Access for Fathers at Christmas?

Bashful

Hi,
My brother is due in court the end of the month with his ex for guardianship of his daughter. He is also looking for assess of her every second Christmas. His ex wouldn't allow him have her the past two years. He is looking to take her Christmas eve and have her for Santa on Christmas morning. He has been so upset this Christmas thinking her will never get to see her face on Christmas morning when she sees what Santa brought her. He has said he doesn't know what he will do if he doesn't get every second Christmas with her. I am really worried about him and was wondering if anyone has gone through this situation? Will a judge grant him every second Christmas with his daughter?

Thanks

Ickle Magoo

Moved from PI.

Hey there,

Moved your thread to parenting as I think you'll get more experienced advice here.

All the best. :cool:

busymom31

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Moved from PI.

Hey there,

Moved your thread to parenting as I think you'll get more experienced advice here.

All the best. :cool:

I know men who have access of this kind and men who dont have any santa access.

Its a pity they cant work it out between them.

A judge would perfer if mediation was entered into first before judgement is made.

Orion

Guardianship is not the same as access - they are two completely different things. Guardianship gives him (unenforced) rights over schooling, medical decisions, passports etc. and will be granted unless there are compelling reasons not to.

What he needs is an access agreement or order. The judge will do what's in the best interest of the child not the parents. If a judge feels that the child would be better off with the mother on Christmas morning then that's what the order will be. However an amicable agreement would be better - with or without mediation.

Sleepy

Could they try be reasonable about it?

My step-son's father stays with us every Christmas Eve. We have a few drinks together, watch some dumb Christmas movies and share the "playing Santa" experience. He crashes on the couch and is there with us to see the kids faces Christmas morning.

Granted, he and my fiancée are still good friends and he's become a good friend of mine at this stage too but even if they didn't get on so well I think I'd still be up for it. You only get so many years of Christmas with Santa visiting the house, seems stupid to waste them...

The Corinthian

As has been pointed out Guardianship and access are separate matters. Also as has been suggested an amicable agreement is by far preferable, as (just like guardianship rights) access rights are essentially unenforced and so this can easily lead to a situation where he turns up to the mother's door on Christmas eve, just to be refused and there's little that will be done about it.

Perhaps approaching the matter by putting the ball in the mother's court (asking her what compromise she might propose) may work? However, at the end of the day, all the cards are in her hands and in Ireland she can refuse or renege on any compromise with little chance of any consequences.

Bashful

Thank you for all the replies. If a judge tells my brother he can take the child every second Christmas can his ex go against the judge and refuse to give the child?

The Corinthian

Bashful wrote: »

If a judge tells my brother he can take the child every second Christmas can his ex go against the judge and refuse to give the child?

Naturally she can.

Enforcement of court orders in family cases is a serious problem in Ireland. The Gardai will simply not want to know unless there is a bench warrant (and even then will make excuses not to pursue it). In the case of mothers breaking court orders, the problem is even more pronounced as Judges will almost never issue a bench warrant, no matter how often the order has been broken. Fines can be imposed, although these too often will not be followed up on. Most of the time, all a mother will likely suffer is a 'talking to' by an effectively impotent judge.

In short, a custodial mother may break an access order in Ireland and fear very little redress.

Bashful

Thanks for your help The Corinthian it was very helpful.

Fromthetrees

I have co guardianship and shared custody of my daughter.

The mother and myself sat down and agreed all the days of who does what all through the Xmas period. With regards to Xmas morning, the mother was to take her Xmas eve and I was to collect my daughter at 10 and drop her back at 12 so I could give her the Santa presents she got, I was to take her Xmas night then around 7 and the mother would take her Stephens day blah blah.

Anyway, 7 o clock on Xmas eve, I had had my daughter until 4 that day, I got a text saying Xmas mornings off but I can take her Xmas night still, then no answers to my calls on Xmas day, rang and texted about 5 times. Then the next day got a call saying I can take her on Stephens night, gurr, that wasn't the plan.

In short, I have as many rights as I can get, she reneged on the plans, and there's fudge all I can do about it I think. I think?

I've adopted a nice passive aggressive stance since and it will last until next Xmas. I'm taking her the 3/4 days that suit me best and I'll be darned if I keep obliging her week holidays and all the other nonsense she has.

Apologies for venting but there might be a small nugget of helpfulness in there somewhere.

meoklmrk91

I don't have kids but just wanted to add my 2 cents. I think that it is really sad that parents who have had relationship break down can't get on for just one day out of the year for the sake of their child and themselves. If I ever was end up in the situation myself I couldn't ever see myself denying my child the chance to spend Xmas with both their parents and my ex the chance to spend Christmas with their kid, unless it was a situation where the ex was a danger to myself or the child. How can some women do this and justify it to themselves, it's so unfair.

LegacyUser

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I don't have kids but just wanted to add my 2 cents. I think that it is really sad that parents who have had relationship break down can't get on for just one day out of the year for the sake of their child and themselves. If I ever was end up in the situation myself I couldn't ever see myself denying my child the chance to spend Xmas with both their parents and my ex the chance to spend Christmas with their kid, unless it was a situation where the ex was a danger to myself or the child. How can some women do this and justify it to themselves, it's so unfair.

It is very easy when you don't have children or have never been in this situation to say parents should just get on for this day. Parenting is about every day of the year and not just Christmas day. Unfortunately in some broken down relationships you just cannot have an amiable relationship. Think domestic violence, drugs, drink, stalking etc.

In my own situation, the absent father hardly bothers to see his child during the year, cancels almost all access but then wants to have the special occasions.........

Some fathers and some mothers simply don't deserve the title of parent.

I will also say that if you spoke to my ex today he would be going on and on about how he is denied access, does not get to see his child, child is used as a pawn etc etc. The reality is that is not bothered about making any effort.

So don't believe everything you hear or be so quick to judge when you have no experience of the situation and are only hearing one side.

Yes there are brillant fathers but there are also "fathers" who want the rights but none of the hard work.

Bashful

Fromthetrees that must have been awful for you I seen how upset my brother was at Christmas he sobbed and felt so upset at the thought of never seeing his daughter on Christmas morning waking up to her toys. My brother loves his daughter so much and never cancels any of the days he has with her unless there is a good reason. I agree with you notalwaysthecase some fathers just don't bother and I think it is the poor kids who suffer.My mother and father are serarated but we are lucky that they are great friends it made it so much easier and I try to explain to my brother that it will be so much better for the child if they get on. They had been getting on until the whole issue of Christmas came up. If my brother asks for any extra time with his daughter and it doesn't suit his ex she will just not reply to his messages won't even text to say no or give a reason. I am not saying my brother is perfect he has his faults and I would be the first to point them out and in fairness she had said he could go over to the house Christmas morning to see his daughter. It is just an awful suitation and sad to think he has many years of this kind of hassle ahead of him. I just hope it all works out ok for them all.

meoklmrk91

Notalwaysthecase wrote: »

It is very easy when you don't have children or have never been in this situation to say parents should just get on for this day. Parenting is about every day of the year and not just Christmas day. Unfortunately in some broken down relationships you just cannot have an amiable relationship. Think domestic violence, drugs, drink, stalking etc.

In my own situation, the absent father hardly bothers to see his child during the year, cancels almost all access but then wants to have the special occasions.........

Some fathers and some mothers simply don't deserve the title of parent.

I will also say that if you spoke to my ex today he would be going on and on about how he is denied access, does not get to see his child, child is used as a pawn etc etc. The reality is that is not bothered about making any effort.

So don't believe everything you hear or be so quick to judge when you have no experience of the situation and are only hearing one side.

Yes there are brillant fathers but there are also "fathers" who want the rights but none of the hard work.

Which is why I stated that if the ex was a danger to myself or my child then it wouldn't be happening.

The Corinthian

Notalwaysthecase wrote: »

So don't believe everything you hear or be so quick to judge when you have no experience of the situation and are only hearing one side.

Indeed. Stories from one side have a tendency to become distorted.

For example, the use of ultimatums is not an unusual tactic. For example, a mother may seek that for access the father must fulfil an unreasonable or even impossible demand; such as breaking up with his (new) girlfriend or that he pays additional money that he cannot afford. When he refuses such a demand, then access is withheld, however her narrative of this becomes edited - it becomes simply that he refused access and the bit about the demand is omitted from the account when she then seeks validation from others.

And while the above example cites a mother, fathers can be just as prone to this.

In the case of Fromthetrees, and taking him at his word, I can see how his situation can easily occur. Mothers hold all the cards, which means that sometimes it need not even be as a result of bad relations, just that she can renege on promises simply because she can. It's hardly surprising that many fathers give up.

iguana

Bashful wrote: »

and in fairness she had said he could go over to the house Christmas morning to see his daughter.

Was that Christmas just gone or is she offering that now for future Christmases? If it was for Christmas just gone why didn't he go?