DISGUSTING! HSE killing cats in Galway

tomfodge

http://www.galwaynews.ie/29334-pest-control-company-removes-wild-cats-uhg

Horrible in this day and age

Pumpkinseeds

I agree, there are animal rescue groups in Galway doing fantastic trap neuter and return work in the Galway area. What the HSE are doing is barbaric and unnecessary:mad:

Fighting Irish

I'd do the same thing

Pumpkinseeds

Nobody feed the troll

Cuddlesworth

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I agree, there are animal rescue groups in Galway doing fantastic trap neuter and return work in the Galway area. What the HSE are doing is barbaric and unnecessary:mad:

Fleas transmit a variety of diseases. In a environment like a hospital, this could prove to be lethal for most patients with already compromised immune systems. The problem needs to be removed. They also point out in the article that rehoming is a option. I'm not sure where the hatred is coming from, they are targeting a very specific problem in a very specific area.

GreeBo

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Nobody feed the troll

So killings cats is bad but starving trolls is ok?


The cats are unwanted and causing a problem for the hospital.

Fighting Irish

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Nobody feed the troll

Someone with a different opinion than you isn't a troll :rolleyes:

People think life is a lot more important than it is for certain creatures. In my opinion life isn't all that important for any species on this earth, even humans

DBB

Folks, threads like this always, always descend into mayhem. I would love to see just one that doesn't go the same way. So, may I remind all posters to post in a civil manner to one another, there is to be no more flaming.
Failure to adhere to the forum and boards charters, and attempts to rile other posters, will result in warnings and bans.
Please, let's see a mature, balanced debate here:).
Thanks,
DBB

Chuck Stone

<snip>

GreeBo

In an attempt to have a balanced debate, perhaps the "DISGUSTING!" should be removed from the thread title?
It kinda makes it appear that only views of a certain opinion are allowed in here, which I'm assuming is not the case?

Indricotherium

Chuck Stone wrote: »

<snip>

I'm far from a cat hater, but the cars in question here have gotten to pest levels and are causing a problem so while it is far from my taste or preference I can see that it is necessary.

SillyMangoX

Is it really necessary to have them put to sleep? Can they not be part of a TNR scheme, treated for fleas and rehomed? The only thing removing ferals from an area does is create room for more ferals to move in. In all likelihood, the fleas would have got carried in by someones pet, this time of year wouldnt be great for flea survival outside, I would think it more likely someone working there has an infestation in their home.

im invisible

I was six when I first saw kittens drown.
Dan Taggart pitched them, 'the scraggy wee ****s',
Into a bucket; a frail metal sound,

Soft paws scraping like mad. But their tiny din
Was soon soused. They were slung on the snout
Of the pump and the water pumped in.

'Sure, isn't it better for them now?' Dan said.
Like wet gloves they bobbed and shone till he sluiced
Them out on the dunghill, glossy and dead.

Suddenly frightened, for days I sadly hung
Round the yard, watching the three sogged remains
Turn mealy and crisp as old summer dung

Until I forgot them. But the fear came back
When Dan trapped big rats, snared rabbits, shot crows
Or, with a sickening tug, pulled old hens' necks.

Still, living displaces false sentiments
And now, when shrill pups are prodded to drown
I just shrug, 'Bloody pups'. It makes sense:

'Prevention of cruelty' talk cuts ice in town
Where they consider death unnatural
But on well-run farms pests have to be kept down.

SERGEANT.

It's necessary whether people agree with it or not.

unseenfootage

The article says that they have been in touch with the GSPCA so maybe they have been advised that putting some of the kitties down is an option.

They have a hard enough time keeping humans alive, we can't expect them now to take care of animals.

girl in the striped socks

It is absolutely necessary to remove the cats from the grounds of the hospital if they are causing problems. There is no question that it is the correct thing to do.
I understand that people may find euthanasing them cruel but a point comes when it is the only solution left. It's certainly not a nice thought but patient & staff safety cannot be compromised & if no homes or rescues can be found for the cats then what can anyone else suggest is done with them?
They could be neutered & released again but realistically that's not cost effective for all of them. And that's the world we live in. It's cheaper to euthanise the cats.
I suggest anyone who can offer one of those cats a home gets in contact with the pest control company that's contracted to capture them.

boomerang

So far I have not seen a shred of evidence to connect the presence of cats on the grounds of the hospital with people getting flea bites in the outpatients' department. The cats may not even have fleas! And you certainly cannot get close enough to a feral cat to have a flea hop on you! Far more likely that a visitor's pet at home has fleas, and brought them into the building on their person.

Humans, dogs, hedgehogs, foxes, rats... All carry fleas.

Just wait til they eradicate the cats and have to call in Rentokil again because of the rat problem!

borderlinemeath

boomerang wrote: »

So far I have not seen a shred of evidence to connect the presence of cats on the grounds of the hospital with people getting flea bites in the outpatients' department. The cats may not even have fleas! And you certainly cannot get close enough to a feral cat to have a flea hop on you! Far more likely that a visitor's pet at home has fleas, and brought them into the building on their person.

Humans, dogs, hedgehogs, foxes, rats... All carry fleas.

Just wait til they eradicate the cats and have to call in Rentokil again because of the rat problem!

That's the first thing that I thought of. Kill the cats and the rat population will just explode. I know which I would far rather have around.

unseenfootage

Its pretty standard for hospitals, restaurants, supermarkets and so on to have pest control, whether they have cats on their premises or not. The article clearly says that the cats only turned up a couple of weeks ago. That is why they're linking the fleas to the felines and not to dogs and foxes.

GreeBo

Was there a rat problem prior to the recent cat problem?
- No.
So why would you assume a lack of cats will create a rat problem?
- Screwy logic.

boomerang

Again, without a shred of evidence, to my knowledge, unseenfootage. That's what bothers me. It seems to me the hospital are embarrassed and want to be seen to be act. The cats are the scapegoats here, whether they deserve it or not.

Removing the cats really won't solve the problem. First of all, there'll be no deterrent against rodents. Next, more cats will come in to fill the vacuum.

boomerang

The cats act as an effective rat deterrent.

Remove the cats, rats will increase in numbers, particularly if there are food sources.

ck83

boomerang wrote: »

So far I have not seen a shred of evidence to connect the presence of cats on the grounds of the hospital with people getting flea bites in the outpatients' department. The cats may not even have fleas! And you certainly cannot get close enough to a feral cat to have a flea hop on you! Far more likely that a visitor's pet at home has fleas, and brought them into the building on their person.

Humans, dogs, hedgehogs, foxes, rats... All carry fleas.

Just wait til they eradicate the cats and have to call in Rentokil again because of the rat problem!

It seems from reading the article that maybe the vet who examined them after they were captured might have seen evidence of fleas

unseenfootage

They could get dogs to keep the cats at bay.

boomerang

unseenfootage wrote: »

The article clearly says that the cats only turned up a couple of weeks ago. That is why they're linking the fleas to the felines and not to dogs and foxes.

I've been told that at least 15 cats were trapped today.

I'm sorry, but feral cats in those numbers don't just arrive en masse. The cats have likely been there all along.

Ferals are largely crepuscular, making it difficult to estimate how many there are in a location.

boomerang

unseenfootage wrote: »

They could get dogs to keep the cats at bay.

The discussion is getting somewhat surreal

GreeBo

boomerang wrote: »

The cats act as an effective rat deterrent.

Remove the cats, rats will increase in numbers, particularly if there are food sources.

Again, then why was there no rat problem before there was a cat problem?

boomerang

ck83 wrote: »

It seems from reading the article that maybe the vet who examined them after they were captured might have seen evidence of fleas

I don't get that impression at all, ck. And even if some of the cats do have fleas, I cannot see how the fleas were transmitted to some of the staff in the building. It makes no sense at all.

girl in the striped socks

Assuming some pencil pusher in the hospital isn't a cat hater & there is a good reason for them to be captured & removed, what do people suggest they do with the cats if they don't euthanise them?

boomerang

Please explain to me what threat to human health and safety the presence of cats pose? What problems are they posing? We still have no firm link between the cats and some staff in outpatients' having fleas.

Actually, it is both cheaper and more effective to neuter the cats and return them than it is to have Rentokil continually trapping the cats and passing on their fees and the veterinary costs of euthanasia to the HSE.

Euthanasia is not the only solution here. It's not even the best solution.

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

It is absolutely necessary to remove the cats from the grounds of the hospital if they are causing problems. There is no question that it is the correct thing to do.
It's certainly not a nice thought but patient & staff safety cannot be compromised & if no homes or rescues can be found for the cats then what can anyone else suggest is done with them?
They could be neutered & released again but realistically that's not cost effective for all of them. And that's the world we live in. It's cheaper to euthanise the cats.
I suggest anyone who can offer one of those cats a home gets in contact with the pest control company that's contracted to capture them.

Indricotherium

As to the imagined rat problem, I'm sure a hospital that is putting down cats en masse, will have no issue with eradicating other animals that are pesting them.

boomerang

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Assuming some pencil pusher in the hospital isn't a cat hater & there is a good reason for them to be captured & removed, what do people suggest they do with the cats if they don't euthanise them?

Simple. Volunteers trap the cats and bring them to their vet, who offers their services at a reduced rate. The cats are health-checked, neutered and returned 24 hours later.

Now you have a stable population of healthy cats, who won't reproduce and won't let any more un-neutered, parasitised cats in. Gradually, the number of cats decreases naturally by attrition.

unseenfootage

Apart from the issue with the fleas, the HSE has full right to not want wild cats on its premises.

Even if puss in boots turned up at my doorstep, uninvited I'd be like "Begone furball!"

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

Please explain to me what threat to human health and safety the presence of cats pose? What problems are they posing? We still have no firm link between the cats and some staff in outpatients' having fleas.

Actually, it is both cheaper and more effective to neuter the cats and return them than it is to have Rentokil continually trapping the cats and passing on their fees and the veterinary costs of euthanasia to the HSE.

Euthanasia is not the only solution here. It's not even the best solution.

If they capture 50 cats today then those cats are not automatically replaced tomorrow by other cats. If a vet charges €30 consult fee & then €5 per cat per injection then it is much cheaper than neutering them. It's not a long term solution, chances are other cats will find their way to the same spot eventually, but it is cost effective.
The hospital & the pest control company are looking at those cats as a nuisance, not as pets or potential pets.

TheChizler

boomerang wrote: »

Simple. Volunteers trap the cats and bring them to their vet, who offers their services at a reduced rate.

Not to be pointing out flaws or anything...

Iwannahurl

Replace the word Cat with Rat and see how the story reads:

PEST CONTROL COMPANY TACKLES RAT INFESTATION PROBLEM AT GALWAY HOSPITAL

The HSE West has called in a pest control company to eradicate rats from the grounds of University Hospital Galway.

They've also confirmed this evening that the problem of fleas at the hospital was caused by rats.

A number of staff working in the outpatient department at UHG have been bitten by fleas recently, however there is no sign that patients have been affected.

The HSE has now identified that the bites were caused by rat fleas, and that rats infesting the grounds and outbuildings are one possible source.

It's a Public Health problem and needs to be tackled (should never have been allowed to develop of course).

Why should a feral cat infestation be handled any differently?

tightropetom

boomerang wrote: »

Please explain to me what threat to human health and safety the presence of cats pose? What problems are they posing?

Ever heard of toxoplasmosis?

Also
A colony of unneutered/unspayed feral cats can produce a number of problems, including:

a growing population of cats
frequent and loud noise from fighting and mating behavior
strong foul odors from unneutered male cats spraying to mark their territory
flea infestations
visible suffering from dying kittens and injured adults.
In addition, the shelters in a community with a large, unneutered feral cat population may experience:
higher intake rates of cats into shelters due to the rescue of feral kittens and the capture of feral adults
higher euthanasia rates for all cats due to the unadoptability of feral adults and the necessity to euthanize adoptable animals due to limited cage space
higher animal control costs due to trapping efforts and/or costs associated with caring for and euthanizing feral cats
a constant rate of nuisance complaints about feral cats.

#justsayinlike

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

Simple. Volunteers trap the cats and bring them to their vet, who offers their services at a reduced rate. The cats are health-checked, neutered and returned 24 hours later.

Now you have a stable population of healthy cats, who won't reproduce and won't let any more un-neutered, parasitised cats in. Gradually, the number of cats decreases naturally by attrition.

I can understand that but where does the money come from even at a reduced rate?
Neutering & re release would be ideal. Cats do an important job, you don't need to be a cat lover to acknowledge that much.
But considering most, if not all, rescues are either full to capacity or have very low funds who pays for it? Maybe the volunteers have the time & expertise to capture the cat but they don't have the funds to neuter it? And a veterinary practise is a business looking to make money, offering reduced neutering costs may not be high on their agenda.

boomerang

Volunteers = Galway Cat Rescue, Limerick Feral Cats, Mayo Cat Rescue, EGAR etc etc - any number of volunteer groups around the country willing to help out.

Reduced vet fees: All the above groups have pre-arranged reduced neutering fees with the vets they regularly work with. It varies from 25 to 50 euro per cat, depending on which vets are used. I guarantee you that is cheaper per cat than paying Rentokil to trap it and a vet of their choice to euthanise it.


The toxoplasmosis risk from cats is actually surprisingly low. You are far more likely to contract it from handling raw meat or eating undercooked meat or unwashed vegetables. Regardless, I doubt the staff and patients at the hospital are going out into the grounds to dig out cat poop from the soil with their bare hands?

Indricotherium

Kellford wrote: »

The HSE forgot to mention the mice that have been spotted in there, maybe its these carrying the fleas!

That mouse comment is a red herring. IT doesn't change the fact that there is a problem population of cats there.

boomerang

tightropetom wrote: »

Ever heard of toxoplasmosis?

Also
A colony of unneutered/unspayed feral cats can produce a number of problems, including:

a growing population of cats
frequent and loud noise from fighting and mating behavior
strong foul odors from unneutered male cats spraying to mark their territory
flea infestations
visible suffering from dying kittens and injured adults.
In addition, the shelters in a community with a large, unneutered feral cat population may experience:
higher intake rates of cats into shelters due to the rescue of feral kittens and the capture of feral adults
higher euthanasia rates for all cats due to the unadoptability of feral adults and the necessity to euthanize adoptable animals due to limited cage space
higher animal control costs due to trapping efforts and/or costs associated with caring for and euthanizing feral cats
a constant rate of nuisance complaints about feral cats.

#justsayinlike

That's why we neuter 'em!

Irish rescues do not take in feral cats as they are not adoptable. It's not like in the States where feral cats can be surrendered to an animal control or animal rescue group, with the likelihood that they will all be euthanised to make room for more adoptable cats.

Rescues here favour neutering the cats and returning them to their location. In some instances where the cats are in immediate danger they are relocated where they're wanted.

boomerang

Indricotherium wrote: »

That mouse comment is a red herring. IT doesn't change the fact that there is a problem population of cats there.

What is the problem?

What is the difference between an unowned cat on one side of the UCGH fence, and someone's pet cat in an adjoining estate, who likes to ramble around the grounds?

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

Volunteers = Galway Cat Rescue, Limerick Feral Cats, Mayo Cat Rescue, EGAR etc etc - any number of volunteer groups around the country willing to help out.

Reduced vet fees: All the above groups have pre-arranged reduced neutering fees with the vets they regularly work with. It varies from 25 to 50 euro per cat, depending on which vets are used. I guarantee you that is cheaper per cat than paying Rentokil to trap it and a vet of their choice to euthanise it.


The toxoplasmosis risk from cats is actually surprisingly low. You are far more likely to contract it from handling raw meat or eating undercooked meat or unwashed vegetables. Regardless, I doubt the staff and patients at the hospital are going out into the grounds to dig out cat poop from the soil with their bare hands?

So where are all the volunteers so?
I assume the hospital would prefer for them to remove the cats than have to pay someone like rentokil?

ISDW

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

So where are all the volunteers so?
I assume the hospital would prefer for them to remove the cats than have to pay someone like rentokil?

I think they may be visible pretty soon

girl in the striped socks

boomerang wrote: »

I didn't say anything about removing the cats.

How do you neuter them if you don't remove them?

boomerang

Relocating the cats is always a last resort, for a number of reasons.

What the volunteers do is trap the cats, transfer them in the traps to their vets for neutering, keep the cats overnight and return them within 24-48 hours. No question of removing the cats permanently except in extreme circumstances where the cats might otherwise be in danger.

GreeBo

Since you are ignoring the question on the impending rat infestation I'll assume you have no recourse.

Moving on.
Why on earth would you want a colony of wild cats living beside a hospital? Isnt that going to attract more cats, neutered or otherwise? You dont see any health issue with wild animals living on hospital grounds?

boomerang

I have the data for you GreeBo, but I have to go pull it out when I'm home. I'm not ignoring the question.

Cats are territorial. They don't readily accept newcomers. That's why by having the existing cats neutered and left in situ stops the population from growing any bigger.

There are no significant health issues to having a population of neutered, monitored "wild cats" living on hospital grounds, any more than there would be a health issues with local, pet cats being on the hospital grounds. These cats aren't truly "wild" - they're just terrified of people. Other than that they're the very same as any domestic moggy.

GreeBo

boomerang wrote: »

I have the data for you GreeBo, but I have to go pull it out when I'm home. I'm not ignoring the question.

Cats are territorial. They don't readily accept newcomers. That's why by having the existing cats neutered and left in situ stops the population from growing any bigger.

There are no significant health issues to having a population of neutered, monitored "wild cats" living on hospital grounds, any more than there would be a health issues with local, pet cats being on the hospital grounds. These cats aren't truly "wild" - they're just terrified of people. Other than that they're the very same as any domestic moggy.

There is no data thats going to show that removing cats causes an infestation of vermin when there was no vermin before.

Going on your previous logic, wouldnt this posse of cats be leaving numerous dead vermin around the hospital grounds? Or do they tidy up after themselves once they have been neutered?
Not to mention the defecating/urinating about the place? Cats piss is great stuff for the kids.
Also wouldnt they be constantly trying to get into the nearest source of food i.e. inside the hospital?

Who are the magical people doing the monitoring btw? More of your "volunteers"?
Perhaps we should cut the hospital by a couple of doctors to pay for some volunteers?

boomerang

You know what GreeBo, it's actually not worth my time or effort giving you the scientifically-verified facts on rat biology and behaviour, or feral cats or how ferals can be successfully managed humanely. You don't seem to know a lot about feral cats because you ask questions that to me appear naive, yet you seem to have a keen urge to disprove my points, regardless.

I take serious offence at your sneering tone with regard to volunteerism in cases like this. I am sure it comes as some some surprise to a lot of people, but yes, responsible management of neutered feral colonies involves constant monitoring to ensure none of the cats are sick, that they have adequate food and shelter, that no un-neutered cats have entered the area, and that the cats are routinely treated for worms, fleas etc. It also involves having an ongoing relationship with the people in the area to address any concerns. This is what unpaid volunteer TNR groups do, all the time.


Feral cats are terrified of people and contrary to popular opinion, they would rather go hungry than chance entering a building with lots of people in it to find food. They're not malevolent, scheming or vicious. They're not going to maul you or eat your children. They're just scared cats.

Cats don't like to eat rats, but some with a strong hunting instinct will stalk and kill them. Rats instinctively recognise cats as predators by their smell - where there are cats, rat colonies are reduced in numbers and will dissipate altogether.

Cat pee and cat poo poses no greater risk than that of dogs, rabbits, foxes, hedgehogs, garden birds, mice or any of the other animals that can be found on the grounds of a hospital or any other green area in an urban setting. In fact, for the most part, cat pee and poop poses far less of a risk. I could go into the zoonotic risks associated with these individual species and discuss their signficance in terms of public health, but I couldn't be bothered, just for your sake.

boomerang

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Fleas transmit a variety of diseases. In a environment like a hospital, this could prove to be lethal for most patients with already compromised immune systems. The problem needs to be removed. They also point out in the article that rehoming is a option. I'm not sure where the hatred is coming from, they are targeting a very specific problem in a very specific area.

Hospital management have apologised for any "discomfort" or worry caused by the flea infestation in the outpatients' department. This is not a serious disease outbreak. Heck, they still haven't even told us which species of flea they are dealing with.

If the infestation were to spread to the wards, I would seriously have to question the standard of hygiene in the hospital.

4,000 people visit the outpatients' department every week. I guarantee you it was either a patient or member of staff that brought the first fleas in with them. I haven't seen any cats on hospital trolleys lately. Fleas are obligate parasites and are highly unlikely to transfer to another host unless there is direct contact. That's why I find it impossible to believe that some cats on the hospital grounds that flee human contact are somehow responsible.