Illegal immigration

RandomName2

This isn't a rhetorical question or soapboxing:

People from outside the EU, in this country, who are non-naturalised and are working in low level jobs (like labouring or driving) and are not in education: are they almost universally illegally residing in this country?

I'm specifically asking about low-level work because most work of this kind is excluded from work permits.

JustinDee

RandomName2 wrote: »

This isn't a rhetorical question or soapboxing:

People from outside the EU, in this country, who are non-naturalised and are working in low level jobs (like labouring or driving) and are not in education: are they almost universally illegally residing in this country?

I'm specifically asking about low-level work because most work of this kind is excluded from work permits.

If they have residency or work visa then no, they're not illegal.
Obviously.

juan.kerr

JustinDee wrote: »

If they have residency or work visa then no, they're not illegal.
Obviously.

Where did the OP say they have residency or a work visa?

I understand that people here on student visas are entitled to work a certain number of hours, whether they exceed the hours or are really enroled in education is a different matter.

JustinDee

juan.kerr wrote: »

Where did the OP say they have residency or a work visa?

Easy tiger. I was stating the obvious ie that anyone without permit or appropriate residency status and is working is doing so illegally. Obvious answer for such a question.

juan.kerr

JustinDee wrote: »

Easy tiger. I was stating the obvious ie that anyone without permit or appropriate residency status and is working is doing so illegally. Obvious answer for such a question.

So they are illegal?

JustinDee

juan.kerr wrote: »

So they are illegal?

Read the 'OP' again yourself.
"Non-naturalised" does not mean illegally residing.
Any resident working outside the conditions of their residency or visitor status does so illegally. Otherwise, fine.
Clearer?

juan.kerr

JustinDee wrote: »

Read the 'OP' again yourself.
"Non-naturalised" does not mean illegally residing.
Any resident working outside the conditions of their residency or visitor status does so illegally. Otherwise, fine.
Clearer?

Thanks for clearing that up.

RandomName2

JustinDee wrote: »

If they have residency or work visa then no, they're not illegal.
Obviously.

Well they wouldn't have work visas/permits as work visas/ permits exclude

Clerical and administrative staff
General operatives and labourers
Operator and production staff
Retail sales staff, sales representatives and supervisory or specialist sales staff
Drivers - from 1 June 2009 this includes HGV drivers
Nursery/crèche workers, child minders/nannies
Hotel, tourism and catering staff except chefs
The following craft workers and apprentice/trainee craft workers: bookbinders, bricklayers, cabinet makers, carpenters/joiners, carton makers, fitters - construction plant, electricians, instrumentation craftspeople, fitters, tilers - floor/wall, mechanics - heavy vehicles, instrumentation craftspersons, metal fabricators, mechanics - motor, originators, painters and decorators, plumbers, printers, engineers - refrigeration, sheet metal workers, tool makers, vehicle body repairers, machinists - wood, plasterers and welders
Domestic workers including carers in the home and childminders (for work permit applications received on or after 1 June 2009)
Work riders -horseracing - (for work permit applications received on or after 1 June 2009)

So how how would a full-time taxi-driver from Turkey or a building labourer from the Philippines be legally residing here?

Death and Taxes

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well they wouldn't have work visas/permits as work visas/ permits exclude



So how how would a full-time taxi-driver from Turkey or a building labourer from the Philippines be legally residing here?

Perhaps their wives are nurses, doctors etc and they have residency / right to work based on that.
I know one Turkish barman whose wife is Irish , though he himself has never been naturalized.

Noel Kinsella

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Perhaps their wives are nurses, doctors etc and they have residency / right to work based on that.
I know one Turkish barman whose wife is Irish , though he himself has never been naturalized.

Or Perhaps they are illegal ? Are there NO illegal immigrants in this country in your opinion ? Every time I see a post on Immigrants or Racism you are there I am starting to wonder why you fight so hard on these issues what is your agenda ? All the other "Business people" on here seem to be busy earning a living and getting through the recession and not obsessed with these issues. Interesting very very interesting. Please explain..........................

JustinDee

RandomName2 wrote: »

So how how would a full-time taxi-driver from Turkey or a building labourer from the Philippines be legally residing here?

To answer this obviously loaded question, you'll have to specify if you have anyone in mind in particular. Or are you willing to generalise that no immigrant from outside the EU, be they Philipinos, Turkish or American could have qualified for residency via marriage, birth or educational status?

As someone else pointed out, there are illegals as in other countries or as in Irish residing in other countries. Wouldn't be anything but disingenuous to tar all immigrants with same brush though. Thankfully the majority of us dont.

Death and Taxes

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

Or Perhaps they are illegal ? Are there NO illegal immigrants in this country in your opinion ? Every time I see a post on Immigrants or Racism you are there I am starting to wonder why you fight so hard on these issues what is your agenda ? All the other "Business people" on here seem to be busy earning a living and getting through the recession and not obsessed with these issues. Interesting very very interesting. Please explain..........................

Egalitarianism.

AlekSmart

juan.kerr wrote: »

Where did the OP say they have residency or a work visa?

I understand that people here on student visas are entitled to work a certain number of hours, whether they exceed the hours or are really enroled in education is a different matter.

I seem to recall a Dept of Justice operation recently where several "Language Schools" were struck-off folowing the dropping of a Departmental penny.

Some of the "Schools" concerned amounted to no more than single roomed premises,sometimes with up to 1,000 pupils enrolled in "regular" classes.

A departmental whizz did some sums and found that the room would need to be packed to the rafters 24/7 to process the numbers being claimed.

However,in the interests of true egalitarianism,I'm asuming this remains an isolated example of such shennanigans and that every other such facility is as pure as the driven snow !

RandomName2

JustinDee wrote: »

To answer this obviously loaded question, you'll have to specify if you have anyone in mind in particular. Or are you willing to generalise that no immigrant from outside the EU, be they Philipinos, Turkish or American could have qualified for residency via marriage, birth or educational status?

It's only 'loaded' because the subject matter is taboo.

I said 'almost universally'. As in a large majority. Naturally there are always exceptions; that's why generalisations are necessary.

JustinDee wrote: »

As someone else pointed out, there are illegals as in other countries or as in Irish residing in other countries. Wouldn't be anything but disingenuous to tar all immigrants with same brush though. Thankfully the majority of us dont.

With all due respect that's an entirely different discussion. You also seem to be trying to say that all discussion on immigration, regardless of subject matter, should be curbed... because... there are illegal Irish immigrants in other countries?

bmaxi

My son's wife is Thai and is not a naturalised citizen of this country but she works in catering and pays tax and PRSI and has her PPS number and Driving Licence. If it's good enough for the Dept. of Labour, the Dept of Transport, the DSFA and the Revenue Commissioners then it's good enough for me.

RandomName2

bmaxi wrote: »

My son's wife is Thai and is not a naturalised citizen of this country but she works in catering and pays tax and PRSI and has her PPS number and Driving Licence. If it's good enough for the Dept. of Labour, the Dept of Transport, the DSFA and the Revenue Commissioners then it's good enough for me.

I'd say that her residency is based upon her being your son's wife.

That's the only means that I can see that someone can legally gain residency without being in full-time education or in a work-permitted occupancy.

bmaxi

RandomName2 wrote: »

I'd say that her residency is based upon her being your son's wife.

That's the only means that I can see that someone can legally gain residency without being in full-time education or in a work-permitted occupancy.

Indeed. Probably best then, not to jump to conclusions about the status of non-EU immigrants, lots of my daughter-in-law's colleagues and friends are in the same circumstances

fianna saor

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

Or Perhaps they are illegal ? Are there NO illegal immigrants in this country in your opinion ? Every time I see a post on Immigrants or Racism you are there I am starting to wonder why you fight so hard on these issues what is your agenda ? All the other "Business people" on here seem to be busy earning a living and getting through the recession and not obsessed with these issues. Interesting very very interesting. Please explain..........................

i do think it is believed by some people that there are no illegal immigrants in ireland, some people have their blinkers on and refuse to believe it. anybody found to be illegal in this country should be deported immediately.

oscarBravo

fianna saor wrote: »

i do think it is believed by some people that there are no illegal immigrants in ireland

I doubt it.

bmaxi

fianna saor wrote: »

i do think it is believed by some people that there are no illegal immigrants in ireland, some people have their blinkers on and refuse to believe it. anybody found to be illegal in this country should be deported immediately.

I've no doubt but there are illegal immigrants in this country and I'd guess, for most, it's a pretty dire situation to be in, once people have managed to get into the UK it's virtually impossible to stop them from coming here. Some don't have any papers which makes it difficult to deport them, others are trafficked to fill menial jobs in horrendous conditions or to work in the sex industry. All in all, I wouldn't like to trade places with them and I think we need to show a little compassion when dealing with them, they are not all Pamela Izevbekhais.

mikemac1

http://www.garda.ie/MissingPersons/Default.aspx

Don't just look at one page, skip around 3 or 4 random pages

Majority of missing people seem to have Chinese style names, all seem to college age and now they have been reported to the gardaí

Where are they all going?

Zombrex

RandomName2 wrote: »

It's only 'loaded' because the subject matter is taboo.

I said 'almost universally'. As in a large majority. Naturally there are always exceptions; that's why generalisations are necessary.

Actually it is the other way around. Generalisations are irrelevant because there are always exceptions, ie generalisations have no baring on modelling reality.

Frynge

Also who is reporting them missing.

mikemac1

Landlords and housemates I suppose

ResearchWill

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well they wouldn't have work visas/permits as work visas/ permits exclude



So how how would a full-time taxi-driver from Turkey or a building labourer from the Philippines be legally residing here?

To answer your question, the Turkish guy is more than likely here legally, there is an Agreement between the EU and Turkey together with a ECJ decision that means its relatively easy for Turks to enter and reside in EU. Once here 1 year working (including Student Stamp 2) the person ie entitled as of right to a work permit (confined to the employeer i think) after a further 3 years open work permit.

The Phillipines, there are 3 possible situations, 1 illegal (low chance for following reasons) 2. His wife is a nurse and has been here some time and he joined her 3 he cam over in early 2000's on work permit more than likely in Catering area and now is here on long term permission to remain.

juan.kerr

mikemac1 wrote: »

http://www.garda.ie/MissingPersons/Default.aspx

Don't just look at one page, skip around 3 or 4 random pages

Majority of missing people seem to have Chinese style names, all seem to college age and now they have been reported to the gardaí

Where are they all going?

Home, hopefully.

Nodin

RandomName2 wrote: »

This isn't a rhetorical question or soapboxing:

People from outside the EU, in this country, who are non-naturalised and are working in low level jobs (like labouring or driving) and are not in education: are they almost universally illegally residing in this country?

I'm specifically asking about low-level work because most work of this kind is excluded from work permits.

So this loaded question is based on a series of presumptions by you, and no data whatsoever....

archer22

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well they wouldn't have work visas/permits as work visas/ permits exclude



So how how would a full-time taxi-driver from Turkey or a building labourer from the Philippines be legally residing here?

Just one point regarding the Philippines seeing as you mentioned it.Filipinos have to prove at point of departure in the Philippines that they have employment secured overseas before being allowed to leave the Philippines.An illegal migrant might find its harder to leave the Philippines than it is to enter his destination country..of course a few may still get out on forged papers..nothings perfect,but thats the rules there as I understand it.

fianna saor

bmaxi wrote: »

I've no doubt but there are illegal immigrants in this country and I'd guess, for most, it's a pretty dire situation to be in, once people have managed to get into the UK it's virtually impossible to stop them from coming here. Some don't have any papers which makes it difficult to deport them, others are trafficked to fill menial jobs in horrendous conditions or to work in the sex industry. All in all, I wouldn't like to trade places with them and I think we need to show a little compassion when dealing with them, they are not all Pamela Izevbekhais.

compassion? they should be put on the first plane out of here. in fact immigration control and border patrols should be so tight that they dont even get the oppurtunity

oscarBravo

fianna saor wrote: »

compassion? they should be put on the first plane out of here. in fact immigration control and border patrols should be so tight that they dont even get the oppurtunity

Border fence between here and Northern Ireland, then?

Death and Taxes

fianna saor wrote: »

compassion? they should be put on the first plane out of here. in fact immigration control and border patrols should be so tight that they dont even get the oppurtunity

Slight problem there, due process and all that.
All couuntries suffer some degree of illegal imigration, but letsb not over hype the problem, in the scheme of things its quite small!

fianna saor

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Slight problem there, due process and all that.
All couuntries suffer some degree of illegal imigration, but letsb not over hype the problem, in the scheme of things its quite small!

i wouldnt be as optimistic as that i would say its quite a substantial problem. granted, id imagine there would always be some degree but minimalising it would be the way to go

Death and Taxes

fianna saor wrote: »

i wouldnt be as optimistic as that i would say its quite a substantial problem. granted, id imagine there would always be some degree but minimalising it would be the way to go

Happy to look at your evidence for that claim, if you have any. Can you provide a link to your evidence?

ResearchWill

fianna saor wrote: »

i wouldnt be as optimistic as that i would say its quite a substantial problem. granted, id imagine there would always be some degree but minimalising it would be the way to go

Have you any facts or figures to back up your assumptions, do you know how many non Irish are in the country, do you know how many are UK or EU. Do you know how many of the rest are legal and how many are illegal. Do you know how much tax the non Irish workers pay. If you have no facts to back up your assertion how do we even know 1 if we have a problem, and 2 if we do how big is it.

I assume you want Goole, Facebook, Paypal, Intel, Microsoft GSK, and all the other non Irish companies to leave.

fianna saor

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Happy to look at your evidence for that claim, if you have any. Can you provide a link to your evidence?

Thur Jan 3rd 2008
Many bogus asylum applicants are arriving here armed with an information pack on how to beat the system.
An investigation into asylum seeker abuses has also uncovered elaborate scams being used by the illegals to evade detection by immigration authorities.
The investigation, codenamed Operation Gull, is a joint exercise involving the Gardaí, the Department of Social and Family Affairs, the UK Borders and Immigration Agency and the Police Service of Northern Ireland.
An estimated 12pc of illegal migrants exposed by Operation Gull had been travelling on false documents. Officials said last night that bogus papers were also being used by criminals to move between countries.

<MOD SNIP: For copyright reasons, and per our charter, please don't cut and paste entire articles - post a snippet and a link. This is just a news dump. I'll also add that it is bad form to pass someone else's work off as your own, which is what you are essentially doing by not attributing your sources.>

fianna saor

ResearchWill wrote: »

Have you any facts or figures to back up your assumptions, do you know how many non Irish are in the country, do you know how many are UK or EU. Do you know how many of the rest are legal and how many are illegal. Do you know how much tax the non Irish workers pay. If you have no facts to back up your assertion how do we even know 1 if we have a problem, and 2 if we do how big is it.

I assume you want Goole, Facebook, Paypal, Intel, Microsoft GSK, and all the other non Irish companies to leave.

why are all those companies you mentioned illegal immigrants? dont be ridiculous silly post!

mikemac1

Private language schools to begin with.

Bogus businesses that are little more then an office, a telephone and that's it

And this crook had a garda contact

A Chinese man who bribed a former Department of Justice employee to issue visa extensions to immigrant students in a "highly lucrative scam" has been jailed for two and a half years at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court.

Bin Yang (aged 26) referred Chinese students who had come to Ireland to study English but didn’t met the conditions for a visa extension to Dara Revins (aged 28), who worked in the Garda Immigration Bureau.

Yang, of Belton Park Gardens, Donnycarney, received up to €4,000 from the students for putting them in touch with Revins. Revins, of Windmill Road, Crumlin, would give them the extension and was paid up to €1,500 by Yang for each student.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/e...#ixzz1VF2JONlh

One out of three are bogus

UP to 10,000 foreign nationals are working here illegally after entering the country on bogus student visas, the Irish Independent has learned.

They represent almost one in three of the students who come here from outside the EU.

The extent of the bogus student scam was revealed last night by Justice Minister Dermot Ahern as the Government prepared to tighten up the legislation on rogue colleges and students abusing the educational system.

The investigation reveals:

One college, which was under investigation in Dublin city, was found to have had no desks, blackboards, books or papers, when inspectors called there. Officials had difficulty gaining access there and after their visit reported back that it was effectively being used as residential accommodation.
Another college, with two branches in Dublin, had no students in attendance on two separate visits by inspectors.
In a third college in Cork where 70 students were registered, there was none present when inspectors called on one occasion and only eight students on another visit.
Evidence uncovered by the Departments of Justice and Education has already resulted in garda investigations into a number of suspected colleges.

http://www.independent.ie/education/...s-2060300.html

I'm going to get quoted and told students pay thousands and thousands for tuition in Ireland.
But that's colleges like NUIG or UCC or DCU and others around Ireland with recognized qualifications

These brass plates private schools are not the same at all

ResearchWill wrote: »

I assume you want Goole, Facebook, Paypal, Intel, Microsoft GSK, and all the other non Irish companies to leave.

Thread is about illegals

Not highly skilled workers employed by multi nationals

Death and Taxes

fianna saor wrote: »

Thur Jan 3rd 2008
Many bogus asylum applicants are arriving here armed with an information pack on how to beat the system.
An investigation into asylum seeker abuses has also uncovered elaborate scams being used by the illegals to evade detection by immigration authorities.
The investigation, codenamed Operation Gull, is a joint exercise involving the Gardaí, the Department of Social and Family Affairs, the UK Borders and Immigration Agency and the Police Service of Northern Ireland.
An estimated 12pc of illegal migrants exposed by Operation Gull had been travelling on false documents. Officials said last night that bogus papers were also being used by criminals to move between countries.
conviction and prison sentence for rape.
With A recent case involved an Algerian who had been deported from the UK after a the help of his brother, he obtained a false French passport and flew from Algiers to Paris and then to Dublin. He was then intercepted by Gull investigators in Belfast.
Nigerians, who consistently comprise the biggest single nationality claiming asylum in Ireland, are also by far the largest single national group encountered in the operation.
Many of the offenders have already claimed asylum here and are making a second attempt with the help of their information packs.
Others use a carousel method to claim benefits here, and in the UK, by using a number of passports to travel between the two jursdictions. The carousels are mainly used by Nigerians, Ethiopians, Georgians and Pakistanis.
Gull uncovered evidence of Moldovans on false Lithuanian documents, who had gained entry to the UK at Dover and were bound for Ireland to work illegally.
It has also been determined that 80pc of applicants, who claimed they arrived here by air, particularly Investigators established that their journey had been organised by a "facilitator".
those from Nigeria, Georgia and DR Congo, did not have identity documents.
Tom Brady Security Editor
© independent.ie


but there is more...
MAJORITY ASYLUM-SEEKERS PAY TRAFFICKERS AND USE FALSE PASSPORTS Official in Justice Dept states
"The asylum system is open to abuse, it is being abused, and has proven itself to be costly in terms of establishing the 'bona fides' of asylum seekers who manage to travel here."
said an Official Justice Dept. source
The majority of people who seek asylum in Ireland pay traffickers to get to Dublin using false passports.
Sunday Times: 13 Sept 2009
I guess He/she will have to testify

I think a little probing into the Dept's record since under your tenure Mr.Shatter might be in order
DEPT. OF JUSTICE DEPORTATION ORDERS VAST MAJORITY DO NOT END IN REPATRIATION
THE state has spent more than €6.8m in the past 5 yrs on flights to send failed asylum-seekers back to their countries.
6,000 people are now classified as 'evading deportation' with only a quarter of all orders actually ever implemented.
In the past 6 yrs, justice ministers have signed close to 8,500 deportation orders fewer than 2,500 of these have ended in repatriation.
tribune April 26, 2009


But wait Mr.Shatter we are not done yet.
ILLEGAL PAKISTANI IMMIGRANTS GET TO STAY IN IRELAND THRU BOGUS MARRIAGES
Gardai say 2 South Asians set up a company to source East European women and set them up with an Irish job in return for marrying a Pakstani. The Pakistanis can then stay in Ireland.
In 2009 384 residency applications were made by Pakistanis thru bogus marriages.
20 Pakistani cricket players who came to play a tournament went missing in July 2008, they stayed illegally to marry EU nationals.
Irish Examiner 26/1/10
Mr.Shatter it is good you are speaking with the commisioner about this, it looks like they know more than most about the accuracy of the use of the word bogus in relation to asylum seekers, I am sure many of the above got citizenship in your fast-track bonanza

Mr.Shatter here is one item the commissioner will be briefing you on, you can surprise and impress him with your knowledge, here you go
EUROPOL REPORT: IMMIGRATION A MAJOR THREAT TO EUROPEANS
A European Police Office report has revealed that at least 900,000 illegal immigrants from 3rd World enter the EU every year & 350,000 legal visitors overstay their visas -and that Europe faces major criminal threats from this invasion force.
This massive influx has seen “European citizens and businesses exposed to systematic violence and corruption at the hands of organised crime groups, terrorist groups, and, street gangs"
Europol 7/5/10

And here is one that the Irish people will be really interested in knowing, you Mr.Shatter how money conentrates the mind, wait till they get a load of this and many more money matters....if I were a rich man, tum ti tum ti tum
ASYLUM SEEKERS COST IRELAND €1.275 BILLION, DOES NOT INCLUDE ILLEGALS OR CRIME OR COSTS FROM OTHER TYPES OF IMMIGRANTS.
The Reception and Integration Agency (RIA) heard that the total amount spent by Government on asylum seekers in the past five years totals €1.275 billion, of which €423 million was spent on direct provision.
Source: Irish Examiner, Wed, Oct 13th 2010.

I wonder what your assessment of the Irish peoples patience is with judges and your dept. Mr. Shatter
“Justice in Ireland is sleeping while its people are dying,” Ms French told the Central Criminal Court.
“People with criminal records in their own country should never be allowed to live among us,” she said, referring to Mineikas and Dilys’s previous convictions in Lithuania.
“The country has enough to deal with."
Judge White described the statement as offensive; inappropriate; xenophobic;
I guess we can expect a repeat of that 'sound' judgement.

ASYLUM SEEKERS IN IRELAND CAUGHT 'ASYLUM SHOPPING'
243 Asylum seekers were transferred to other EU states after being caught 'asylum shopping' where they looked for refugee status in 2 or more countries.
40 failed asylum seekers were deported last night, a further 202 opted for help in returning home voluntarily rather than being removed.
source: Irish Independent 12/3/10

I think it is safe to say that the comment on the video was in alignment with the nature of immigration in this country. This could prove very illuminating for the rest of the public who have had not had an opportunity to get to grips with the facts of the nature of this policy. A policy we were not asked nor informed about, in clear breech of the constitution and the inalienable rights of the Irish nation to the unfettered access to the resources of this nation as laid out in the proclamation.

Wow, overwhelming evidence, some newspaper articles up to 5 years out of date largely based on opinion, I'm so impressed.:rolleyes:

Now, do you have any actual evidence, you know statistical data, empirical evidence, academic studies, something from the ERSI,CSO etc?

Obviously not or you wouldn't be peddling out of date newspaper articles!

ResearchWill

fianna saor wrote: »

why are all those companies you mentioned illegal immigrants? dont be ridiculous silly post!

My point is to try and find out what exactly is your issue. Is it any person coming here or just a specific group.

You say there is a problem with illegal immigration, ok how many. In fact officially there are some 750000 non Irish in ireland. 300000 are UK 250000 are EU the remainder are the rest of the world so 200000. Now how many of the, are currently with out status, how many are not recorded in the census.

You in that long rambling post mention Asylum, yes there was an large number of application between 1999 and 2009 with peak applications hitting about 14000 a year, a very badly set up system kept people in limbo for years. Currently applications are less than 2000 a year and dropping.

Are people abusing the system yes of course, do the INIS try and find them out yes, do the succeed yes some times. But like any system people slip through the only way to stop that is to close our borders to everyone which will lead to guess what, all those companies I mentioned moving, go into google or Microsoft or apple the employees are from every where in the world.

So unless you can say how big the problem is and how to solve it without closing down the borders.

ResearchWill

mikemac1 wrote: »

Private language schools to begin with.

Bogus businesses that are little more then an office, a telephone and that's it

And this crook had a garda contact



One out of three are bogus



I'm going to get quoted and told students pay thousands and thousands for tuition in Ireland.
But that's colleges like NUIG or UCC or DCU and others around Ireland with recognized qualifications

These brass plates private schools are not the same at all



Thread is about illegals

Not highly skilled workers employed by multi nationals

I know it's about illegals, I was making a point in relation to the fact that people coming here can be good for this country. So in relation to the total non Irish population how many are illegal.

In relation to the language schools and student visas yes there are problems in that system but again with out knowing figures we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, but at least people are being brought to court in relation to this issue.

In fact in relation to asylum

"Asylum
The provisional figures for 2011 indicate that 1,250 new applications for asylum were submitted. The equivalent figure for 2010 was 1,939. The comparative figure in 2002, when the use of the asylum system by economic migrants to enter the state was at its peak, was 11,600. Provisional figures for end 2011, indicate that there were approximately 5,400 persons seeking international protection accommodated in direct provision centres in the State."

I think asylum applications for 2012 are down again.

Further info

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0324/1224313823694.html

In fact upto the end of September 2012 there was 691 zapplications for the year so heading for less than 1 thousand applications and dropping.

bmaxi

fianna saor wrote: »

compassion? they should be put on the first plane out of here. in fact immigration control and border patrols should be so tight that they dont even get the oppurtunity

Ridiculous comment. Even the UK, which has a xenophobic attitude to anybody entering the country, can't keep them out and once they get there it simple to travel on here if they want to. UK border control arrest hundreds of illegals in the UK every week and that's just the tip of the iceberg, they even have a presence at the ferryports on the continent.
Compassion is for people who are not as fortunate as you, do you think if these people had the wherewithal to sit in a warm room and post comments on an internet forum, they'd be risking life and limb to take up a miserable existence here?

mikemac1

More stats

Asylum
The provisional figures for 2011 indicate that 1,250 new applications for asylum were submitted. The equivalent figure for 2010 was 1,939. The comparative figure in 2002, when the use of the asylum system by economic migrants to enter the state was at its peak, was 11,600. Provisional figures for end 2011, indicate that there were approximately 5,400 persons seeking international protection accommodated in direct provision centres in the State.

Most of the 5,400 will be deported as those who get paid to judge these things decide most as bogus

in Ireland just 1.5pc succeeded in their bid.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/only-25-granted-asylum-last-year-lowest-rate-in-eu-2599995.html

Though some of the 98.5% will stay and make the lawyers busy as Pamela Izevbekhai did

Removals of illegal immigrants
The removal of illegal immigrants from the State is a necessary feature of the enforcement of immigration legislation with the purpose of upholding the integrity of the immigration system. In enforcing the law in this respect, Ireland is no different to other countries who also remove individuals who have no lawful right to remain within their territory.

Deportations/Removals
Almost 4,000 persons were deported/removed from the State in 2011.
This number comprises of almost 3,700 persons who were refused entry into the State at ports of entry and were returned to the place from where they had come.
In addition, 280 failed asylum seekers and illegal migrants were deported from the State in 2011. The top 5 nationalities deported were Nigeria, South Africa, Pakistan, Moldova and Georgia. A total of 111 persons were deported on charter flights and 169 on scheduled commercial aircraft. In 2011, Ireland participated in 7 chartered deportation flights all of which were organised in conjunction with EU agency FRONTEX which coordinates removals throughout the EU.

A further 144 asylum seekers were transferred to the EU member state in which they first applied for asylum under the Dublin Regulation.
In addition a further 41 EU nationals were returned to their countries of origin on foot of an EU Removal Order.

Voluntary Returns
Rather than be issued with a deportation order, a total of 475 persons chose to return home voluntarily in 2011. Of that number, 402 were assisted to return by the International Organisation for Migration (IOM). The top 5 nationalities of returnees were Brazil, Moldova, Nigeria, Georgia and Mongolia.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Immigration%20in%20Ireland%202011%20–%20a%20year-end%20snapshot%20–%20major%20changes%20and%20more%20to%20follow

To work out the number of illegals versus legal, well 83,000 visas issued in 2011 and 4,000 removed.

But we will never know many illegals are here, the real figure will be higher

Provisional figures indicate that approximately 83,000 entry visa applications were processed in 2011, an increase of 8% on 2010. The approval rate for entry visa applications was 91%. The top 5 nationalities applying for visas in 2011 were India (17%), Russia (14%), China (12%), Turkey (5%) and Saudi Arabia (5%).

I'm waiting for WileyCoyote to come back and demand even more stats :pac:

Nodin

fianna saor wrote: »

..................

I think it is safe to say that the comment on the video was in alignment with the nature of immigration in this country. This could prove very illuminating for the rest of the public who have had not had an opportunity to get to grips with the facts of the nature of this policy. A policy we were not asked nor informed about, in clear breech of the constitution and the inalienable rights of the Irish nation to the unfettered access to the resources of this nation as laid out in the proclamation.

What policy?

What part of the constitution is being breached?

ResearchWill

mikemac1 wrote: »

More stats



Most of the 5,400 will be deported as those who get paid to judge these things decide most as bogus



Though some of the 98.5% will stay and make the lawyers busy as Pamela Izevbekhai did



To work out the number of illegals versus legal, well 83,000 visas issued in 2011 and 4,000 removed.

But we will never know many illegals are here, the real figure will be higher




I'm waiting for WileyCoyote to come back and demand even more stats :pac:

So 83,000 people granted visas and 4,000 removed, what does that tell us nothing at all. How many of 83,000 stayed exactly as per the terms of the visa. The question remains how big is the problem, what is the cost and more importantly is it worth spending even more money to solve a problem that in reality is reducing as can be seen from the number of Asylum applications.

mikemac1

Wileycoyote wants offical stats and not newspapers reports

The Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in Ireland website is linked to.
Easy to read, a summary of 2011

Now that tells us nothing at all

What exactly are you looking for?

You need to write a letter to your TD tbh, not ask on boards.ie

I only have the stats and same government websites as you and any of the public

Death and Taxes

mikemac1 wrote: »

Wileycoyote wants offical stats and not newspapers reports

The Irish Naturalization and Immigration Service in Ireland website is linked to.
Easy to read, a summary of 2011

Now that's tells us nothing at all

What exactly are you looking for?

You need to write a letter to your TD tbh, not ask on boards.ie

I only have the stats and same government websites as you and any of the public

No, if poster wants to assert their opinions as FACT, the I expect them to back up said assertions with verifiable evidence.
Otherwise I regard their postings as the wild, uneducated, and obviously ignorant rantings that they are.:cool:

fianna saor

bmaxi wrote: »

Ridiculous comment. Even the UK, which has a xenophobic attitude to anybody entering the country, can't keep them out and once they get there it simple to travel on here if they want to. UK border control arrest hundreds of illegals in the UK every week and that's just the tip of the iceberg, they even have a presence at the ferryports on the continent.
Compassion is for people who are not as fortunate as you, do you think if these people had the wherewithal to sit in a warm room and post comments on an internet forum, they'd be risking life and limb to take up a miserable existence here?

i dont care what they do and what existance they have once its not here in this country!

Nodin

fianna saor wrote: »

i dont care what they do and what existance they have once its not here in this country!

Would you get back to me on this please....?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82461123&postcount=44

fianna saor

Nodin wrote: »

Would you get back to me on this please....?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82461123&postcount=44

that was supposed to be posted as a link......ask the author

Nodin

fianna saor wrote: »

that was supposed to be posted as a link......ask the author

So you're quoting material you don't understand from a far right website?

AlekSmart

bmaxi wrote: »

I've no doubt but there are illegal immigrants in this country and I'd guess, for most, it's a pretty dire situation to be in, once people have managed to get into the UK it's virtually impossible to stop them from coming here. Some don't have any papers which makes it difficult to deport them, others are trafficked to fill menial jobs in horrendous conditions or to work in the sex industry. All in all, I wouldn't like to trade places with them and I think we need to show a little compassion when dealing with them, they are not all Pamela Izevbekhais.

Indeed bmaxi,I'd be reluctant to use "for most" in assessing the severity of the II's situations.

this is simply due to the physical location of the island of Ireland itself.

If this were the Turkish/Syrian border or indeed any of the African continents land frontiers then my Compassionometer would be calibrated accordingly.

However,most,if not all,of our contentious arrivals,tend to have quite an immigration related rap-sheet throughout the EU.

The INIB reports and assorted media reportage (Fully accept these are NOT acceptable to some posters) tend to point to a large-scale and lucrative business in facilitating mass attempts to secure entry into Ireland.

Ms Izevbekhai's eventually well reported criminality,was not a solo-run by a poor oppressed African woman,instead whilst a high profile section of Irelands Illuminati beat upon their chests in self chastisment,the serious questions concerning the Izevbekhai's ( Not forgetting Tony,the husband) facilitators and asssorted other business associates were left unasked and unanswered....until we can find another Star performer to fill the column inches.

This country's current asylum and immigration system is well fit-for-purpose,and deserves far more support in it's endeavours than the constant sniping largely against the Gardai,who with scant resources,attempt to remain proffessional and compassionate with those who seek to break,not only the law,but the very basis of the system itself.