BMW 520d timing chain rattle

xabi

I have been reading about this lately and it seems fairly common, i have recently acquired a 2008 520d and im not a bit paranoid about the chain. I took 2 videos of the sound, first one with bonnet up and second bonnet closed. Does it sound OK, just normal diesel rattle? The car is driving 100%.


http://youtu.be/Z7h9g0X_Mtg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35m0zFYsRu0&feature=plcp

burke027

Your best time to check the engine for a timing chain rattle is in the morning the second it fires up u will hear the chain rattle if its stretched. Just to let you no we have seen Afair few in our place getting done in the past while. It's not a bad job for a Indy that knows them well.
BMW are wiping there hands and claiming not to know anything about it.

dharn

hard to judge by a mobile phone recording but it sounds ok to me

biko

Get in touch with a bmw indy, they won't charge you to just listen to the car.

xabi

biko wrote: »

Get in touch with a bmw indy, they won't charge you to just listen to the car.

Any recommendations for an Indy in cork?

Paddy@CIRL

Hard to tell but I think it sounds fine from here. If the chain is stretched, you would really be in no doubt when you hear it.

chrislentzy

Last week the timing chain broke on my 2008 318d (155,000 km). Initally I was told that I needed a new engine due to the damaged caused, so you can imagine my horror.
After research I found out that all BWMs with the N47 engine have this problem. These engines were used in the 3 and 5 series between Feb 2007 and May 2010. BMW accept that there is a flaw in the drive sprocket which drives the chain.
In Germany you will get "good will" compensation for this. However in Ireland you have to seek compensation from your local BMW dealer (who get it from Germany) who needs to send a report to BMW HQ. Kearys of Cork wanted me to pay €1700 to get the engine inspected and have a report written. The repair of the engine was then estimated at €7000-€8000.
I am getting the engine repaired at Ardfallen Motors, Cork for approx €1500.
I will never again buy another BMW nor could I recommend them to anyone.
If Toyota notice a problem with their cars, they are recalled and rectified. BMW do not recall their cars but give compensation on a case by case basis. The problem is the local dealers here in Ireland.

serious3

chrislentzy wrote: »

Last week the timing chain broke on my 2008 318d (155,000 km). Initally I was told that I needed a new engine due to the damaged caused, so you can imagine my horror.
After research I found out that all BWMs with the N47 engine have this problem. These engines were used in the 3 and 5 series between Feb 2007 and May 2010. BMW accept that there is a flaw in the drive sprocket which drives the chain.
In Germany you will get "good will" compensation for this. However in Ireland you have to seek compensation from your local BMW dealer (who get it from Germany) who needs to send a report to BMW HQ. Kearys of Cork wanted me to pay €1700 to get the engine inspected and have a report written. The repair of the engine was then estimated at €7000-€8000.
I am getting the engine repaired at Ardfallen Motors, Cork for approx €1500.
I will never again buy another BMW nor could I recommend them to anyone.
If Toyota notice a problem with their cars, they are recalled and rectified. BMW do not recall their cars but give compensation on a case by case basis. The problem is the local dealers here in Ireland.

so let me get this right, a 5yr old BMW suffers an engine failure some 3yrs out of warranty and you expect a main dealer to remove, strip, inspect and write a report that they have to stand over, for nothing? as you said these problems are well documented all over the internet yet you still bought one? hmmmm

Bigus

serious3 wrote: »

so let me get this right, a 5yr old BMW suffers an engine failure some 3yrs out of warranty and you expect a main dealer to remove, strip, inspect and write a report that they have to stand over, for nothing? as you said these problems are well documented all over the internet yet you still bought one? hmmmm

Yes when it's a design fault known to the manufacturer.

serious3

Bigus wrote: »

Yes when it's a design fault known to the manufacturer.

which BMW are not officialy acknowledging? good luck with that then!!

chrislentzy

Hi serious3,
naturally this problem was not know back in 2008 when I bought the car but it is well know now. Yes, I agree my car is 3 years out of guarantee. However because my engine failed due to a known design flaw, compensation is given for this but not by Irish garages it seems.
I am told by BMW Germany that the inspection requires removing an inject and using an endoscope to inspect the engine interior. Why should this cost €1700?
If everyone knew that BMWs with the N47 engine only last 5 years, who would ever buy one? Or who would buy one again?
Not I, serious3.

chrislentzy

Yes, its a design fault known to the manufacturer.
As I mentioned Toyota recall their cars when a design fault is spotted. BMW do not. A simple letter stating to replace the drive sprocket at say 120,000 km would have done the trick.

kuro2k

xabi wrote: »

Any recommendations for an Indy in cork?

I've found Murphy Motor Works (MMW) great

Monaghan Road (near ShowGrounds/Pairc Ui Chaoimh)

chrislentzy

Hi Burke,
just to clarify, BMW know about the timing chain/drive sprocket problem. To my suprise the UK BMW forums are now full of this.
The problem is that our dealers are ignoring the problem.

mickdw

chrislentzy wrote: »

Yes, its a design fault known to the manufacturer.
As I mentioned Toyota recall their cars when a design fault is spotted. BMW do not. A simple letter stating to replace the drive sprocket at say 120,000 km would have done the trick.

The problem with that is that the sprocket is formed in one piece with the shaft and this is all an engine out job. Owners wouldn't be happy with a scheduled engine out out service every 120k km. in fact they wouldnt sell a single fleet car if this was in the service schedule. Poor design from start to finish.

navara man

do 320 diesel 2009 have time chain problem ?

chrislentzy

Hi mick,
you got it in one.
Realistically BMW should have had an engine recall where the drive shaft was replaced with a better designed sprocket.
I spent €49,000 on my BMW which lasted 4 years and 10 months driving an average of 30,000 km a year.
I'll never buy another BMW. Again it is the Irish BMW dealers who are making this worse because they are burrowing their heads in the sand and we are letting them get away with it.

galwaytt

mickdw wrote: »

The problem with that is that the sprocket is formed in one piece with the shaft and this is all an engine out job. Owners wouldn't be happy with a scheduled engine out out service every 120k km. in fact they wouldnt sell a single fleet car if this was in the service schedule. Poor design from start to finish.

....seems to be the norm these days. Software etc, all cutting edge stuff, I expect glitches from (heck, I have a TT with colouredy-light-dashpod ), but something fundamental as a chain - around since the year dot - there's no excuse for that imho. Just cheap production taking precedence.

chrislentzy wrote: »

Hi mick,
you got it in one.
Realistically BMW should have had an engine recall where the drive shaft was replaced with a better designed sprocket.
I spent €49,000 on my BMW which lasted 4 years and 10 months driving an average of 30,000 km a year.
I'll never buy another BMW. Again it is the Irish BMW dealers who are making this worse because they are burrowing their heads in the sand and we are letting them get away with it.

....sorry for your troubles, you are dead right. But, even if they DIDN'T get the sprocket right, why isn't it a separate part ? I can't see how it's cheaper to make a crank with it in one piece, as distinct from having a separate sprocket (replaceable). I mean Woodruff keys have been with us since time immemorial.........it's not as if they have to invent the bloody thing.

chrislentzy

Hi Navara Man,
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

bazz26

navara man wrote: »

do 320 diesel 2009 have time chain problem ?

It's the same engine.

George Dalton

chrislentzy wrote: »

If Toyota notice a problem with their cars, they are recalled and rectified. BMW do not recall their cars but give compensation on a case by case basis. The problem is the local dealers here in Ireland.

Toyota are doing exactly the same as BMW when it comes to the serious engine trouble that the 2.2 diesels are giving. They are dealing with each one on a case by case basis and keeping it as quiet as possible. Exactly the same as what they did with the oil burning epidemic with the vvti engines 10 years ago. They only recall the cars to replace cheap stuff like electric window switches. Toyota are a very clever company

Idbatterim

Hi mick,
you got it in one.
Realistically BMW should have had an engine recall where the drive shaft was replaced with a better designed sprocket.
I spent €49,000 on my BMW which lasted 4 years and 10 months driving an average of 30,000 km a year.
I'll never buy another BMW. Again it is the Irish BMW dealers who are making this worse because they are burrowing their heads in the sand and we are letting them get away with it.

which bmw did you have?

Blazer

Idbatterim wrote: »

which bmw did you have?

prob a 520D m sport.
the N47 was used across 1 series, 3 series and 5 series (mainly 520D).

livingthedream

Hi mate,

Sorry to hear of your woes.....

I think the response all manufacturers tend to have is the same i.e. a tight balance between public relations and cost control...

Over the years BMW have had a number of issues that I agree could have been handled better (Nikasil blocks, diesel engine swirl flaps, security issues...) but so have other brands, my wifes mk4 golf had a gearbox fail due to a dodgy bearing (iirc) with less than 30000 miles on the clock!

I'm a BMW owner and member of a couple of forums based in the UK and I do agree that it would appear as though the folks in the UK tend to get better service from their dealer network though still not ideal.

I guess I'm not prone to the issues you have experienced as I tend to buy my cars second hand maybe 6-7 years old by which time I would know what to look out for with any given model but again only because I make it my business to be aware of these things...

My biggest gripe is that if I need to buy a genuine BMW part it is typically 30% cheaper for me to buy it from a dealer in the UK and have it shipped to my house than it is to pop into my local main $tealer!!!

robbie99

chrislentzy wrote: »

Hi mick,
you got it in one.
Realistically BMW should have had an engine recall where the drive shaft was replaced with a better designed sprocket.
I spent €49,000 on my BMW which lasted 4 years and 10 months driving an average of 30,000 km a year.
I'll never buy another BMW. Again it is the Irish BMW dealers who are making this worse because they are burrowing their heads in the sand and we are letting them get away with it.

Sorry to hear about your problems Chris. Out of interest, did you notice any rattle in your engine before it went and was it it being serviced by BMW?

GavMan

Would you not have gotten the 1700 euro back and the engine repaired by BMW had you gone along with the dealers request?

ma88

How much can cost to replace a 08 520d bmw timing chain?
If i understand correct can be there more engine problem then chain when it makes noise,at the moment 150000 miles on it.

Idbatterim

It is quite labour intensive, so it depends on who you get to do it! Id try Valdas motorconfidence, Id say quotes for this work will vary substantially!

pred racer

ma88 wrote: »

How much can cost to replace a 08 520d bmw timing chain?
If i understand correct can be there more engine problem then chain when it makes noise,at the moment 150000 miles on it.

Talk to Mark allen in Straffan (bmw indy) he is doing loads of these, its a fixed price if its rattling, and he has a fixed price if its gone.

Its not cheap, but a hell of a lot cheaper than Bmw.

Pm if you want his number.

ma88

pred racer wrote: »

Talk to Mark allen in Straffan (bmw indy) he is doing loads of these, its a fixed price if its rattling, and he has a fixed price if its gone.

Its not cheap, but a hell of a lot cheaper than Bmw.

Pm if you want his number.

Thanks,i found his number on google,i just was wondering if it is resonable to buy one of this,as found one with uk plates for €4000,and was looking to know how much can cost this labour.

pred racer

ma88 wrote: »

Thanks,i found his number on google,i just was wondering if it is resonable to buy one of this,as found one with uk plates for €4000,and was looking to know how much can cost this labour.

If I remember correctly its about 2k to change and 3 if its already busted, thats parts and labour.
Now dont quote me on that but its not far off the mark.

Casa 2013

Hi everyone,

I just had my 2008 1 series 118dSE serviced and my mechanic said my timing chain is about to go. Has anyone in Ireland had any dealings with BMW on this matter? I'm so upset. My car is very well minded, has a full service history with my local mechanic, only BMW approved parts are ever used and now this happens. He explained that this is nothing to do with servicing or usage of the car…… its a manufacturing fault with the engine. That its such a big job to replace because he would have to take out the engine. It's something that is meant to last the lifetime of the car.

How are people dealing with this? This problem is a manufacturing fault……not the fault of the customer. I don't understand how BMW could expect us to pay for this. Has anyone had dealings with BMW Ireland? How are ye getting on?

I WILL NEVER EVER BUY A BMW AGAIN!

and Im so sorry to say that because I love my 1 series but BMW are hard to deal with if something goes wrong.

dharn

Very unfortunate, I suppose you can contact bmw ireland and explain your case tell them you know its a very common problem , and see how you get on as its not a main dealer history your case is weaker but ask first

Idbatterim

I would get a second opinion for sure, this is fairly serious money to get rectified... Where are you based?

Stallingrad

Get onto BMW Ireland and push hard for goodwill as this is a known fault. As mentioned though you may have a battle if no FBMWSH. If you do have to pay yourself, the cost is not as bad as it once was as some independents are very familiar with the job now.

And most will agree with you, BMW should be ashamed of how they have dealt with this.

What have you been quoted by the way?

Moneymaker

I'm staggered at how popular the x16d/x18d/x20d BMWs are in this country given how common that issue is. You literally see one on every corner.

bazz26

That's because alot of people still don't know about it or don't do proper research these days before buying.

These models are also very popular in the UK too btw`

burke027

@casa I work of a bmw specialist and I must say between the 1 3 and 5 series we must done one of these every two weeks. We went through 3 not so long ago one after the other.

You are correct the engine does have to come out but for anyone that knows the way around them it's relatively simple if I'm honest. You would have it out in half a day.
All in all your looking at a 3 day turn around for the job.
You can try bmw but I know for a fact that we have even got onto people in bmw that we know and have had no joy at all.i will tell you this tho the job has come down a lot in price lately.

I wouldn't be worried about thinking your car us wrecked or that you haven't minded it once this is done it will be like new again.

I went with a couple that bought a 3 and a 5 series with that engine to be precise and they got the cars a bit cheaper knowing the chain would need doing. Did both chains on both cars with no hassle and the cars are flying around now like new.
If u want any further advice just ask.where u located by the way

dharn

@burke027, does the replacement chain have an improved design or is it likely to go again within the next year, or 50k , or whatever is the problem not with the sproket on the flywheel

Spipov

burke027 wrote: »

@casa I work of a bmw specialist and I must say between the 1 3 and 5 series we must done one of these every two weeks. We went through 3 not so long ago one after the other.

You are correct the engine does have to come out but for anyone that knows the way around them it's relatively simple if I'm honest. You would have it out in half a day.
All in all your looking at a 3 day turn around for the job.
You can try bmw but I know for a fact that we have even got onto people in bmw that we know and have had no joy at all.i will tell you this tho the job has come down a lot in price lately.

I wouldn't be worried about thinking your car us wrecked or that you haven't minded it once this is done it will be like new again.

I went with a couple that bought a 3 and a 5 series with that engine to be precise and they got the cars a bit cheaper knowing the chain would need doing. Did both chains on both cars with no hassle and the cars are flying around now like new.
If u want any further advice just ask.where u located by the way

how much is it costing to get these done nowadays?

burke027

dharn wrote: »

@burke027, does the replacement chain have an improved design or is it likely to go again within the next year, or 50k , or whatever is the problem not with the sproket on the flywheel

New chain is slightly bigger now I mean slight very slight.
In my eyes tho its not the chain that is the problem I think it's down to the cam gear but that's just my own personal idea. Well
The same could be said for the Mercedes 2 petrol engine we replace chains on them every 80k or so and there replaced with like for like. So in another 2 to 3 years yep she will be getting one again.
In answering what the cost of the job is. Well I'm only the mechanic I'm not the owner so unfortunately I can't comment on what we charge for the job all I kniw is what I do it for in my home place but that's just as a nixer so the cost is different.

BigWill

burke027 wrote: »

New chain is slightly bigger now I mean slight very slight.
In my eyes tho its not the chain that is the problem I think it's down to the cam gear but that's just my own personal idea. Well
The same could be said for the Mercedes 2 petrol engine we replace chains on them every 80k or so and there replaced with like for like. So in another 2 to 3 years yep she will be getting one again.
In answering what the cost of the job is. Well I'm only the mechanic I'm not the owner so unfortunately I can't comment on what we charge for the job all I kniw is what I do it for in my home place but that's just as a nixer so the cost is different.

So, how much roughly would it cost as a nixer to have a 520d noisy timing chain replaced at your place?

Xuro

Sorry to bring up this old post, but this might interesting for anyone with similar issues.
I have a 2009 520d and i stumbled on this and was majorly surprised that there is now a recall (15th January 2015) by BMW to replace the chain tensioner and, if required, the timing chain. Now the big question is will any BMW dealer in Ireland follow this recall, looking at the time and cost of this repair my guess is nope.


I'm not allowed to post an URL but there is an official BMW recall document on google drive, 10011540300.pdf.

Gumbo

Xuro wrote: »

Sorry to bring up this old post, but this might interesting for anyone with similar issues.
I have a 2009 520d and i stumbled on this and was majorly surprised that there is now a recall (15th January 2015) by BMW to replace the chain tensioner and, if required, the timing chain. Now the big question is will any BMW dealer in Ireland follow this recall, looking at the time and cost of this repair my guess is nope.


I'm not allowed to post an URL but there is an official BMW recall document on google drive, 10011540300.pdf.

Little bit late to the party there
This is known a month or two now, in fact it has its own specific thread

Xuro

kceire wrote: »

Little bit late to the party there
This is known a month or two now, in fact it has its own specific thread

My apologies, I must be doing something wrong as I am unable to find the specific thread. Any chance you could help me out with a link? Thanks in advance.

Gumbo

Xuro wrote: »

My apologies, I must be doing something wrong as I am unable to find the specific thread. Any chance you could help me out with a link? Thanks in advance.

No problem.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057379986

I think I was one of the first people in the country to get this done under goodwill

There are similar threads on the 2 BMW Ireland forums BMW Driver and Bmw-Haus.

Xuro

kceire wrote: »

No problem.

URL

I think I was one of the first people in the country to get this done under goodwill

There are similar threads on the 2 BMW Ireland forums BMW Driver and Bmw-Haus.

Hi, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear but this is not the goodwill they used to do on this timing chain issue, it's an actual Recall from January 2015.

Elessar

I didn't realise there was a recall. I have a 2009 E90 318D, no trouble so far (touch wood) but still under extended warranty. Not sure if I should get it checked out?

Gumbo

Xuro wrote: »

Hi, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear but this is not the goodwill they used to do on this timing chain issue, it's an actual Recall from January 2015.

Goodwill and recall = same thing.
BMW have not actually issued a recall yet. It's simply a Quality Assurance program.

It's the same thing that you are talking about.

Gumbo

Elessar wrote: »

I didn't realise there was a recall. I have a 2009 E90 318D, no trouble so far (touch wood) but still under extended warranty. Not sure if I should get it checked out?

Get it checked now rather than later. If it's stretched, they will replace.

Xuro

kceire wrote: »

Goodwill and recall = same thing.
BMW have not actually issued a recall yet. It's simply a Quality Assurance program.

It's the same thing that you are talking about.

Hi Kceire, please do your research it is absolutely not the same thing. Goodwill under certain conditions, car has to have a good BMW service history and is only partly reimbursed by BMW. Recall all affected VIN engines for free.