Bank transferring money between accounts without my consent

Peanut007

Hi,
I have 2 bank accounts with UB, one of them had funds in it today and the other went overdrawn without permission due to 2 direct debits being presented. I emailed the bank (as they'd left me a voicemail asking me to rectify the situation) and I told them to bounce the payments if they felt it necessary, I'd pay my insurance and ESB next week when I had the funds. However I just logged in to my online banking and I see that they have moved €800 from the account that had the €800 available to the account that went overdrawn, without my written or verbal consent. I'm pretty furious right now, I had a few people to sort out tomorrow for jobs they did for me over Christmas and I can't now as I'm cash strapped again. Surely the bank is way out of line doing this?

BuffyBot

Alas no, they aren't.

As a side note I'd never email an instruction either as they generally will not action email instructions for security reasons.

Peanut007

BuffyBot wrote: »

Alas no, they aren't.

As a side note I'd never email an instruction either as they generally will not action email instructions for security reasons.

Thanks for the reply. I'll raise it with the financial ombudsman anyway just to see. I see it as an act of war!

chris85

Peanut007 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I'll raise it with the financial ombudsman anyway just to see. I see it as an act of war!

Financial ombudsman wont listen to you till you have exhausted the complaint process with the bank.

Cushie Butterfield

Just because it would have suited you for them to bounce something doesn't mean they will or should, as the funds were available albeit in another account.

It's probably states in the T&Cs of your account that they can offset funds from one account to the other. Either way they didn't feel it necessary to bounce the direct debit. If you haven't made prior arrangements with them to take account payment instructions by email they won't.

Even if you had prior arrangements you can't instruct them to bounce direct debits on an adhoc basis - you would have to instruct them to cancel the direct debit altogether, or not to pay it as you are in a dispute with the originator regarding the amount, which clearly wasn't the case here. Again, this would all be in the T&Cs of your account.

GerardKeating

Peanut007 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I'll raise it with the financial ombudsman anyway just to see. I see it as an act of war!

somewhere, deep in small print, when you opened the accounts you agreed to this...

tony81

A few years ago banks changed their procedure re bouncing payments. They tend not to do it now unless absolutely necessary.

It's probably in the T&Cs that they can either debit an account with funds, or just charge an unauthorised overdraft rate.

It's funny you're acting so indignant that they debited an account without your consent.. Fact is you set up the debit instructions on an account without sufficient funds or an authorised overdraft.

Regarding the email, banks only accept email instructions if previously agreed in writing.

tony81

From T&Cs:

8.4 If your Account becomes overdrawn without our prior consent You will be responsible for any debt, including any irregular Account charge, any surcharge interest and any debit interest.

8.5 Liabilities on overdrawn Accounts may, at any time after a request for repayment or the giving of notice to You, be set-off against other Accounts in your name

2.3 However, if at any time such transactions would result, without prior arrangement, in the Account being overdrawn or the agreed overdraft limit being exceeded, We may exercise our sole discretion and without contacting You, allow an overdraft to be created or allow the borrowing limit to be exceeded. In these circumstances, the new or excess overdraft is an unarranged overdraft. We may also at our discretion refuse to pay a cheque, or allow any other payment or withdrawal, which would create an unauthorised overdraft or exceed any agreed or automatic overdraft limit on the Account

unclebill98

Peanut007 wrote: »

Hi,
I have 2 bank accounts with UB, one of them had funds in it today and the other went overdrawn without permission due to 2 direct debits being presented. I emailed the bank (as they'd left me a voicemail asking me to rectify the situation) and I told them to bounce the payments if they felt it necessary, I'd pay my insurance and ESB next week when I had the funds. However I just logged in to my online banking and I see that they have moved €800 from the account that had the €800 available to the account that went overdrawn, without my written or verbal consent. I'm pretty furious right now, I had a few people to sort out tomorrow for jobs they did for me over Christmas and I can't now as I'm cash strapped again. Surely the bank is way out of line doing this?

I take it your a business customer?

skippy2

We moved one account with our cash in hand to another bank not dealing with our loans to avoid such an issue as the OP has found himself in.
I would suggest anyone in a similar situation with a loan in a bank to move their cash to another bank so this cannot happen should things start to go wrong. Keep your loan account and cash separate especially in the present climate, banks will look after themselves first always and we never read the small print until its too late

Peanut007

skippy2 wrote: »

We moved one account with our cash in hand to another bank not dealing with our loans to avoid such an issue as the OP has found himself in.
I would suggest anyone in a similar situation with a loan in a bank to move their cash to another bank so this cannot happen should things start to go wrong. Keep your loan account and cash separate especially in the present climate, banks will look after themselves first always and we never read the small print until its too late

Excellent advice Skippy2, the wheels are in motion. I'm off the high horse now, thanks to everyone for giving me the perspective I needed. Perhaps I was a little hot under the collar at the time of posting, it was in the wee small hours, I worked everyday over Christmas and wanted to pay my staff today for their extra hours on St Stephens day and New Years Day. This Morning was my first day off since about Dec 20. Felt bad that I was unable to honour this from my own endeavors, considering I did the work and all, but was able to borrow from another source to save face. In answer to an earlier question yes it was taken from business account and put into joint personal account. But it is a game changer....cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

tony81

Peanut007 wrote: »

yes it was taken from business account and put into joint personal account.

Is your business a limited company? If so, it's best to change the account name to reflect this if it's currently in your personal name.

I've seen a few individuals using bank accounts called (something like) "AN Other" when in fact the account is used exclusively for their business "AN Other Ltd".

This will create problems if the company gets into financial difficulty, as the bank can legally take money out of the individual's private account.

However if the business account was in the correct name (AN Other Ltd), it would not be legal for the bank to transfer money as the company is a separate legal entity.

I don't work in a bank but I doubt banks have the resources to deal with requests like "can you bounce this payment, not that one, but if the phone-bill comes out can you bounce it instead".. it's just not practical.