a 7 seater?

OldmanMondeo

kelbal wrote: »

The Xsara Picasso doesn't seem to be a 7 seater?

There is a diesel one, think it is a 1.6hdi, not sure if in your budget. 7 seater is the Grand picasso.

kelbal

MAJJ wrote: »

Also consider VW Touran 7 seater 1.9 TDI

thats €673 tax per year

kelbal

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

There is a diesel one, think it is a 1.6hdi, not sure if in your budget. 7 seater is the Grand picasso.

oh yeah, here's the one.....
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4184736

don't think I'll drive all the way to Clare for that one though:)

thanks

166man

By limiting yourself to €600 road tax you will be missing out on the 1.9/2.0 engines. Many of the MPV's you have mentioned all come with this engine size either petrol or diesel. An engine of this size is necessary in a car of this size and by limiting yourself you are missing out.

I think its strange you would spend so much cash to save a €100 a year.

kelbal

166man wrote: »

By limiting yourself to €600 road tax you will be missing out on the 1.9/2.0 engines. Many of the MPV's you have mentioned all come with this engine size either petrol or diesel. An engine of this size is necessary in a car of this size and by limiting yourself you are missing out.

I think its strange you would spend so much cash to save a €100 a year.

1.9 diesel is €710 - which is up to €300 more expensive than the Grand Scenic for example. Disagree on needing an engine that big - have driven the Scenic and it would do my family fine, and I know of a few people that use it with 3/4 kids. Not looking to keep up with everyone else on the motorway:) Plus the fuel costs will be lower - I know the 1.5/1.6 will have to work a bit harder to keep going - but the fuel costs will still be lower than a 2 litre. Then there's also the reduced insurance - so its not a case of €100 a year to upgrade to a 1.9/2.0

10K is the upper limit, hope to spend about 7 or 8. Am willing to spend a little more to get the right combination of mileage/age so that we get a good few years out of it - but still have to keep an eye on what it will cost us every year to run it.

BostonB

kelbal wrote: »

thats €673 tax per year

I don't get why paying 73 extra is such a big deal. You'll pay that difference in petrol the first couple of months. The only reason to get the petrol is if you want spend less on buying it as the petrol ones are often a lot cheaper to buy and you won't make that difference back in years if you don't do much mileage.

Not sure why tax is the deal breaker here.

alias no.9

What age (height) are your kids? We have a grand scenic and the rearmost seats are of a size that makes them suitable for very agile people between 4'9" and 5'3". Its a 5+2 seater not a 7 seater. The grand Picasso is marginally better, the zafira (both first and second generation) are worse from an accessibility point of view.

kelbal

BostonB wrote: »

I don't get why paying 73 extra is such a big deal. You'll pay that difference in petrol the first couple of months. The only reason to get the petrol is if you want spend less on buying it as the petrol ones are often a lot cheaper to buy and you won't make that difference back in years if you don't do much mileage.

Not sure why tax is the deal breaker here.

It isn't just the tax, maybe should have titled the thread better. The combined tax/fuel consumption/insurance benefits make the likes of the Grand Scenic attractive, I'm just looking for similar alternatives. And I suppose saying 600 is misleading - comparing rates of 413/513 against 673 is worth considering.

Just guessing now, but I'd imagine a 1.5L diesel is at least €400/€500 a year cheaper to run than a 1.9/2.0. But I'm only starting to think about which models to go for - have more research to do.

kelbal

alias no.9 wrote: »

What age (height) are your kids? We have a grand scenic and the rearmost seats are of a size that makes them suitable for very agile people between 4'9" and 5'3". Its a 5+2 seater not a 7 seater. The grand Picasso is marginally better, the zafira (both first and second generation) are worse from an accessibility point of view.

The eldest is 4 - so the back seat should do for a few years. Yeah I'm aware its not a proper 7 seater like the Galaxy, will need to get one of them eventually:rolleyes:

ninty9er

Most of the cars in your price range are small petrol engine options.

Odds on any tax and insurance saving made buying something like a 1.6 petrol Zafira would be swallowed up by the frequent trips to the petrol station. Smaller engines require more effort = higher fuel bills & more careful maintenance required.

I'd look at the likes of this and put the €4k you don't spend towards the tax.
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Renault/Grand-Espace/ESPACE-2/31813540358746060/advert?channel=CARS

alias no.9

kelbal wrote: »

The eldest is 4 - so the back seat should do for a few years. Yeah I'm aware its not a proper 7 seater like the Galaxy, will need to get one of them eventually:rolleyes:

The back row is no good, a 4 year old should be in a high back booster and a high back booster shouldn't be in the back row of a grand scenic, they just don't sit right. Our eldest is 4, no way would I dream of putting him in the back, at a push, he'd be in a high back booster in the front with the airbag switched off and my wife (5'2") in the back row. Even in the middle row, very few high back boosters work well, the outer two seats in the middle row have to be moved fully forward such that the seatbelts don't snag between the headrest of the high back booster and the c pillar causing the seatbelt not to recoil properly after the child leans forward. Get a fiat multipla or a full fat 7 seater.

Pique

Kids, eh.

kelbal

ninty9er wrote: »

I'd look at the likes of this and put the €4k you don't spend towards the tax.
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Renault/Grand-Espace/ESPACE-2/31813540358746060/advert?channel=CARS

might be an option - big mileage on that though, hoping to get about an 06/07 with no more than 70k miles on it

Alias - she's in a high back booster alright, and have seen plenty of others with them in the back, so would have thought it would be ok. I'd obviously be testing for myself how secure all the seats sit in place before buying any car.

thanks for the opinions guys, all helps.

alias no.9

if you're anywhere close to M50 J7 to J9, you're more than welcome to have a look at ours without the pressure of someone trying to make a sale but I really don't think its suitable for your needs

ninty9er

kelbal wrote: »

might be an option - big mileage on that though, hoping to get about an 06/07 with no more than 70k miles on it

Alias - she's in a high back booster alright, and have seen plenty of others with them in the back, so would have thought it would be ok. I'd obviously be testing for myself how secure all the seats sit in place before buying any car.

thanks for the opinions guys, all helps.

There's a low miler 2.2 with full spec that would be my pick, but if all you're after is an A-B mobile it would be a waste.

kelbal

alias no.9 wrote: »

if you're anywhere close to M50 J7 to J9, you're more than welcome to have a look at ours without the pressure of someone trying to make a sale but I really don't think its suitable for your needs

thanks

BostonB

ninty9er wrote: »

...Smaller engines require more effort = higher fuel bills & more careful maintenance required....

I dunno about that. Take the old Touran 1.6 NA engine. No turbo's superchargers, or anything to like that. Compared to the VW TDI's which have a lots of things go wrong with them.

BostonB

alias no.9 wrote: »

The back row is no good, a 4 year old should be in a high back booster and a high back booster shouldn't be in the back row of a grand scenic, they just don't sit right. Our eldest is 4, no way would I dream of putting him in the back, at a push, he'd be in a high back booster in the front with the airbag switched off and my wife (5'2") in the back row. Even in the middle row, very few high back boosters work well, the outer two seats in the middle row have to be moved fully forward such that the seatbelts don't snag between the headrest of the high back booster and the c pillar causing the seatbelt not to recoil properly after the child leans forward. Get a fiat multipla or a full fat 7 seater.

I wonder is that the seats you have. We've had no problem with our high back booster in a Grand scenic. Also fits fine in Touran. The Touran has decent sized 3rd row seats. Fine for most agile adults. Problem is access is awkward, and boot is tiny with 3rd row. Grand Scenic still has some boot. For the lack of boot space they are definately 5+2 not 7 seaters.

BostonB

kelbal wrote: »

It isn't just the tax, maybe should have titled the thread better. The combined tax/fuel consumption/insurance benefits make the likes of the Grand Scenic attractive, I'm just looking for similar alternatives. And I suppose saying 600 is misleading - comparing rates of 413/513 against 673 is worth considering.

Just guessing now, but I'd imagine a 1.5L diesel is at least €400/€500 a year cheaper to run than a 1.9/2.0. But I'm only starting to think about which models to go for - have more research to do.

I would doubt that insurance differs much. When I bought the difference between petrol and diesel was about 6k. and probably about 60~70K less miles on the clock. We do so little mileage it was a no brainer to go for petrol. If I'd had the 6k more in the budget I would have gone for the diesel.

Another thing to consider is holidays, having the petrol adds that bit more to your holiday bill if you do much driving when on holiday.

Another MPV I looked at was the Corolla Verso. At the time I couldn't get a manual one. But worth a look.

5+2 is fine for 3 kids. For 4 I'd be looking at a full 7 seater. For boot space alone.

mullingar

@op, you are far too concerned about the tax price.

Yes,it is not nice, but it is one of the cheapest factors in Irish motoring.

The 2 biggest factors is depreciation and fuel. Buy a car that minimises these two factors and it will probably pay for the tax.

kelbal

mullingar wrote: »

@op, you are far too concerned about the tax price.

Yes,it is not nice, but it is one of the cheapest factors in Irish motoring.

The 2 biggest factors is depreciation and fuel. Buy a car that minimises these two factors and it will probably pay for the tax.

If you read back I did correct myself to say that its a combination of tax/ fuel consumption /insurance, and of course depreciation like you said - overall whats the most economical to run.
Well, seems like the Grand Scenic ticks all the boxes

bbam

kelbal wrote: »

oh yeah, here's the one.....
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4184736

don't think I'll drive all the way to Clare for that one though:)

thanks

We traded in a Zaferia for one of these.
Great car all round.

mullingar

kelbal wrote: »

If you read back I did correct myself to say that its a combination of tax/ fuel consumption /insurance, and of course depreciation like you said - overall whats the most economical to run.
Well, seems like the Grand Scenic ticks all the boxes

Yes you did, but you seem to be like the average Irish driver, transfixed on the tax.

But you are right to buy the one that meets your needs and think like an accountant.

bazz26

Ford S-Max might be worth a look at too. This one is a bit expensive but you get the idea:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Ford/S-Max/TITANIUM-1.8/201250211426767/

alias no.9

BostonB wrote: »

I wonder is that the seats you have. We've had no problem with our high back booster in a Grand scenic. Also fits fine in Touran. The Touran has decent sized 3rd row seats. Fine for most agile adults. Problem is access is awkward, and boot is tiny with 3rd row. Grand Scenic still has some boot. For the lack of boot space they are definately 5+2 not 7 seaters.

Tried a whole range of high back boosters to find ones that wouldn't prevent the seatbelt recoiling, very few work properly in the middle row door seats and at that these seats need to be moved as far forward as they'll go, I'd advise you to check yours, when the child leans forward pulling the seatbelt with them, mack sure it tightens up again when they sit back.
When it was being designed 10 years ago most people moved kids onto booster cushions around 5 years old but nowadays they're supposed to stay in high back boosters till 8 or 9.

BostonB

I'll have to check, but thus far I've never noticed it. I expect because most people (kids included) involuntarily pull/tug on their seat belts almost constantly when they are in the seat, causing the tension to pull the belt back. Bit like a hoover cord.

I notice this before on Nissans we owned. which have a system (in the back only) where if you double tug on a belt, it won't move forward again unless it retracts fully back. So it keeps getting tighter and tighter. Nightmare for baby/childs seats, and also for old people. Who complain constantly about it in our cars.

I've never noticed the seats being slack when the kids are in the car, and usually its their seat gymnastics that has you checking their posture so the belt is in the correct.