Was David Irvine a British Government agent?

SoulandForm

Im not only one was wondered about this privately.

Its not really disputable now that the Loyalists Paramilitaries had close a "relationship" with certain elements in the British Army and Intelligence community as well as the RUC (though on a much lower level and smaller extent).

David Irvine appears out of nowhere, never having much promenence before supporting the British Government's GFA which was opposed by most Unionists (nearly a majority of Unionists voted against it) and also sprouting very un-Scotch Irish things about gay rights and the glories of multi-culturalism (this particularly was weird given Loyalism's relationship with the UK mainland's hard right including even the likes of Combat 18).

Does anyone else have any views or knowledge about this?

Also in the "Beyond the Graves" tapes Brendan Hughes was brutally honest, even admitting nasty sectarian acts (though haphazardly trying to justify them) while as what David Irvine had to say was very controlled, and false seeming.

Duiske

He didn't really appear out of nowhere. He was a member of the UVF and had the full support of the UVF during his political career, which began after he served 5yrs of an 11yr sentence. He stood for the Progressive Unionist Party, who were basically the UVF, but with suits on.

David Irvine appears out of nowhere, never having much promenence before supporting the British Government's GFA which was opposed by most Unionists (nearly a majority of Unionists voted against it)

I don't get the above. Most Unionists opposed the GFA, but nearly a majority voted against it ? If nearly a majority voted against it, doesn't that mean it was either a 50/50 split, or the majority voted for it ?

SoulandForm

Duiske wrote: »

He didn't really appear out of nowhere. He was a member of the UVF and had the full support of the UVF during his political career, which began after he served 5yrs of an 11yr sentence. He stood for the Progressive Unionist Party, who were basically the UVF, but with suits on.

A pretty unimportant member.

Im talking about the whole emergence of PUP.

SoulandForm

Duiske wrote: »

I don't get the above. Most Unionists opposed the GFA, but nearly a majority voted against it ? If nearly a majority voted against it, doesn't that mean it was either a 50/50 split, or the majority voted for it ?

Sorry mate- its hard to enough if exactly a majority of Unionists voted against it or not. Nearly the whole Nationalist community voted for it.

Im against the GFA- but I understand why people voted for it at the time.

3ndahalfof6

What would he gain.

SoulandForm

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

What would he gain.

Who knows?

Certainly the British state had a lot to gain.

Im someone who believes that the majority of the Provo campaign was misguided or wrong.

However the activity of the Loyalist Paramilitaries will always be a black mark on my community for a long time to come. People who support random sectarian murder (the Provos occasionally did the same but mostly they didnt) are not New Labour liberals.

Duiske

SoulandForm wrote: »

A pretty unimportant member.

Im talking about the whole emergence of PUP.

Everyone could see the way "the war" was playing out in the North. Militant Republicanism, for the most part, had their voice heard through Sinn Fein, so it was only natural that the UVF would want their say. They got that through the PUP, and it was the PUP's reason for being. Everybody knew what and who the PUP represented. Irvine himself had lots of things going for him. Intelligent, great communicator and likeable. Maybe that's the reason he was chosen as the public face of UVF/PUP, rather than him being a British agent or whatever.
That said, it was murky time back then so who knows ?

SoulandForm

For the British State I believe that Northern Ireland is a controllable lab.

Things will only really change for the better until the sectarian divide is broken and both tribes drive them out of Ireland.

But the ideals of the United Irishmen and the Fenians are far most people's minds on both sides.

Living in Northern Ireland feels like living as a rat in a maze.

stuar

For some strange reason I somehow thought he was a bonifide person, although on the other side of my younger political feelings, but I genuinely saw him as a straight talking prod.

A government agent he probably was, so were half of the provo leadership, so no surprise if he was.

Dynamo Roller1

I always thought the whole provo organisation was comprised after the early 70's

Torakx

Dynamo Roller1 wrote: »

I always thought the whole provo organisation was comprised after the early 70's

Or maybe even before they started ^^

ktm

Interesting, at the time I had heard more than once people refer to him as a plant or British agent. The people who told me that would have SF ties, so weather that was just the rumour mill at the time doing the rounds I dont know.

In my own opinion, agent/plant or not , whatever his motivation was , he worked hard for a peaceful solution, came across well as a spokesman for loyalists , and seemed to be somebody who was level headed and reasonable.

Maybe to some he appeared to "friendly" and the rumours came from within his own camp.

I dont know but I do think he is a loss to politics on this Island. Seemed like a decent/nice sort of man too!
RIP Mr Irvine.