hello and where's your money?

Duck Soup

We've had plenty of threads on AH about chuggers, beggars and other people who are in various ways trying to ease the money out of your pockets. But living in central Dublin in particular (near Baggot Street) I've become aware of the broader phenomenon.

There isn't a person that stops you on a city centre street these days that isn't trying in some way to extract your money.

Wasn't it always that way? Well, no.

I moved to Dublin in the late 90s and you could walk financially unmolested down O'Connell St, Grafton Street, Baggot Street etc. On the odd occasion, you might see someone shaking a tin with the charity's name on it, but they just stood silent and left it to you if you wanted to contribute.

Now it's an irritation just to go to the shops and back. Chuggers dive out in front of you, work in teams of three and make it into a slalom event just to walk 50 yards.

People sit right next to the cashpoint, repeating "Spare some change" in a high-pitched whine (it's a fcuking ATM - you expect me to give a spare 20 note?).

Men, women and children shake McDonald's drink cups under your nose and follow you up the street. The newest wrinkle is that some of them have twigged that if you look like a skobe you'll automatically be screened out, so now there are well-dressed types who you initially assume are tourists or out-of-towners, only to be hit by the usual spiel for cash as soon as they open their gobs.

You can't sit outside a café without someone trying to tap you up.

Wait for a bus and if you're having a cigarette, there's a 50:50 chance someone will try to cadge one off you.

Even on Christmas Eve, as I was going into Connelly Station, some guy stopped me with a story about "Lost my wallet...trying to get to..." I gave him 2 euro just to make him go away (too tired to argue) and watched him work the entire platform as I waited for my train. Presumably he was trying to get to the Maldives.

Once, and I mean once, did someone stop me in the last year and not ask me for money. An American woman in her early 20s was in Merrion Square looking for her Irish friend picking her up from the Airbus. She asked if she could use my phone and I was happy to help.

The sad thing is that the only reason I stopped at all was that she wasn't Irish and therefore I entertained the possibility that she wasn't looking for money or some other largesse.

When did Dublin (and perhaps the other Irish cities) become a city of moochers and gougers? When did we start looking at the people we share the city with solely with an eye as to how much we can shake out of them?

It's become a barrage and it's wearing, it's annoying and it happens most every day. You end up cynical and angry.

9959

Third World problem.

goingpostal1

Duck Soup wrote: »

...... a city of moochers and gougers? .......people ....... solely with an eye as to how much we can shake out of them?........

And thats just Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, The IMF, the property developers, the banks, the civil service, the Revenue Commissioners etc etc etc.

JONJO THE MISER

Im short three fiddy for my sky package o.p, any chance of a sub:o

goingpostal1

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Im short three fiddy for my sky package o.p, any chance of a sub:o

Give us 1.75 of that 3.50 if you manage to get it out of him, right? I am short for a pack of Bensons.

Duck Soup

goingpostal1 wrote: »

And thats just Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, The IMF, the property developers, the banks, the civil service, the Revenue Commissioners etc etc etc.

I've no doubt that's a large part of it. We became in the Celtic Tiger years creatures of self-interest. And our supposed betters - banks, elected officials etc - set patterns of behaviour based solely on lining pockets. There was even an element of admiration for those who lined their pockets, made their fortunes and got away with less than creditable behaviour. It should come as no surprise when those attitudes work their way from top to bottom of Irish society.

Bad enough when money was plenty. When we're all in the crapper, we end up just taking bites out of each other.

Lucy and Harry

Roma beggars in Dublin are the worst I can never go in for a meal without being followed in and while I am eating they beg for money at the table.Also I am sick of them pushing baby's in my face and asking for money for them.Dont have a baby if you cant afford to bring it up dam it.
Also I met a chugger who said do you want to donate for the homeless and I said no thanks and was met with a aggressive shouting man saying WHAT DO YOU NOT CARE ABOUT THE HOMELESS..So even though I do I said to him no I care about nobody and then he fecked off.
Rant over

evolving_doors

Duck Soup wrote: »

Even on Christmas Eve, as I was going into Connelly Station, some guy stopped me with a story about "Lost my wallet...trying to get to..." I gave him 2 euro just to make him go away........

I lost sympathy for your plight just after that statement..

Supply creates demand fella

.. the problem with Ireland is that our services are based on the charity model..health, education etc...

Because of our inferiority complex we feel the need to give in order to feel accepted. E.g. the the round System in pubs... We think were great buying someone else a drink, but it's based on the assumption that we'll get something back from it...it makes no sense...

goingpostal1

Duck Soup wrote: »

I've no doubt that's a large part of it. We became in the Celtic Tiger years creatures of self-interest. And our supposed betters - banks, elected officials etc - set patterns of behaviour based solely on lining pockets. There was even an element of admiration for those who lined their pockets, made their fortunes and got away with less than creditable behaviour. It should come as no surprise when those attitudes work their way from top to bottom of Irish society.

Bad enough when money was plenty. When we're all in the crapper, we end up just taking bites out of each other.

All true, what a terrible harvest we shall now reap. I don't feel guilty about not giving money to charities or beggars. I get a little kick out of saying no. I didn't create all the misery in the world, so why should I take financial responsibility for it? I am just one person. Anyone who tries to hook me with guilt manipulation can get lost, as far as I am concerned.

Cosmo Kramer

Duck Soup wrote: »

We've had plenty of threads on AH about chuggers, beggars and other people who are in various ways trying to ease the money out of your pockets. But living in central Dublin in particular (near Baggot Street) I've become aware of the broader phenomenon.

There isn't a person that stops you on a city centre street these days that isn't trying in some way to extract your money.

Wasn't it always that way? Well, no.

I moved to Dublin in the late 90s and you could walk financially unmolested down O'Connell St, Grafton Street, Baggot Street etc. On the odd occasion, you might see someone shaking a tin with the charity's name on it, but they just stood silent and left it to you if you wanted to contribute.

Now it's an irritation just to go to the shops and back. Chuggers dive out in front of you, work in teams of three and make it into a slalom event just to walk 50 yards.

People sit right next to the cashpoint, repeating "Spare some change" in a high-pitched whine (it's a fcuking ATM - you expect me to give a spare 20 note?).

Men, women and children shake McDonald's drink cups under your nose and follow you up the street. The newest wrinkle is that some of them have twigged that if you look like a skobe you'll automatically be screened out, so now there are well-dressed types who you initially assume are tourists or out-of-towners, only to be hit by the usual spiel for cash as soon as they open their gobs.

You can't sit outside a café without someone trying to tap you up.

Wait for a bus and if you're having a cigarette, there's a 50:50 chance someone will try to cadge one off you.

Even on Christmas Eve, as I was going into Connelly Station, some guy stopped me with a story about "Lost my wallet...trying to get to..." I gave him 2 euro just to make him go away (too tired to argue) and watched him work the entire platform as I waited for my train. Presumably he was trying to get the Maldives.

Once, and I mean once, did someone stop me in the last year and not ask me for money. An American woman in her early 20s was in Merrion Square looking for her Irish friend picking her up from the Airbus. She asked if she could use my phone and I was happy to help.

The sad thing is that the only reason I stopped at all was that she wasn't Irish and therefore I entertained the possibility that she wasn't looking for money or some other largesse.

When did Dublin (and perhaps the other Irish cities) become a city of moochers and gougers? When did we start looking at the people we share the city with solely with an eye as to how much we can shake out of them?

It's become a barrage and it's wearing, it's annoying and it happens most every day. You end up cynical and angry.

It's a Dublin issue from my experience, no need to go dragging the other Irish cities into it. A third world capital city by European standards.

Duck Soup

Armelodie wrote: »

I lost sympathy for your plight just after that statement..

I thought someone might. Living near the city centre, I spend pretty much every day trying to bypass people who have no other interest than drilling a hole in my pocket and seeing the money flow. And yes, I'm aware that supply creates demand. I live in hope that if enough people ignore them then at the very least they'll go do it somewhere else.

The problem at a train station is that you're stuck there waiting. It then becomes a battle of wills as to how long they can keep it up, how long you can bear it and if you're willing to give them an outright "Just fcuk off will you, pal." Factor in tiredness and, yes, perhaps just a touch of Christmassy sentimentality and I just couldn't be arsed to argue.

But the reason they work the city centres is precisely because there's (a) a lot of people concentrated in a small area, usually shopping and therefore with cash in hand and (b) many of them aren't hard-bitten locals and might therefore be unsuspecting and uncynical about the usual gouger's spiel.

goingpostal1

Armelodie wrote: »

I lost sympathy for your plight just after that statement..

Supply creates demand fella.....

Everyone has given into beggars/charities in a moment of weakness, at least once. It is impossible to be alert and strong enough mentally all the time, and never get caught by their well-practised manipulation.

Duck Soup

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

It's a Dublin issue from my experience, no need to go dragging the other Irish cities into it. A third world capital city by European standards.

Which is why I said "perhaps". I'm asking more than anything if things are different in other Irish cities - Galway, Limerick, Cork.

Just in terms of keeping the capital city's reputation alive as a decent tourist destination, you'd wonder why the guards aren't like mustard picking up people gouging in the city centre. If you got nicked within 10 minutes of starting and the fine vastly outweighed what you might be able to pick up in that time, at the least the begging part of the problem might vanish rapidly.

As for the chuggers, I'm thinking that this is down to Dublin city council decisions. Wicklow Street in particular has become a near battle zone for negotiating chuggers and I'm assuming that they're all licensed with permits. One charity a week in that area would do fine or even a charity a day with only one chugger allowed would both be improvements.

goingpostal1

Chuggers are way worse than homeless beggars, IMO. Well-fed, energetic, relentlessly positive and chirpy. Give me genuine despair and defeat anyday.

working fool

Not really confined to Dublin
In slane village last wednsday there was a crowd collecting at the traffic lights
One of them stood in the middle of the road blocking traffic shaking a bucket
Dunno what they where even collecting for no I'd badges or anything .

Lucy and Harry

Some of these chuggers are hot....:pac:I am a sucker for a pretty face:D

kneemos

goingpostal1 wrote: »

Chuggers are way worse than homeless beggars, IMO. Well-fed, energetic, relentlessly positive and chirpy. Give me genuine despair and defeat anyday.

The positivity does my head in as well,not the kind of people you'd want to know I'd imagine.

kneemos

This is what happens when no one is in control,people do what they like and it turns into a free for all.

lennyloulou

on our rare up-from the country shopping/concert visits to the big smoke we have seen a gigantic increase in chuggers etc on the main streets on Dublin. It is a disgrace- having lived/worked/travelled in a few capital cities of the world- I believe standards in Dublin have dropped dramatically. As an Irish citizen, I find it embarassing!
Oh ya, 2 yrs ago stayed at a well known established hotel near the top of O'Connell St- talking to the staff over a few late drinks- I was told to watch my bag ( We were inside, tucked away at the bar) seemingly they had continuous problems of thiefs walking in off the street and robbing hand bags!!!

Duck Soup

kneemos wrote: »

This is what happens when no one is in control, people do what they like and it turns into a free for all.

I agree with you and what annoys me is that it would not be the trials of Hercules to get a handle on it all.

Begging is pretty much let happen unrestricted on Grafton Street and surrounding environs. Whenever I've been on O'Connell Street or Henry Street it's much the same. A few uniformed guards and a few plainclothes and you could start nicking people for what I believe is a criminal offence.

Chuggers are even simpler. They need to be licensed, and Dublin City Council seem to have no comprehension of how many chuggers is too many. Scale the number of permits way, way back.

It creates an unpleasant, hassled atmosphere that can't be good for a tourist city. The third world capital comments are on the money (pun intended) - you don't expect to go into a modern European capital and be tapped up every ten yards. It's like Bangkok with bad weather.

For me, there's also a measure of sadness in it all. I know that if I walk up any main Dublin thoroughfare today, someone will stop me and they will be asking for money. And that's a shítty way for us all to be looking at each other.

mikemac1

It's not new OP

When I was a young 'un and making the annual trip to Dublin on December 8th there would be a young lad always asking for a punt for the bus.

Just a punt, ok there you go. I did it a few times, anytime I got the bus to the big smoke

Why did I give it?
But I was clueless and hadn't a notion I was being scammed. :rolleyes:

And then I see him doing him doing the same thing to half of Busáras!

You are a local and know more then a tourist or out of towner

Chuck Stone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CizzE-zZo

UCDVet

Here's why people do it: 'I gave him 2 euro just to make him go away'

People keep giving them money! Why would they stop? They make a decent wage compared to working your arse off scrubbing the toilets for minimum wage.

So long as they're allowed to beg for money, and so long as people give them money, they won't stop.

Death and Taxes

Its the chuggers who really get my goat, they get paid €15 per hour, most of the money they collect goes to pay their wages and expenses!

token101

Duck Soup wrote: »

Even on Christmas Eve, as I was going into Connelly Station, some guy stopped me with a story about "Lost my wallet...trying to get to..." I gave him 2 euro just to make him go away (too tired to argue) and watched him work the entire platform as I waited for my train. Presumably he was trying to get to the Maldives.

It was Sydney I was going to actually. I made it in the end, thanks for asking. I found my wallet too, in my pocket all along. Always the last place you look you sure.

irishgeo

its a garda issue, begging is illegal last time i checked, we need a clampdown on it on the streets.

Scanlas The 2nd

Duck Soup wrote: »

I've no doubt that's a large part of it. We became in the Celtic Tiger years creatures of self-interest. And our supposed betters - banks, elected officials etc - set patterns of behaviour based solely on lining pockets. There was even an element of admiration for those who lined their pockets, made their fortunes and got away with less than creditable behaviour. It should come as no surprise when those attitudes work their way from top to bottom of Irish society.

Bad enough when money was plenty. When we're all in the crapper, we end up just taking bites out of each other.

Humans have always been creatures of self interest, don't be fooled.

irishgeo

here is a idea as well to take up with dublin city council

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104736/Council-bans-chuggers-High-Street-scaring-away-shoppers.html

iDave

Few things annoy me more than some smarmy middle class 20 year old doing a dance in my face trying to tell me about suffering having never experienced anything close to suffering in their lives.
I also can't stand the Roma looking dude who works Abbey St luas, he just walks up and holds his hand out and says nothing. At least the atm junkies make an effort and ask for change.

token101

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Its the chuggers who really get my goat, they get paid €15 per hour, most of the money they collect goes to pay their wages and expenses!

If they were really getting your goat they'd probably be doing a lot more good. They could ship them off to Africa and they'd help families make millions. Or so Miley used to say anyway.

guinnessdrinker

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Its the chuggers who really get my goat, they get paid €15 per hour, most of the money they collect goes to pay their wages and expenses!

Is this really true?

Anyway, the reason there are so many chuggers is because this method of collecting money obviously works however annoying people may find it.

Wanderer2010

Duck Soup wrote: »

Which is why I said "perhaps". I'm asking more than anything if things are different in other Irish cities - Galway, Limerick, Cork.

Did you forget Waterford? We have a major problem with chuggers down here too.

mikemac1

Everyone forgets the marble city

The King of Moo

Homeless people had more class in my day, they'd never have the nerve to ask their betters for money directly.

Wanderer2010

mikemac1 wrote: »

Everyone forgets the marble city

Ye win the All Ireland every year, we see enough of you

MagicMarker

Duck Soup wrote: »

Once, and I mean once, did someone stop me in the last year and not ask me for money. An American woman in her early 20s was in Merrion Square looking for her Irish friend picking her up from the Airbus. She asked if she could use my phone and I was happy to help.

She was hot, wasn't she?

dj jarvis

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

It's a Dublin issue from my experience, no need to go dragging the other Irish cities into it. A third world capital city by European standards.

LOL - say you from Castlebar
Dublin may be in your opinion a 3rd world capital by European standards,
but Castlebar is a pig sty by any ones standard, let alone European standards.
and just so you know, it is not a city either , so no one is dragging it anywhere

but seeing its been a week since a pointless anti Dublin thread, i suppose you as much as anybody should start it

but come on - CASTLEBAR :rolleyes:

and FYI . Cork , Galway LImerick also have street beggars , chuggers and muggers , maybe not in the same numbers as Dublin , but its a
numbers game , you see , more people live in Dublin , so attracts more pan handlers , so do you see how that works
and shock horror , i have seen beggars and chuggers in London , Berlin , Helsinki - so Dublin is not unique im afraid
this has been a public info broadcast for slightly dumb people - carry on

token101

dj jarvis wrote: »

LOL - say you from Castlebar
Dublin may be in your opinion a 3rd world capital by European standards,
but Castlebar is a pig sty by any ones standard, let alone European standards.
and just so you know, it is not a city either , so no one is dragging it anywhere

but seeing its been a week since a pointless anti Dublin thread, i suppose you as much as anybody should start it

but come on - CASTLEBAR :rolleyes:

and FYI . Cork , Galway LImerick also have street beggars , chuggers and muggers , maybe not in the same numbers as Dublin , but its a
numbers game , you see , more people live in Dublin , so attracts more pan handlers , so do you see how that works
and shock horror , i have seen beggars and chuggers in London , Berlin , Helsinki - so Dublin is not unique im afraid
this has been a public info broadcast for slightly dumb people - carry on

And with grammar and punctuation like that you've nailed your demographic. It looks like this guy was in charge of typing.

greenheart

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

It's a Dublin issue from my experience, no need to go dragging the other Irish cities into it. A third world capital city by European standards.

Ha Ha, we have it good compared to some cities. Barcelona for one..

brummytom

dj jarvis wrote: »

LOL - say you from Castlebar
Dublin may be in your opinion a 3rd world capital by European standards,
but Castlebar is a pig sty by any ones standard, let alone European standards.
and just so you know, it is not a city either , so no one is dragging it anywhere

but seeing its been a week since a pointless anti Dublin thread, i suppose you as much as anybody should start it

but come on - CASTLEBAR :rolleyes:

and FYI . Cork , Galway LImerick also have street beggars , chuggers and muggers , maybe not in the same numbers as Dublin , but its a
numbers game , you see , more people live in Dublin , so attracts more pan handlers , so do you see how that works
and shock horror , i have seen beggars and chuggers in London , Berlin , Helsinki - so Dublin is not unique im afraid
this has been a public info broadcast for slightly dumb people - carry on

You're not from Dublin by any chance, are you?

Having lived in two cities larger than Dublin (Birmingham and Manchester), and having been to London dozens of times, I have never seen anywhere near as many beggars/chuggers as I have in the centre of Dublin. It can't make a good impression on tourists.

Red Hand

brummytom wrote: »

You're not from Dublin by any chance, are you?

Having lived in two cities larger than Dublin (Birmingham and Manchester), and having been to London dozens of times, I have never seen anywhere near as many beggars/chuggers as I have in the centre of Dublin. It can't make a good impression on tourists.

*Looks directly at brummytom, face lights up, gives him a big smile, extends hand for handshake*

"Hi there, do you have two minutes for Concern?"

woodoo

I never ever give roma beggars money. Chuggers are irritating sometimes its easier to speak to them than ignore them but i still never give them anything.

The only money good causes get from me is if they are selling tickets for a draw and i know the people selling them.

seven_eleven

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Did you forget Waterford? We have a major problem with chuggers down here too.

Do we? I rarely see them.

Tchaikovsky

In Tbilisi the beggar kids actually grab onto your leg while you're walking and don't let go.
Something for everyone to look forward to in Dublin when that business idea spreads.

languagenerd

It's getting worse and worse as time goes on. Before you might have seen one or two chuggers or a couple of groups fundraising, but now there's one every few feet trying to guilt you into giving them money. The thing is, if you gave €2 to every chugger who asked, you'd end up needing to avail of their charity's services yourself!

And as for beggars... It's hard to dismiss them all, because some of them are genuinely in need - but nowadays it's really hard to tell who's actually desperate for money and who's a scammer. I rarely give money to anyone on the street anymore, because you get really sick of people asking and because it's impossible to tell who's scamming you.

Dublin City Council and the Gardaí need to do something about this. You should be able to walk down a street and not be hassled for money by ten or twelve different people. It can be intimidating, especially at night, and it does not give off a good impression for tourists... and tourism is so important for the economy, we need to do everything we can to make sure they keep coming!

road_high

It's definitely gotten worse since 2008. Everywhere I seem to go these days there is sombody with a bloody bucket collecting for something. More often than not it's not even what I would regard as a "Charity". It's usually some local football team, GAA club, or even Musical groups...especially those annoying bag packers that no one wants in the supermarket. I don't see why I should have to pay for someones elses leisure activity....Aldi/Lidl/Superquinn ftw as they don't let these leeches in the door!

Scruffles

working fool wrote: »

Not really confined to Dublin
In slane village last wednsday there was a crowd collecting at the traffic lights
One of them stood in the middle of the road blocking traffic shaking a bucket
Dunno what they where even collecting for no I'd badges or anything .

the ethanol osmose foundation?

kneemos

mfitzy wrote: »

It's definitely gotten worse since 2008. Everywhere I seem to go these days there is sombody with a bloody bucket collecting for something. More often than not it's not even what I would regard as a "Charity". It's usually some local football team, GAA club, or even Musical groups...especially those annoying bag packers that no one wants in the supermarket. I don't see why I should have to pay for someones elses leisure activity....Aldi/Lidl/Superquinn ftw as they don't let these leeches in the door!

I feel your pain with the bag packers.The best one I've seen was for a local boating club.

Tchaikovsky

languagenerd wrote: »

It can be intimidating, especially at night, and it does not give off a good impression for tourists... and tourism is so important for the economy, we need to do everything we can to make sure they keep coming!

And make sure that we keep ripping them off with exorbitant prices; especially as 2013 is the year of The Pisstaking.

Our man in Havana

The problem is as usual there is no decent legislation in Ireland to deal with beggars, chuggers and their ilk. The laws go back to Victorian times and are now totally useless in modern Ireland.

Death and Taxes

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The problem is as usual there is no decent legislation in Ireland to deal with beggars, chuggers and their ilk. The laws go back to Victorian times and are now totally useless in modern Ireland.

I beg (pun intended) to differ, our law on begging is only a couple of years old. (The Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 2011 )