Hydration on the slopes

SuprSi

I'd like to pick up a Camelbak or similar bag for my holiday next year as I've fallen a few times with water bottles in my rucksack and it hasn't been particularly pleasant!

The thing is, I need it to be able to hold some basic stuff as well, like a couple of extra layers of clothing, a pair of socks, hat, gloves and some chocolate, etc. Any recommendations?

Peace

SuprSi wrote: »

I'd like to pick up a Camelbak or similar bag for my holiday next year as I've fallen a few times with water bottles in my rucksack and it hasn't been particularly pleasant!

The thing is, I need it to be able to hold some basic stuff as well, like a couple of extra layers of clothing, a pair of socks, hat, gloves and some chocolate, etc. Any recommendations?

Wouldn't the bladder rupture if you landed on your back with a Camelbak? That would definately be less than ideal.

SuprSi

Peace wrote: »

Wouldn't the bladder rupture if you landed on your back with a Camelbak? That would definately be less than ideal.

I was thinking about that, but with a bit more room to move inside the bladder I'd hope it wouldn't happen. I've had a bottle of water burst on me before when I fell flat on it, but just figured that the bladder could spread the load and not pop!

Rew

I use a Camelbak MULE:

http://shop.camelbak.com/2012-mule/d/1009

bladder is pretty will protected but the secret to bladders is to take the air out of the bladder after filling it. To do that you fill the bladder try not put too much air in, close it up, then turn it upside down (so that the end the tube is attached to is up) and suck the air out though the tune till you get water.

This makes it much harder to burst and also means it wont slosh around when your moving.

The other then you need to do is buy an insulated tube or insulated tube cover. The Official Camelback one is expensive as an add on! I bought a 3rd party insulated cover off ebay and it was fine however the mouth piece does still tend to freeze in cold temps. There are ways to deal with that but it a bit fiddly. CamelBak do specific winter/ski packs that come with the insulated tube. They do a couple of different bite valves and one has a protective lid that might help with the bite valve freezing issue.

Jonnykitedude

I use a Dakine heli pro with a bladder inside. Never burst on me and I have taken some pretty nasty falls!

As Rew said take all the air out, works a treat!

Ole Rodrigo

I dont want to sound antagonistic, but there shouldn't be much need for water and snacks unless you're going off piste. You should have about a 2 hour capacity for moderate intensity exercise before needing to refuel. And theres plenty of places in most resorts to grab something.

The less you have with you on the slopes the better, IMHO.

Northern Monkey

Sport pursuit have a couple of camelbaks on offer at the minute

http://www.sportpursuit.com/sales/camelbak-hydration-packs

Jonnykitedude

ror_74 wrote: »

I dont want to sound antagonistic, but there shouldn't be much need for water and snacks unless you're going off piste. You should have about a 2 hour capacity for moderate intensity exercise before needing to refuel. And theres plenty of places in most resorts to grab something.

The less you have with you on the slopes the better, IMHO.

Yeah plenty of places that you can spend 25 quid on a lunch, 25x6=150 then you have your dinner that night too.....thanks but i think ill stick with my camel pack, ham sambo and my milka bar!!

stevire

I picked up a Trespass backpack for €20 in one of the trespass stores. Same job as the camelbak, used it plenty of times for snowboarding and racing. The Zumba model is the one I got:

http://www.trespass.co.uk/hiking/bags/hydration-packs

robinph

Have used a Dakine Heli Pro with a Camelbak and insulated tube before and had no problems with it bursting or anything however much you fall over. The sloshing around isn't really a problem, and anyway the best way of preventing the water in the tube is to blow air back into it after taking a drink as the insulation will not help when it gets really cold.

I've now taken to just carrying a small bottle of water around in a jacket pocket and then refill it if needed at lunch. With all the pockets in my jacket and sallopetts there is no shortage of space to carry stuff, and I need to carry a fair amount of medical gadgetry and emergency food supplies on me when out on the slopes. I have managed to limit things enough that I don't bother with a bag anymore though.

SuprSi

Thanks for the feedback. So there's no real issue just picking up any decent rucksack and sticking a bladder in it? I hadn't really thought of that but it seems like a great idea.

CardinalJ

ror_74 wrote: »

I dont want to sound antagonistic, but there shouldn't be much need for water and snacks unless you're going off piste. You should have about a 2 hour capacity for moderate intensity exercise before needing to refuel. And theres plenty of places in most resorts to grab something.

The less you have with you on the slopes the better, IMHO.

Very much depends on how you ski....

I have a camelbak with 3L capacity and regularly use it all.

The bags are great not just for skiing. Use mine mountain biking, hiking etc. Great investment.

Rew

SuprSi wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. So there's no real issue just picking up any decent rucksack and sticking a bladder in it? I hadn't really thought of that but it seems like a great idea.

Ideally you want one that you can hang the bladder internally so that it doesn't bunch up in the bottom of the bag and has an opeing to let the tune out but in reality you can get away with any rucksack and bladder. I find the camelbak good as its slim and fitted so doesn't impede me sitting on chair lift and doesnt slip or slide around on my back.


I use it for Adventure Racing, MTB, sking and running.

Rew

ror_74 wrote: »

I dont want to sound antagonistic, but there shouldn't be much need for water and snacks unless you're going off piste. You should have about a 2 hour capacity for moderate intensity exercise before needing to refuel. And theres plenty of places in most resorts to grab something.

The less you have with you on the slopes the better, IMHO.

You would want to be more carful of your advise BTW. Water and hydration is fundamental to maintaining performance during exercise at any level. The 2 hours before refuelling is related to calorie intake to maintain performance over prolonged periods and 2 hours is normally whats quoted as the limit before performance is impacted.

The reality is a weeks skiing is essentially a week long endurance event. Depending on the person there is a good chance you are burning more calories then your taking in. Carbs little and often is a much better strategy than 3 just meals a day.

Fattes

Yep camelback in a good backpack designed to take one Dakine Heli pro's are expensive but indestructible, and will last forever. Any Camelback bigger than 2 liters is excessive

Make sure the bag has a hole to run the drink tube through so you don't have to ski around with your bag open at all.

Little tip place your camelback in a plastic bag inside your backpack helps with spillage's!

I do have to ask why extra socks?

SuprSi

Fattes wrote: »

I do have to ask why extra socks?

I'm not sure! I re-read my OP and I think I was thinking about the fact that a rolled up pair of socks is a decent size, so included it!

Ole Rodrigo

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

Yeah plenty of places that you can spend 25 quid on a lunch, 25x6=150 then you have your dinner that night too.....thanks but i think ill stick with my camel pack, ham sambo and my milka bar!!

Thats a fair point on food, it can be expensive in certain resorts. I would still aim to keep it as light as possible ( and wouldn't lug water around with me anyway )

Rew wrote: »

You would want to be more carful of your advise BTW. Water and hydration is fundamental to maintaining performance during exercise at any level. The 2 hours before refuelling is related to calorie intake to maintain performance over prolonged periods and 2 hours is normally whats quoted as the limit before performance is impacted.

The reality is a weeks skiing is essentially a week long endurance event. Depending on the person there is a good chance you are burning more calories then your taking in. Carbs little and often is a much better strategy than 3 just meals a day.

At a recreational level, skiing and snowboarding are low level cardio exercises. You're unlikely to get dehydrated if you have a base fitness, certainly none that would require you to drag around liters of water. If you've been out all night enjoying apres ski, that maybe different . Same goes for carbohydrate - better off relying on 3 good meals than sugary snacks all week to keep you going. If you think thats bad advice well just for a start observe any regular or experienced skier / boarder and see how much they carry with them ( off piste being the exception ), and its not because they are super athletes by any stretch. A person with a base level of cardio fitness can exercise for up to two hours at a low to moderate level before needing carbohydrate to replenish glycocen stores in their muscles. This person can also exercise at that level for that time without needing water ( assuming they are hydrated beforehand ). In any case, its not something to be worried about for a holiday, its not a marathon race across the Arctic ffs. You're not going to be left gasping on a mountain top awaiting a rescue helicopter because you didn't bring your mars bar and hydration pack

robinph

When you are skiing most of the day is spent sitting on a lift, stood in a queue or stood on the side of the slope waiting for your mates to catch up. This is interspersed with periods of no more than probably 3 minutes at a time of activity which is not actually that intense, but does use muscles that you haven't used for the previous 51 weeks of the year.

I'll still take some water and food with me, but not loads.

Rew

ror_74 wrote: »

At a recreational level, skiing and snowboarding are low level cardio exercises. You're unlikely to get dehydrated if you have a base fitness, certainly none that would require you to drag around liters of water. If you've been out all night enjoying apres ski, that maybe different . Same goes for carbohydrate - better off relying on 3 good meals than sugary snacks all week to keep you going. If you think thats bad advice well just for a start observe any regular or experienced skier / boarder and see how much they carry with them ( off piste being the exception ), and its not because they are super athletes by any stretch. A person with a base level of cardio fitness can exercise for up to two hours at a low to moderate level before needing carbohydrate to replenish glycocen stores in their muscles. This person can also exercise at that level for that time without needing water ( assuming they are hydrated beforehand ). In any case, its not something to be worried about for a holiday, its not a marathon race across the Arctic ffs. You're not going to be left gasping on a mountain top awaiting a rescue helicopter because you didn't bring your mars bar and hydration pack

Altitude acceleraties dehydration even when not exercising (not to mention the effect of apres ski). The experienced borders and skiers you mention are using a lot less energy due to better technique. So I think its very poor advise to tell someone not to bring some water and carbs. There unlikely to die but they are likely to feel rotten and not realise why. A weeks skiing is a lot of exercise, burning a lot of calories over a longer period then most people would be used to.

Its not hard to dig up nutrition and hydration advise for winter sports that says drink a lot of water and make sure you get the calories in. These guys reckon al ot of people are dehydrated before they even start the day:

http://www.onthesnow.com/news/379/a/106470/staying-hydrated-on-the-ski-hill-improve-performance-and-endurance

Ole Rodrigo

Most resorts have lively an apres ski scene which most package holiday makers will indulge in to some extent. From that point of view its no surprise that next morning they are less hydrated than they would have been otherwise.

Rew wrote: »

So I think its very poor advise to tell someone not to bring some water and carbs

I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what to do, so I'll clarify what I mean. What I mean is there is no need to bring extra water and carbs with you, on the slopes, for a recreational holiday - you will certainly not be in any danger without them. If you are thirsty, drink. If you are hungry - eat. Your body wont suddenly pack in because you don't have a camelbak, it'll get you to the nearest cafe with plenty of change. There are plenty of opportunities in every resort that wont break the bank.

Human beings have thrived without sugary snacks and hydration packs for hundreds and thousands of years, without dying off or feeling bad, in all manner of environments during all manner of activities. Fruit and Veg provided all the required carbs for a long long time. Its not about to suddenly change with the advent of nutritional sports science, research funded by food companies and clever internet marketing strategies.

But if bringing that stuff provides you with greater enjoyment and peace of mind - knock yourself out it's your holiday. Speaking from a fair bit of boarding experience and that of others with much more than I have, a lighter load is a more enjoyable, whether you tumble clumsily down the mountain or glide across the runs like some Alpine Gazelle :pac:

You also mentioned ' performance ' . That is overstating things a bit. We're not talking about an amateur or pro or semi pro endurance event - and even then cutting edge nutritional science only offers the slimmest of marginal gains. Its a holiday. And if the experience shows up your lack of physical conditioning, then work on it for the next holiday, it will be worth it. ( but ffs don't research how to do it on the internets )

That is all