Ownership of fallen wood.

Frere Jacques

Here's a topical one for today.
Say a tree fell on a road near your house about 6 months ago and the council came along and chopped it up to move it but left the trunk in the unfenced woodland adjacent to the road just at the verge. Would it be illegal for a member of the public to take this wood for his/her fire?

RangeR

I wooden think so

Coat, door, gone.

stephendevlin

I wood think so as your trespassing on someones land

Procrastastudy

stephendevlin wrote: »

I wood think so as your trespassing on someones land

Puntastic

aujopimur

Cut a small bit off it every day, nobody will notice it slowly disappearing.

Frere Jacques

aujopimur wrote: »

Cut a small bit off it every day, nobody will notice it slowly disappearing.

I don't think anyone will care about the loss. Plus the woodland is council ground not private.

stephendevlin

Frere Jacques wrote: »

I don't think anyone will care about the loss. Plus the woodland is council ground not private.

So its public property then?

RangeR

stephendevlin wrote: »

So its public property then?

Yup, we've gotten to the Root of the problem. That there is public land. Yew would be a Sap to Leaf it there.

NoQuarter

Frere Jacques wrote: »

Here's a topical one for today.
Say a tree fell on a road near your house about 6 months ago and the council came along and chopped it up to move it but left the trunk in the unfenced woodland adjacent to the road just at the verge. Would it be illegal for a member of the public to take this wood for his/her fire?

Your story isnt very clear, can you truncate it?

davo10

Stealing again?, thought you told us you were turning over a new leaf.

chops018

Well all I know is if I was in that situation I'd be stumped.

Frere Jacques

10 posts and only one with an ounce of sense.

It was a mistake to post here, clearly barking up the wrong tree.
I'll use my better\nefarious judgement on this one and leaf it at that.

Frere Jacques

stephendevlin wrote: »

So its public property then?

Yes Stephen, public property. I'm going to make a few enquiries though to the council next week and see what they say for future reference.

RangeR

Frere Jacques wrote: »

10 posts and only one with an ounce of sense.

It was a mistake to post here, clearly barking up the wrong tree.
I'll use my better\nefarious judgement on this one and leaf it at that.

OaK. Yew are more than welcome. Willow you come back and lettuce know how it goes?

davo10

Frere Jacques wrote: »

Yes Stephen, public property. I'm going to make a few enquiries though to the council next week and see what they say for future reference.

If you ring the Council, ask for Tim Burr, he's the man in charge of the Fallen Tree section.

dilallio

If you call the special-branch, they will let u know.

stoneill

Parks By-Laws 5.1 d.
5.1 Materials, Features, Fittings and Furniture.

No person shall:
(d) Take or remove any soil, sand, gravel, stone or timber from a Park, save with prior written permission of the Council.

Hurmf

stoneill wrote: »

Parks By-Laws 5.1 d.
5.1 Materials, Features, Fittings and Furniture.

No person shall:
(d) Take or remove any soil, sand, gravel, stone or timber from a Park, save with prior written permission of the Council.

I was expecting tree puns but that didn't even branch the idea.

RangeR

Biiiiiirch

davo10

When the chips are down, you can always rely on stoneill for the right answer, even when he's at loggerheads with everyone else, the man is an oak.

Ted_YNWA

did this "supposed tree fall" make any noise ?

Back OT, the tree would retain in the ownership of the land it fell from.

FYI - the land owner would be liaible if a tree falling did any damage to a car / building it fell on.

Not all woodland is state owned BTW.

Wicklowandy

And park bye laws would not apply to woodland

Jimminy Mc Fukhead

If he waits until after dark. I think he can get all that lumber without being twigged.

davo10

I saw it fall, an unfortunate chain of events

Czarcasm

davo10 wrote: »

If you ring the Council, ask for Tim Burr, he's the man in charge of the Fallen Tree section.

Ohh I'm frickin' weak laughing at some of the puns on this thread, in Legal Discussion of all places! :pac:

Pat Mustard

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ohh I'm frickin' weak laughing at some of the puns on this thread, in Legal Discussion of all places! :pac:

Our bark is worse than our bite around here.

stephendevlin

If ya think you can touch that wood you must be outta yer tree!

Pat Mustard

Shady business.

uberalles

If a man is standing in the middle of the forest, speaking, and there is no woman around to hear him... Is he still wrong? 

Frere Jacques

stoneill wrote: »

Parks By-Laws 5.1 d.
5.1 Materials, Features, Fittings and Furniture.

No person shall:
(d) Take or remove any soil, sand, gravel, stone or timber from a Park, save with prior written permission of the Council.

I don't think Park rules would apply to the side of a road which is unfenced. I'll let ye know next week when I ring the council , or knot.

Procrastastudy

I'm surprised anyone is admitting to fallen wood.

Kevin3

Frere Jacques wrote: »

Here's a topical one for today.
Say a tree fell on a road near your house about 6 months ago and the council came along and chopped it up to move it but left the trunk in the unfenced woodland adjacent to the road just at the verge. Would it be illegal for a member of the public to take this wood for his/her fire?

Yes. It's theft under Section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001.

because of

Section 5 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001

(2) A person cannot steal land, or things forming part of land and severed from it by or under his or her directions, except where the person—
....(b) not being in possession of the land, appropriates anything forming part of the land by severing it or causing it to be severed, or after it has been severed

Sam Kade

The tree belongs to whoever owns the ditch it was growing on. If a land owner has land both sides of the road he owns the road, if they have land on one side of the road they own out to the middle of the road.

Kevin3

Sam Kade wrote: »

The tree belongs to whoever owns the ditch it was growing on. If a land owner has land both sides of the road he owns the road, if they have land on one side of the road they own out to the middle of the road.

Is there a source for this or did you hear it in the pub?

Pat Mustard

Sam Kade wrote: »

if they have land on one side of the road they own out to the middle of the road.

If a person owns land and if his boundary ends at the edge of a road, then that's the extent of his ownership. In that case, he will not own out to the middle of the road.

Sometimes, the boundary of the land will be located at the middle of the road, meaning that in those cases, ownership extends to the middle of the road.

It is not universally true that a landowner whose land bounds on a road will own out to the middle of the road.

Sam Kade

The Mustard wrote: »

If a person owns land and if his boundary ends at the edge of a road, then that's the extent of his ownership. In that case, he will not own out to the middle of the road.

Sometimes, the boundary of the land will be located at the middle of the road, meaning that in those cases, ownership extends to the middle of the road.

It is not universally true that a landowner whose land bounds on a road will own out to the middle of the road.

I own land the boundary is the middle of the road. It might not be the case with motorways where the land is purchased but then again you don't see many trees growing at the side of motorways. Even if the land that the op is talking about doesn't extend to the middle of the road the tree was growing on the ditch which is on the landowners property

Frere Jacques

Kevin3 wrote: »

Yes. It's theft under Section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001.

because of

Cheers for that Kevin, but do you think windfall comes in under this. It was never severed, plus I'm wondering if council owned ground falls under this law or was it meant for private property.
Anyway thanks and as I said I'll ring the council and try to get an answer. I have a suspicion the answer will be something like, 'era sure take it away if it's just left there but don't say I said you could.

imitation

Frere Jacques wrote: »

Cheers for that Kevin, but do you think windfall comes in under this. It was never severed, plus I'm wondering if council owned ground falls under this law or was it meant for private property.
Anyway thanks and as I said I'll ring the council and try to get an answer. I have a suspicion the answer will be something like, 'era sure take it away if it's just left there but don't say I said you could.

I can't see how legally you would have a claim to the tree, it does sound like it is council property or possibly the land owners. I don't think there is salvage law for trees either :P

Victor

Wicklowandy wrote: »

And park bye laws would not apply to woodland

Frere Jacques wrote: »

I don't think Park rules would apply to the side of a road which is unfenced. I'll let ye know next week when I ring the council , or knot.

It will of course, depend on the bye-laws.

RainyDay

I'd be interested to hear details of any rules/laws about ownership of leaves etc that fall from Council-owned trees onto private property. Each Autumn, I'm faced with paying for disposal of anything from 5-10 bags of leaves etc that fall into my garden each week.

Frere Jacques

Called to the nearest Council depot, was told that the council would look after the fallen tree at some stage. I asked the man (holding the hatchet splitting logs-I sh*t you not) if I could buy some of the large pile of windfall the man was standing next too and was told, very nice and politely, ah no. I asked what they do with it, "Ah sure tis always going in and coming out".
So yeah, I gleaned that the council lads take it and split it. For all I know it might be used to heat the council yard offices...
Anyway it is far to small a quantity for them to sell it on for comercial purposes.

RainyDay

Frere Jacques wrote: »

So yeah, I gleaned that the council lads take it and split it.

Do you mean they split it into logs, or they split it between themselves?

Frere Jacques wrote: »

Anyway it is far to small a quantity for them to sell it on for comercial purposes.

Makes sense.

Frere Jacques

I meant split as to break up for firewood.