Radiator not heating up!!!

mad dad

Hi,
Radiator in living room is not heating up properly. The system is working fine in general but when I turn on living room rad the hot water only barely enters the rad. If I feel about an inch into the rad near the thermostatic valve I can feel its perfectly hot but it's not travelling across the rad. After about an hour this heat will only marginally creep across the rad and the rad is barely warm overall yet the pipe out on the far side of the lockshild valve is completely cold. I'm happy that the thermostatic valve is opening and working fine and I've never had a problem with sludge. Could the lock shield valve be jammed shut? I've opened it fully and gave it a few bangs but the pipe out of the rad the far side of the valve remains cold and never warms up as if the water can not get out of the rad. I should say the rad is in a room that is not normally used so is only turned on very occasionally. Can this occur even though the lock shield valve feels normal and free when turning - has anyone come across this before and is only solution to drain system and replace valve or am i missing something else?.


Thanks in advance,
Maddad

aujopimur

mad dad wrote: »

Hi,
Radiator in living room is not heating up properly. The system is working fine in general but when I turn on living room rad the hot water only barely enters the rad. If I feel about an inch into the rad near the thermostatic valve I can feel its perfectly hot but it's not travelling across the rad. After about an hour this heat will only marginally creep across the rad and the rad is barely warm overall yet the pipe out on the far side of the lockshild valve is completely cold. I'm happy that the thermostatic valve is opening and working fine and I've never had a problem with sludge. Could the lock shield valve be jammed shut? I've opened it fully and gave it a few bangs but the pipe out of the rad the far side of the valve remains cold and never warms up as if the water can not get out of the rad. I should say the rad is in a room that is not normally used so is only turned on very occasionally. Can this occur even though the lock shield valve feels normal and free when turning - has anyone come across this before and is only solution to drain system and replace valve or am i missing something else?.


Thanks in advance,
Maddad

Open the TRV and give metal part of the valve a sharp whack with a spanner or something similar as its probably stuck.

gdavis

unscrew head off trv and make sure pin pushes in and pops back out (press with flat of coin or similar).if it seems to be working.turn off few rads on circuit and see if it heats,i presume u have vented the rad? if still nothing get back on here and we talk u through next phase lol

mad dad

Hi,

Thanks for fast replies. Yeah the rad is bled and no air. The trv is also working. When trv is turned on the water runs up the pipe and I can feel it red hot on the rad side of the valve - but it doesn't travel any further into the rad. It's a double panel rad and the ball on the rad side of the trv gets red hot but the water doesn't travel further into either panel.
To confirm I have checked the pin in the trv and is working - the hot water is going through it into the ball in the bottom of the rad in between both panels.
I have turn off all rads except this one and problem still exists


Thanks again
Mad dad

shane0007

I think they meant remove the head of the TRV completely by unscrewing it. There is probably a dribble getting through it, hence the hot pipe but not enough getting through it.

mad dad

Hi shane0007,

Yes I have removed head and checked pin. I had done all this before my first post.


Thanks,
Mad dad

shane0007

Ok. Take the cover off the lock shield valve and with a small spanner, turn on and off quickly repeatedly.
If this does not work, turn off all other rads and the balancing valve on the hw coil, counting and remembering the turns.
If this does not work, it sounds like sludge.

gdavis

or turn off both sides of rad,place towel on floor at lockshield side and position black bag under nut on rad side of valve,gently crack open nut anti cwise a couple of threads til u get drop of water.now u can check rad valves in turn by opening and closing valves quickly u should get small surge of pressure into bag.only do this if u competent diy'er and know where fill valve etc. is. It may actually be easier to knock off both valves,place towels down and drain rad into heavy duty bag from loosening the nut on rad side of valve til empty.opening vent will help drain rad but dont forget to tighten it before removing rad.when removing rad u may need second pair of hands,place thumb over connections and flip upside down if u get my drift.be extremely wary of any carpets etc.as could be black sludge in rad.with rad now put outside u can check rad valves work by opening quickly into bag over towel,u can also flush out rad with hose or similar,when u happy,connect rad,open valves,making sure to fill back system with what u took out.i.e fill and vent all rads.this may be only a short term solution if sludge in ur system

mad dad

Shane0007,

Job done thanks. The quick repeated on/off of the lock shield appears to have solved problem. As I said initially I only occasionally use this room/rad. Obviously valves stiffen up over time.


One final question - is there any lubricant I can put on trv pin to keep it free moving so it doesn't stiffen - i.e wd40 or grease??


Thanks a lot
Mad dad

shane0007

mad dad wrote: »

Shane0007,

Job done thanks. The quick repeated on/off of the lock shield appears to have solved problem. As I said initially I only occasionally use this room/rad. Obviously valves stiffen up over time.


One final question - is there any lubricant I can put on trv pin to keep it free moving so it doesn't stiffen - i.e wd40 or grease??


Thanks a lot
Mad dad

Lock shield is more dirt caught in it than stiff.
Turning on and off the TRV's on a regular basis will normally keep them free.

gdavis

jaysus shane after my short story u rob the glory:)

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Lock shield is more dirt caught in it than stiff.
Turning on and off the TRV's on a regular basis will normally keep them free.

Totally off topic but shane, Just bought TDS meter. Tested my mains water and its coming in at around 400 ppm. Is This a crazy reading? I remember you saying around 30-50 was normal??maybe I'm mistaken ?
Thanks

shane0007

Dtp79 wrote: »

Totally off topic but shane, Just bought TDS meter. Tested my mains water and its coming in at around 400 ppm. Is This a crazy reading? I remember you saying around 30-50 was normal??maybe I'm mistaken ?
Thanks

That is off the scale. Sounds like a faulty TDS meter or requires re-calibration. It should have come with calibration fluid. Test the TDS of your mains cold water at kitchen tap to compare. Generally, in very sludged systems, I see between 120 and 190. Mains water is generally 10 - 35, depending on area, mains or well, etc.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

That is off the scale. Sounds like a faulty TDS meter or requires re-calibration. It should have come with calibration fluid. Test the TDS of your mains cold water at kitchen tap to compare. Generally, in very sludged systems, I see between 120 and 190. Mains water is generally 10 - 35, depending on area, mains or well, etc.

Thanks for the reply Shane. I tested ballygowan and other mains waters. The lowest ppm was around 260. Should I be dividing by 10?

shane0007

No, a reading of 100 is actually 1,000ppm so multiplied by 10! Does your TDS meter come with calibration fluid. If so, get the reading of the liquid. It should read 940ppm but it will tell you the ppm on the bottle. Make the adjustments required on the calibration adjustment screw so it reads the ppm of the fluid.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

No, a reading of 100 is actually 1,000ppm so multiplied by 10! Does your TDS meter come with calibration fluid. If so, get the reading of the liquid. It should read 940ppm but it will tell you the ppm on the bottle. Make the adjustments required on the calibration adjustment screw so it reads the ppm of the fluid.

No it came with no fluid at all. Is that fluid hard to come by?

shane0007

I don't know. Mine came with the meter. Is there a calibration adjustment screw on your meter? If not, I would take it back.
What make is it and where did you get it?

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

I don't know. Mine came with the meter. Is there a calibration adjustment screw on your meter? If not, I would take it back.
What make is it and where did you get it?

Yes there is a calibration screw on it.got it on eBay along with a ph tester. Would I be mad to try and calibrate it using mains water. Tune it down to around 20!!?

shane0007

You could try as at the moment it is useless. Do you know anybody else with one and get a reading of your mains and set to that? What area are you in?

Failing that if I remember, I will buy a bottle of Ballygowan tomorrow and test that and let you know! You can then buy one and calibrate to that. Hopefully, Ballygowan is from Ballygowan and coming from the same source!

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

You could try as at the moment it is useless. Do you know anybody else with one and get a reading of your mains and set to that? What area are you in?

Failing that if I remember, I will buy a bottle of Ballygowan tomorrow and test that and let you know! You can then buy one and calibrate to that. Hopefully, Ballygowan is from Ballygowan and coming from the same source!

So they say anyway!! Thanks for that Shane. Appreciate your help. I'm located in Mountrath by the way

shane0007

I will be back up there in the new year so I can bring my fluid with me. Until then, I will test Ballygowan for you. I just checked my calibration and it is spot on.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

I will be back up there in the new year so I can bring my fluid with me. Until then, I will test Ballygowan for you. I just checked my calibration and it is spot on.

Sound thanks. Ill re imberse you for the water if I see you !

shane0007

Oh hang on, I am really thick! You have 400ppm. You are getting a correct reading. My meter reads at ppm x 10 therefore my meter reading 40 is actually 400ppm. My own water is from a well and is 35 so that is 350ppm. Hmmm..... Now I feel stupid....

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Oh hang on, I am really thick! You have 400ppm. You are getting a correct reading. My meter reads at ppm x 10 therefore my meter reading 40 is actually 400ppm. My own water is from a well and is 35 so that is 350ppm. Hmmm..... Now I feel stupid....

Ah not so bad. Thought I was goin mad. So 350 on my meter is ok for mains then?

shane0007

Should be. Town mains varies a lot too. Depends on the area. 350 is high for mains though but I have seen it.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Should be. Town mains varies a lot too. Depends on the area. 350 is high for mains though but I have seen it.

Water is pretty hard around here. Thanks again for the help

Dtp79

Dtp79 wrote: »

Water is pretty hard around here. Thanks again for the help

Was using my tds meter today Shane. Mains read about 530 ppm. I tested heating water after flush and it was 470. When I tested heating water when it was dirty the reading was 485. My meter must be wrong surely?

shane0007

Yes as you cannot get a lower reading than the mains. I have also never seen mains as high as 530ppm. Highest i have seen would be in high 300's. I done one in Castleknock yesterday and system was completely blocked solid. It was reading 1,780ppm! Got it within 15% of mains, 250ppm.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Yes as you cannot get a lower reading than the mains. I have also never seen mains as high as 530ppm. Highest i have seen would be in high 300's. I done one in Castleknock yesterday and system was completely blocked solid. It was reading 1,780ppm! Got it within 15% of mains, 250ppm.

1780 is high. Mine won't even go that high. Only 3 digits so 999 is max. Think ill throw it away and buy proper one

shane0007

Mine also has only 3 digits but all readings are x10.

I got mine from Fernox and has been accurate for past couple of years. I check intermittently with the calibration fluid that comes with the meter. They give them out free when you join their Fernox Powerflushing Club but you might have to have bought one of their machines if my memory serves me correct. You can still buy them from them if not.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

Mine also has only 3 digits but all readings are x10.

I got mine from Fernox and has been accurate for past couple of years. I check intermittently with the calibration fluid that comes with the meter. They give them out free when you join their Fernox Powerflushing Club but you might have to have bought one of their machines if my memory serves me correct. You can still buy them from them if not.

Ye I had a look at fernox but there only giving away a free water tester jar!! Does that photo make any sense to you?

shane0007

It is saying it is same as mine 0-9990ppm as it is also x10.
The dual range seems to be for more accurate lower ranges, within 10ppm readings.

Post a picture of the unit itself.

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

It is saying it is same as mine 0-9990ppm as it is also x10.
The dual range seems to be for more accurate lower ranges, within 10ppm readings.

Post a picture of the unit itself.

No brand name. Only TDS

shane0007

This is my one

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/fernox-total-dissolved-solids-meter--tds-/
http://www.plumbase.com/tprod78607/section1805/fernox-tds-meter.html

http://www.fernox.com/files/Fernox/Content/PDF/English/TDS%20Meter.pdf

Dtp79

shane0007 wrote: »

This is my one

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/fernox-total-dissolved-solids-meter--tds-/
http://www.plumbase.com/tprod78607/section1805/fernox-tds-meter.html

http://www.fernox.com/files/Fernox/Content/PDF/English/TDS%20Meter.pdf

Thanks Shane

Dtp79

Dtp79 wrote: »

Thanks Shane

If you get a chance could you test ballygowan. I'd like to see for sure how far mine is off

Dtp79

Dtp79 wrote: »

If you get a chance could you test ballygowan. I'd like to see for sure how far mine is off

Just tested ballygowan. Mine is coming in at 423 ppm