Heart Rate Training Zones

godtabh

Just wondering could any one explain what heart rate zones I should be training in.

Based on my age I have a maximum heart rate of 190.

On the bike I usually have a maximum heart rate of 175-180 and average of 150-160. Currently doing on average 180km on the bike a week.

When I am running the maximum heart rate is around 182 with an average of about 160-165 which is achieved through interval training (low high low high low intensity). Currently doing 7-10km every couple of days.

My goals are losing weight and some long distance sportives (100km +) and a triathlon or two.

I'm I doing this right?

colm_gti

godtabh wrote: »

Based on my age I have a maximum heart rate of 190.

Is that your actual MHR, or are you presuming the 220 - your age gives an accurate answer?

I'm 23 so my MHR 'should' be 197bpm, but my actual MHR is 204bpm (measured going absolutely balls out up a long climb until I blew up).

godtabh

Assuming 220-age

catweazle

I assume you have those max heart rates graphed properly, certainly as regards the running it looks like you are pushing a bit too hard if you are averaging in the 160's for all your runs. You have a similar max rate to me, I tend to keep it at aerobic level for a lot of the runs so I would suggest try and keep it in the low 150's and work on your aerobic base particularly at this time of year.

I don't know how often you can run but I would look at a tempo run, an interval run and a long run every week as the three main runs and then some easier ones between if you can, certainly the long run should be more than 10k in the new year if the triathlons will be Olympic distance

Hows your swimming

godtabh

My running consists of mainly treadmills these days.

I usually do 7km during the week with a pace of 4:11 by starting at 12kph up to 17kph with 500m intervals and with a rest inbetween ( drop the heart rate back to 165). At the weekends I might get a 10km in again at 4:11 pace

Glass Prison 1214

Ah good I was hoping for a thread like this, is it normal that their is a huge difference in my max heartrate between when on the bike and running? My max heartrate on the bike is 16 BPM lower then on foot.

triggermortis

heart rate on the bike should be lower as the bike is supporting your weight

Glass Prison 1214

triggermortis wrote: »

heart rate on the bike should be lower as the bike is supporting your weight

I know but I thought I read somewhere that it is supposed to be 5-8 BPM lower on the bike, so I just think my 16 difference seems very big.

Ryder

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

I know but I thought I read somewhere that it is supposed to be 5-8 BPM lower on the bike, so I just think my 16 difference seems very big.

5-8 isn't scintifically accurate...although it will be lower on the bike because of not carrying your bodyweight. Best to do a separate max test on bike and running and calculate separate zones.

To the OP, don't forget rate of perceived exertion as well as HR. When you get used to the intervals and HR zones, you will fond RPE a very accurate guide. As good as HR training is, HR is slow to rise during intervals and then rises continually throughout (drift)...so aim to hit your zone 3-5 mins in

Hmmzis

My suggestion would be to get the LTHR/VO2max test done. Using your MHR is a little bit inaccurate for determining zones, especially if one of those formulas is used. When you have tested for your LTHR then you can use Friel's or any other zones.

Also, when looking at the numbers and times for your running I kind of have a suspicion where your LTHR might be and if I'm anywhere near that value then your average HR is sky high, this is not the time of year to be killing yourself.

If you find it hard breathing through your nose when exercising then in the easy sessions breathe only through your nose, that will prevent you from going too fast in a session that's supposed to be base/recovery. At least for me my nose is like a built in rev limiter, the moment I hit 150bpm (z2 start) I'm having trouble getting enough air in to sustain the effort.

godtabh

Where would you get a LTHR/VO2max test done and at what cost?

Also why is it bad to be pushing yourself at this time of the year? These days my training ,either on the bike or gym, is either to keep fit or to get me from A-B! I like pushing myself!

Plastik

You can do a very basic LTHR field test by warming up, doing a 30min TT effort, press the lap button after 10 minutes and your avg. HR for the last 20min is a good indication of your LTHR. Google Joe Friel HR training zones and using the figure you got during the TT you can work out your various zones.

godtabh

Just have to find somewhere where I can do an uninterrupted 30 minutes!

seamus

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Ah good I was hoping for a thread like this, is it normal that their is a huge difference in my max heartrate between when on the bike and running? My max heartrate on the bike is 16 BPM lower then on foot.

Your max HR should never really vary. It's the rate that your HR hits when you're going all out. So it will be the same for both cycling and running.

However, there will often be a general variance in HR between disciplines such that your HR for an easy run will be higher than your HR for an easy cycle even though you feel like you're putting in the same amount of effort.

This is more or less down to an imbalance in fitness levels between the two disciplines, but most people notice that it's slightly lower on the bike, probably because cycling is less intensive (you can't freewheel while running and you get very little benefit from momentum).

The 220-age calculation for maxHR is exceptionally rough. For me it would be 190bpm. If this was my maxHR, I could only maintain that level of effort for 5 minutes (at an absolute most) before I had no choice but to stop. Instead this is actually race effort for me which I can maintain for 30-45 minutes. My true max is 203bpm.

Outside of having a Vo2max test done, as mentioned above there are a couple of practical ways of getting a rough determination of your HR zones. These will give you a much better result than any online calculators possibly can, to get you started on HR training. Obviously a Vo2max test is the ideal if you want to get properly mapped out.

godtabh

Ok so I have read Joe Friel's Quick Guide to Training With Heart Rate, Power and Pace.

If I'm reading it right to determine my LTHR I need to do a race pace 30 minutes exercise and after 10 minutes press the lap button and get the average for the final 20 minutes.

So my plan is tomorrow morning to do a run and determine it on the thread mil and calculate it.

Then some time next week do the same on the bike once my Garmin Edge 500 arrives just as a comparison.


Looking at my last run on Sunday I did 10km in 41:32 with an average HR of 167 bpm and a max heart rate of 191 bpm. Does this tell me anything?

seamus

godtabh wrote: »

Does this tell me anything?

Not really, except that you're pretty quick
The only way to hit your max HR really is successive sprint intervals, you'll never really hit your max HR when out on a normal training run. Even the average HR doesn't really tell us much as it could have been a slow run, fast run, hard run, easy run, etc.

kuro_man

I really think this is largely a waste of time.

Measure your hr etc by all means but trying to develop a viable training schedule off it has too many pitfalls, not least the lack of precision and individualisation. You are training for 100k sportive or a triathlon so its hardly necessary and may even hold you back. Just go out and ride/run/swim, do your blocks, rest, listen to your body, feel what works for you, and enjoy it.

Lumen

If you're cycling 180km a week and casually running a 41 minute 10k in December then you're already way past the level of preparation you need for 100km sportives.

godtabh

kuro_man wrote: »

I really think this is largely a waste of time.

Measure your hr etc by all means but trying to develop a viable training schedule off it has too many pitfalls, not least the lack of precision and individualisation. You are training for 100k sportive or a triathlon so its hardly necessary and may even hold you back. Just go out and ride/run/swim, do your blocks, rest, listen to your body, feel what works for you, and enjoy it.

thats more or less what i am doing now.

But what I am worried about is over doing it and the consequences of that

godtabh

Lumen wrote: »

If you're cycling 180km a week and casually running a 41 minute 10k in December then you're already way past the level of preparation you need for 100km sportives.

Maybe I should be setting my sights on 200km sportives!

Lusk Doyle

godtabh wrote: »

Maybe I should be setting my sights on 200km sportives!

Do a few races to see where it takes you!

godtabh

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Do a few races to see where it takes you!

Not sure I have the confidence on a bike to race

I'm hoping to do my first competitive road race (running) on the 26th.

seamus

200km will be no issue either, except for the numb arse.

At your level you'll be doing 100km sportives for fun rather than the challenge. I missed that part of your first post. Kuro man is right, unless you're aiming for a specific time, then any kind of structured training just for a 100km sportive is a bit of a waste.

You're right to look at HR in order to avoid pushing yourself too much, but without any specific goals in terms of time then a HR-based training plan will be of limited benefit to you.

godtabh

As next year will be my first season on the bike I've no idea about times.

I'm probably worried about pushing it to hard heart rate wise hence the tread ie i dont want to go over 190 bpm if it may cause me damage

Lusk Doyle

seamus wrote: »

200km will be no issue either, except for the numb arse.

At your level you'll be doing 100km sportives for fun rather than the challenge. I missed that part of your first post. Kuro man is right, unless you're aiming for a specific time, then any kind of structured training just for a 100km sportive is a bit of a waste.

You're right to look at HR in order to avoid pushing yourself too much, but without any specific goals in terms of time then a HR-based training plan will be of limited benefit to you.

I've stopped a good while back using my hr monitor. I find it an unnecessary distraction. If my lungs hurt or my legs hurt or I'm all over the bike chewing handlebar tape or pedalling squares then I know I'm pushing it too hard. I can feel it. I suspect that everyone can. I don't need to look down at the garmin to suddenly realise "Oh dear, I seem to have strayed into a higher heart rste zone than I had originally intended to."

Heart rate zone training is in my mind for high end or elite athletes and us mortals shouldn't base our training on it. Ride by feeling.

godtabh

I'm far from an elite athlete but I am an engineer and I like to review data to assess progress.

For example last year I ran about 1500 km this year it's about 850km but I've added about 2500km on the bike.

The HR data is just another set of data. It doesn't dictate my training but it is a reference point.

I did the test this morning. 5 minute warm up. Then flatout* for 30 minutes with a 10 and 20 minute lap. The average heart rate for the 20 minute lap was 180.

*i picked a pace that I could maintain but I think I could do it again at a slightly higher pace. I'll use it as a starting point.

Hmmzis

Great stuff, well done! Now you have a fairly decent indication of what your LTHR is. Based on this number (180) you can establish your training zones. Each training zone stimulates particular parts of your metabolism and causes your body to adapt accordingly.

Here are Friel's zones (I'm using them in my training):

http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2009/11/quick-guide-to-setting-zones.html

Here are some tables that describe the benefits of staying in a particular zone:

http://www.pbscience.com/training-articles/factsheets/574-the-physiological-basis-of-the-training-zones.html

Hope this helps.

manwithaplan

Heart rate is a good guide for the kind of training cyclists do in the winter. You can stay in zones 1/2 on longer rides and you can also see where your HR begins to climb despite the fact that you aren't going any faster. This 'cardiac drift' is a good way to monitor your endurance - the longer you ride before it happens, the better your endurance is. If you can ride the distance of your longest planned race without it happening, you have pretty much completed your base training. HR is also good for longer threshold TT efforts and threshold intervals.

Having said that, I think Lusk Doyle has a point and most of us can do fine based on perceived effort. HR is pretty useless for short intense intervals and it can be a bit all over the place anyway. I have started doing a bit on the turbo in the early morning and my heart doesn't seem to know I have woken up for the first while. If I was to ignore that and hammer myself to raise my HR I wouldn't be training effectively, so I just go by perceived effort until my heart is in daytime mode.

So what gets around the variables? The answer is a power meter, and as an engineer you are morally obliged to buy one!

On the whole, in your position I wouldn't bother too much with all this measurement and monitoring. Even the uber-nerds seem to agree that the best thing to do in your first couple of years cycling is to just ride your bike and enjoy it. You don't need any great structure in your training to start racing, never mind sportives. Just ride your bike a lot and the improvement will come. You will learn a bit from events and broadly know where you are. You can add the tyranny of a training plan after a couple of years when your improvement slows down.

godtabh

manwithaplan wrote: »

So what gets around the variables? The answer is a power meter, and as an engineer you are morally obliged to buy one!

I would have bought one if I could afford one!

kuro_man

http://www.allanbesselink.com/blog/smart/946-training-myths-heart-rate-training

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/don-t-be-a-slave-to-heart-rate-training-zones-40533

Heart rate training zones are meaningless unless they are identified from the blood lactate response to incremental exercise.

seve65

manwithaplan wrote: »

I have started doing a bit on the turbo in the early morning and my heart doesn't seem to know I have woken up for the first while. If I was to ignore that and hammer myself to raise my HR I wouldn't be training effectively, so I just go by perceived effort until my heart is in daytime mode.

I have days on end where I wont be able to get any higher than about 93% of max HR when flat out. Right now that is also correlating to lower performance, this would not have been the case a few months ago where performance was ok without reaching anywhere near the max HR. Give it a break for a few days and there is a good chance I will be able to get a lot closer to the max HR.

Interesting chat here:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/54334/difficulty-reaching-target-heart-rate

Lusk Doyle

godtabh wrote: »

I'm far from an elite athlete but I am an engineer and I like to review data to assess progress.

For example last year I ran about 1500 km this year it's about 850km but I've added about 2500km on the bike.

The HR data is just another set of data. It doesn't dictate my training but it is a reference point.

I did the test this morning. 5 minute warm up. Then flatout* for 30 minutes with a 10 and 20 minute lap. The average heart rate for the 20 minute lap was 180.

*i picked a pace that I could maintain but I think I could do it again at a slightly higher pace. I'll use it as a starting point.

Not exactly flat out then was it?

Brian?

godtabh wrote: »

I would have bought one if I could afford one!

He's right though. Power meters are where it's at when it comes to data. I had a lend of one(and the bike attached) a while ago, it's a real eye opener.

godtabh

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Not exactly flat out then was it?

Ah I was close enough.

godtabh

Sorry to bring this up again. I'm looking to do a LTHR test. can anyone recommend a good TT course around DUBOIN 18/Wicklow to carry out the LTHR test?

MajesticDonkey

godtabh wrote: »

Sorry to bring this up again. I'm looking to do a LTHR test. can anyone recommend a good TT course around DUBOIN 18/Wicklow to carry out the LTHR test?

Have a look on Strava for a good 20km flat segment...

colm_gti

godtabh wrote: »

Sorry to bring this up again. I'm looking to do a LTHR test. can anyone recommend a good TT course around DUBOIN 18/Wicklow to carry out the LTHR test?

The N81

54and56

I hope resurrecting this thread isn't a problem but it's on topic so here goes, please feel free to move/close admonish me if necessary Mods!!

So I just turned 50 and have had an intermittent fitness regime over the years which generally involved gym based cardio 2-3 times a week and 5km - 10km runs (not breaking any speed records) at the weekends.

That changed 4 years ago when the cartilage ruptured in my knee when on a treadmill one morning. 12 months and one operation plus lots of physio later my running days were over and my cycling days had begun so now my typical week is 2 spin classes, a general weights program 3 times a week and one 80km - 120km cycle with my local club Sunday morning, again not breaking any speed records.

I'm 183cm and currently 96kg which I would like to reduce to 90kg or a bit lower.

I recently invested in a Heart Rate monitor (£25 delivered) and to test it out this morning I did a particularly challenging Spin class which really pushed me to my limit on a few occasions i.e. I was close to quitting the particular sequence to do a recovery but I stuck with it. I was (and still feel an hour later) completely wrecked which is good.

These are the HR results from the session. HR training is completely new to me so I'll gather some data over a few more classes, read up on how to train efficiently and hopefully train better as a result but in the meantime I'd be interested to get opinions from people here as to what they think is good/bad about the data, where I should be looking to improve or what I should try and avoid etc.








The app I'm using BTW is https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.myworkouts