Mike McCarthy leaves Connacht for Leinster

its_phil

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1212/1224327776078.html

Complete and utter frustration does not summarise it up for me or I'm sure the majority of Connacht fans.

No begrudging of Mike because he is an ambitious man and IMO the most consistent player in Ireland. I can only wish him well and hope he earns more caps and the cups he deserves. I do have a feeling he could be a Lions bolter. That would be one of the proudest moments in Connacht Rugby history if he managed that. It isn't impossible either. I also have no doubt he won't take the eye of the ball like Carr did towards the end of his time here.

Everyone was well aware their would be clubs sniffing around, but it is so bloody frustrating for it to keep being Leinster. Another one of Connachts most important players is gone, and it is such a tiring process at this stage. Leinster have inherited a player right at the peak of his game.

The line needs to be drawn at some point and I believe it should be drawn when players like Buckley, Layden, Griffin, O'Halloran, McKeon, Henshaw, Marmion and Qualter who have come through our own system. If these types of players start being taken away then the IRFU may as well just called Connacht a glorified Leinster/Munster/Ulster feeder team.

If the IRFU really want to see Connacht on their own two feet, they need to start making sure the McCarthys and Cronins of Connacht Rugby are staying out West.

A sad headline in a fantastic week.

macslash

:O

Devastated..echo everything its_phil said above. It's sad for Connacht, but more so the IRFU. Best of luck to Macca. Was hoping it wouldn't happen though.

Utopia Parkway

Very frustrating as a Connacht fan alright. I would also be seriously worried that we will eventually lose most of the young emerging backs as well in a couple of years time. Even though they are mostly native Connacht lads. If they are any good at all and Connacht have no HEC they will have their heads turned.

Hagz

Well, as a Leinster fan, this has somewhat settled my nerves with regard to finding a lock for next season. My condolences to Connacht fans of course.

I don't really see what the IRFU can do about these kind of things, unless they literally ban Leinster from signing anymore Connacht players...

its_phil

Hagz wrote: »

I don't really see what the IRFU can do about these kind of things, unless they literally ban Leinster from signing anymore Connacht players...

Well if the IRFU can sanction NIQ transfers surely they can have a say in domestic transfers.

For example if McCarthy had recieved a central contract from the IRFU at Connacht, it would been a massive boost show of support for Connacht.

Hagz

It's an odd one alright, there are many factors at play. The needs of each province, the desires of each player and of course financial issues.

One problem I see is that if the IRFU were to say to Leinster and the other provinces that they cannot continue to pilfer Connacht's talent, then would Connacht not lose the overflow of players they receive from such provinces? What fringe player would go to Connacht if their chances of returning to their original province is greatly reduced?
Added to that, an argument could be put forward that it is at least positive that these players are not going abroad, and are strengthening an Irish province (albeit one that needs the least help) rather than a foreign one.
I think it all boils down to what the player wants and I think ultimately that outweighs everything else.

There's three things that nail down a player: money, pride and success. Connacht aren't lacking in pride, and I'm sure that's something that will help keep the current crop of youngsters. Judging by the article, they were able to match Leinster financially, so Connacht's lack of success, or rather Leinster's abundance of it seems to have been the deciding factor.

Trojan

Hagz wrote: »

Well, as a Leinster fan, this has somewhat settled my nerves with regard to finding a lock for next season. My condolences to Connacht fans of course.

I don't really see what the IRFU can do about these kind of things, unless they literally ban Leinster from signing anymore Connacht players...

Ban Leinster from signing Connacht and NIQ players. In fact, the only clubs they can sign players from should be Ulster and Munster

fanki na pengin

Hagz wrote: »

There's three things that nail down a player: money, pride and success.

100% this. Also, while it definitely must hurt for Connacht and Connacht fans, think of the positives of the last few seasons. If you hadn't had such success in matches like Quinn's or Biarritz, it could be more players leaving. Think of the likes of Nathan White and Dan Parks heading out west. Things are definitely in transition (for the better) in Connacht, but you're always going to see players go (for various reasons) that you don't want to leave.

3 off the top of my head in Leinster: Hines, White, Rocky.

Best to take the Elwood action of suck it up, adapt, move on and make it better in an attempt to make sure it doesn't happen again.

gally74

Best of luck to macca,

This was an irfu call

If he gets a central contract, it's a poor reflection on conn.

[Jackass]

Great signing for Leinster, but it's not right. Pronvinces shouldn't be allowed each others front line players, unless its an academy player going with a view to coming back in a couple of seasons.

Feel for Connacht fans. They deserve better from the IRFU.

TheKeenMachine

As a Leinster fan, this is fantastic news to wake up to. However, I really feel for Connacht, this is a huge blow, particularly now when they are on the cusp of becoming truly competitive both at home and in Europe.

galwaybucko

what a traitor is all I can say, hope he enjoys the Dublin traffic

Podge_irl

Not exactly the long term solution at lock I was hoping for.

freyners

For Macca, going to Leinster allows him the opportunity to play with the top team Europe and win some deserved silverware before he hangs up his boots. It also allows him to cement his place in the Ireland set-up. To call him a traitor in this is nothing short of disgraceful and I would hate his memories to be tarnished by a few people calling him that or our memories of him to be tarnished by this transfer.

I've been expecting this since the AIs so I wasn't shocked to see this story, at the end of the day if Leinster came in with an offer, it was going to be hard for a player of his calibre to say no, regardless of any counter offer we made. Its hard to see this trend of players leaving us and although it pisses me off greatly that we once again another obstacle has been put in our way of becoming a top club, the fact of professional sports is these things happen and we have to move on, replace and adapt

Shelflife

Ok we need to look at a few facts.

macca is 31,playing the best rugby of his career. Lets assume he was offered a similar if not the same package from Connacht.

He would still be mad not to go, if he has any ambition at all Leinster is the obvious move.
Hes not going to win anything with Connacht ,he has the chance to win **** loads with Leinster.
In his position its the correct move.

My only caveat would be if Leinster subsequently signed another top class lock or two and were basically raiding the cookie jar and leaving none for anyone.As long as any province isnt buying up players then thats fine by me.

We need to get over this "OUR" player crap as well.In the professional era just because you are born in Mayo ,Cork or Wicklow no longer means that you BELONG to any province. While its nice if a local player comes through the ranks from playing mini rugby in Ballina,thats where it ends.

We have no right to have Duffy playing for us or Leinster have no right to have O Brien playing for them, as things stand we will win nothing in the next few years and players who want to win medals WILL leave to what they see as greener pastures as is their right.

We are getting there,but its going to be a slow process, this is a minor and not unexpected glitch in the works, we need to deal with it and move on in a professional manner and less of the whinging.

I wish Macca the best, a true gentleman and someone who left nothing behind him when he wore the green of Connacht.

tolosenc

As a Leinster fan, I'm divided on this. On the one hand: Yay we have a good new lock for next season, on the other: I wish we weren't stealing him from Connacht.

While I'm not for a second suggesting that this is what happened, what if a French club came sniffing, and the only way the IRFU could keep him in the country was for him to make the switch east?

I also think this adds some credence to the "Mike Ross to Munster" rumours that have been flying around.

Podge_irl

tolosenc wrote: »

While I'm not for a second suggesting that this is what happened, what if a French club came sniffing, and the only way the IRFU could keep him in the country was for him to make the switch east?

Its what happened with Hagan supposedly (though an English club in that case).

Don't see the connection to Ross. Macca is, unfortunately, not the first first-choice player to leave Connacht for another province. Its never happened to Leinster/Munster (not saying I definitely think it won't mind you, no smoke without fire and all that. Just don't see the connection).

Heroditas

galwaybucko wrote: »

what a traitor is all I can say, hope he enjoys the Dublin traffic

Bet you weren't calling him that when he left Newcastle to come back to Connacht.

Banbridgeman2

Interesting that the IRFU matched the contract offer from Connacht as well. I think it implies that there was interest from abroad and the IRFU were desperate to keep him in Ireland.

Podge_irl

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Interesting that the IRFU matched the contract offer from Connacht as well. I think it implies that there was interest from abroad and the IRFU were desperate to keep him in Ireland.

My reading of the article would imply its a provincial contract, not a central one. Though difficult to know until its officially announced.

justsomebloke

Lads I know this will be an emotive subject for some but can we please keep it civil

eyeball kid

Best of luck to Macca. Gutted to see him leave but I don't think any Connacht fan would begrudge him the chance of a bit of silverwear. He's given it all to Connacht for the last few years and been a great professional.

Suppose it was to be expected since the AI's. His performances all season for Connacht have been great and it was only inevitable that someone would come sniffing around.
Maybe we should ask some of the other lads on the team to tone it down for a few months :pac:

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

My reading of the article would imply its a provincial contract, not a central one. Though difficult to know until its officially announced.

I don't think that they'd have space for a 4th central contract for second rows?

POC
Ryan
DOC

Winters

Delighted as a Leinster fan to have secured a player like Mike McCarthy but wish it had been someone else (and someone younger) and that he had stayed with Connacht.

In reference to Connacht fans paining over the loss of their player, at least it wasnt a player like Henshaw or someone that has come up through the academy? The day Ulster, Leinster and Munster sign academy players from one another is a bad sign.

wp_rathead

Macca noooooooooooo! I'm sorry I made fun of you knocking on the ball 5 times in the Biarritz match..

Gutted he is leaving, was prob our best player over the past 2 and a half seasons..

If the guy wants to play for Leinster, then not much the IRFU can do about..
However, if he is given a Central Contract and turns out this option wasn't given to him at Connacht then shame on them

Be tough seeing him line out for Ireland though with "Leinster" as his club, sooner we get McSharry and Marimon into Irish team the better

galwaybucko wrote: »

what a traitor is all I can say, hope he enjoys the Dublin traffic

BS!!! Been great servant for Connacht- and watch him give it his all for the rest of this season. #ligind

d-gal

Absolute joke from the IRFU, they really see this island as a 3 province country, would have stayed if IRFU actually helped fund this. Shame on them and cannot wait for the line 'IRFU have nothing to do with it' from a certain poster who is part of them. Actually think its a poorish signing for Leinster, its a quick fix for a couple of years.

The only comfort is that Kearney and Browne next year could form a savage partnership. Reckon Swift could be retiring soon, another legend but the legs are slowing!

dregin

d-gal wrote: »

Absolute joke from the IRFU, they really see this island as a 3 province country, would have stayed if IRFU actually helped fund this.

As has been mentioned already, and is actually in the first paragraph of the linked article, Connaucht matched the financial offer from Leinster. Money had nothing to do with the move.

Tox56

d-gal wrote: »

Absolute joke from the IRFU, they really see this island as a 3 province country, would have stayed if IRFU actually helped fund this. Shame on them and cannot wait for the line 'IRFU have nothing to do with it' from a certain poster who is part of them. Actually think its a poorish signing for Leinster, its a quick fix for a couple of years.

The only comfort is that Kearney and Browne next year could form a savage partnership. Reckon Swift could be retiring soon, another legend but the legs are slowing!

But I don't think they did? It sounds from the article like he was offered the same contract from Leinster and Connacht, and he chose Leinster.

I don't agree with pilfering talent either, but if a player genuinely wants to play for a province (not certain this is the case, but it would make sense) the IRFU can't simply tell him not to.

I agree with the idea that a line needs to be draw in some way, I think the biggest thing right now is that Connacht don't lose the talented young players they have developed themselves.

thomond2006

It's not the best use of resources for McCarthy to leave, but you can't blame him. Calling him a traitor or a Judas is extremely insensitive. He's not going to win silverware nor is Heineken Cup rugby guaranteed with Connacht, had Connacht not been in the Heineken Cup for the last two seasons I doubt McCarthy would have become an Irish starter. He wants to retain his Irish spot and undoubtedly moving to Leinster will help that. A professional athlete has to put himself first at the end of the day to maximise what he gets out of the sport and you can't say McCarthy hasn't given his all for Connacht over the years. I think I'm right in saying McCarthy was offered a move to Leinster a few years ago too?

Connacht eventually recovered from losing the Big 4 of Cronin, Hagan, Keatley and Carr. They'll get over this too, IIRC their other key players are under contract. It's just disappointing from their perspective that a big name is leaving, had McCarthy stayed it would have been a big statement from Connacht that they have become a viable proposition for a player's full career.

Commenting on what the IRFU could/should have done isn't really relevant, since we don't know how much power they have over this. I'm fairly sure they cannot offer an international contract as an enticement to move, so I don't think McCarthy is getting a top level contract in moving to Leinster. Perhaps it works the same way when two provinces are fighting for a signature? I don't know.

Taco Corp

d-gal wrote: »

Absolute joke from the IRFU, they really see this island as a 3 province country, would have stayed if IRFU actually helped fund this. Shame on them and cannot wait for the line 'IRFU have nothing to do with it' from a certain poster who is part of them. Actually think its a poorish signing for Leinster, its a quick fix for a couple of years.

And what if McCarthy wanted to leave? Would you want the IRFU to step in and force him to stay at Connacht? As disappointing as it is for Connacht, they would be a lot worse off if they had players in the squad that didn't want to be there.

Teferi

d-gal wrote: »

Absolute joke from the IRFU, they really see this island as a 3 province country, would have stayed if IRFU actually helped fund this. Shame on them and cannot wait for the line 'IRFU have nothing to do with it' from a certain poster who is part of them.

Nonsense.

Connacht matched the offer. The IRFU cannot force a player to go where he wants.

CatFromHue

I'm speculating here but if Connacht offered a contract I'd imagine the IRFU would have told Leinster to only match it. Otherwise there would have been a bidding war between the IRFU and itself.

freyners

http://www.connachtrugby.ie/2012121283125/mccarthy-to-leave-connacht-rugby
confirmed by connacht

CatFromHue

freyners wrote: »

http://www.connachtrugby.ie/2012121283125/mccarthy-to-leave-connacht-rugby
confirmed by connacht

Tom Sears explained “We have been aware of Leinster’s interest in Mike for some time. It is disappointing they have persistently targeted Connacht players in recent years, particularly when often not in the best interest of Irish Rugby.”

Meow!

Grimebox

Creating a ban on transfers such as these is laughable

irishbucsfan

[Jackass] wrote: »

Great signing for Leinster, but it's not right. Pronvinces shouldn't be allowed each others front line players

So you would prefer if teams from France/England signed the top Connacht players rather than Leinster/Munster?

And in truth teams from France/England won't be able to entice a guy like McCarthy who wants to protect his international career, so you'll be putting these players in a position where the IRFU can dictate contract terms to them which isn't exactly fair on the players either.

I think it's a shame for Connacht that this is the way it has to be in the short term. I certainly wouldn't blame McCarthy for wanting to play for one of the best teams in Europe before he retires. However the fact that there are great local guys coming through now is a bit of an indication that this may not always be the way of things. Maybe Damien Browne can go the other way (given where he's from etc.)?

It's a great signing for Leinster. He's a great player in a position of need. Does this put to bed the rumours of a SH lock signing for next season? The idea that Leinster might sign another guy on top of this raises a few questions.

super_furry

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it's a shame for Connacht that this is the way it has to be in the short term.

But how do things change in the long term if they keep having their best players taken away?

Podge_irl

super_furry wrote: »

But how do things change in the long term if they keep having their best players taken away?

None of the players they've lost in the last couple years have actually been Connacht developed players.

Fishooks13

He did his time with Conn, and was more than loyal. He's getting on now so it's only right that he would take the opportunity to move to a club where he can have a chance of winning a HC. Best of luck to him.

From a Leinster point of view I think it's a bad signing. Fantastic lock alright, but given his age I think the money could have been spent on someone younger with a view to the long term

ssaye

Fishooks13 wrote: »

He did his time with Conn, and was more than loyal. He's getting on now so it's only right that he would take the opportunity to move to a club where he can have a chance of winning a HC. Best of luck to him.

From a Leinster point of view I think it's a bad signing. Fantastic lock alright, but given his age I think the money could have been spent on someone younger with a view to the long term

Couldn't Leinster just get that person in 18 months to 2 years whoever it may be and continue. Its very tough to get an HEC Level or even better International level player who fits the bill of age/price/experience etc. I expect the scouts to find a player ala Bent in due time.

irishbucsfan

Fishooks13 wrote: »

He did his time with Conn, and was more than loyal. He's getting on now so it's only right that he would take the opportunity to move to a club where he can have a chance of winning a HC. Best of luck to him.

From a Leinster point of view I think it's a bad signing. Fantastic lock alright, but given his age I think the money could have been spent on someone younger with a view to the long term

He's 31! Nathan Hines was 32/33 when he signed for Leinster, wasn't he?

I'd say McCarthy has a lot of miles left on him

ssaye

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's 31! Nathan Hines was 32/33 when he signed for Leinster, wasn't he?

I'd say McCarthy has a lot of miles left on him

Hero is 36 now and signing on for one more season with Clermont afaik.

d-gal

dregin wrote: »

As has been mentioned already, and is actually in the first paragraph of the linked article, Connaucht matched the financial offer from Leinster. Money had nothing to do with the move.

According to a friend inside the Connacht camp, that wasn't the case. Again I don't want to cause speculation or spread rumours but at the end of it IRFU needed to look at what was best for Ireland and that was Macca staying in Connacht. If they combined an attractive offer for Macca he would have stayed. Leinster have the funds to bring in a world class lock, Connacht do not and it stifles Connachts progress and development. Connacht barely have the money to fund a full squad (Elwood said that at ther start of the season) and the IRFU should put more support in. For fcuk sake we beat bloody Biaritz with a depleted squad (13injured I think) and a 4th choice captain and get rewarded with sweet feck all

Fishooks13

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's 31! Nathan Hines was 32/33 when he signed for Leinster, wasn't he?

I'd say McCarthy has a lot of miles left on him

Hines is a bit of a freak though!

Podge_irl

There is an argument (admittedly a weak one) that this benefits Connacht by giving Leinster a better chance of winning the HEC!

Gambas

Podge_irl wrote: »

None of the players they've lost in the last couple years have actually been Connacht developed players.

That's a fair comment regarding Hagan, Cronin, Carr etc, but McCarthy has been with Connacht for the bulk of the past 10 years, and there has undeniably been a huge amount of development in that time, given where he was and what he is today. But really that's neither here nor there, and there is nothing wrong with this deal.

I think he is a better player than Leinster fans probably realise, if basing their opinions on his performances for Ireland, where he hasn't had any role in the lineout.

irishbucsfan

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Hines is a bit of a freak though!

There are loads more examples though (Shaw, Cudmore, Borthwick, Nallet, Botha etc.) of guys who are older than McCarthy and playing top level rugby. Even Leo will be 35 in January and he's only starting to slow down.

I'm not worried about McCarthy signing a 3 year deal at all. Better than signing a younger NIQ guy as far as I'm concerned.

freyners

Podge_irl wrote: »

None of the players they've lost in the last couple years have actually been Connacht developed players.

While I get where you come from, i ****ing hate statements like this. Completely disregards the work the connacht set up and coaches put in to develop the players they received to the players they were when they left.

We might not have had them in youth, but we still played a massive part in developing the likes of Cronin and McCarthy in international standard players.

GerM

Bit catty from Sears in his comments there. Nathan White and Mick Kearney are two guys that Leinster wanted but went west in the past two years and apparently Jordi Murphy will be making his way west this summer. That's ignoring the multiple players that were developed by other provincial systems that Connacht picked up. It's a pro game and, in an ideal world, all the sides would have indigenous players who spent their careers with their home province but that's not the case. Not overly delighted to see McCarthy leave Connacht but there's a lot of heart ruling head going on.

He appears to have moved purely for rugby reasons and nobody can fault him for that. He had the opportunity to move 2 years ago when Leinster originally came calling but stuck with Connacht and gave it his all, shunning a more successful side. Things haven't really improved in that time in terms of results in Connacht though. This is his last chance to really win something in his career.

Hopefully Jordi Murphy and one or two others find their way out west to supplement their squad and make the pack an overall stronger unit with more depth.

jacothelad

It would be a great opportunity for some young 2R at one of the other provinces or for Conn. to get a good IQ from the SH or a project type signing. Whoever gets the job - and I'm pretty sure it won't be Sean Holley - will have contacts. Pat Lam is a possibility.

Gambas

Teferi wrote: »

Nonsense.

Connacht matched the offer. The IRFU cannot force a player to go where he wants.

The word in Connacht is that the offers were not the same - Thornley may be stretching it to suggest that all 3-year deals are identical. Personally, I don't know, but it is unclear at this stage and we may never know. And the IRFU most certainly can make international players go where they want (let's see where Mike Ross ends up). Whether that is a good thing is another matter.