building regulations not complying

HoofRocks

I'm going to stick my neck out here and ask a stupid question. Stupid because I think ill get shot on here for even.thinking it but sure here goes...

What happens if you build your house and it isn't compliant with current building regulations?

I'm asking because a.friend of mine has recently got planning and aims to start in march. She's having a normal.cavity with blown in insulation. Her heating is going to be zoned fed from a stove with back boiler and oil. No.solar or anything.

Personally were after going to the work of the world to get a ber and try to comply as much as possible with Regs. We've been told oil won't comply. We are at our wits end trying to decide on heating.

So really I just want to know can you 'get away' with not complying or who stops you?

A fella called fish

Who stops you? The professional Engineering/Architectural Consultants you engage to provide a design for your project.

just do it

There is a lack of building control in this country but for me to build a low energy house to regulation levels is a no brainer. The add on renewable bling is another story though. All the new builds around me in the last year have had a standard 100mm cavity so not much has changed :rolleyes:.

homewardbound11

Annoying.
I built mine 18 months ago and received a letter from the council that my build would have regular visits to check compliance with part l. And m etc. My neighbour and frient received nothing. Built away and in the end his build minus airtightness and hrv and solar and expensive room sealed wood stoves managed to save him close to 25 k. Over mine.

Gavin31

I dont think its the case than an oil boiler wont comply, you just have to have a % of your energy usage provided by a renewable/sustainable source e.g solar panels. Therefore an oil boiler and solar panels should suffice.

The Building Control Act 2007 gave the Local Authorities more powers in regards to this so i imagine it would be them that would intervene.

The SEAI and Environ websites are valuable resources for someone in your position.

These are worth reading also:

http://www.constructireland.ie/News/Government/Two-thirds-of-new-homes-fail-energy-efficiency-rules.html

http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/


Just as an aside, Oil is only going to get more expensive, you have a great opportunity to get ahead of the rest and install an alternative to an oil boiler. A Woodchip boiler would save you a fortune, literally. Theres the potential to heat a well insulated house for €200 - €300 a year (and thats overestimating). Just be mindful that woodchip / woodpellets need to be stored and large trucks would need access to the storage area.

archtech

It is against the law not to comply with the relevant building regulations, just as it is against the law to drive without insurance or not comply with any other legislation. Because someone breaks the law and gets away with it doesn't mean that everyone should or has to.

Enforcement of building regulations is a problem all professionals within the industry will admit this. In 20 years I have yet to hear of a case of someone prosecuted for non compliance with building regs.

daver123

My house was certified compliant in december 2010 to 1990 / 1991 building regs / control standard by a fully qualified chartered surveyor, i would say it is around a B energy rating it is a very efficent house, i never got any BER done and i do not intend to.

archtech

daver123 wrote: »

My house was certified compliant in december 2010 to 1990 / 1991 building regs / control standard by a fully qualified chartered surveyor, i would say it is around a B energy rating it is a very efficent house, i never got any BER done and i do not intend to.

As a point of note it is not a requirement under the building regulations to have a BER, however DEAP (the software used to prepare BERs) is the software prescribed to check compliance with Part L of the Building Regulations. If your certifier has not used DEAP to check compliance with Part L, then it is quiet possible that your dwelling does not comply with the building regulations.

BERs have there own independent legislation.

sas

Gavin31 wrote: »

Just as an aside, Oil is only going to get more expensive, you have a great opportunity to get ahead of the rest and install an alternative to an oil boiler. A Woodchip boiler would save you a fortune, literally. Theres the potential to heat a well insulated house for €200 - €300 a year (and thats overestimating). Just be mindful that woodchip / woodpellets need to be stored and large trucks would need access to the storage area.

Couple of thoughts\questions:

1. Oil is going to get more expensive, no one will dispute that. However, we are in a free market and pellets and wood chip may well follow along behind it. They only need to stay cheaper. If you happen to have access to a steady supply of wood and a chipper then fair enough, most of us won't though. It's not as simple as oil will get more expensive so everything else is automatically good value.

2. A good quality wood chip boiler costs how much? I bought a 96% efficient oil burner last July for €1300. I borrowed that money as part of my build so interest will be payable on that amount. I've been told by 1 supplier that a good quality pellet boiler is in the region of 10k.
So that's €8700 more for the boiler. How much are you saying a good quality wood chip or pellet boiler will cost?
I also had to pay for an oil tank but I'd be happy to say that it also would be cheaper than the required pellet\chip storage tank.

3. I paid €435 last July for 500 litres of oil. (I checked 2 weeks ago and could still buy it for that).
1 litre oil is 10 Kwh.
My boiler is 96% efficient so my 500 litres will give me:
10 * 500 * 0.96 = 4800 Kwh

How much would I have to pay for woodchip to produce an equivalent amount of energy?

4. You're comment on getting ahead of the rest is very confusing? There is rarely (if ever) an advantage in being an early adopter. In my opinion woodchip\pellet boilers are the way to go when you can open the phonebook, pick the first plumber out of it and have him service your boiler with confidence.

HoofRocks

sas wrote: »

Couple of thoughts\questions:

2. A good quality wood chip boiler costs how much? I bought a 96% efficient oil burner last July for €1300. I borrowed that money as part of my build so interest will be payable on that amount. I've been told by 1 supplier that a good quality pellet boiler is in the region of 10k.
So that's €8700 more for the boiler. How much are you saying a good quality wood chip or pellet boiler will cost?
I also had to pay for an oil tank but I'd be happy to say that it also would be cheaper than the required pellet\chip storage tank.

.

This was exactly how I was thinking. An oil boiler will set you back 1500. We got a quote for a wood pellet burner for 8 k. I think you would buy a lot of oil for a well insulated house for 6500.

Also.. wood pellet.. what is it made from? it's a by product of wood made from sawdust and wastes from sawmills.. how do you cut down wood using machinery and what do they use?

Being efficient is one thing and I want a good house that is efficient. but being practical is another. and if it comes down to it why should I pay a fortune for all these extras on my home when the person beside me dosn't have to.

HoofRocks

Gavin31 wrote: »

I dont think its the case than an oil boiler wont comply, you just have to have a % of your energy usage provided by a renewable/sustainable source e.g solar panels. Therefore an oil boiler and solar panels should suffice.

.

Thanks Gavin.

We were hoping to have a wood burning stove with back boiler. LVP solar panels and a 97% efficient condensing oil boiler. We also suggested we'd put in dcv or hrv and the house will be insulated to a high standard. BER accessor said it wouldn't comply

sas

HoofRocks wrote: »

Being efficient is one thing and I want a good house that is efficient. but being practical is another. and if it comes down to it why should I pay a fortune for all these extras on my home when the person beside me dosn't have to.

My post was specifically to counter some dubious claims by a specific poster, it wasn't in support of your position.

Some people choose to not tax their car, others do. Both are required to do so.

I did comply with the regs for my home even though I used oil.

If my tax was out on my car, it would sit in the drive until it was paid again. Horses for courses etc.

Gavin31

But in a new build you have to have a % of your energy come from a renewable source. The reason i suggested a Woodchip boiler is that it would eliminate the need to combine an oil boiler with, say, solar panels. So the cost of the panels would need to be factored in.

As far as servicing goes woodchip boilers are far less complicated than oil, An auger taked the chips from storage to your boiler where it is burned, not that complicated at all. Personally i wouldnt go with pellets, i just mentioned it as it is another option.

4800kWh in woodchip would cost you €164, assuming the price is €120/T at 30% moisture content

HoofRocks

Hi Sas

I didn't read it as a support I just agree with what you said.

sas

HoofRocks wrote: »

Thanks Gavin.

We were hoping to have a wood burning stove with back boiler. LVP solar panels and a 97% efficient condensing oil boiler. We also suggested we'd put in dcv or hrv and the house will be insulated to a high standard. BER accessor said it wouldn't comply

Get a second opinion. At the very least as him for what you'd need to tweak to meet the regs.

Be aware that wood buring stoves with boilers that are suitable for an airtight house run in the region of 4 - 5k. It's the final piece in the puzzle for my home and it's driving me nuts whether I need the boiler or not. I can buy a 5kw wood room heater for 1800 - 2500.

sas

Gavin31 wrote: »

But in a new build you have to have a % of your energy come from a renewable source. The reason i suggested a Woodchip boiler is that it would eliminate the need to combine an oil boiler with, say, solar panels. So the cost of the panels would need to be factored in.

That's a fair point.

Gavin31 wrote: »

As far as servicing goes woodchip boilers are far less complicated than oil, An auger taked the chips from storage to your boiler where it is burned, not that complicated at all. Personally i wouldnt go with pellets, i just mentioned it as it is another option.

I can't dispute this but there is no way in hell the average plumber is going to come out and attempt to fix one of these if an issue arises.

Gavin31 wrote: »

4800kWh in woodchip would cost you €164, assuming the price is €120/T at 30% moisture content

You want to provide a little further detail on that please? Different timbers have different energy outputs so I assume the species makes a difference?
Sounds good on paper, I can't dispute that.

Gavin31

Well, the moisture content of the biomass is more important than the species. Short rotation Coppus Willow is the one farmers are being encouraged to grow at the moment, a moisture content of 30% is sufficient and at that, with wood chip, you are getting 3500kWh per tonne.

That said, different boilers do specify different moisture contents to operate at maximum efficiency.

http://www.seai.ie/Renewables/Bioenergy/Bioenergy_Technologies/Wood_Energy_Technologies_and_Technology_Standards/Commercial_Wood_Fuel_Boilers/

http://www.biomassenergycentre.org.uk/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/BEC_TECHNICAL/BEST%20PRACTICE/37821_FOR_BIOMASS_2_LR.PDF