Moo monitors

Cowmad

Hi all

Any body have the dairymaster moo monitors. If so what are the ups and downs with them.

joejobrien

Hi Cowmad,
No I am not using them, but a friend of mine has them for 2 seasons
Definitely the first year, they gave alot of trouble, batteries had to be changed during the season, on a third of the collars, some cows bulling in front of his own eyes and not registering at the base station....etc
Last year worked better. However his 3 wk,6 wk submission etc are no better than any of the good farmers in the group In fact there would be lads hitting in excess of 90% 3 wk.
However he works off farm a bit and this is his eyes and ear during the breeding season. did you read Dan Ryans article on them Check out cows365.ie
There are a few more of these machines creeping in and IMO will getmore competitive.
I suppose it depends on how comfortable you are with your knowledge of the cows, ability to seek out bulling cows recording keeping etc
Just my ha pennys worth:D

Timmaay

That's a good website Joejo, Dans last article: (http://www.cowsdna.com/feed-shortages-and-cash-flow-issues-result-in-strict-culling/) is interesting:
"Aids to heat detection such as tail paint have not proven attractive to farmers with cows indoors.", also:

"In conclusion breeding cows for autumn calving will not be an option for empty cows from spring calving programmes on most dairy farms."

The second point is a reason that I'd consider keeping the winter herd, hard to know if I'm just fooling myself though by avoiding solving the problem of empty cows.

joejobrien

I fully agree with Dan article. I myself was extremely keen on them a few years ago. New techonolgy is what will help with the work load (not 6th and 7th gears:D)
But I am finding personally that we get excellent results without them.....so far. I should say at this point we are spring calving herd and cannot comment on Autumn calving. They may well exceeded in that situation.
I am just making the point that, dont expect they are the complete solution. You must be on top of it. No point in finding cows bulling everyday at the end of the breeding season saying ah the machine will get them all!!!!

st1979

Anyone i know with the heat time ones feel they can rely on them and have made a difference maybe dairymaster one is just not as good

whelan1

i have heat time, as said before you dont just rely on it, you have to be watching also, suits me as i cannot be around the cows as often as i should, picks up alot of silent heats and that is the biggest advantage for me

freedominacup

whelan1 wrote: »

picks up alot of silent heats and that is the biggest advantage for me

You'll serve cows on the say so of the machine without ever seeing a bulling yourself? What is the conception rate like with these animals compared to ones you observe yourself?

maxxuumman

The MooMinder appears to be an interesting concept. There seems to be a lot of new research going into temp based heat detection rather than pedometer type. There is a French company making moves in this field also. Can't think of their name.
Anyone got this type of system?

whelan1

freedominacup wrote: »

You'll serve cows on the say so of the machine without ever seeing a bulling yourself? What is the conception rate like with these animals compared to ones you observe yourself?

yup, surprised myself, any of the "silent" cows it picks up, i would say to the ai man , what does she feel like and 99% of the time they have been in heat.

leg wax

how does the ai man know that she was in heat from his hand inside her.

whelan1

he knows better than me:D on the conception rates its no worse than the ones i have seen in standing heat. it might pick out an odd cow that is not bulling, was one in heat a few weeks ago and she had been bulling every 3 weeks - standing heat- she was 5 months in calf when ai man went to serve her, i didnt get her scanned earlier as she had been in heat regularly... even now when she is dry she is in heat!

leg wax

whelan1 wrote: »

he knows better than me:D on the conception rates its no worse than the ones i have seen in standing heat. it might pick out an odd cow that is not bulling, was one in heat a few weeks ago and she had been bulling every 3 weeks - standing heat- she was 5 months in calf when ai man went to serve her, i didnt get her scanned earlier as she had been in heat regularly... even now when she is dry she is in heat!

the reason i ask is i do my own ai and have been for 12 years,all cows are different inside to handle,the easy signs are her love juice's are flowing and its very easy to get the gun in other than that i think his telling a little porker,now i may be wrong but we were never told as to signs of a cow inside if she is in heat or not.the cow with a silent heat will not be showing vast amounts of love juice.

pakalasa

Legwax, from doing AI, is it possible to tell if a maiden heifer will be an easy calver or not?
Can you tell if she is roomy?
I remember seeing this device before, that the Americans use to measure the internal pelvic opening. But can you tell just from a feel around inside?

Also how come more of you Dairy guys aren't running a teaser bull? Hard to beat for heat detection.

leg wax

pakalasa wrote: »

Legwax, from doing AI, is it possible to tell if a maiden heifer will be an easy calver or not?
Can you tell if she is roomy?
I remember seeing this device before, that the Americans use to measure the internal pelvic opening. But can you tell just from a feel around inside?

Also how come more of you Dairy guys aren't running a teaser bull? Hard to beat for heat detection.

i dont know ,anyone?

weekendfarmer

I was looking at pedometer / collar based systems but my vet said they do not work when the animal is housed due to the restricted movement ... is this true ?

whelan1

weekendfarmer wrote: »

I was looking at pedometer / collar based systems but my vet said they do not work when the animal is housed due to the restricted movement ... is this true ?

they do work in housed systems, sure when the cows are housed they still move more when in heat...

weekendfarmer

What system have you ? or are we allowed to mention brands in this forum ?

whelan1

have heat time, have it about 4 or 5 years

weekendfarmer

hhmmm, interesting. He normally is very clued up on this sort of stuff. Still having to have to walk them pass near a reader everyday would be a nuisance ? I suppose you could have a reader in every bay near water trough

weekendfarmer

Its a pity that the temperature bolus solutions can not be retrieved from the animal ... seems like a neat solution apart from that ... if only there was some way to get them to puke them up

delaval

whelan1 wrote: »

yup, surprised myself, any of the "silent" cows it picks up, i would say to the ai man , what does she feel like and 99% of the time they have been in heat.

What is your submission rate?

Do you use on spring cows?

Did you say your calving index was 400 and has it improved since you started using the new system?

We have a winter herd tail paint doesn't work inside. I wonder would kmars do the trick. We use a stock bull for winter and sell all offspring

whelan1

scanning next week so will know all:D use it all year round. works grand, well used to it now... great as i am not around all the time to check for heats

delaval

Scanning will tell you your in calf rate, what is your submission rate? (how many of your calved cows were presentsd for ai)
You reminded me to ring scanner thanks

whelan1

delaval wrote: »

Scanning will tell you your in calf rate, what is your submission rate? (how many of your calved cows were presentsd for ai)
You reminded me to ring scanner thanks

will work it out and come back to you, was fairly good

Timmaay

I was close on picking up a heattime system afew months ago, 2nd hand, for a very reasonable price, but my dad say no! On hinesight, I think I probably was jumping the gun abit, catching plenty of cows bulling at the minute, and AI some of the Autumn 2011 heifers before they get too big. Our probably isn't heat detection, but mostly just a mix of some cows coming late (400days+), and then repeating too many times (ie typical Holstein issues!). I think the heattime horizon is the system to go with long term, but I think it would have to come down in price significantly yet to make it justifiable over proper use of traditional methods such as tailpaint etc. Compact calving is the key to many so problems inside the dairy gate, once you have that you only need a few week blitz on heat detection, not spending all year trying to spot cows!

whelan1

vasectomised bull could work well either

Timmaay

Yeh true, considering one also, think I'll just stick to the tail paint, and kmars this year though, we have a bull for cleaning up already and I don't really want the hassle or risk of the two of them meeting eachother!

Blue Holland

whelan1 wrote: »

vasectomised bull could work well either

I use tail paint(find paint sticks very handy for touching up) and scratch pads as well as vasectomised Jersey with chin ball.

I'd rate scratch pads most reliable followed by jersey with tail paint third.

weekendfarmer

I emailed the bolus crowd monday in the states and they sent me some info there yesterday regarding temperature reading. (According to them Moorepark are going doing a trial for them now also). There independent research papers already done in US and Canada conclude that you can not have a heat occurrence without a temperature spike.

There readers are not two expensive so you could have a few them scattered around new and old sheds all connected in a grid.

We cull about 15% of cows every year, want to move to 100% AI and up to 120 suckler cows.
would it justify the 80 euro bolus being lost given that we would save in not having to keep 2 bulls?

moy83

Thats some load of sucklers . Why do you not want to keep a bull if you dont mind me asking ?

weekendfarmer

Numerous reasons
1. I intend renting another 30 acres and the boundaries are not super.
2. My animals (93 at the moment) vary from super cows to small frames. Want to breed a mixture of blues,charleys,limos.
AI will allow me to do this. (Plan is to cull off smaller frames over next 4-5 years)
3. While I was at work 2 years ago, a man i had hired to shove cattle in for test nearly got killed by what i taught was my very quite bull (hand feed since 4 months old). The little man is of the age to starting wondering out on to fields himself, his mammy is quite rightly laying down the law.... bulls have to go

My neighbour has only 13 cows, and has 12 babies by different dadies. The right gentic mix as advised by his AI guy is amazing .... I am jealous

whelan1

see a heat time system on done deal there with 80 collars... in the dairy section

weekendfarmer

Moy83 ... are you the moylan from galway involved in the temperature ear tags ? I would be eager to meet you for an hour some evening if you are ... You would be very welcome to do any trial / test etc on my farm

weekendfarmer

whelan1 wrote: »

see a heat time system on done deal there with 80 collars... in the dairy section

Any idea of the price?

whelan1

weekendfarmer wrote: »

Any idea of the price?

your guess is as good as mine, collars are around 100 euro each new, give him a ring and let us know

moy83

weekendfarmer wrote: »

Numerous reasons
1. I intend renting another 30 acres and the boundaries are not super.
2. My animals (93 at the moment) vary from super cows to small frames. Want to breed a mixture of blues,charleys,limos.
AI will allow me to do this. (Plan is to cull off smaller frames over next 4-5 years)
3. While I was at work 2 years ago, a man i had hired to shove cattle in for test nearly got killed by what i taught was my very quite bull (hand feed since 4 months old). The little man is of the age to starting wondering out on to fields himself, his mammy is quite rightly laying down the law.... bulls have to go

My neighbour has only 13 cows, and has 12 babies by different dadies. The right gentic mix as advised by his AI guy is amazing .... I am jealous

They are all good reasons will u be AIing yourself ?
Im not Moylan anyhow .Are you a galway man yourself ?

weekendfarmer

whelan1 wrote: »

your guess is as good as mine, collars are around 100 euro each new, give him a ring and let us know

sorry ... taught they were yours. juggling 2 things here at the moment

weekendfarmer

moy83 wrote: »

They are all good reasons will u be AIing yourself ?
Im not Moylan anyhow .Are you a galway man yourself ?

Not yet ... but my cousin and i are planning doing the AI course and going halves on tank and straws later this year. If that goes well we are planning to do the embryo training aswell.


.... Limerick

maxxuumman

whelan1 wrote: »

your guess is as good as mine, collars are around 100 euro each new, give him a ring and let us know

How long do the batteries last on the heat time collars.

whelan1

maxxuumman wrote: »

How long do the batteries last on the heat time collars.

some of the original ones are still working- 4 years later- pg man took 28 away yesterday to fix them before i need them in a few weeks, broken tags and straps

weekendfarmer

The cousin spoke with 6 farmers ... all dairy men, 1 says they are good. Other 5 said they would not buy them again.
Between them getting caught in stuff, batteries, broken straps etc.

He has developed a contact involved with the bolus research and will be speaking to him at the weekend. Interesing to see how thats going

whelan1

weekendfarmer wrote: »

The cousin spoke with 6 farmers ... all dairy men, 1 says they are good. Other 5 said they would not buy them again.
Between them getting caught in stuff, batteries, broken straps etc.

He has developed a contact involved with the bolus research and will be speaking to him at the weekend. Interesing to see how thats going

seriously, i would say once every 6 months a collar comes off from being caught in things , its the same as a cows tag, they fall off...they open when they come under a certain amount of pressure, which means the cow wont hang herself, which would you prefer havent lost 1 collar yet. the after sales service is superb ... as isaid i still have some of the original collars from january 2009, you get out of it what you put in imo.... its not going to work unless you work with it

whelan1

weekendfarmer wrote: »

The cousin spoke with 6 farmers ... all dairy men, 1 says they are good. Other 5 said they would not buy them again.
Between them getting caught in stuff, batteries, broken straps etc.

He has developed a contact involved with the bolus research and will be speaking to him at the weekend. Interesing to see how thats going

you seem very set on the bolus, at least the strap is reusable

weekendfarmer

What I like about the bolus

1. No management of keeping collars swapped from cow to cow
2. Web connectivity - data anywhere, watch from work etc.
3. Temperature best indication of animal well being, let alone best heat indicator

What I don't Like ...
1. Reusability = 0
2. Cost 80 euro .. + readers + high monthly cost
3. Cull cow , 80 euro gone aswell

Whelan ... would you genuinely buy the collars now, if you had a second chance?

whelan1

weekendfarmer wrote: »

What I like about the bolus

1. No management of keeping collars swapped from cow to cow
2. Web connectivity - data anywhere, watch from work etc.
3. Temperature best indication of animal well being, let alone best heat indicator

What I don't Like ...
1. Reusability = 0
2. Cost 80 euro .. + readers + high monthly cost
3. Cull cow , 80 euro gone aswell

Whelan ... would you genuinely buy the collars now, if you had a second chance?

yes as it suits my situation, it will pick out cows with low activity also... you say no management, you still have to put the bolus in, which is the same as putting the collar on, in fact putting the collar on would be easier imo

weekendfarmer

Look activity = Lameness ???

whelan1

weekendfarmer wrote: »

Look activity = Lameness ???

low activity, could mean mastitis, illness, lameness... much the same as the blous works on the temperature, how do you know if the temperature change is illness or heat?

weekendfarmer

whelan1 wrote: »

low activity, could mean mastitis, illness, lameness... much the same as the blous works on the temperature, how do you know if the temperature change is illness or heat?

Spike Temperatures = estrogen suddenly introduced into the blood .... all Other illness have a slower rise in temp taking 24 hours or more

I have seen the graphs on research .... very obviuos

whelan1

so for 80 euro you get a bolus that can not be re used... think i will stick with what i have thanks

whelan1

how long does the bolus last, can you put a second one in if first one isnt working, would it distort the first one????

weekendfarmer

whelan1 wrote: »

how long does the bolus last, can you put a second one in if first one isnt working, would it distort the first one????

I will now all over the weekend :D

Just got a text message there, cousin bringing me on another road trip to see something "worth seeing" saturday.... she'll love that ..."another weekend widow "

Have a great weekend lads. Thanks for all the feedback.
If i find out anything i'll keep ye posted