Anyone see the chem trails this evening?

eviltimeban

I'm not really a believer in them, but this evening over my house (Dublin coast) there was a grid of about 3 / 4 lines each way. Was REALLY weird. Could see loads more trails when looking south as well.

Jonny7

eviltimeban wrote: »

I'm not really a believer in them, but this evening over my house (Dublin coast) there was a grid of about 3 / 4 lines each way. Was REALLY weird. Could see loads more trails when looking south as well.

My entire life I've seen these. In fact, I saw some yesterday whilst driving and thought to myself, wow, there are actually people out there who think that because they hang in the air the aircraft must be "spraying" something. Extraordinary really, but there you go.

Just to clarify, they are contrails from jet aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

eviltimeban

Ah yeah I know what contrails are, I think what people go on about is when they take that grid format... I've lived here all my life but have never seen the trails in that kind of pattern before. We don't normally have such heavy international traffic passing over us.

youtube!

Put it like this, if you were an airline pilot,dont you think you would be pretty fussy that your jet fuel contained only jet fuel? I dont buy this chem trail thing one little bit. Also the pilots have their own families so they are hardly gonna piss down toxic chemicals on them now are they?

Jonny7

eviltimeban wrote: »

Ah yeah I know what contrails are, I think what people go on about is when they take that grid format... I've lived here all my life but have never seen the trails in that kind of pattern before. We don't normally have such heavy international traffic passing over us.

I'm not sure this is the best forum to find info on heavier air traffic or flight patterns.

Brown Bomber

eviltimeban wrote: »

I'm not really a believer in them, but this evening over my house (Dublin coast) there was a grid of about 3 / 4 lines each way. Was REALLY weird. Could see loads more trails when looking south as well.

Hi,
Do you mean something a little like this?

JustinDee

It's air traffic. Plain and simple.
There's a very good app in iTunes Store called flightradar24 if you want to actually find out what any flight is, where its going and even it's flightplan.
No mystery at all.

eviltimeban

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Hi,
Do you mean something a little like this?

That's exactly it. I've just never seen them cris-cross like that before. Anyway, case closed! :-)

Calibos

Theres virtual motorways in the sky with multiple lanes. Theres crossroads. Air traffic control direct the traffic.

You just don't see the likes of the photo above often because the contrails of one plane have usually dissapated before the next plane passes. Occasionally though, weather conditions such as temperature, humidity or high altitude wind speeds etc let the contrails hang around longer. Long enough for a few more planes to pass through that airspace and leave their own contrails.

I am constantly baffled by the CT'ers mindset.

stuar

Yes rusulting in chem-traills, even the obvious is bad coming down on us, the bad is worse, and even filled with only known toxins its still bad, and un-known toxins kick it up a little, unknown toxins seem worse in your mind and known ones can hurt your lungs, while the unknown keep us thinking and the known we know, thats all I know bout chem trails.

Seek the Truth, I Don't Know..

Brown Bomber

Calibos wrote: »

Theres virtual motorways in the sky with multiple lanes. Theres crossroads. Air traffic control direct the traffic.

You just don't see the likes of the photo above often because the contrails of one plane have usually dissapated before the next plane passes. Occasionally though, weather conditions such as temperature, humidity or high altitude wind speeds etc let the contrails hang around longer. Long enough for a few more planes to pass through that airspace and leave their own contrails.

I am constantly baffled by the CT'ers mindset.

that's a little harsh. He was only asking because he was curious about something he hadn't observed before. This is healthy surely?

Anyway, since you are so confident in what you say how about a little challenge?

It should be easy enough for you to predict the next time this will happen based on "weather conditions such as temperature, humidity or high altitude wind speeds etc " on the Dublin coast so you can come back on and the OP can look out his window and we can see if you were right.

Pottler

Oh look. Man made clouds. Millions of kilometers of them every day. Trap the suns heat, as it happens, but obviously, they have nothing at all to do with global warming.....or anything. Anyone know how wide a contrail "cloud" drifts to? Kilometers as it happens, by hundreds of kilometers long. It's sort of a greenhouse effect, but I've heard that phrase before somwhere. Never discussed though, which is odd, seeing as they're so visible.

gutteruu

What do people think they spread, just out of interest?

(Disclaimer: I think your mad)

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

that's a little harsh. He was only asking because he was curious about something he hadn't observed before. This is healthy surely?

There's a difference between asking about something he'd never seen before and immediately thinking that they could be chemtrails.
That's not a good thought process.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Anyway, since you are so confident in what you say how about a little challenge?

It should be easy enough for you to predict the next time this will happen based on "weather conditions such as temperature, humidity or high altitude wind speeds etc " on the Dublin coast so you can come back on and the OP can look out his window and we can see if you were right.

Do you really think that's a fair challenge?
Do you think just because someone understands the basic physics of how contrails work (and thus understand why the conspiracy theory is stupid) that means that they are an expert capable of making such a prediction?
Do you think that if he isn't able to make such a prediction that the conspiracy is less nonsensical?

Would it be reasonable to demand similar of the OP and ask him to predict the next chemtrail attack?

gutteruu

gutteruu wrote: »

What do people think they spread, just out of interest?

(Disclaimer: I think your mad)

Some conspiracy theorists think that they are spraying us with chemicals that have a variety of effects from dumbing us down, to robbing us of our natural psychic powers to causing diseases including Morgellons disease.

Another notion is that they are purposefully altering the environment for some reason, perhaps because they wish to stop climate change, or that they wish to make Earth more habitable for their reptilian masters.

There's no singular or set motivation suggested. And there's none that make sense.

gutteruu

King Mob wrote: »

Some conspiracy theorists think that they are spraying us with chemicals that have a variety of effects from dumbing us down, to robbing us of our natural psychic powers to causing diseases including Morgellons disease.

lmao! I love the morgellons one! So the governement are spending millions in a huge secretive attempt to give everyone an imaginery itch!

stuar

I have a few apps on my iphone, I'll join in, but the thing that always gets me for the past while is while things are the same here, they aren't the same up there, even planes in the same sky, I've seen a trans-atlantic come between 2, one above, one below, anybody in dublin can also see this, the one a few hundred feet above or below give off theses trails and the one inbetwen does not, I'm not ignorant of the science behind it all, but over Dublin on a clear day/morning I've seen two trailers at different altitude with trails going east to west, europe to US, and a plane from north to south with no trails below or above while definately within the 2 trails?

BTW in the morning there is a flurry of east to west over Dublin, they tail each other on course to US, what I'm saying can be seen by everybody iphones or not, just some planes do and some planes don't, then we have a formation of cirrus clouds that make the blue sky grey.

thebman

Brown Bomber wrote: »

It should be easy enough for you to predict the next time this will happen based on "weather conditions such as temperature, humidity or high altitude wind speeds etc " on the Dublin coast so you can come back on and the OP can look out his window and we can see if you were right.

You do know weather is a chaotic system so maybe not so easy...

Brown Bomber

gutteruu wrote: »

What do people think they spread, just out of interest?

(Disclaimer: I think your mad)

???
What do you think a disclaimer is, just óut of interest?

Brown Bomber

thebman wrote: »

You do know weather is a chaotic system so maybe not so easy...

true, but should be possible to some extent to forecast it though.

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

There's a difference between asking about something he'd never seen before and immediately thinking that they could be chemtrails.
That's not a good thought process.

You are getting caught up in the jargon. He says he doesn't really believe in chemtrails and then goes on to refer to them exclusively as "trails" in the main body of the text, so don't exaggerate.

King Mob wrote: »

Do you really think that's a fair challenge?

Yes.

King Mob wrote: »

Would it be reasonable to demand similar of the OP and ask him to predict the next chemtrail attack?

No, That'd be stupid.

Captain Chaos

Brown Bomber wrote: »

true, but should be possible to some extent to forecast it though.

No because as the weather changes so do flight routes patterns and altitudes. They are both elements with many variables. A weather system can force flights to higher or lower altitudes where the contrails may or may not form.

On cold clam clear days you will see more than usual over the regular flight paths though as those conditions help in forming and actually seeing contrails from the ground.

Brown Bomber

Captain Chaos wrote: »

No because as the weather changes so do flight routes patterns and altitudes. They are both elements with many variables. A weather system can force flights to higher or lower altitudes where the contrails may or may not form.

On cold clam clear days you will see more than usual over the regular flight paths though as those conditions help in forming and actually seeing contrails from the ground.

Okay. Then all someone has to do is document the various factors that lead to the grid pattern in the sky over his house today and wait for it to be repeated and we should then see the same grid pattern again more or less.

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You are getting caught up in the jargon. He says he doesn't really believe in chemtrails and then goes on to refer to them exclusively as "trails" in the main body of the text, so don't exaggerate.

And were did I say he did believe it?
I was referring to even thinking such a ludicrous, asinine and unscientific theory was reasonable because you saw something you couldn't figure out.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yes.

But it's not. I made several points about this which you left out because you couldn't address them.

Do you think just because someone understands the basic physics of how contrails work (and thus understand why the conspiracy theory is stupid) that means that they are an expert capable of making such a prediction?
Do you think that if he isn't able to make such a prediction that the conspiracy is less nonsensical?

Please answer them.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No, That'd be stupid.

Why? Because it would be dishonest to expect someone who doesn't claim the necessary expertise to make such a prediction?

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

And were did I say he did believe it?
I was referring to even thinking such a ludicrous, asinine and unscientific theory was reasonable because you saw something you couldn't figure out.

But it's not. I made several points about this which you left out because you couldn't address them.

Please answer them.

Why? Because it would be dishonest to expect someone who doesn't claim the necessary expertise to make such a prediction?

Here is an opportunity for "debunkers" to actually do some debunking and they apparently turn it down. Enough said.

stuar

Well the US govt been doing it for a long time now, private companies also at it.........
It's a science of sorts,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification

http://www.weathermodification.com

Weather modification is one reason, especially over Ireland and Atlantic....because of this;



Trying to play God maybe and experiment on us and nature at once.

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Here is an opportunity for "debunkers" to actually do some debunking and they apparently turn it down. Enough said.

No, I think it's you clinging to a very dishonest point. Which is why you've not responded to any of my points.

Let's try this again:
Does simply knowing how the basic physics of contrails work (ie. knowing that they are caused and effected by air pressure) mean that a person would then also be able to predict the next occurrence accurately?
If not, why did you say earlier that a person would?
If no, why then would it be unreasonable to ask a person who just thinks that chemtrails are plausible to make a similar prediction?

Then assuming you can provide an answer for these questions (but I sense you are going to ignore them again), then please explain what information we could use to predict these contrail, where to get that information and how we apply it to construct the model we'd need to predict them.
I ask you this cause you too know the basic physics for the explanation of chemtrails as well as I and Calibros, so you then should have no issue showing us how it's done, and maybe even actually doing research to back up a conspiracy...

stuar

stuar wrote: »

Well the US govt been doing it for a long time now, private companies also at it.........
It's a science of sorts,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification

http://www.weathermodification.com

And has been explained many time on these threads and to you directly, weather modification generally refers to stuff like could seeding.

There is no technique of weather modification currently in use that resembles chemtrails, and there is zero evidence or reasoning to go the other way and conclude that chemtrails must be weather modification.

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

No, I think it's you clinging to a very dishonest point. Which is why you've not responded to any of my points.

Will you ever give it rest with the dishonesty nonsense.

If grid like formations of contrails = factor X, factor Y and factor Z then factor X, factor Y and factor Z = grid like formations of contrails,

And therefore can be predicted within reason.

[QUOTE=King Mob;82483069Let's try this again:[/QUOTE]
Let's not. I've laid down a challenge to put this to bed once and for all. Take it up if you want and do some debunking.

stuar

King Mob wrote: »

And has been explained many time on these threads and to you directly, weather modification generally refers to stuff like could seeding.

There is no technique of weather modification currently in use that resembles chemtrails, and there is zero evidence or reasoning to go the other way and conclude that chemtrails must be weather modification.

I was only pointing out to the brother that spraying from the sky is a known science, just incase he wasn't aware, like your daddy wasn't aware in the 1950's when this practice started.

Things move on, what was yesterday is now, what is now is tomorrow, theres method to the madness, you really think they just stopped?, why stop and why tell us what they are up to now?

Experiments must continue.

Give me one reason why they shouldn't continue with their experiments, on us and nature?, doesn't make sense to stop.

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Will you ever give it rest with the dishonesty nonsense.

Sure, if you stop being dishonest.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

If grid like formations of contrails = factor X, factor Y and factor Z then factor X, factor Y and factor Z = grid like formations of contrails,

And therefore can be predicted within reason.

Except that simply knowing the basic physics of what creates a chemtrail does not mean that a person would know all of those factors. Nor would they know were to find or get the exact measurements of those factors if they knew the needed ones. Nor would they know what to do with those measurements if they could find them.
And then there's factors outside the physics you'd have to know, such as the exact flightpaths used.

You have the same basic knowledge as the rest of us, can you provide the factors you want?

We can give you a basic guess. Which has been been given, which surprisingly you ignored.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

On cold clam clear days you will see more than usual over the regular flight paths though as those conditions help in forming and actually seeing contrails from the ground.

So next time it's a clear calm day when it's relatively busy at the airport, there's a good chance he'll see the same thing.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Let's not.

Because you cannot address the points.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've laid down a challenge to put this to bed once and for all. Take it up if you want and do some debunking.

And as I've been explaining, and you've been ignoring, is that your challenge is unreasonable.
It's as unreasonable as demanding the OP make a similar prediction.
Again, you know that, and why it's unreasonable but you won't explain why because it also shows your challenge to be unreasonable.

And why can't you take up your own challenge and prove a conspiracy?

stuar

stuar wrote: »

I was only pointing out to the brother that spraying from the sky is a known science, just incase he wasn't aware, like your daddy wasn't aware in the 1950's when this practice started.

But the spraying they do during cloud seeding is not anything like any of the reported characteristics of chemtrailing.

stuar

King Mob wrote: »

But the spraying they do during cloud seeding is not anything like any of the reported characteristics of chemtrailing.

No it's not, correct.

Can you please tell me when they stopped experimenting with weather and humans, I'm sure you are aware of past experiments when the public was not aware, are you saying they just stopped or you don't know?

stuar

stuar wrote: »

No it's not, correct.

Yes it is. The processes are entirely different. Please point to a single example of a company offering a service that looks like chemtrailing.

stuar wrote: »

Can you please tell me when they stopped experimenting with weather and humans, I'm sure you are aware of past experiments when the public was not aware, are you saying they just stopped or you don't know?

This part is incoherent, please rephrase it.

eviltimeban

What I have started?!?

I don't really "believe" in chemtrails, but the whole point of these conspiracy theories is that they are kind of fun and you don't REALLY believe them - its more "what if"? And I've seen so much about "chemtrails" in various media and from various figures that as soon as I saw the sky it was the first thing I thought!

And I was right to still refer to them as "trails", as in "contrails".

Pottler

gutteruu wrote: »

What do people think they spread, just out of interest?

(Disclaimer: I think your mad)

Nothing, they're just contrails from jet engines. I think the warming of the atmosphere through the greenhouse effect is just a crappy byproduct of using jets. It's probably going to feck up the worlds temperature regulation systems, but i don't think it's a conspiracy. I think the conspiracy is the fact it is never discussed. Not even on this thread.

Brown Bomber

eviltimeban wrote: »

What I have started?!?

I don't really "believe" in chemtrails, but the whole point of these conspiracy theories is that they are kind of fun and you don't REALLY believe them - its more "what if"? And I've seen so much about "chemtrails" in various media and from various figures that as soon as I saw the sky it was the first thing I thought!

And I was right to still refer to them as "trails", as in "contrails".

You really shouldn't have to explain yourself. It should be clear to anyone reading your question what you meant. You used what you thought would be forum specific jargon. How were you to know that the forum would be overrun with people who are actually militantly anti-conspiracy theories?

Welcome to the forum btw and apologies for the hostile reception you've received here from literally the first response you got. Must be a great advertisement for others thinking of starting there first thread here.

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

Sure, if you stop being dishonest.

:rolleyes: Give it a rest will ya? It's getting boring.

You want to have it both ways. If the answer to the OP is that these trails are caused by A, B and C then the person making the claim must be aware of A, B and C otherwise they couldn't make this claim could they?

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

:rolleyes: Give it a rest will ya? It's getting boring.

So is you dodging questions you are unable to answer honestly, but hey....

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You want to have it both ways. If the answer to the OP is that these trails are caused by A, B and C then the person making the claim must be aware of A, B and C otherwise they couldn't make this claim could they?

But again as I have explained, to provide what you are looking for, the person requires an expert level of knowledge. However you do not require that level of knowledge to understand how contrails can form and how the environment influences them.

Your challenge is unreasonable. You know it's unreasonable as you reject the exact same challenge when it's turned around.

eviltimeban

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You really shouldn't have to explain yourself. It should be clear to anyone reading your question what you meant. You used what you thought would be forum specific jargon. How were you to know that the forum would be overrun with people who are actually militantly anti-conspiracy theories?

Welcome to the forum btw and apologies for the hostile reception you've received here from literally the first response you got. Must be a great advertisement for others thinking of starting there first thread here.

Ah its grand, thanks. I'm used to Boards!

Gingko

Just like to say that I have noticed differences in our skies since growing up in the 70's and 80's. Most noticeably some not all of the trails do tend to stay visible longer and yes they do spread out more?

Are there any further logical explanations for this? Is something been added to the fuel to make it more economical and does not have downsides for our ecology? Or are the jet outflows (not correct term) shaped differently now?

I agree the chemtrail idea seems ridiculous? Too big a conspiracy to pull off.

endacl

I totally believe in chemtrails. Hydrogen is a chemical element. As is oxygen. The skies are full of evil airplanes spreading these vile H2O chemtrails out the back of their engines. We're totally fecked here in Ireland if evil governments start dropping H2O out of the sky on our heads. Who knows where it could all lead?

Gingko

Received emails from people working in both meteorology and aviation here in Ireland. This is what they had to say..

Meteorologist reply:
"cool air masses have been occurring with increased frequency since May 2007, and have lasted longer, as the last few summers will testify too! Contrails tend to last longer in cool, trough conditions because the upper air moister content tends to be relatively high. Contrails will more readily dissipate when there is a strong upper ridge of high pressure because the air tends to be drier and more stable (divergence) and strong upper ridges is something we have not seen a whole lot of over the last few years."

Aviation guy reply:
"Different jets do leave different shapes of controls due to the number of engines, wing aerodynamics, etc., but the physics involved is the same for all of them - a delicate balance of upper temperature, humidity and winds. With higher humidity levels and slacker winds we get contrails lasting much longer than in other conditions. Most of the time contrails do not form at all or dissipate instantly once formed, as upper humidity and/or temperature is not right. With an approaching upper ridge, however, cirrus cloud generally increases as the upper humidity levels are higher. This is where we also find the longest-lasting contrails.

The reason you think they have changed is the same as why we think that summers were much better when we were kids. The data don't back up our observations but we hear others saying the same thing and we start to believe it ourselves. When asked to produce evidence that a certain contrail is something more sinister these conspiracy theorists invariably resort to some phony video of someone claiming a contrail is a chemtrail. They are unable to back up their theories with scientific evidence and instead rely on the gullibility of others who fail to question their theories or maybe just want to believe them."

Brown Bomber

Freedom of Information requests reveal that there was a secret government programme of spraying US (poor) civilians with chemicals in bioweapons trials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP0dZ_hvrWM

This follow up concerns a former chemically-sprayed resident whose mother died of cancer, had siblings die in infancy and another born with downs syndrome who is suing a government contractor involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9kHfiyZOgA