Ghost writers in music

Chin Stroker

People who dont make/write their own music (allegedly), include:

David Guetta
Dr Dre
P Diddy
DJ Tiesto
Sarah McLachlan
Mozart!

and more.

The next time you are whistling along to your favorite melodies there is a great chance your favorite superstar didn’t write a single note, even though they'll be credited as such.

Are there any others out there in the music world that you've heard are just a front for a team of masked producers?

Does it make a difference to the end product for you?

Icaras

I read that Dre has 3 people in separate booths writing lyrics and he picks the ones he likes the best.
Not sure if it is true and not looking for links

jaffacakesyum

I have no problem with artists not writing their own music (although most of my favourite artists write their own stuff), but to not write a single lyric/note and have your name on the credits p1sses me off! In any case, people these days don't care about who wrote it, people are still gonna buy David Guetta's latest single regardless of what's on the credits so why do it?

aaronjumper

Doesn't really bother me either way, I generally like a song for the song and not for who wrote it.

Chin Stroker

Icaras wrote: »

I read that Dre has 3 people in separate booths writing lyrics and he picks the ones he likes the best.
Not sure if it is true and not looking for links

Considering Jay Z apparently wrote all of this (and not just a partial credit) that wouldnt surprise me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CL6n0FJZpk

Sky King

Chopin wrote this in its entirety but it's uncredited.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckMvj1piK58

Irish_wolf

Doesnt really bother me to be honest. I dont understand why they aren't upfront about it though. Sometimes it's just nice to hear someone with a talented voice sing an awesome song. So what if the person who wrote it isn't singing it, nobody gave out to the dubliners for singing songs that could be 50-100 years old. Some people arent great at singing and some people aren't great at writing. The people who write the songs get paid and the person who sings it gets paid, so who loses?

Nobody cares when there's a pub band belting out some old tunes, or some DJ remastering an old song, as long as it sounds good and we can enjoy it does it really make a difference.

That being said I do enjoy that "finish the lyrics" part in Nevermind the Buzzcocks when the guests dont know the words of their own songs.

And while I'm at it, the whole auto-tune thing they're bringing in now, where you dont even need to be a good singer to be called a good singer kind of annoys me. Just a pretty face to sell records. :rolleyes:

JohnMarston

David Bowie wrote 'All the young dudes'

and no, it doesnt make a difference to me

KungPao

aaronjumper wrote: »

Doesn't really bother me either way, I generally like a song for the song and not for who wrote it.

But it's art.

What if you found out that John Smith actually painted the original Mona Lisa and showed it to da Vinci? and he just painted his own version of it.

Or in fact, Mary Doe wrote the screenplay for Pulp Fiction and explained the whole concept to Tarantino? Who then went on to a great movie using someone elses ideas in his name.

Surely that would take away from the experience?

Chin Stroker

Irish_wolf wrote: »

so who loses?

The Ghost writer. Thats the point

If its a worldwide smash they still only get the upfront fee instead of a steady stream of income for life.

aaronjumper

KungPao wrote: »

But it's art.

What if you found out that John Smith actually painted the original Mona Lisa and showed it to da Vinci? and he just painted his own version of it.

Or in fact, Mary Doe wrote the screenplay for Pulp Fiction and explained the whole concept to Tarantino? Who then went on to a great movie using someone elses ideas in his name.

Surely that would take away from the experience?

Not for me. I enjoy something for it's content not the name on the label.

Some Ghost writers do it because they love to do it but do not want to be in the spotlight. They want to hold on to their privacy and anonymity.
Who am I to begrudge them that?

Chin Stroker

aaronjumper wrote: »

Some Ghost writers do it because they love to do it but do not want to be in the spotlight. They want to hold on to their privacy and anonymity.
Who am I to begrudge them that?

Thats not true at all, they do it to pay the bills They have all the sounds and talent it takes to make a hit song but thats rarely enough these days.

An artist has to have a profile and a million $$$ behind them straight away.

aaronjumper

Chin Stroker wrote: »

Thats not true at all, they do it to pay the bills They have all the sounds and talent it takes to make a hit song but thats rarely enough these days.

An artist has to have a profile and a million $$$ behind them straight away.

This is also true I forgot to include the ones that like money. It does help to be backed and good looking.
Stop destroying my romantic view of the world! :pac:

kumate_champ07

probably the most prolific is Tupac Shakur

im invisible

i heard that Shakespeare never wrote all them plays and poems, it was a different guy with the same name

Or in fact, Mary Doe wrote the screenplay for Pulp Fiction and explained the whole concept to Tarantino? Who then went on to a great movie using someone elses ideas in his name.

i dont know, but im sure there are a LOT of people involved in a film from the initial idea to the final product

Chin Stroker

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

probably the most prolific is Tupac Shakur

As a ghost writer for others?

ElvisChrist6

JohnMarston wrote: »

David Bowie wrote 'All the young dudes'

and no, it doesnt make a difference to me

Bowie is credited with that though, so it's a bit different. A lot of people even prefer his version to Hoople's! :P

Strawberry Fields

Anyone remember milli vanilli? They took it one step further by not singing their own songs. They then had to hand back their grammy. It was a real shocker at the time.

KungPao

im invisible wrote: »

i heard that Shakespeare never wrote all them plays and poems, it was a different guy with the same name
i dont know, but im sure there are a LOT of people involved in a film from the initial idea to the final product

Of course. He's good, but everybody needs help making a movie. As long as everybody is credited accordingly and there is no pulling of the wool over one's eyes...

KungPao

godeas16 wrote: »

Anyone remember milli vanilli? They took it one step further by not singing their own songs. They then had to hand back their grammy. It was a real shocker at the time.

I remember THAT dance!

That side-to-side of theirs should have qualified them for that Grammy!

That and the wonderful acting in the beginning of the video of "Girl you know it's true".

Chin Stroker

KungPao wrote: »

Or in fact, Mary Doe wrote the screenplay for Pulp Fiction and explained the whole concept to Tarantino? Who then went on to a great movie using someone elses ideas in his name.

Surely that would take away from the experience?

Its interesting to note that Tarantino was an uncredited Script Doctor (different to a Ghost Writer in that they polish up a story) in many Hollywood blockbusters in his early years. Crimson Tide was one if I remember right.

BetterThanThou

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

Bowie is credited with that though, so it's a bit different. A lot of people even prefer his version to Hoople's! :P

Speaking of Bowie, he's one of my favourite artists, but haven't there been rumours that he didn't write the majority of his songs?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Phil Collins wrote 'Going Loco Down In Acapulco' for the Four Tops.

The Beatles covered 'Twist and Shout', I can't think of the original author.

kumate_champ07

Chin Stroker wrote: »

As a ghost writer for others?

as a ghost

mikom

Ray Parker Junior?

ascanbe

D'fu*k are some idiots on about.
Dr. Dre produced the music and beats on pretty much all NWA's, Eminem's and, obviously, his own productions, amongst many others.
Y'think there's someone else doing the work and giving him the credit for no reason?

'Nowadays everbody wanna talk like they got somethin' to say, but nothin' comes out when they move their lips, just a bunch of gibbesish, and mutha****a's act like they forgot about Dre.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlWLBofObfA

F*cking excellent, underrated rapper, too.

Chin Stroker

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Speaking of Bowie, he's one of my favourite artists, but haven't there been rumours that he didn't write the majority of his songs?

True, Ziggy did

kryogen

Just on the Dr Dre thing, he is renowned as a beats maker, a producer, he has never been hailed as one of the greatest rappers or lyricists out there. He has never pretended to be. He is all about the music

ottostreet

Plastic Bertrand didn't even sing Ca Plane Pour Moi.

The ****er.

ascanbe

kryogen wrote: »

Just on the Dr Dre thing, he is renowned as a beats maker, a producer, he has never been hailed as one of the greatest rappers or lyricists out there. He has never pretended to be. He is all about the music

Absolutely.
Just saying he's kinda underrated, in that regard.

Chin Stroker

Hans Zimmer.

Film score master extraordinaire.

But apparently has teams of people doing work for him that he merely approves.

hidinginthebush

ascanbe wrote: »

D'fu*k are some idiots on about.
Dr. Dre produced the music and beats on pretty much all NWA's, Eminem's and, obviously, his own productions, amongst many others.
Y'think there's someone else doing the work and giving him the credit for no reason?

'Nowadays everbody wanna talk like they got somethin' to say, but nothin' comes out when they move their lips, just a bunch of gibbesish, and mutha****a's act like they forgot about Dre.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlWLBofObfA

F*cking excellent, underrated rapper, too.

Well I'm think he was mentioned since jay z wrote forgot about dre, but is not largely known to have done so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzetQZIvCMc

FWIW I only found out that jay wrote that from this thread, then went looking for the source.

I dont have a huge issue with ghost writing, onceits ackacknowledged. For example, we wouldn't have a lot of pop music (for better or worse), ever, if only the writer were allowed to sing or perform the song.

Arpa

What's with Mozart not composing his own music? Who did it then? I have studied music in Uni for 4 years and can tell you after doing heaps of research on Mozart that there was definitely nobody else writing for him. The only time was when one of his students Sussmayer had to finish off the Requiem mass as he died before completion. Other than that, he is the most prolific composer with over 600 individual works, and each one have personal indicators particular to Mozart. Given his history, it is unlikely that he would have paid others to write music for him as he was for the most part a subject of the courts of Europe and earned his money by composing for rich patrons. It would be self defeating to use what little money he received from these commissions to outsource to others.

Just wanted to clear up that nonsense before it went any further. As for the others mentioned, Dre, Eminem, Guetta...I couldn't care but would not be surprised.

ppshay

A cousin of mine ghost wrote a lot of the music for the Lion King. He's contracted to secrecy. I suppose that's the nature of the job. He would take instructions (sometimes ridiculously vague, he said) from "the boss" and have to come back with something at the end of the day. Then, towards the end, he was just writing away on his own with no outside input whatsoever.

30txsbzmcu2k9w

Nas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ajGU42I0

also wrote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JcmQONgXJM

The guy credited with writing most of Dre´s stuff is an ex-rapper called the D.O.C. who lost his voice in a car crash.
He fell out with Dre which might explain why Dre´s recent stuff has been diabolical.

jimmycrackcorm

I don't understand how people take music so seriously. As if it is something hugely significant and meaningful. Because, if it was then songs in the charts would permanently there.

Brennans bread isd more significant than music and is on the shelves more than any single.

4zn76tysfajdxp

KungPao wrote: »

But it's art.

What if you found out that John Smith actually painted the original Mona Lisa and showed it to da Vinci? and he just painted his own version of it.

Or in fact, Mary Doe wrote the screenplay for Pulp Fiction and explained the whole concept to Tarantino? Who then went on to a great movie using someone elses ideas in his name.

Surely that would take away from the experience?

No. The experience is the experience. Everything else is trivial and peripheral.

WindSock

I don't think anyone has a right to call themselves an artist if they don't create anything themselves.
Performance artist might be more what they mean.

ascanbe

Alvin Square Diesel wrote: »

Nas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ajGU42I0

also wrote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JcmQONgXJM

The guy credited with writing most of Dre´s stuff is an ex-rapper called the D.O.C. who lost his voice in a car crash.
He fell out with Dre which might explain why Dre´s recent stuff has been diabolical.

As ludicrous conspiracy theories go, that's pretty ludicrous.

Really?

There was guy out there, now dead, who was doing this work, but it was being accredited to Dr. Dre, for some mysterious reason?

Isn't it more likely that that's bullsh*t and that Dr.Dre/Andre Young is actually reponsible for the work accredited to him?

Love 'Ether', Nas's take down of Jay-Z, by the way.

Da Shins Kelly

Snoop Dogg and Eminem have also written for Dre. Dre is a producer first and foremost though and is responsible for a lot of the West Coast hip hop sound from the 90s and has produced some of the most famous and instantly recognizable tracks in hip hop. I'm not sure anyone would put him down as an all-time great lyricist or rapper, but the man has a great ear for music.

Da Shins Kelly

ascanbe wrote: »

As ludicrous conspiracy theories go, that's pretty ludicrous.

Really?

There was guy out there, now dead, who was doing this work, but it was being accredited to Dr. Dre, for some mysterious reason?

Isn't it more likely that that's bullsh*t and that Dr.Dre/Andre Young is actually reponsible for the work accredited to him?

Love 'Ether', Nas's take down of Jay-Z, by the way.

The D.O.C isn't dead, and I don't think there's any big secret that he wrote for Dre. He was a huge force behind NWA.

latenia

Also, according to friend of mine who works in the industry, the circuitry in his headphones was actually designed by a team of electronic engineers and he just puts his name on them.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Who wrote Biggie's material?

ascanbe

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

The D.O.C isn't dead, and I don't think there's any big secret that he wrote for Dre. He was a huge force behind NWA.

Knew the name, thought i'd seen a reference to him being dead.
Got that wrong.
But really?
Are people suggesting that Dr.Dre is a fraud and that 'The D.O.C' is, in fact, responsible for the work that everyone accredits to Dr.Dre?
How, or why, would that happen?
I'm sorry, that just sounds like nonsense.

ascanbe

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Who wrote Biggie's material?

Biggins.

4zn76tysfajdxp

WindSock wrote: »

I don't think anyone has a right to call themselves an artist if they don't create anything themselves.
Performance artist might be more what they mean.

Even actors?

kumate_champ07

good actors create their characters, its not just learning lines and 'acting' them out

Da Shins Kelly

ascanbe wrote: »

Knew the name, thought i'd seen a reference to him being dead.
Got that wrong.
But really?
Are people suggesting that Dr.Dre is a fraud and that 'The D.O.C' is, in fact, responsible for the work that everyone accredits to Dr.Dre?
How, or why, would that happen?
I'm sorry, that just sounds like nonsense.

Dr. Dre is a producer first and foremost. He comes up with the whole sound, the beats, the music, all of that. He doesn't write the lyrics though, for the most part. It's pretty much an open secret. The D.O.C was one of the most regular contributors to Dre's work. Dre isn't a fraud as such since he is the creator of the sound and vibe of the album, and then others provide lyrics to go with it. I don't think he's ever pretended to be a lyricist.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

ascanbe

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Dr. Dre is a producer first and foremost. He comes up with the whole sound, the beats, the music, all of that. He doesn't write the lyrics though, for the most part. It's pretty much an open secret. The D.O.C was one of the most regular contributors to Dre's work. Dre isn't a fraud as such since he is the creator of the sound and vibe of the album, and then others provide lyrics to go with it. I don't think he's ever pretended to be a lyricist.

Yeah, get that.
Was responding to someone who seemed to be suggesting that he wasn't responsible for his production work.
Of course he isn't responsible for the lyrics on most, or maybe any, of the tracks he's produced; beyond what he vocalised himself.
Would've thought it was obvious that they were written by those rapping/singing or, possibly, someone else.
This is a ridiculous discussion , but, hey, f*ck it, it's Christmas, i'm still up and i'm drunk.

token101

KungPao wrote: »

But it's art.

What if you found out that John Smith actually painted the original Mona Lisa and showed it to da Vinci? and he just painted his own version of it.

Or in fact, Mary Doe wrote the screenplay for Pulp Fiction and explained the whole concept to Tarantino? Who then went on to a great movie using someone elses ideas in his name.

Surely that would take away from the experience?

Nope. That's just good marketing. Or to put it another way, working and not getting the credit. Happens all the time. You really think Bill Gates had every idea that made Microsoft what it was? Or Steve Jobs made Apple? It's just that people like Simon Cowell and likes are far more open and obvious about it.