New Build advice for Engineering firm using AutoCAD

EmmetF

Hi, I was hoping someone would be able to help me out putting together a build for a new computer at my office. We do most of our work using AutoCAD and then the usual office programs. My boss is looking to get one new computer for now, but I'm hoping if I can show him value for money, he'll upgrade 4 or 5 of these computers. With that in mind, the budget is roughly €500 - €600, but if anyone's going to go for a €600 build, could you possibly justify the extra €100. Thanks in advance, here are the details.

1. What is your budget? €500 - €600

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? AutoCAD (2D drawings), and general office use.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? Yes

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? No, it's very old.

5. Do you need a monitor? No

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? It's at 1280 X 1024 but it can go to 1920 X 1440. Not upgrading in the near future.

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? No, though a card reader could be handy.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? No.

8. How can you pay? Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser/Paypal

9. When are you purchasing? Within the next month probably.

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Based in Naas, Co. Kildare but I should be ok with the build.

Thanks again.

tuxy

Maybe something like this?

Item|Price
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€42.67
BitFenix Merc Beta|€32.04
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version)|€83.40
LiteOn iHAS124-04 schwarz SATA|€18.21
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€29.39
LogiLink USB 2.0 all-in-one Card Reader, für 3,5" Einbauchschacht|€3.32
Seagate Barracuda 7200 500GB SATA 6GB's|€52.20
ASRock B75M R2.0, Sockel 1155, mATX|€59.73
Intel Core i5-3450 Box, LGA1155|€175.00
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€514.95

The graphics built into the i5 should be fine for non 2d autocad work.
The case might not be suitable if the pc will be in a dusty environment though.

tuxy

You could bring down the price even more replacing the i5 with an i3.
I think this should still be fine for 2d work but I don't know enough about autocad to say for sure.

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1155/65982/Intel+Core+i3-3220+Box%2C+LGA1155.article

EmmetF

Thanks a mil. How much extra for the likes of an SSD? I heard they make computer start-up/opening programs etc unbelieveably fast? I also think I could take the CD drive from the old computer, I forgot to mention that.

tuxy

Yeah they do make a really big difference to boot time and opening programs.
Depends how much space you need on the SSD. You would want to put the OS and programs that are used often on it.

64GB
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Solid-State-Disk/46113/Crucial+M4+64GB+SSD+6%2C4cm+%282%2C5%29.article

128GB
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Solid-State-Disk/46110/Crucial+M4+128GB+SSD+6%2C4cm+%282%2C5%29.article

unseenfootage

tuxy wrote: »

You could bring down the price even more replacing the i5 with an i3.
I think this should still be fine for 2d work but I don't know enough about autocad to say for sure.

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1155/65982/Intel+Core+i3-3220+Box%2C+LGA1155.article

Autocad could even work on a pentium 4.

I3s are better.

I5s would be the icing on the cake.

EmmetF

What about dropping to an i3 and adding a 128GB SSD? I assume we can add a graphics card down the line if needed?

If we went with this build, what would be upgradable in the future? Everything?
Also, just checking, is everything here compatible?

Item|Price
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€42.35
BitFenix Merc Beta|€32.04
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version)|€82.35
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€30.83
LogiLink USB 2.0 all-in-one Card Reader, für 3,5" Einbauchschacht|€3.32
Seagate Barracuda 7200 500GB SATA 6GB's|€52.49
ASRock B75M R2.0, Sockel 1155, mATX|€59.34
Intel Core i3-3220 Box, LGA1155|€105.78
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€94.24
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€521.73

unseenfootage

^ That would make more sense as you are trading unnecessary processing capacity for faster boot/program startup and shutdown times.


The board is upgradeable to an I7 and 16GB Ram and has enough expansion slots for your needs. For a couple of quid extra you can get a board with 32GB Ram capacity:

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/59304/ASRock+B75+Pro3-M%2C+Sockel+1155%2C+mATX.article .

unseenfootage

^^ If you don't mind maxing your budget you could replace the I3 with an I5 3570 for an extra €80.

the_syco

Have a look at http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/syscert?id=18844534&siteID=123112

Most of the cards that AutoCAD uses are not what you'd use for gaming (NVIDIA Quadro, ATI FirePro, etc). I'd fully recommend getting a graphics card, as I don't think skimping on one would be a good idea. Esp if you go the multi-monitor route.

tuxy

Well there is this

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/1024+MB/48721/PNY+QUADRO+600+1024MB+DDR3+BULK.article

But from what I've heard it's really not needed for 2d work.

unseenfootage

@ syco

You don't need a card unless you are doing Autocad 3D graphics.

If you are only doing 2D drawings then the Intel HD graphics on the I3 is more than enough.

http://usa.autodesk.com/autocad/system-requirements/

It will help if the OP clarifies what type of work his client will be doing on the machine.

EmmetF

unseenfootage wrote: »

@ syco

You don't need a card unless you are doing Autocad 3D graphics.

If you are only doing 2D drawings then the Intel HD graphics on the I3 is more than enough.

http://usa.autodesk.com/autocad/system-requirements/

It will help if the OP clarifies what type of work his client will be doing on the machine.

The work on this particular computer will be 2D AutoCAD work. Mostly traffic engineering showing line of sights on road maps. Nothing too heavy. However, one of the other computers that might use the same spec if all goes well, will be running Masterseries, which is a engineering analysis software. I'm not entirely sure what it's hardware requirements are though.

And yes, for a few euro extra, I might as well upgrade to the 32GB mobo, cheers for that.
Would an extra €150 on a graphics card be hard to justify in this case?

Also, which SSD would be better?
Samsung SSD 830 128GB SATA 6GB's Basic
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=56866&agid=1145

or

Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46110&agid=1145

Thanks for the input so far, I really appreciate it.

ScumLord

the_syco wrote: »

Most of the cards that AutoCAD uses are not what you'd use for gaming (NVIDIA Quadro, ATI FirePro, etc). I'd fully recommend getting a graphics card, as I don't think skimping on one would be a good idea. Esp if you go the multi-monitor route.

Nvidia have some of the same features in they're consumer cards too. But you seriously don't need one of those Quadros for AutoCAD. You don't even need one for the likes of inventor or solidworks, they can help but not essential considering they cost more than a grand.

unseenfootage

^ Briefly looked at masterseries.

This would probably require a graphics card for the design and drafting work and also an I5 for the analysis work (this needs computational power.)

Not sure what type of card to recommend but on the face of it, nothing very expensive. You could probably get away with something under €100.

indough

ScumLord wrote: »

Nvidia have some of the same features in they're consumer cards too. But you seriously don't need one of those Quadros for AutoCAD. You don't even need one for the likes of inventor or solidworks, they can help but not essential considering they cost more than a grand.

i think they are just very powerful cards underclocked to improve accuracy, at least according to what i have read they are used by people who's projects require greater precision. so for example someone studying cad at college could easily get by with a gtx, whereas someone designing something like a bridge that people will be driving across obviously couldn't get away with it.

although having said that i don't think they are even that prohibitively expensive unless we're talking about the cutting edge models

tuxy

ScumLord wrote: »

Nvidia have some of the same features in they're consumer cards too. But you seriously don't need one of those Quadros for AutoCAD. You don't even need one for the likes of inventor or solidworks, they can help but not essential considering they cost more than a grand.

Would the quadro i linked to do the job? It only costs 156

yomamasflavour

For 2d Autocad get an SSD, a High frequency dual core (i3) vs a slower quad core (i5), quad is a complete waste of money as it won't use it (exception of the one running the engineering software - don't know what the reqs are for that so maybe an i5 would be better for that one).

Boot time and Autocad start up time will be much better.

Don't need 8/16/32GB ram, unless you're doing something else that you haven't specified.

I'd also advise a workstation graphics card, an older low spec quadro/fire gl / fire pro is far better than a modern gaming graphics card, though I wouldn't spend a whole lot as even a low spec one will do everything you want and more (assuming you only ever do 2d).

There's a couple on adverts.ie for €20-50, definitely don't need to spend €150 on one.

EmmetF

Ok thanks for all the input.

I've decided I'll go with the i3 and throw in a low end graphics card (I'll get one from adverts)
I'm also gonna use the savings from i5 -> i3 on a 128GB SSD.

Here's the build I'm going with;

Item|Price
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€42.35
BitFenix Merc Beta|€32.04
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version)|€82.35
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9|€30.83
LogiLink USB 2.0 all-in-one Card Reader, für 3,5" Einbauchschacht|€3.32
Seagate Barracuda 7200 500GB SATA 6GB's|€52.49
Intel Core i3-3220 Box, LGA1155|€105.78
ASRock B75 Pro3-M, Sockel 1155, mATX|€60.56
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€94.24
Shipping|€18.99
nVidia Quadro FX3450/FX 3450 256MB PCIe|€50.00 (Probably cheaper)
Total|€572.95

Does this look ok? This will be my first build so hopefully it'll all go smoothly.
Also just a question on the ASRock, it says "Max Allocated RAM Size = 1760 MB", what does that mean?

marco_polo

EmmetF wrote: »

..
Does this look ok? This will be my first build so hopefully it'll all go smoothly.
Also just a question on the ASRock, it says "Max Allocated RAM Size = 1760 MB", what does that mean?

The HD 4000 on die GPU shares memory with the CPU, that is the maximum amount of RAM that can be allocated to the GPU.

However is not important because you will be using a dedicated card instead.

EmmetF

Ah I see, thanks for clearing that up.

yomamasflavour

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ATI-FirePro-V3750-256-MB-Brand-new-K730M-/190733562861?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item2c689b33ed

This one's a bit better and cheaper.

Nothing against Nvidia, but I wouldn't be looking at anything from them in and around 2008-09.
Those batch's of chips all fail eventually.